What is next for me?

[JDsfloatingheadDr]

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[OrdinaryDO]

I can't give you an in-depth analysis like you want, but I can give you my perspective on your situation.

I am a big proponent on building off of a good foundation - in any case, for me, the foundation is your GPA and MCAT score. Then, move to the next most important improvement - for me, this would be the clinical experience and/or research. I suppose if you have more layers to add on to this idea then you can just keep going. In my opinion, your GPA and MCAT are the single most important factors that will stick out as the ADCOMs sift through the thousands of applicants. I am not saying this is the MOST important as far as being accepted, but if you have a very ugly GPA and/or MCAT score, then odds are they will go ahead and just skip over you for now and maybe come back later. So, that is all I can say on this matter. My cutoff for DO school, and this is only MY opinion, is a 3.2 min. cGPA and 500 min. MCAT (individually, not a 3.2 WITH a 500, that probably won't work too well).

 

[Philotic]

Hey JD,

Thanks for sharing your story with us. It seems like you're on the up-and-up, having climbed out of the hole that you dug for yourself early in your career. There are many underdog stories here on SDN (myself being one of them--though maybe not to the degree of yours), but anyone who gives you advice can only tell you about their story and you draw the parallels and decide what to believe. Here's my humble opinion:

I would recommend doing a DIY post-bacc with upper level science classes while you work (preferably in some kind of medical field). There are some universities that will have tuition benefits (ie if you work full time you can take x amount of classes for free), and that's always a good option if you want to save up some money while showing schools you can succeed with time management and graded work. I did this for the past 3.5 years (will be done in May, and matriculating to PCOM-PA) and though it was difficult, I feel that it was a benefit to me because I was able to be financially independent. It seems to me that you are already doing much better grade-wise (and have had this pattern for quite a while now), so I'm not sure being in a formal program would add any legitimacy to it. Also, because you've already taken a large number of classes, you have to realize that getting extra A's won't affect your GPA too much, so there's a cap to what more school would do for you. I don't think there's a definite answer either way, but do some research and see what's the best fit for you. In either case, it might be best to try to raise your overall GPA and sGPA to >3.25, if possible. If it takes more than a year, then that's something you can think about as well. I would absolutely not rush it, especially if there's a danger of you becoming a reapplicant.

Along those lines, I think it's important to figure out just how long you are willing to wait/sacrifice for this dream of yours. Being "in transition" between really going to med school and being between stages of your life (when the people around you are settling in to adulthood) are tough--not knowing with certainty what is going to happen is really scary (at least for me)! You need to make a timeline (aka set a deadline) for yourself to when you believe it will be the optimal time for you to apply (aka when your GPA is >x and when your MCAT is >y). Don't apply before you reach those personal goals because you want to be the best applicant you can be just one time. For me personally, I knew that I wanted to work no more than 4 years, but I also knew that I would need more than 2 years to boost my GPA to acceptable levels. I didn't apply until my 3rd year of work, and at this point, I was happy with where I was (I am not particularly smart, but just persistent haha). I think that with your most recent years of academic success, you don't necessarily have to wait as long, but research some of the schools you are interested in, find their averages, and see where you fit in. If you're academically weak in comparison, take time to work on that. If you're in the middle of the pack, think about what you can do in other aspects to strengthen your application.

Following that thought, I personally believe it's important to shadow a DO and get a letter of recommendation from them. This is required by some schools (optional at others), but I found it enlightening and most importantly, fun! Also find/continue volunteering work. Nothing makes you a more well-rounded candidate than when you can tell people "I saw medicine from all these perspectives." It will show your dedication to not only your academics but to a life of service.

Lastly, I'm not sure what a 501 MCAT translates to in the old 45 point system, but many DO schools have MCAT averages around 27-29, and it wouldn't hurt to be at least there or above it for some cushion. If your score translates around the average, I wouldn't necessarily recommend taking the MCAT again (just the thought of re-taking the MCAT makes me shudder--you might be fine with this) unless you feel that you can improve significantly to put yourself in a different percentile. If you're below this average, then I would recommend studying and re-taking. Again, it's all about setting yourself to be the best applicant just once, so even if it takes longer, the payout will be greater if you only have to go through the entire process once!

Again, these are just my opinions! Honestly, who knows what actually goes on in those admissions committee rooms where our futures are decided....😵

Best of luck!
Philotic

 

[JDsfloatingheadDr]

I can't give you an in-depth analysis like you want, but I can give you my perspective on your situation.

I am a big proponent on building off of a good foundation - in any case, for me, the foundation is your GPA and MCAT score. Then, move to the next most important improvement - for me, this would be the clinical experience and/or research. I suppose if you have more layers to add on to this idea then you can just keep going. In my opinion, your GPA and MCAT are the single most important factors that will stick out as the ADCOMs sift through the thousands of applicants. I am not saying this is the MOST important as far as being accepted, but if you have a very ugly GPA and/or MCAT score, then odds are they will go ahead and just skip over you for now and maybe come back later. So, that is all I can say on this matter. My cutoff for DO school, and this is only MY opinion, is a 3.2 min. cGPA and 500 min. MCAT (individually, not a 3.2 WITH a 500, that probably won't work too well).

Thank you for taking the time to reply OrdinaryDO. I agree with your assessment, it is my understanding is that it is GPA and MCAT that get your application looked at and experiential activities that set you apart from the rest. I'm fairly confident I can raise my MCAT as I took it before taking any biochem and I know there are clinical research opportunities out there for me if I decide to take the year off and then apply. I want to think since I have shown so much improvement maybe schools will be willing to look past my lowish GPA.

 

[JDsfloatingheadDr]

Hey JD,

Thanks for sharing your story with us. It seems like you're on the up-and-up, having climbed out of the hole that you dug for yourself early in your career. There are many underdog stories here on SDN (myself being one of them--though maybe not to the degree of yours), but anyone who gives you advice can only tell you about their story and you draw the parallels and decide what to believe. Here's my humble opinion:

I would recommend doing a DIY post-bacc with upper level science classes while you work (preferably in some kind of medical field). There are some universities that will have tuition benefits (ie if you work full time you can take x amount of classes for free), and that's always a good option if you want to save up some money while showing schools you can succeed with time management and graded work. I did this for the past 3.5 years (will be done in May, and matriculating to PCOM-PA) and though it was difficult, I feel that it was a benefit to me because I was able to be financially independent. It seems to me that you are already doing much better grade-wise (and have had this pattern for quite a while now), so I'm not sure being in a formal program would add any legitimacy to it. Also, because you've already taken a large number of classes, you have to realize that getting extra A's won't affect your GPA too much, so there's a cap to what more school would do for you. I don't think there's a definite answer either way, but do some research and see what's the best fit for you. In either case, it might be best to try to raise your overall GPA and sGPA to >3.25, if possible. If it takes more than a year, then that's something you can think about as well. I would absolutely not rush it, especially if there's a danger of you becoming a reapplicant.

Along those lines, I think it's important to figure out just how long you are willing to wait/sacrifice for this dream of yours. Being "in transition" between really going to med school and being between stages of your life (when the people around you are settling in to adulthood) are tough--not knowing with certainty what is going to happen is really scary (at least for me)! You need to make a timeline (aka set a deadline) for yourself to when you believe it will be the optimal time for you to apply (aka when your GPA is >x and when your MCAT is >y). Don't apply before you reach those personal goals because you want to be the best applicant you can be just one time. For me personally, I knew that I wanted to work no more than 4 years, but I also knew that I would need more than 2 years to boost my GPA to acceptable levels. I didn't apply until my 3rd year of work, and at this point, I was happy with where I was (I am not particularly smart, but just persistent haha). I think that with your most recent years of academic success, you don't necessarily have to wait as long, but research some of the schools you are interested in, find their averages, and see where you fit in. If you're academically weak in comparison, take time to work on that. If you're in the middle of the pack, think about what you can do in other aspects to strengthen your application.

Following that thought, I personally believe it's important to shadow a DO and get a letter of recommendation from them. This is required by some schools (optional at others), but I found it enlightening and most importantly, fun! Also find/continue volunteering work. Nothing makes you a more well-rounded candidate than when you can tell people "I saw medicine from all these perspectives." It will show your dedication to not only your academics but to a life of service.

Lastly, I'm not sure what a 501 MCAT translates to in the old 45 point system, but many DO schools have MCAT averages around 27-29, and it wouldn't hurt to be at least there or above it for some cushion. If your score translates around the average, I wouldn't necessarily recommend taking the MCAT again (just the thought of re-taking the MCAT makes me shudder--you might be fine with this) unless you feel that you can improve significantly to put yourself in a different percentile. If you're below this average, then I would recommend studying and re-taking. Again, it's all about setting yourself to be the best applicant just once, so even if it takes longer, the payout will be greater if you only have to go through the entire process once!

Again, these are just my opinions! Honestly, who knows what actually goes on in those admissions committee rooms where our futures are decided....😵

Best of luck!
Philotic

Thank you for your detailed response Philotic, you really hit the nail on the head with your response. Also, congratulations on everything working out for you. You seem to have put in the work and are now enjoying the fruits of your labor, wishing you all the best at PCOM.

In terms of grades I have almost 2-3 years of solid course work and grades that I am proud of and better reflect the kind of student that I am. I guess it really depends on how admissions committee's are going to interpret my improvement. I think the benefit of doing the masters is just more proof that I can handle med school curriculum even though it may not necessarily improve my GPA a whole lot. I guess it just shows how much I really want it.

Your post regarding the time I'm willing to wait between undergrad and med school really got me thinking..just thinking about that limbo period is quite scary. I am so used to being in school I don't know what life is like without it.

I absolutely will do my due diligence in terms of gaining some sort of exposure into osteopathic medicine. I think the admissions committee will be appreciative of that.

There are a few masters programs out there that I'm interested in, including Touro California's MSMHS, the Tufts MBS and Case Western's MSMP. Could anyone share some insights about these programs, judging from what they have posted on their websites I think I could potentially be a good fit for any of them.

Thanks again for your time.

 

[austintr]

Although I can't really comment on any of those programs, I will say that the above advice is very good. One thing I would consider is using your position as a way to show an increase in maturity and ability to look introspectively at your goals and how to get there. This will be key when you interview, because I would guess that adcoms are interested in mature, thoughtful, well-rounded students. I doubt you will have many issues in interviews if you speak as well as you communicate in writing. One thing I would recommend (just my own 0.02, I won't be applying until this upcoming cycle) is to try and diversify your experiences, i.e different clinical areas/jobs, solid shadowing, and definitely some volunteer work. Some of the more astute members of SDN consistently promote clinical and non-clinical volunteering, if at all possible. I think that if you can bump up that GPA just a bit, apply as early in your chosen cycle as possible, and to as many schools as you could see yourself attending, you would stand a fair chance without necessarily having to take the MCAT. Philotic has a good point with assessing your timeline and what it will take to make a solid first-run application, but keep in mind that admission to DO schools is getting more competitive every year. So if you're looking out past next cycle, your application will definitely need to become more competitive and unique as time goes by. Good luck!