What is a gunner

[AmIaGunner]

Help me out here...

I need a definition: Gunner

A friend and I are having an argument and we need it to be settled. I will not bias you any further.

Ami

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[2112_rush]

Help me out here...

I need a definition: Gunner

A friend and I are having an argument and we need it to be settled. I will not bias you any further.

Ami

I've heard it used alot of ways. Some people think anyone who studies alot is a gunner, but hey, I don't fault anybody for pushing themselves hard to do well. I consider a gunner to be someone who would undermine his/her classmates to get ahead or look better in front of professors/attendings/residents.

 

[typeB-md]

a gunner is a gut feeling you get about someone when you see them. Do you think:

a.) Man, I admire that persons study habits.

b.) That b@stard is screwing others over to get ahead and asks 600 questsions a day.

 

[tigershark]

Someone who is not so bright and compensates with excessive, compulsive effort.

 

[heldicus]

I consider a gunner to be someone who would undermine his/her classmates to get ahead or look better in front of professors/attendings/residents.

Bingo

 

[Skichic56]

On a similar topic, how do you get into AOA? It sounds like the process is different for every school. Not that I'm a gunner, but I was wondering in general. It seems like a big deal and esp. when applying for residency. Are there benefits besides prestige?

 

[novacek88]

A gunner is someone who seeks to excel at the detriment of his or her classmates. In the past this definition only applied to obviously ruthless examples like hiding books or not sharing old exams etc.

However, I think the definition should encompass those who even refuse to help his or her classmates. We all know of the student who pretends he or she doesn't know anything or doesn't know enough to help you only to somehow "get lucky" and ace the exam. Those people sicken me. That is your classic gunner right there.

Most gunners today are closet gunners. They don't admit they study. They want to give the impression the are some rare genius who can party until 4 AM the day of the exam and just get an A because they can "test well."

Bullshyte...nobody learns through osmosis or gets A's on exams because they have "good test taking skills." Anyone who does well in medical school studies their arse off. Do not believe otherwise. Some people are just better at hiding their studying than others. And some people are fooled because the closet gunner has an appearance that contradicts that of a serious student. You know the guy who looks like a stoner who is always talking about going out and drinking...etc...beware of that person because he is a gunner.

Closet gunners lie for one of two reasons

1. They to come accross as a genius.

2. They don't want to be ostracized for being " a nerd" or someone who studies excessively so they lie about how much they study

Most fall into category #2. in my experience.

To those gunners out there, here is my Rx for you

1. Admit you study a lot. Everyone knows you do. They will just respect you for your honesty. If you don't make it a big deal by admitting you study a lot; others won't either.

2. Help your classmates when possible. It will help you solidy the material and you will help your classmates at the same time.

 

[typeB-md]

On a similar topic, how do you get into AOA? It sounds like the process is different for every school. Not that I'm a gunner, but I was wondering in general. It seems like a big deal and esp. when applying for residency. Are there benefits besides prestige?

are you really a ski chic?

 

[SoulRFlare]

Bullshyte...nobody learns through osmosis or gets A's on exams because they have "good test taking skills." Anyone who does well in medical school studies their arse off. Do not believe otherwise. Some people are just better at hiding their studying than others.

There are those rare folks who have photographic memories and really don't need to study much...ppl who can read it once and know it.
oh to have a well developed hippocampus

 

[novacek88]

There are those rare folks who have photographic memories and really don't need to study much...ppl who can read it once and know it.
oh to have a well developed hippocampus

that's what they would have you believe. For example, I knew a "genius" in anatomy. He learned everything really quickly and only had to read things once. Then I learned he was an anatomy major at an Ivy League school. Also, a lot of people are used to working hard in undergrad so their transition to medical school is not as strenuous. Those people also appear to be geniuses because they have a better background in science etc.

 

[SoulRFlare]

that's what they would have you believe. For example, I knew a "genius" in anatomy. He learned everything really quickly and only had to read things once. Then I learned he was an anatomy major at an Ivy League school. Also, a lot of people are used to working hard in undergrad so their transition to medical school is not as strenuous. Those people also appear to be geniuses because they have a better background in science etc.

granted, there are those folks too...but like my dad tells me when i complain about the "glass grade ceiling" curve..."you're in the big leagues now." Med school (presumably) selects the best of the best, and there are people at this educational level who are simply naturally gifted when it comes to memorizing facts/figures/concepts...

 

[zeloc]

granted, there are those folks too...but like my dad tells me when i complain about the "glass grade ceiling" curve..."you're in the big leagues now." Med school (presumably) selects the best of the best, and there are people at this educational level who are simply naturally gifted when it comes to memorizing facts/figures/concepts...

I'm not so sure about people being naturally gifted at memorizing. All of the top students in my class are huge studiers, and I know someone who considers himself to be a good memorizer but studies 4 hours a day. That seems like a lot to me.

There are some excellent characterizations of the gunner above. I will add some more examples: People who miss a couple questions on a test but then argue with the professor to have the answer changed are gunners. Now I'm competitive myself and do well, but if I legitimately miss a question, then I accept it. I don't try to have the answer changed/double-keyed just so I can have a perfect score. Another example: I noticed that this one kid was always at the med school. What's more, when I'd be at the med school and he'd ask me what I was up to, he'd act incredulous whenever I mentioned I was studying. I also noticed this kid always acted like he didn't know what was going on in any class. Now how do explain someone who's at the med school all the time and doesn't know what's going on in any class? Like someone was saying before, the person's appearance/attitude can throw you off, because if I didn't realize these things, I would have thought there was no way he was a gunner.

 

[ice_23]

We must also remember that it is characteristic of medical students to assume someone's a gunner until proven otherwise, especially if said person is doing well. It's within the natural boundaries of a med. students paranoid, over-acheiving complex.

-Ice

 

[Espion]

A gunner is apparently someone who shows up on time.

 

[typeB-md]

A gunner is apparently someone who shows up on time.

yea, that's exactly it... it's no mystery why your are in medical school after reading your post. seriously, you are so good at getting to the bottom a question.

 

[SoulRFlare]

a gunner is the anal retentive roomie in "patch adams"...(Renal/GI exam in T- minus 7 days...my mind's in the splanchna these days...)

 

[Espion]

yea, that's exactly it... it's no mystery why you'RE are in medical school after reading your post. seriously, you are so good at getting to the bottom a question.

Whoa! Where's your animosity from, dude?

 

[Hoya11]

A gunner to me is someone who does well in school but has some other huge flaw, yet still thinks they are the ****..
like guys who do really well in class but have never kissed a girl for example, willing to sacrifice way too much for academic reward i guess you could say

 

[RangerD]

A gunner is someone who shoots a machine gun.

 

[GQ1]

A gunner is someone who seeks to excel at the detriment of his or her classmates. In the past this definition only applied to obviously ruthless examples like hiding books or not sharing old exams etc.

However, I think the definition should encompass those who even refuse to help his or her classmates. We all know of the student who pretends he or she doesn't know anything or doesn't know enough to help you only to somehow "get lucky" and ace the exam. Those people sicken me. That is your classic gunner right there.

Most gunners today are closet gunners. They don't admit they study. They want to give the impression the are some rare genius who can party until 4 AM the day of the exam and just get an A because they can "test well."

Bullshyte...nobody learns through osmosis or gets A's on exams because they have "good test taking skills." Anyone who does well in medical school studies their arse off. Do not believe otherwise. Some people are just better at hiding their studying than others. And some people are fooled because the closet gunner has an appearance that contradicts that of a serious student. You know the guy who looks like a stoner who is always talking about going out and drinking...etc...beware of that person because he is a gunner.

Closet gunners lie for one of two reasons

1. They to come accross as a genius.

2. They don't want to be ostracized for being " a nerd" or someone who studies excessively so they lie about how much they study

Most fall into category #2. in my experience.

To those gunners out there, here is my Rx for you

1. Admit you study a lot. Everyone knows you do. They will just respect you for your honesty. If you don't make it a big deal by admitting you study a lot; others won't either.

2. Help your classmates when possible. It will help you solidy the material and you will help your classmates at the same time.

you re spot on. a gunner is a f#g, for screwing of his classmates by deceit - and dont give me any of your touchy feely PC stuff about that gunners

 

[bansheeDO]

and there are people at this educational level who are simply naturally gifted when it comes to memorizing facts/figures/concepts...

True, there are certainly people who are gifted at memorizing. That's probably why they spend 6-7 hours per day doing it.

 

[carrie198]

There used to be a really funny thread on SDN that was something along the lines of "Are you a Gunner?", in which you could tally up a bunch of remarks and determine your gunner score. I've tried searching for it without any luck. Does anyone know how to find it? Thanks!

 

[Bo Hurley]

People like novacek can kid themselves all they want, but there are some VERY bright people in med school.And I'm not just talking about being brilliant at memorizing. More along the lines of brilliant lateral thinkers who can put together concepts to figure things out when most of the other students can't---those are the ones who pull the 260+ on the USMLEs. No amount of memorization can do that, you gotta go one step beyond.

And yeah I've met a couple of people who have a "photographic memory" or as close to one as you'll get. Yep, they read something once and it sticks for a long, long time---not just until after the exam is over. I'm talking about dudes who can recite you biochem pathways and esoteric anatomy stuff they learned during first semester when they are now interns and beyond.

A lot of this "gunner" stuff just seems like sour grapes and envy. Some people don't want to accept that there are some very smart and gifted people out there (smarter than them) so they make up crap about them to make themselves feel better. You know the old saying "People believe what they want in order to protect their egos." Even if they are quiet and mind their own business, then you'll have people call them "closet gunners" and other junk. You just got to accept the fact that there are some people out there who are smarter than you, will study much less than you do, and still kick your butt on exams and on the wards.

 

[lunguv]

People like novacek can kid themselves all they want, but there are some VERY bright people in med school.And I'm not just talking about being brilliant at memorizing. More along the lines of brilliant lateral thinkers who can put together concepts to figure things out when most of the other students can't---those are the ones who pull the 260+ on the USMLEs. No amount of memorization can do that, you gotta go one step beyond.

And yeah I've met a couple of people who have a "photographic memory" or as close to one as you'll get. Yep, they read something once and it sticks for a long, long time---not just until after the exam is over. I'm talking about dudes who can recite you biochem pathways and esoteric anatomy stuff they learned during first semester when they are now interns and beyond.

A lot of this "gunner" stuff just seems like sour grapes and envy. Some people don't want to accept that there are some very smart and gifted people out there (smarter than them) so they make up crap about them to make themselves feel better. You know the old saying "People believe what they want in order to protect their egos." Even if they are quiet and mind their own business, then you'll have people call them "closet gunners" and other junk. You just got to accept the fact that there are some people out there who are smarter than you, will study much less than you do, and still kick your butt on exams and on the wards.

I imagine these people exist, but have not met any of these people in undergrad. Even the people who get 4.0's consistently do it by studying hard. I personally do not have a photographic memory and I consider my self average in intellect. I know that the people who get 4.0's at my school are not noticeably smarter than I am; it all comes down to who is willing to put in the time. I feel like most people are pretty similar in intelligence but what separates them is really their studying techniques and motivation. I did know one guy though when I was a freshman at my school, he was a senior, and I know he never studied but he used to kill every chemistry test like it was his job. Now it might be totally different in med school, since it is a collection of all the best students nationwide. I would be willing to bet though that the geniuses are far from being common even at Harvard Med School.

 

[Discobolus]

a gunner would be a person that complained to the administration when a professor was putting practice questions on a password protected website. This professors practice questions just happened to match the questions on the actual exam exactly

 

[Bo Hurley]

I imagine these people exist, but have not met any of these people in undergrad. Even the people who get 4.0's consistently do it by studying hard. I personally do not have a photographic memory and I consider my self average in intellect. I know that the people who get 4.0's at my school are not noticeably smarter than I am; it all comes down to who is willing to put in the time. I feel like most people are pretty similar in intelligence but what separates them is really their studying techniques and motivation. I did know one guy though when I was a freshman at my school, he was a senior, and I know he never studied but he used to kill every chemistry test like it was his job. Now it might be totally different in med school, since it is a collection of all the best students nationwide. I would be willing to bet though that the geniuses are far from being common even at Harvard Med School.

Believe me "these" people do exist. My former college housemate was one of them. Studied I'd say one-fourth of what I did and breezed through undergrad as biochem major (summa cum laude). Could read a page in my bio books and remember junk I had forgotten months later. It was amazing to say the least. He's now a PhD student. Tried to convince him to go to med school but he'd heard too many bad stories from his dad (his dad was a cardiologist and his mom was a professor at some other college---so you can bet good genes played a huge part). "They" do exist and "they" spend a lot less time studying to get great test scores.

 

[Gotcha!]

I won't argue that they don't exist, because I agree they do.
Genes do play a role no matter what you say.
But its definetly a rare thing.
Also it seems like when one student can be damn good at biochem (like Bo's roomate) often his skills in that field won't transcend to say, Poli Sci or something like that.
Not that it's a huge deal, just something I've noticed. Then again, there are those who can do it all so i'll tip my hat to those guys.

But the fact is, if student X builds good study techniques, and has a good education prior to college and another student goes to some piss poor school and, despite good grades, doesn't learn much...
Well you see what im driving at here..
Thats just one factor though in a pretty damn big equation, didn't see it posted just thought I'd throw it in.

 

[pekq]

That would be me!

 

[novacek88]

Of course people with high IQ's or "geniuses" exist but even these people stuy quite a bit. People who are really intelligent are naturally very inquisitive and want to learn why things work. Thus these people do tend to read more and "study." And they can do this for hours without thinking they have done a lot of work because that's how their minds operate. But contrary to what Bo Hurley would have you believe, they don't just read it once for 30 seconds, never see it again and ace the exam.

Some people love to believe that certain individuals "never study" and ace exams because it justifies why they can't earn a certain score like a 260 on Step I or a 100% on an exam. I know people who achieved both and suprise suprise....they were not geniuses. These people worked hard for their grades. I'm not saying they were of average intellect but they wouldn't have scored 260 had they not studied excessively. The people I have seen who succeed in medical school are both bright and hardworking. Many of the best students in my class had an amazing work ethic regardless of their intelligence. The people who are in the top 5% of the class study, and most of the time these students usually did well in undergrad too. And that work ethic was usually fostered from a very young age. These students didn't just turn it on in medical school. They went to competitive high schools and worked pretty hard in undergrad so they were used to studying and competing at a high level in college. For these people, medical school wasn't that much of a stretch in regards to their lifestyle and thus they could study 7-9 hours every single day. I agree these people are amazing lateral thinkers. They are not just memorizing lists. But in order to develop these thinkings skills, they often read and re-read the material and think about the subject matter from different angles. This is what separates people who have a 260 from a 240 person. The 260 Step I students have the concepts down. They understand how the little details work. The 240 Step I taker can regurgitate First Aid forward and backward but they don't understand the principles behind what they are memorizing. However, if it brings you peace of mind that those who succeed are just more gifted then you so be it.

My roommate in college was considered a genius by many. Like the rest of my friends, I never questioned his "genius" identity. I thought the guy never studied because he certainly gave the impression that he never studied. He smoked a lot of pot and attended every party with the rest of us. During the day, you could never find the guy. He would always say that he was at a friend's house drinking or napping etc. He often had the door closed. So naturally, I just assumed the guy was a rare genius and it was as simple as that until I decided to study in the medical school library. i was told the med library was a great place to study because it was quiet and not many undergrads were there. Guess who was studying in a corner...yup my roommate. I even hid from him and wanted to see how often he came there. So for the next two weeks, I just studied at that library and he was there every single day. After a while, I had to let him know I was there so I walked next to him and asked how he was doing. He just gave me some b.s. that he was trying to meet some girl there and he was just killing time.

Yes, there are a lot of "geniuses" like this. I knew my roommate was intelligent. You have to be intelligent to graduate with 3.95 and be accepted to Yale Law. However, the idea that this guy just slacked off and read the material once is pure b.s. He didn't just learn the material through osmosis. For those 2 weeks, he was at that library from 12 PM to 8 PM every day because that's how long I was there and I usually left before him so he could have been there longer. Anyway, people like Bo Hurley would see this guy and immediately just assume he was a genius and then tell everyone on studentdoctor about this pot smoking, hard drinking guy who gets A's and "never studies." Please...........


Moral of the story Even the most gifted people study.

 

[Bo Hurley]

Of course people with high IQ's or "geniuses" exist but even these people stuy quite a bit. People who are really intelligent are naturally very inquisitive and want to learn why things work. Thus these people do tend to read more and "study." And they can do this for hours without thinking they have done a lot of work because that's how their minds operate. But contrary to what Bo Hurley would have you believe, they don't just read it once for 30 seconds, never see it again and ace the exam.

Some people love to believe that certain individuals "never study" and ace exams because it justifies why they can't earn a certain score like a 260 on Step I or a 100% on an exam. I know people who achieved both and suprise suprise....they were not geniuses. These people worked hard for their grades. I'm not saying they were of average intellect but they wouldn't have scored 260 had they not studied excessively. The people I have seen who succeed in medical school are both bright and hardworking. Many of the best students in my class had an amazing work ethic regardless of their intelligence. The people who are in the top 5% of the class study, and most of the time these students usually did well in undergrad too. And that work ethic was usually fostered from a very young age. These students didn't just turn it on in medical school. They went to competitive high schools and worked pretty hard in undergrad so they were used to studying and competing at a high level in college. For these people, medical school wasn't that much of a stretch in regards to their lifestyle and thus they could study 7-9 hours every single day. I agree these people are amazing lateral thinkers. They are not just memorizing lists. But in order to develop these thinkings skills, they often read and re-read the material and think about the subject matter from different angles. This is what separates people who have a 260 from a 240 person. The 260 Step I students have the concepts down. They understand how the little details work. The 240 Step I taker can regurgitate First Aid forward and backward but they don't understand the principles behind what they are memorizing. However, if it brings you peace of mind that those who succeed are just more gifted then you so be it.

My roommate in college was considered a genius by many. Like the rest of my friends, I never questioned his "genius" identity. I thought the guy never studied because he certainly gave the impression that he never studied. He smoked a lot of pot and attended every party with the rest of us. During the day, you could never find the guy. He would always say that he was at a friend's house drinking or napping etc. He often had the door closed. So naturally, I just assumed the guy was a rare genius and it was as simple as that until I decided to study in the medical school library. i was told the med library was a great place to study because it was quiet and not many undergrads were there. Guess who was studying in a corner...yup my roommate. I even hid from him and wanted to see how often he came there. So for the next two weeks, I just studied at that library and he was there every single day. After a while, I had to let him know I was there so I walked next to him and asked how he was doing. He just gave me some b.s. that he was trying to meet some girl there and he was just killing time.

Yes, there are a lot of "geniuses" like this. I knew my roommate was intelligent. You have to be intelligent to graduate with 3.95 and be accepted to Yale Law. However, the idea that this guy just slacked off and read the material once is pure b.s. He didn't just learn the material through osmosis. For those 2 weeks, he was at that library from 12 PM to 8 PM every day because that's how long I was there and I usually left before him so he could have been there longer. Anyway, people like Bo Hurley would see this guy and immediately just assume he was a genius and then tell everyone on studentdoctor about this pot smoking, hard drinking guy who gets A's and "never studies." Please...........


Moral of the story Even the most gifted people study.

It is obvious you've got some insecurity/jealousy issues about people who are just naturally smarter than you (i.e. checking up/stalking that guy in the library).

So you've convinced yourself somehow that nobody can possibly study for a lot less time and still get great grades. That's fine if it makes you feel better.

However from my experience there ARE people who can read over a textbook page just one time and it sticks with them for a very long time and they don't have to ever re-read it again. That's why they call it a photographic memory. And yes some these people are in medical school.

 

[novacek88]

It is obvious you've got some insecurity/jealousy issues about people who are just naturally smarter than you (i.e. checking up/stalking that guy in the library).

I suppose that's why I had no reservations stating he was intelligent and that he was admitted to Yale Law School. You know what they say: "the truth hurts." It's obvious I upset you. What's wrong? Did you not score as well as you would have liked on Step I? Are you not getting the type of reviews you would have liked on the wards? I suppose you have to justify your failures by referring to others as geniuses. I suppose that's been your crutch. Maybe if you would have studied like those "geniuses" you would have been called one too, and you wouldn't sound so bitter like you do now.

Of course people with high IQ's exist, but even these people study. Sorry, but they don't look at notes for 30 minutes before an exam and ace it, but if it brings you peace of mind believing that so be it.

 

[4 Ever]

there are just a small handful of people that can actually "NOT" study and do great on exams. Most people usually lie about their studying habits - its not the ones that you find studying in the library all the time because they are not hiding the fact that they study a lot. Its the people that walk around a few days before the test saying "i suppose i should start studying eh?" and then miraculously ace the exams and attribute it to luck.

from what I have noticed at my school, a lot of people really do hide how much they study. its just not possible for the majority of the class to just not study and throw the average so high.

 

[Bo Hurley]

I suppose that's why I had no reservations stating he was intelligent and that he was admitted to Yale Law School. You know what they say: "the truth hurts." It's obvious I upset you. What's wrong? Did you not score as well as you would have liked on Step I? Are you not getting the type of reviews you would have liked on the wards? I suppose you have to justify your failures by referring to others as geniuses. I suppose that's been your crutch. Maybe if you would have studied like those "geniuses" you would have been called one too, and you wouldn't sound so bitter like you do now.

Of course people with high IQ's exist, but even these people study. Sorry, but they don't look at notes for 30 minutes before an exam and ace it, but if it brings you peace of mind believing that so be it.

See what I mean...you've deluded yourself into believing people can't ace exams with minimal studying, so you attack people (me) who claim it is true and have seen it for themselves. Yes I've personally seen dudes get an 'A' on exams by looking over the notes/text just the day before the exam. There's a reason they call it a photographic memory. You read it once and it sticks. But for some reason you are in denial about it. My old housemate was one of them. And if he's one then you can bet there are others.

Again, you seem to be really high-strung about the subject. Try not to follow/stalk other people to find out their study habits and do the best you can. Chill out. Not everybody is given the gift of a photographic memory, but just because you don't have one doesn't mean you have to deny it exists and that everybody has to study real hard. It's like you being short and denying that people over 7 feet tall exist. Rare yes, but they do exist.

 

[Elysium]

I have a classmate that has a "photographic" memory. He's scored a 110 on our last 2 anatomy practicals (which are a bitch) because he can see something and attach a name to it with little difficulty. He also does this with all our other classes too. I don't know if I would call him a genius, however, as having a memory and synthesizing concepts are two different animals. However, in the first 2 years a photographic memory would sure as hell come in handy. Which goes to show how total BS the first two years are...

 

[SocialistMD]

I've only met one person in my entire life with a true "photographic" memory. He is a computer programmer who works with my mom. I was at her office one day when she was asking someone else a work-related question and he happened to be walking by. He said, "Oh, that's xxx. It's in the second paragraph on page 131 of xxx book if you want to know more." (I remember the page number and paragraph because I almost pooped my pants over the exact detail he remembered, so that's all I bothered to remember). Sure enough, that's where it was. The thing is, this wasn't even this guy's area of work, he just read the book because he was bored. It turns out this joker is the black sheep of his family; one brother is a "rocket scientist" at NASA and the other works for the NSA in some top-secret area cracking codes or watching spy sattelites and predicting movements based on gardening patterns or something. This guy is a 50-year old hippie/biker who is happy living in a dumpy north Texas town writing code for the city. My mom says he does stuff like this all the time. I was impressed.

 

[eralza]

I think a lot of the success comes down to mental focus. Most of us have about a hundred different things going through our minds at any given moment. As an undergrad, one of the hardest things for me to do was sit in the library and study when I knew there were 2 feet of fresh powder snow that had fallen the night before. As I've grown older, I've had to compress more things into the day. Even though life is more hectic, it does help keep you focused on what you are doing.

 

[novacek88]

See what I mean...you've deluded yourself into believing people can't ace exams with minimal studying, so you attack people (me) who claim it is true and have seen it for themselves. Yes I've personally seen dudes get an 'A' on exams by looking over the notes/text just the day before the exam. There's a reason they call it a photographic memory. You read it once and it sticks. But for some reason you are in denial about it. My old housemate was one of them. And if he's one then you can bet there are others.

Again, you seem to be really high-strung about the subject. Try not to follow/stalk other people to find out their study habits and do the best you can. Chill out. Not everybody is given the gift of a photographic memory, but just because you don't have one doesn't mean you have to deny it exists and that everybody has to study real hard. It's like you being short and denying that people over 7 feet tall exist. Rare yes, but they do exist.

Wow, you really seem to have issues with this. I didn't mean to upset you to such a degree. I'm sorry you feel like you have something to prove. No one denied that people with "photographic" memories exist. Even those with photographic memories and high IQ's study. Sure they may achieve a 100% on an exam in which the class average was a 78%. They may have studied as much as the next person but they STILL STUDIED.What I and others have a tough time believing is your claim or implication that someone studies a few hours total and aces an exam. Even those with high IQ's work hard. They may study less than others but the pre-med tale of a person studying his notes an hour before an exam and just "getting lucky" and acing it is pure bunk. I can't help that you are so naive to still believe such nonsense. You would think someone who has gotten through medical school would have finally caught on to the act. It seems like the only people who believe such tales are those who want to believe them. Look just admit that you were not as disciplined or didn't study enough. You don't need to spin tales or believe such tall tales to justify why you couldn't score as high on an exam. I have known a lot people who made such claims and then saw them study in private. I didn't need to stalk them to gather this information. I simply didn't take their word at face value like you did. Maybe you "saw" someone never study, and then again maybe you didn't know the entire story behind the person who made such claims? Did that ever cross your mind or do you believe everything someone tells you ?

That's all I really have to say on this matter; feel free to have the last word. It's obvious you have issues with this so I have a feeling you need to have the last word

 

[Bo Hurley]

Wow, you really seem to have issues with this.

I'm not the one who stalked someone in the library to find out their study habits.

No one denied that people with "photographic" memories exist.

You did.

What I and others have a tough time believing is your claim or implication that someone studies a few hours total and aces an exam.

You're projecting. What "others"? It seems that it is mainly you who is frustrated by people smarter than you.

Even those with high IQ's work hard.

Where did I ever say anything about "IQ"?

They may study less than others but the pre-med tale of a person studying his notes an hour before an exam and just "getting lucky" and acing it is pure bunk.

It has nothing to do with "luck".

I can't help that you are so naive to still believe such nonsense

Seeing is believing.

You would think someone who has gotten through medical school would have finally caught on to the act.

It's no "act". It's called a photographic memory.

Look just admit that you were not as disciplined or didn't study enough.

There you go getting agitated again. Maybe you just don't want to believe people can get better grades than you by studying a fraction of what you do.

You don't need to spin tales or believe such tall tales to justify why you couldn't score as high on an exam.

More frustration from you. You may be projecting again.

I have known a lot people who made such claims and then saw them study in private.

By "a lot" do you mean that one guy you stalked in the library?

I didn't need to stalk them to gather this information.

Did you have somebody else stalk them for you?

Did that ever cross your mind or do you believe everything someone tells you?

Seeing is believing.

It's obvious you have issues with this so I have a feeling you need to have the last word

Hey you're the one stalking people you're jealous of.

Pwned.

 

[tupac_don]

I won't argue that they don't exist, because I agree they do.
Genes do play a role no matter what you say.
But its definetly a rare thing.
Also it seems like when one student can be damn good at biochem (like Bo's roomate) often his skills in that field won't transcend to say, Poli Sci or something like that.
Not that it's a huge deal, just something I've noticed. Then again, there are those who can do it all so i'll tip my hat to those guys.

But the fact is, if student X builds good study techniques, and has a good education prior to college and another student goes to some piss poor school and, despite good grades, doesn't learn much...
Well you see what im driving at here..
Thats just one factor though in a pretty damn big equation, didn't see it posted just thought I'd throw it in.

Yea that is an excellent point. Older students particularly or I should say those with advanced background may appear as geniuses, b/c they get to build on knowledge that they have and things just fall into place quicker. Do you think that someone who was a PA and then goes to med school will pick things up faster? I think so. And yea I totally agree that some people are more built for certain things than others. I noticed that on the MCAT, I had to spend a lot more time on physics and verbal reasoning, whereas biology was very eazy, and I barely had to study for it. Also performing well academically even if you kill all your tests won't neccessarily make you a great doctor. So I think people should really despair or care how others are doing, b/c the backgrounds of people are so different. Also people get pissed off b/c someone is a gunner. COme on by definition, everyone in med school is a gunner. Med school is really an ultra competitive experience first of all to get in, than to get good grades, then USMLE scores, then residency placement. You are for the most part competing with the best of the best. Don't hate, incorporate.

 

[novacek88]

Yea that is an excellent point. Older students particularly or I should say those with advanced background may appear as geniuses, b/c they get to build on knowledge that they have and things just fall into place quicker. Do you think that someone who was a PA and then goes to med school will pick things up faster? I think so. And yea I totally agree that some people are more built for certain things than others. I noticed that on the MCAT, I had to spend a lot more time on physics and verbal reasoning, whereas biology was very eazy, and I barely had to study for it. Also performing well academically even if you kill all your tests won't neccessarily make you a great doctor. So I think people should really despair or care how others are doing, b/c the backgrounds of people are so different. Also people get pissed off b/c someone is a gunner. COme on by definition, everyone in med school is a gunner. Med school is really an ultra competitive experience first of all to get in, than to get good grades, then USMLE scores, then residency placement. You are for the most part competing with the best of the best. Don't hate, incorporate.

Great post

It depends how you define a gunner. I don't define a gunner as someone who is merely successful academically or studies a great deal. I define a gunner as someone who seeks to succeed at the expense of his or her classmates. That includes hiding resourses, pretending to be ignorant about sujbect matter and concealing how much he or she studies with the intent to mislead classmates for whatever reason.

You can study and be near the top of your class without having to be fake, not helpful and generally unapproachable.

 

[azcomdiddy]

I'm a gunner. I will admit it. I'm in the top 5% of my class and I used to study at least 6 hours a day and most days I average 8 hours. On days just prior to an exam, I study 10-14 hours. And when I study, I'm not relaxing and listening to musiic. I sit there and memorize and regurgitate. I sleep very little and I'm focused. People have asked me how I do it and I tell them what I will tell you: I have great stamina. After you have been studying like this for a while, you develop a certain level of stamina and it's not that difficult.

I'm sure there are folks who are naturally gifted but I personally don't know anyone who is in the top 5% that is just a great memorizer or a lateral thinker Maybe those people exist but not at my school. Some people think I downplay my intelligence but that's not true. I'm not any more intelligent than the next guy; I just choose to devote my time toward studying.

 

[azcomdiddy]

A lot of this "gunner" stuff just seems like sour grapes and envy. Some people don't want to accept that there are some very smart and gifted people out there (smarter than them) so they make up crap about them to make themselves feel better. You know the old saying "People believe what they want in order to protect their egos." Even if they are quiet and mind their own business, then you'll have people call them "closet gunners" and other junk. You just got to accept the fact that there are some people out there who are smarter than you, will study much less than you do, and still kick your butt on exams and on the wards.

Others are not wrong about closet gunners. I know some people who still play the "I got drunk last weekend" when we know they studied like 99.9% of the rest of the class that had an exam on Monday morning. And before you pyschoanalyze me and accuse me of being envious of these people, I should let you know I'm in the top 5% of my class and I scored over a 250 on Step I.

 

[typeB-md]

Others are not wrong about closet gunners. I know some people who still play the "I got drunk last weekend" when we know they studied like 99.9% of the rest of the class that had an exam on Monday morning. And before you pyschoanalyze me and accuse me of being envious of these people, I should let you know I'm in the top 5% of my class and I scored over a 250 on Step I.

what specialty?

 

[Bo Hurley]

I'm a gunner. I will admit it. I'm in the top 5% of my class and I used to study at least 6 hours a day and most days I average 8 hours. On days just prior to an exam, I study 10-14 hours. And when I study, I'm not relaxing and listening to musiic. I sit there and memorize and regurgitate. I sleep very little and I'm focused. People have asked me how I do it and I tell them what I will tell you: I have great stamina. After you have been studying like this for a while, you develop a certain level of stamina and it's not that difficult.

I'm sure there are folks who are naturally gifted but I personally don't know anyone who is in the top 5% that is just a great memorizer or a lateral thinker Maybe those people exist but not at my school. Some people think I downplay my intelligence but that's not true. I'm not any more intelligent than the next guy; I just choose to devote my time toward studying.

The description you've given is more of a nerd than a gunner.

 

[Bo Hurley]

Others are not wrong about closet gunners. I know some people who still play the "I got drunk last weekend" when we know they studied like 99.9% of the rest of the class that had an exam on Monday morning. And before you pyschoanalyze me and accuse me of being envious of these people, I should let you know I'm in the top 5% of my class and I scored over a 250 on Step I.

I never said that there weren't students who downplayed the amount of studying they did.

What I've said is that there are some people with photographic memories who can ace a test by reading over the material just once when the rest of us have to go over it multiple times. However some people (i.e. the novaceks of the world) are in denial about this in order to protect their egos and think the only way to get good grades is to study for hours on end. So they think that ANYBODY who gets great grades must be studying a lot or else they are lying about how much they study.

 

[dsblaha]

I never said that there weren't students who downplayed the amount of studying they did.

What I've said is that there are some people with photographic memories who can ace a test by reading over the material just once when the rest of us have to go over it multiple times. However some people (i.e. the novaceks of the world) are in denial about this in order to protect their egos and think the only way to get good grades is to study for hours on end. So they think that ANYBODY who gets great grades must be studying a lot or else they are lying about how much they study.

Personally, I can accept that people are smarter than me. I would find it much more damaging to my ego to know that somebody worked harder than me. I also accept that sometimes you make decisions not to study and it is reasonable to expect your grades to suffer because of it. You have to decide what is more important.

I have yet to come across someone in med school who doesn't work hard, whether they get good grades or not.

 

[gschl1234]

I'm a gunner. I will admit it. I'm in the top 5% of my class and I used to study at least 6 hours a day and most days I average 8 hours. On days just prior to an exam, I study 10-14 hours. And when I study, I'm not relaxing and listening to musiic. I sit there and memorize and regurgitate. I sleep very little and I'm focused. People have asked me how I do it and I tell them what I will tell you: I have great stamina. After you have been studying like this for a while, you develop a certain level of stamina and it's not that difficult.

I'm sure there are folks who are naturally gifted but I personally don't know anyone who is in the top 5% that is just a great memorizer or a lateral thinker Maybe those people exist but not at my school. Some people think I downplay my intelligence but that's not true. I'm not any more intelligent than the next guy; I just choose to devote my time toward studying.

Wow. Did you skip class to study or did you do all this studying in addition to attending most classes?

 

[burton117]

Dictionary.com Definition of a "Gunner"

1) A member of the armed forces who operates a gun.
2) A warrant officer in the U.S. Marine Corps having charge of ordnance.
3) Chiefly British. An artillery soldier, especially a private.
4) One who hunts with a gun.