What happens if you lie on a med school application about previously attending

[runawayclock]

How "thorough" is a thorough investigation that it lasts 2-3 YEARS? That would mean that a med school applicant has to go through more investigation than a potential CIA agent. Are you guys digging up high school files and interviewing old neighbors? I'm just curious, because I thought the most fact checking an adcom would do would be calling up the references or contact persons for the ECs. o____o

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[ShyRem]

well, you see, the CIA has people that do investigation 24/7. Medical schools are a little busy actually doing something silly like educating future doctors. So their investigation can take a little while longer. And no, they can't afford (or don't want to afford) to pay a PI to investigate every single student.

Njb has been well known to many of us who have been here quite a while. Or perhaps those of you who choose to believe some members are not what they appear are only here pretending to be a pre-med and are instead enjoying immensely spreading fear and distrust? hmmmmm??? Perhaps it is YOU who are the pretender!

 

[loveoforganic]

How was that "verified?" Is there a thread which posts a copy of his/her medical license and/or his/her contract at the hospital where s/he is an attending? Just curious.

We've all heard stories on the news about people who actually practice medicine without a medical degree/license - sometimes for a number of years - before they get caught. Usually people who did attend med school, but either dropped or flunked out.

Not saying njbmd is not an attending. But armed with a little knowledge about the subject matter, anyone can be anything they want to be on an anonymous internet forum.

Just peer review. There are quite a few people here claiming to be attendings/residents/med students. While it's possible they're all masquerading, that's not very likely. Legitimate ones holding conversations at the level of their expertise will eventually sift through at least the bulk of the imposters (imo). Beyond that, Lee's (SDN creator) identity is more externally verifiable, and njb being a senior mod makes it pretty unlikely her (I think) being an attending isn't true.

I mean, anything is possible, but I think it's possible to get a pretty accurate feel based on those things.

 

[DENTAL 2008]

I wonder, if it is lie or unethical, or what?? if one puts everything down in his/her application about previous schools/dismissals and also give out transcripts, but does not mention it in his/her personal statement or resume. however, on the interview day he/she tells the panel about it (while the panel actually does not know about it? what kind of impact it can have on his/her chances of getting accepted?? please put some light on it...

 

[ShyRem]

If it's in your application then you have disclosed it. All that needs to be done is have the information in the application. You do not have to expound on it, beat it to death, or resurrect it in your PS (although many folks do give a small short explanation somewhere in their application regarding such circumstances).

If you manage to get an interview after having disclosed ALL grades, schools, and/or dismissals in your application, you are under no further obligation to beat the dead horse and bring it up to the panel (which as you have indicated may not have knowledge of the previous dismissal if it is a closed file interview).

As for what impact bringing the information up yourself in an interview rather than waiting to be asked about it, that depends on how you handle it.

The bottom line is if you have disclosed all schools, dismissals, and grades in your application and are hiding nothing, you are under no further obligation to continue to bring up the information to every single person you come across at the school.

 

[Jay Leno]

well, you see, the CIA has people that do investigation 24/7. Medical schools are a little busy actually doing something silly like educating future doctors. So their investigation can take a little while longer. And no, they can't afford (or don't want to afford) to pay a PI to investigate every single student.

Njb has been well known to many of us who have been here quite a while. Or perhaps those of you who choose to believe some members are not what they appear are only here pretending to be a pre-med and are instead enjoying immensely spreading fear and distrust? hmmmmm??? Perhaps it is YOU who are the pretender!

I think they do hire an outside company (Certiphi) to do the background checks. And sometimes they can be pretty thorough. But that's only after you've been accepted to medical school/ about to start residency. So if an unethical person is lying on his/her application, it's pretty much moot unless that person is actually accepted.

In any case, don't lie. It's better to disclose it and not get accepted than to get accepted and find out that you can't be licensed or practice as a physician because you have a criminal record.

 

[Jay Leno]

How was that "verified?" Is there a thread which posts a copy of his/her medical license and/or his/her contract at the hospital where s/he is an attending? Just curious.

We've all heard stories on the news about people who actually practice medicine without a medical degree/license - sometimes for a number of years - before they get caught. Usually people who did attend med school, but either dropped or flunked out.

Not saying njbmd is not an attending. But armed with a little knowledge about the subject matter, anyone can be anything they want to be on an anonymous internet forum.

I remember reading Njbmd blog and seeing a picture of her somewhere along with her profile. Again, anything's possible but her blog is way too detailed and thorough to be someone who's just posing. And as the other posters have pointed out, shes a senior Mod and SDN would probably do a thorough check and confirm by email before they make her a lifetime member.

 

[Reaction]

Bad idea.

I am familiar with a situation where a student was dismissed 4th year because one of the lies that he told on his application came to light. Do you really want to spend your entire med school career paranoid that you'll be found out and dismissed? Besides, your AMCAS ID is consistent through the application cycles. If they pull up your AMCAS ID, it will be reflected that you matriculated (if it's a US school in which you previously matriculated).

Yeah I also don't think it is worth the risk. If it ever comes out and the med school finds out, you could get screwed over=/

 

[tkim]

Before you guys let this self declared "Attending" rattle your osteocytes, please get your head out of your rectum and think. Why would an attending physician hang out on SDN?

Quite a few of us that started as premeds, med students, and resdients, and return to give back what we got out of the site.

 

[Reaction]

Quite a few of us that started as premeds, med students, and resdients, and return to give back what we got out of the site.

Yeah I mean this site is 10+ years old so it shouldn't be surprising to see people who attending etc. here=]

 

[QofQuimica]

Just as a point of clarification, SDN does *not* run any type of background check on the mods. No one has ever required me to verify that I'm a med student, that I have a PhD, that I'm a student adcom, or even what my real name is. You are basically going on my word when I tell you that all of these things are true. Also, you can become a lifetime member of SDN simply by donating money. It costs $250. What it comes down to is that all information you find on SDN should be read critically, no matter how long someone has been a member of this site or what their training status says. There are no private detectives working for SDN who have checked up on me....that I know of.

Getting back to the OP's question, falsifying your app in any way is a bad plan, and it's not even necessary. Adcoms don't expect applicants to be perfect. That being said, having a situation like this with a prior matriculation is definitely something you'd want to explain on your app. There's a big difference between applying to re-matriculate because you had a health problem versus applying to re-matriculate because you were convicted of being a serial killer!

 

[loveoforganic]

Thanks for the info. Was basing that off at least one past investigation I know of where someone was misrepresenting attending status to give advice.

 

[FrkyBgStok]

i am curious about how much warrants dismissal. are we talking lying about an acceptance, or do the schools go as far as calling every single volunteer organization and verifying the number of hours worked and is there a discrepancy. i am not asking to see what i can get away with, but this just seems incredibly inefficient to check every single person like this. and if something is found that is maybe an exageration of fact, does that warrant dismissal, or are hand slaps done?

 

[ShyRem]

I think that depends on the egregiousness of the offense.

But for any of you thinking of "embellishing", would you want a physician that lied on their application to get into med school? What else will they lie about? doing a procedure? a pertinent and important physical finding? actually seeing the patient when they really didn't?

this is medicine. Lies can kill people. Do we REALLY want to admit folks who can't even be honest about who they are on a piece of paper applying to medical school? Start as a liar, why should we believe they'll ever be done lying? Start off on the right foot. Be honest.

 

[Jay Leno]

Just as a point of clarification, SDN does *not* run any type of background check on the mods. No one has ever required me to verify that I'm a med student, that I have a PhD, that I'm a student adcom, or even what my real name is. You are basically going on my word when I tell you that all of these things are true. Also, you can become a lifetime member of SDN simply by donating money. It costs $250. What it comes down to is that all information you find on SDN should be read critically, no matter how long someone has been a member of this site or what their training status says. There are no private detectives working for SDN who have checked up on me....that I know of.

Getting back to the OP's question, falsifying your app in any way is a bad plan, and it's not even necessary. Adcoms don't expect applicants to be perfect. That being said, having a situation like this with a prior matriculation is definitely something you'd want to explain on your app. There's a big difference between applying to re-matriculate because you had a health problem versus applying to re-matriculate because you were convicted of being a serial killer!

Well that doesn't bode well since there are so many posters on here claiming to be attendings, residents, and medical students. Isn't there any way you can create a "verified" status for some of these posters. I mean it won't take much resources. Just ask them (confidentially) for their academic or hospital e-mail and send them a message to confirm that they are xxxx poster on SDN. I'm sure the other posters and readers would appreciate the verification.

 

[Buzz Me]

Thanks for the info. Was basing that off at least one past investigation I know of where someone was misrepresenting attending status to give advice.

One with as long and as solid of a track record as njbmd's?

All you have to do is look through a user's posting history to get a sense of their background.

While we do not conduct "background checks," per se, many of the upper-level mods here meet occasionally for SDN meetings and communicate frequently outside of the public posts you see in these forums.

To those calling her a fraud or "fake" attending, I would probably pick your battles a little more wisely.

 

[Gastrapathy]

One with as long and as solid of a track record as njbmd's?

All you have to do is look through a user's posting history to get a sense of their background.

While we do not conduct "background checks," per se, many of the upper-level mods here meet occasionally for SDN meetings and communicate frequently outside of the public posts you see in these forums.

To those calling her a fraud or "fake" attending, I would probably pick your battles a little more wisely.

As I said a year ago, she claimed that applicants who lie are subject to criminal prosecution. I didn't believe that then and I don't believe it now. Same challenge as before: cite a single case in the public record. No answer before and there won't be one this time either. Cite some evidence and I'll apologize.

I'm not calling her a fraud or fake but I don't think that statement was truthy. Keep fear alive.

 

[fahimaz7]

AAMC has a record of you attending a US medical school. Good luck getting past that.

Either way, why is a pre-health guy worried about this? Trolling?

 

[oddjobmd]

what if you voluntarily leave a LCME school for personal reasons, such as leaving to take care of a sick relative?

I applied in the 2010 cycle and got accepted very late to a school, in July. Since I had no clue that school "X" was going to accept me during the summer, I submitted a 2011 application on June 1st, and in it I marked that I had not matriculated or enrolled elsewhere., since I wasn't even accepted at that point.

I enrolled at my current school but then my mother, who I am the primary caretaker of, became extremely ill. She has a PCP in our home state whom I prefer that she stays with. I'm temporally too far off from a transfer possibility, so I decided to continue my 2011 application cycle and I'm starting to get some interviews. The catch is I haven't mentioned to everyone that I was enrolled and am leaving/have left... To the schools I talked to about the situation, half took my application, half didn't. There are a handful that don't know the situation, which are unfortunately where I am getting interviews to...

Anyone have any ideas for how I should go about telling the schools that want to interview me the situation?

 

[oddjobmd]

and I'm not trolling, this just happens to be my first time posting here.

 

[normtheniner]

what if you voluntarily leave a LCME school for personal reasons, such as leaving to take care of a sick relative?

I applied in the 2010 cycle and got accepted very late to a school, in July. Since I had no clue that school "X" was going to accept me during the summer, I submitted a 2011 application on June 1st, and in it I marked that I had not matriculated or enrolled elsewhere., since I wasn't even accepted at that point.

I enrolled at my current school but then my mother, who I am the primary caretaker of, became extremely ill. She has a PCP in our home state whom I prefer that she stays with. I'm temporally too far off from a transfer possibility, so I decided to continue my 2011 application cycle and I'm starting to get some interviews. The catch is I haven't mentioned to everyone that I was enrolled and am leaving/have left... To the schools I talked to about the situation, half took my application, half didn't. There are a handful that don't know the situation, which are unfortunately where I am getting interviews to...

Anyone have any ideas for how I should go about telling the schools that want to interview me the situation?

I think its very important that you inform the schools before you interview there. If they wouldn't have given you consideration had they known the circumstances prior to the invite, then chances are they won't at this point either. I'd call Monday morning and speak with the admissions representative. Explain the situation just like you did on here and see what happens... may they'll be more receptive than you think.

Best of luck... and hope your mom's health gets better!

 

[oddjobmd]

Thanks for your thoughts normtheniner (if you're a 49ers fan, they totally have tampa bay today.)

My thoughts are that I should go to the interview and explain the situation face-to-face. A rep at AMCAS told me that "school Y" (SOM that offered me the interview if you're keeping score) should have been informed by AAMC that I am enrolled elsewhere.

Obviously I'm not going to make decisions based on hearsay but that makes me wonder what "school Y" (and "Z"+ if I get any more interviews) actually knows. And if "Mr.AMCAS-rep" is telling the truth about an enrollment status check that occurs, I am technically am not at fault. Doesn't necessarily give me a pass, just makes the situation a lot more complex.

thanks and we are hopeful for my mom.