what happens if you oversleep?

[care bear]

hi everyone. . .what happens if you oversleep on the wards??
i'm a second year with a big oversleeping problem.
recently, i overslept for a test.

i had to meet with the dean about this and she made me very concerned about my prospects next year.

how can i keep from oversleeping? will they kick me out if i do?

should i try taking a stimulant before bed to make my sleep lighter? (red bull, coffee, etc) i am a VERY heavy sleeper. i used to wet the bed well into childhood (i know, embarrasing!!) because i couldn't wake up.
i was late for high school almost every day because my mom could not wake me up in time at that age.
i overslept through countless exams in college, and i have come into many others in medschool with only half the time remaining.
now, i have actually missed a whole test with not a real prospect to make it up.

am i going to be able to hear my beeper? get to rounds? etc?
what to do, what to do?

advice??

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[dynx]

hi everyone. . .what happens if you oversleep on the wards??

instant death

i'm a second year with a big oversleeping problem.
recently, i overslept for a test.

i had to meet with the dean about this and she made me very concerned about my prospects next year.

how can i keep from oversleeping? will they kick me out if i do?

They give you a crappy eval. The wards don't stop working if you dont show up...in fact they run faster.

should i try taking a stimulant before bed to make my sleep lighter? (red bull, coffee, etc)

Brilliant! Your logic is air-tight. Can't see any problems here...how are those preclinical grades?

i am a VERY heavy sleeper. i used to wet the bed well into childhood (i know, embarrasing!!) because i couldn't wake up.
i was late for high school almost every day because my mom could not wake me up in time at that age.
i overslept through countless exams in college, and i have come into many others in medschool with only half the time remaining.
now, i have actually missed a whole test with not a real prospect to make it up.

get rubber sheets and multiple loud alarms.

am i going to be able to hear my beeper? get to rounds? etc?
what to do, what to do?

advice??

Go to bed early so that you naturally wake up earlier. Set loud alarms bring them to the call room if you need to, this is not rocket science.

 

[Krony]

I hope this doesn't damage your hearing.

http://www.hammacher.com/publish/72516.asp

 

[DarksideAllstar]

I slept through surgery rounds on a Sunday morning in a situation when I was the only one rounding with the Chief resident. In this instance I had forgotten to set my alarm clock the night before and woke up at like 15 after 8 (supposed to be there at 8), and called him in a panic. He said it was cool, but at first I didnt believe him. The next two weeks were chill and he even would pimp me about stuff that was going to be on our oral exam, which helped tremendously. Ended up honoring the rotation. Now, if I did it everyday, things would be have turned out a lot worse. I never forgot to set my alarm clock or slept through rounds again (and that includes 5am OB/GYN rounds). Bottom line, maybe once a rotation you might get away with it.

 

[eklope2000]

I hope this doesn't damage your hearing.

http://www.hammacher.com/publish/72516.asp

Hahaha

 

[fantasty]

Hahaha

I overslept for work rounds once. I felt like hell. The resident was cool about it at the time, but also was the one who gave me the lowest eval on the rotation. (Although, he was probably basing that on other factors rather than this one instance).

My sister-in-law is deaf and has this alarm clock. One time, I was house-sitting for them and they said I could use their bedroom. Little did I know that this alarm was pre-set. (In fact, it was set at 4:30 am). That thing scared the crap out of me. It feels like a bomb is going off - I leapt outta bed and couldn't figure out how to turn it off in my confused state.

 

[stoic]

you could try setting like 4 alarm clocks. one in each corner of your room. i've got a friend who is a super heavy sleeper, and this is just about the only way he's found to get out of bed. just make sure to turn them up really loud.

 

[KidDr]

you could try setting like 4 alarm clocks. one in each corner of your room. i've got a friend who is a super heavy sleeper, and this is just about the only way he's found to get out of bed. just make sure to turn them up really loud.

I agree with setting multiple alarms, I usually set at least 2 at home, and 3 when I'm at the hospital (palm, pager, and alarm clock). So far it's worked. But you also might want to look into whether you have a problem with sleep phase abnormalities or hypersomnia, because these are potentially treatable by a sleep doctor, which could make life easier for you on the wards and during residency.

 

[Lorae]

I second that!!
Get a referral for a polysomnogram (sleep study)!!

Lor

 

[MSc44]

hi everyone. . .what happens if you oversleep on the wards??
i'm a second year with a big oversleeping problem.
recently, i overslept for a test.

i had to meet with the dean about this and she made me very concerned about my prospects next year.

how can i keep from oversleeping? will they kick me out if i do?

should i try taking a stimulant before bed to make my sleep lighter? (red bull, coffee, etc) i am a VERY heavy sleeper. i used to wet the bed well into childhood (i know, embarrasing!!) because i couldn't wake up.
i was late for high school almost every day because my mom could not wake me up in time at that age.
i overslept through countless exams in college, and i have come into many others in medschool with only half the time remaining.
now, i have actually missed a whole test with not a real prospect to make it up.

am i going to be able to hear my beeper? get to rounds? etc?
what to do, what to do?

advice??

u feel like **** the whole day

 

[Megalofyia]

My sister-in-law is deaf and has this alarm clock. One time, I was house-sitting for them and they said I could use their bedroom. Little did I know that this alarm was pre-set. (In fact, it was set at 4:30 am). That thing scared the crap out of me. It feels like a bomb is going off - I leapt outta bed and couldn't figure out how to turn it off in my confused state.

preface to rest of stuff --> I'm a light sleeper but my best friend is a very deep sleeper.

The alarm clock I use I got off of a website for people who are deaf. When it goes off it makes the bed vibrate, the lights in the room blink, and you can make it be bloody loud and you have the option of varrying the pitch. I only like to use either the vibrating feature or the blinking lights because I dont like the noise of other alarm clocks. When my best friend comes over I can never wake him up; I throw things at him, hit him, talk to him then yell at him, etc... If I set the alarm clock to do all three things he wakes up pretty quickly and much easier than me wasting my energy getting him to budge.

There are even travel alarm clocks that do the vibrate the pillow and make noise deal.

Sonic Boom Alarm Clock - kinda pricey but cheaper than failing a rotation

slightly cheaper

 

[KidDr]

I agree with setting multiple alarms, I usually set at least 2 at home, and 3 when I'm at the hospital (palm, pager, and alarm clock). So far it's worked. But you also might want to look into whether you have a problem with sleep phase abnormalities or hypersomnia, because these are potentially treatable by a sleep doctor, which could make life easier for you on the wards and during residency.

Just thought of something else--we're all addressing how to wake up in the AM so you don't oversleep, but you'll still potentially have the problem of sleeping through your pager when on overnight call. For what it's worth, I'm a very heavy sleeper and I've only slept through my pager once or twice in the past 3+ years on call. I think it's something psychological, like my brain knows it can't sleep as deep when I'm on call or something, I don't know. But I still recommend possibly seeing a sleep doctor, too, if you continue to have difficulty with this.

 

[cytoskelement]

See A Sleep Specialist. You're oversleeping is pathological. You can use all the alarm clocks you want; regardless, there is still a problem that will ONLY be adressed by a sleep doc. At this point, you are only hurting yourself. But as your career advances, you will be hurting your patients and the others that DEPEND on you.

Note to everyone on this. You SHOULD feel refreshed when you wake up after a full night of sleep (7-8 hr for most). If you don't, start thinking about why you don't!

 

[Daredevil]

Get a roommate or someone who will make sure you wake up every morning. Just compensate him or her well.

 

[toofache32]

I'm bad about turning off the alarm in the morning while I'm still fairly asleep and not remembering it. I remember seeing an advertisement for an alarm clock that is on wheels. When it goes off it makes the usual loud noise, but it rolls off your table and onto the floor. Then you have to get up and chase it around the room to get it to shut up. Pretty funny, but I've been thinking about getting one.

 

[care bear]

thanks so much everyone!

'clocky' , the alarm clock that rolls around, sounds SO great but it's actually not on the public market yet!

and the vibrating clocks do sound good, but i'm thinking i need something that I can't just turn off while lying in bed, even if it is vibrating.

i guess my issue is not purely sleep but the immediate post-sleep phase. . . if i don't stay awake for at least 5 minutes, i remain in a half-asleep stage and have no problem going right back to bed (even after i've gotten up to turn off my alarm clock in another room!!)

so. . .i signed up for 'Mr. Wakeup' it's a service that calls you and plays your own pre-recorded message. for $15/month, i'm having it call me at 6.00, 6.05, and 6.10. each time, i'll have to get up and answer or just let it ring. . .it started this morning and i think it'll really be good.

after this month, maybe i will cut down to the $5/month plan and just go with one call a day, in addition to my normal alarm clocks (2).

i also am going to try drinking a glass of red wine before bed. it helps you get to sleep(although i don't need that!),
but then apparently it makes your sleep lighter after a couple hours (not an ill effect for me!)
and decreases your REM sleep (if anything, i'm guessing i have too much REM sleep. . .and decreasing REM sleep is one action of most antidepressants).

well, i hope this works! thanks again everyone.

maybe i'll let you know how it goes. . .

i'm also going to a doctor this week; i will ask her to refer me to a sleep specialist as many of you suggested, in case these tricks don't work.

 

[care bear]

oh man oh man. . . this thread should really be moved to allopathic now . ..
so, i made an appointment with a new family doc for this afternoon at 2.20. last night, got about 4 hrs sleep, but did get up on time for 8 am class.

had terrible (possibly hornet-spray induced) headache this morning though, so left school around 11 (classes would have been over anyway at 12 today).

went home, SET MY CLOCK for 2 pm, went to sleep.
2pm: have a vague memory of a very disturbing loud noise, wandering into living room to make it stop, and going back to bed.

i look back on it now and see that i wasn't thinking clearly at all! all i was thinking was 'i gotta make this noise stop', not realizing that i had an appointment!
and it's not like mornings, where i've been thinking that maybe my sleeping in is avoidance. . (ie. maybe i just don't want to go to AM class.) no, i *really* wanted to make this appoinment. i really wanted to talk with this doc about my problem, and now, i have overslept through an appointment to talk about oversleeping.

i scare myself!

 

[heech]

Stop trying to find mysterious explanations for your "ailment". There's nothing scary about what you're facing, and the solution is a lot simpler than everything else already listed.

Go. to. bed. earlier.

It's all a matter of will power. If you're having problems waking up at the proper time, then don't go to sleep at 2:20 in the morning. It's not too hard to see the connection between going to bed too late, and having a difficulty getting up the next day.

You don't need an alarm to wake you up in the mornings at 6. You need an alarm to turn off your lights at 10 PM every night. Use your will-power, and force yourself into bed at the right time.

 

[AJM]

Well, this is your problem -- you have an oversleeping problem because you are going to bed at 3am! Of course you are oversleeping! If you are really worried about this, start going to bed at an earlier time, and get more sleep than what you are getting. Your behavior and sleep pattern is very suggestive of someone who has acquired a huge sleep debt. My guess is that your sleep requirement is around 9 hours of sleep/night (average sleep requirement is 8.5 hours/night), and you are only getting on average 6 hours or less of sleep a night, and therefore when you go to sleep you absolutely crash, and then have a difficult time waking up. Your body is telling you that you need more sleep.

Make a new appointment with your doctor, get more sleep, and for god's sake, go to bed earlier! Yes, you may need a sleep study as well, because your sleep pattern does sound a little extreme even for someone who simply has a large sleep debt. But try sleeping more first. The sleep study will just tell you that you're sleep deprived.

 

[care bear]

thanks for the recent feeback.
this board is great; i would really feel like an idiot talking to my friends in any depth about my inability to handle such a basic aspect of life (sleeping and waking up!).

you're right that i need to go to bed earlier- it is just So hard to do.
but i think the alarm to go to bed is a great idea! i think i will have Mr. Wakeup call my cell at 9.50 pm every night to tell me to start getting ready for bed. . .maybe that little tangible 'kick' will help me do better.

i rescheduled this afternoon's appointment; not the end of the world, i suppose.
but even if she refers me to a sleep specialist, i don't think i'll go! i found out it costs $1800-2000 for a sleep study! even a nap study! and my insurance company does not cover it anywhere locally. there is only one sleep doctor in my state who is 'in-network', apparently, and she is 3 hours away.

so, i really think i'm going to end up relying on these things like adjusting my sleep time, perhaps adjusting the depth of my sleep with alcohol or caffeine (that sounds so bad, but really it's logical!) and any other suggestions my doc has, or that you guys have. . .

so feel free to offer more suggestions. thank you so much for the advice thus far. .truly helpful!

 

[Flutterbyu]

Have a kid- you totally lose the ability to sleep heavily once there is another human being depending on you. Of course, then you actually have to take car of another human being, so this might not be the most viable option right now, but it is something to look forward to

 

[care bear]

flutter, i wish i could!!

for the reasons alluded to above, and others, i definitely don't think i'm one of those rare souls who can handle med school+ babies, or residency+ babies. but i most certainly look forward to the time when i can take a break from medicine and devote myself to being a loving ,caring, full-time mommy, at least for a few years.


i'm willing to bet that i'll be a better mom than med student. . .at least i sure hope so!

 

[Doc Ivy]

Smells like Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome to me---not trying to diagnose over the net so I put the criteria are below, it may apply to you. But if you want to try something cheap and relatively safe before shelling a lot of $$ for a sleep study melatonin about 30-60 min before bed may be the answer. Sleep hygiene is key--avoid bright light exposure in the early evening because it tends to delay sleep onset. Bright light early in the am can help advance you.

DSPS Dx Criteria
Symptoms have been present for at least a month, and usually much longer.

Predominantly by the inability to fall asleep before early morning (i.e., 12 midnight to 3 a.m.). The inability to fall asleep at the desired time.

Great difficulty waking in the morning, leading to the principal social complication.

Complaint of insomnia or excessive sleepiness.

Depression may be present.

This sleep pattern has been present for 3 months.

Associated Features:

The person may be described by family as a night owls.

Say they function best, and are most creative in the evening and at night.

Usually have tried many times to change their sleeping schedule.

Frequently request family members to help wake them in the morning.

Symptoms often begin in adolescence, childhood, or infancy.

Sleepy during the day, especially in the morning, if they have had to get up early.

May sleep in on weekends (often past noon and for more than 10 hours) to make up for not getting enough sleep during the rest of the week.

Need at least 30 minutes to fall asleep, even when they go to bed at a time that is realistic for them.

 

[Adcadet]

Yeah, see a specialist. One of our sleep medicine docs told us about a med student he evaluated a few years back who just could not wake up before 7 am and anything before noon was hard. He managed to do OK in years 1-2, but ended up in trouble early in year 3. He ended up having to choose a specialty where he didn't have to be someplace too early (didn't say which, but I'm guessing it might have been rads or path).

 

[basiligaw]

wow i'm glad i stumbled upon this thread cause i have the same issues with sleep as carebear. I'm a 4th yr now and as a first yr i overslept through like two major tests but after that i never overslept for a test even if i had like two hrs of sleep. during first and second yr i never went to am classes----ihate mornings! But third year i def had my problems with oversleeping including being late for rounds several times on my internal medicine rotation and i only had to be there at 9! i was always late for ob though luckily i had a light obgyn rotation so it didn't matter too much. surgery was
the worst cause i had to be there at 640 everyday with an hour commute---i was late a handful of times. i went to a sleep doctor last year who basicaly said i had hypersomnia, der, and that was it.
after reading all the suggestions on this thread i can say i've tried them all except for the rolling clock and the blinking light clock. i triedgoing to sleep earlier---i would just wake up like 3 hours later at like 2 am and not be able to fall back asleep---that was the worst. so then i went to a psychiatrist and got me some lunesta---it puts me out about a half hour after i take it and i'd sleep through the whole night. but it was so hard for me to get up still---so i still don't know what to do about it except just deal with it
i envy you ppl who can justwake up and not feel like crap

 

[toofache32]

... surgery was
the worst cause i had to be there at 640 everyday with an hour commute...

I have to say that's the latest I've ever heard of anyone going in on a surgery rotation....student or resident.

 

[KidDr]

wow i'm glad i stumbled upon this thread cause i have the same issues with sleep as carebear. I'm a 4th yr now and as a first yr i overslept through like two major tests but after that i never overslept for a test even if i had like two hrs of sleep. during first and second yr i never went to am classes----ihate mornings! But third year i def had my problems with oversleeping including being late for rounds several times on my internal medicine rotation and i only had to be there at 9! i was always late for ob though luckily i had a light obgyn rotation so it didn't matter too much. surgery was
the worst cause i had to be there at 640 everyday with an hour commute---i was late a handful of times. i went to a sleep doctor last year who basicaly said i had hypersomnia, der, and that was it.
after reading all the suggestions on this thread i can say i've tried them all except for the rolling clock and the blinking light clock. i triedgoing to sleep earlier---i would just wake up like 3 hours later at like 2 am and not be able to fall back asleep---that was the worst. so then i went to a psychiatrist and got me some lunesta---it puts me out about a half hour after i take it and i'd sleep through the whole night. but it was so hard for me to get up still---so i still don't know what to do about it except just deal with it
i envy you ppl who can justwake up and not feel like crap

Your sleep doctor just said you had hypersomnia but didn't help you do anything about it? I would think that you'd benefit from stimulant meds like ritalin, at least while you're trying to get through med school and residency, maybe you should ask about that.

 

[basiligaw]

Your sleep doctor just said you had hypersomnia but didn't help you do anything about it? I would think that you'd benefit from stimulant meds like ritalin, at least while you're trying to get through med school and residency, maybe you should ask about that.

no luck; my psychiatrist refuses to give me any stimulant

 

[Doc Ivy]

You might need to cut the lunesta in half-- sounds like its working for you but in your system for too long.

Clearly your psychiatrist doesn't feel right prescribing you Ritalin or Adderal off-label, but it might be worth going to a sleep specialist (usually neurology) who sees this kind of thing all the time and might be more comfortable giving you Provigil or something. At the very least you'll get a sleep sutdy and a decent explanation of your symptoms-- c'mon hypersomnia as a diganosis? You knew that before you went to see your doc

 

[Cirrus83]

So...I know this thread is 2 years old, and I'm not a 3rd year yet, but I figured since I've had similar problems before I'd just bump it.

Yeah so, I have no problems getting up if I actually get enough sleep (like 7 or 8 hours is no problem). Problem is that if I've been up a long time, and then I'm only given like 3 hours to sleep I have more of an issue waking up.

Now, like care bear, there have been times when I've simply ended up not getting enough sleep for a few days in a row and oversleeping important things (although it was only one test in undergrad and not a regular occurence, and to be fair it was for a class where the lowest grade gets dropped so it wasn't really imperative that I show up for the test, but I had planned on taking it anyway or I wouldn't have been up late studying).

Anyways, to the point: I was talking to a 4th year here and apparently some of our hospitals do not have locked on-call rooms for students on their surgery rotation. And apparently there's a rule that prevents the hospital from allowing students to sleep in unlocked rooms due to crimes having been committed, etc. So...to protect us they make you drive home, sleep 3 hours, and drive back.

This doesn't happen every night, but apparently every 3rd night this will happen. And so even though this is 2 years away I'm freaking out right now about not being able to wake up, because a lot of the time I'll oversleep a class if I'm only given 3 hours to sleep.

Do I just convince a doctor to give me Provigil then pop it every 3rd day or something?

Oh, and even though this thread is 2 years old I will say that care bear's suggestion that he take stimulants BEFORE bed is not as ridiculous as it may sound to dynx. So long as you're able to fall asleep before the stimulant makes it difficult to do so, it's a LOT easier to wake up when only sleeping like 3 hours when you take a caffeine pill 5 minutes before passing out. I think I found this out in high school by accident. Of course, it's not entirely practical because I'm pretty certain it makes the last 2 hours of your 3 hours of sleep quite a bit less restful, but then again 3 hours isn't fantastic anyway.

I kinda wish they would invent a time-release caffeine pill that only starts releasing after X number of hours or something, so like the caffeine will hit your blood stream after 3 hours just in time to wake up.

P.S. for those who point out that I'm on SDN at 2:20AM, it's because I just got back from the anatomy lab, not because I'm staying up late reading SDN so I can miss class the next day from oversleeping.

 

[Blade28]

Wait, you have Q3 overnight call but you're expected to drive home to sleep for a few hours? Or does the call end at around midnight?

If you're only going to be home for that short a period of time, I'd just find somewhere in the hospital to nap...or stay awake and pray there's a post-call rule.

 

[Cirrus83]

Wait, you have Q3 overnight call but you're expected to drive home to sleep for a few hours? Or does the call end at around midnight?

If you're only going to be home for that short a period of time, I'd just find somewhere in the hospital to nap...or stay awake and pray there's a post-call rule.

There's no post-call rule for students apparently. I think how it works is that at those hospitals (the ones without an on call room for the students to sleep in) they end the call at like 1AM, but since there's no post-call for students you might have to show back up at 5:00 AM to do pre-rounds. Since it takes a little while to drive home and back, you're just left with like 3 hours to sleep.

That said, I don't know if they'll physically throw you out of the hospital if you just sit down and fall asleep in the hallway or something? But apparently the 4th year I was talking to actually did drive home and back, which I kinda think is crazy.

She did say that they might change things by the time I'm a 3rd year so that all the hospitals have an on-call room for students to sleep in though, since apparently this whole crazy drive home sleep 3 hours then drive back thing was a recent thing in response to some requirement that all on-call rooms be lockable from the inside, so students can't just sleep in a random room somewhere. But I dunno if I can really count on all the hospitals to build new on-call rooms before I rotate.

 

[Blade28]

I'm confused. You end call at 1 am, come back at 5 am...then have a regular day? So it's not overnight call?

Or you end call at 1 am, come back at 5 am, then go home again at 12 pm?

 

[Doowai]

Have a kid- you totally lose the ability to sleep heavily once there is another human being depending on you. Of course, then you actually have to take car of another human being, so this might not be the most viable option right now, but it is something to look forward to

Is that true. Before marraige and kids I could sleep so heavy. I lived in Kansas City, and around 1988 a trailer they kept nitroglycerin in exploded early one morning. Killed several firemen, blew a hole 25 deep in the ground. Literally moved my bed a few inches across the floor. Blew a neighbors door off the hinges and glass from a nearby apartment was stuck in the door. Cracked windows in Marshall Missouri (which is like an hour away). I slept until my phone rang and a girl in my apartment complex said : they are evacuating our complex and I was getting ready to leave when I saw your car was still here so I am calling to see if you are getting out. I thought she was kidding, until I heard firemen with a bullhorn outside my door telling everyone to evacuate.

I also once slept on the porch of my parents house while visiting them, about that same time, the window was open and it rained on me and I did not wake up. In college I was in this goofy fraternity for awhile and after a pledge walk out we had to sleep in the basement, in our underwear, on wet mattresses with the windows open in Missouri in November. It was cold as hell but I still slept. It may be hereditary - my dad was a prisoner of war in WWII, and slept in the snow with no shoes on his feet and no coat during one of the coldest winters in Germany.

I got married and had kids - I wake up when they get up at night to go to the bathroom now.

 

[Doowai]

I would set 2 or 3 alarms as suggested - the first one by my bed so I can just reach and turn it off. I would set a cup of coffee or some other caffeine drink (100-200 mg) by the bed. The bedside alarm would be set to go off first 30 minutes before I need to get up - I would turn it off, reach for the coffee and go back to sleep. The next alarm a few feet away would be set for 30 minutes later (the time you need to get up). The third would be set 10 feet a way for 15 minutes later. Caffeine's effects peak one hour after ingestion.

If the alarms and caffeine don't do it - having to get up to pee from the coffee will.

 

[Blade28]

Hey, caffeinated drink by the beside? I like it! I should put a Red Bull on my bedside table.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I know many hospitals do not have rules about call for students, but they are setting themselves up for MAJOR liability if they are requiring you to take call until 1 am, get in your car and drive home only to return 4 hrs later.

Hospitals are required to provide a private place to sleep and rest for residents but I am unaware (and do not have time right now) if there are corollary rules for students (probably not, since they dont' have to adhere to the 80 hr work week either).

My suggestion is that you investigate what the requirements are and if there are none for students, that you bring this up to the Legal Department/Risk Management that the hospital is placing themselves in jeopardy by making people work 20 hr shifts (ie, coming in at 0500, staying until 0100) and then returning 4 hrs later while forcing them to get into a car and drive without adequate rest because they have no facilities.

This is serious and the hospital is making a big mistake. IMHO, they either need to shorten call so that you have a 10 hr rest period between shifts (ie, you go home at 7 pm or come in later than 0500) or they need to provide you a place to sleep and consider it overnight call, with you going home post-call. This crap happens when administration makes rules without knowing what really goes on (they don't know what time you come in and leave).

A few students getting into accidents (Or worse) shouldn't have to happen. Since you live in an area with snow and ice, this is a very real possibility when they require sleepy students to get out on the road to go home.

 

[Cirrus83]

It's not considered overnight call, so you don't get to go home early the next day or anything (like a resident gets to post-call). I don't think they stay quite as late the next day though (more like a regular day as opposed to the previous day which would be super long), but you definitely aren't leaving early like a post-call resident is.

Apparently even at the hospitals with overnight call rooms for students there's no post-call rule, but at least you have someplace to sleep.

That said, I'm not sure if this is just the case at 1-2 of the hospitals where there aren't on-call rooms (I have no idea why there are so many hospitals without lockable on-call rooms for students) or if it's all of them or what. Basically the way it is, is that one of the surgery rotations will be at a hospital with an on-call room, and then the 2nd one is at a hospital without an on-call room available.

Either way it scared the crap out of me lol.

 

[Cirrus83]

Is that true. Before marraige and kids I could sleep so heavy. I lived in Kansas City, and around 1988 a trailer they kept nitroglycerin in exploded early one morning. Killed several firemen, blew a hole 25 deep in the ground. Literally moved my bed a few inches across the floor. Blew a neighbors door off the hinges and glass from a nearby apartment was stuck in the door. Cracked windows in Marshall Missouri (which is like an hour away). I slept until my phone rang and a girl in my apartment complex said : they are evacuating our complex and I was getting ready to leave when I saw your car was still here so I am calling to see if you are getting out. I thought she was kidding, until I heard firemen with a bullhorn outside my door telling everyone to evacuate.

I also once slept on the porch of my parents house while visiting them, about that same time, the window was open and it rained on me and I did not wake up. In college I was in this goofy fraternity for awhile and after a pledge walk out we had to sleep in the basement, in our underwear, on wet mattresses with the windows open in Missouri in November. It was cold as hell but I still slept. It may be hereditary - my dad was a prisoner of war in WWII, and slept in the snow with no shoes on his feet and no coat during one of the coldest winters in Germany.

I got married and had kids - I wake up when they get up at night to go to the bathroom now.

Yes it's true, when people have kids they lose the ability to be super heavy sleepers because they have to wake up so much to take care of the kids. Especially if you slept next to your kids when they were babies, you get used to waking up whenever they wake up.

Unfortunately I don't think this is a particularly practical solution to being a deep sleeper Or should I be out there trying to find a mother for my child?

 

[Blade28]

It's not considered overnight call, so you don't get to go home early the next day or anything (like a resident gets to post-call). I don't think they stay quite as late the next day though (more like a regular day as opposed to the previous day which would be super long), but you definitely aren't leaving early like a post-call resident is.

Apparently even at the hospitals with overnight call rooms for students there's no post-call rule, but at least you have someplace to sleep.

That said, I'm not sure if this is just the case at 1-2 of the hospitals where there aren't on-call rooms (I have no idea why there are so many hospitals without lockable on-call rooms for students) or if it's all of them or what. Basically the way it is, is that one of the surgery rotations will be at a hospital with an on-call room, and then the 2nd one is at a hospital without an on-call room available.

Either way it scared the crap out of me lol.

Yeah, that's pretty tough.

I don't want to sound like a crusty old fogie ("back in my day, we walked to work barefoot in the snow, uphill both ways," etc.), but when I was a med student we also weren't subject to the same ACGME/RRC regulations that the residents were. Now while I would never say we worked as hard as them, we did work more hours.

My General Surgery rotation as an MS-III was tough - Q3 overnight call, no post-call. No sleep during call, so call rooms weren't an issue.

But the toughest rotation was my SICU rotation, which was Q3 overnight call (again with no sleep) with no post-call. And no days off. So that was 30 days of pain.

But I like to think it made me stronger.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I stand by my recommendation that you, your classmates, someone talk to Risk Management. If taking call is required as part of the rotation and you have only 4 hours between shifts, it is a potential liability for the hospital not to have a place for you to rest.

This is independent of whether or not you go home early post-call, or how late you stay.

 

[Blade28]

I stand by my recommendation that you, your classmates, someone talk to Risk Management. If taking call is required as part of the rotation and you have only 4 hours between shifts, it is a potential liability for the hospital not to have a place for you to rest.

This is independent of whether or not you go home early post-call, or how late you stay.

I agree that driving home when dead-tired is a very risky move.

Early on during internship, there'd be some post-call days when I was so exhausted I was scared to drive home (even though I lived less than 10 minutes away from the hospital). So I'd take a quick hour-nap in the call room before heading home.

 

[Tired]

You don't need a call room to sleep. I've slept a lot of weird places in hospitals, including but not limited to: waiting rooms, patient rooms, empty rooms in the ER, the cast clinic, and resident offices.

Seriously, try it on those short nights. I can only count a handful of people who've ever given me crap about it.

 

[Blade28]

You don't need a call room to sleep. I've slept a lot of weird places in hospitals, including but not limited to: waiting rooms, patient rooms, empty rooms in the ER, the cast clinic, and resident offices.

Yeah, me too.

*Library
*OR lounge
*PACU
*Computer room
*Conference room

 

[Doowai]

Yes it's true, when people ....

I was not actually asking a question "Is that true" - I was agreeing with you. When there is no question mark its a rhetorical question, and no need of a question mark

 

[Doowai]

Yeah, me too.

*Library
*OR lounge
*PACU
*Computer room
*Conference room

You are missing the best one - the church sanctuary that is in hospitals. THe padded pews are damn comfortable - you can even lay down on them

 

[Doowai]

Hey, caffeinated drink by the beside? I like it! I should put a Red Bull on my bedside table.

Does Red Bull have the antioxidant benefits of coffee - plus coffee improves lung function and has been shown to reduce the development of liver cancer in people with cirrhosis.

I never drank coffee until MS4 - then grew to like it. I especially like a 15 minute power nap, when I can grab it, in the afternoon - when tired drink 100-200 mg of caffeinated coffee then lay down and sleep for 15 minutes. I wake up raring to go. The best stimulant I have ever tried is something new I began just recently called Red Blast. Its a pill - have to take it an hour in advance as it has a real thick coating to keep it from dissolving easily due to what some say is a bad taste. I perks me up but does not give me any jitteriness or pressured speech which sometimes happens to me with coffee.

 

[Terpskins99]

You are missing the best one - the church sanctuary that is in hospitals. THe padded pews are damn comfortable - you can even lay down on them

A couple of neg's of this one.

1) Its kinda disrespectful
2) Sleeping in a church when it gets dark and nobody's around is pretty creepy
3) Most pews aren't padded

 

[Doowai]

A couple of neg's of this one.

1) Its kinda disrespectful
2) Sleeping in a church when it gets dark and nobody's around is pretty creepy
3) Most pews aren't padded

Aaah, no rest for the wicked , heh. At least I am in good company. King David was certainly considered disrespectful when he ate the blessed shew bread on the Sabbath. But as Jesus said; the Sabbath is made for the benefit of man, man was not made for the benefit of the Sabbath.

 

[VMSmith]

I know one of my friends was in on a case until 2 am once and just slept in her car rather than drive home. She also didn't have any days off, not even weekends, since she was "never really post-call". She did say though that the administration have been trying to enforce a "med students have to leave by 11 pm" rule at the hospital without call rooms for exactly the reasons Kimberli mentioned; she says residents have been "yelled at" for keeping med students too long but I'm not sure how much of a deterrent that's been. I have heard of students being told to scrub out and leave at 11 though.