What is SGU's current WMPG pass percentage?

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For anyone in the real world look at the data argus is showing you....the green bars...means they didnt match, idk about you but when "matched" bar and the green "unmatched" bar are at the same level (for almost everything but family med or maybe anesthesiology) or the unmatched bar is higher I don't like taking those chances thats me though I don't like to act on hopes and prayers i like facts and stability

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For anyone in the real world look at the data argus is showing you....the green bars...means they didnt match, idk about you but when "matched" bar and the green "unmatched" bar are at the same level (for almost everything but family med or maybe anesthesiology) or the unmatched bar is higher I don't like taking those chances thats me though I don't like to act on hopes and prayers i like facts and stability

Thank you for pointing that out. I actually read his last post and it made no sense at all.

Bottom line: Caribbean is a crapshoot
 
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Please note that the argus really does make a good point you can match over 90% of the time from the Caribbean!....if you're willing to wait two years, pray, do SOAP twice, have excellent board scores with a std of +10pts (most specialties require at least that to match as a IMG...something argus ALWAYS fails to mention in his NRMP posts), no problems in your rotations, and basically be a candidate from Harvard but from the Caribbean, and then maybe get the random residency out in Wyoming......but please go for it!

This n=1 has to stop, the Caribbean is risky we all know this, and its unfortunate that people like the argus prop it up to be this magnificent alternative. I give him/her credit they made it through and congrats to that but again I personally wouldn't want to wait 2 years AFTER i graduated to start my residency in something like psych which I have no interest in. Remember Caribbean grads match into their first choice but thats because they have changed their first choice from IM in their home state for example like in Pennsylvania, to IM in Alaska, or psych in Georgia its a victory all around but you are limiting yourself and with all the effort and time put in wouldn't you want to be happy with the outcome. I know being a psych isnt something I want to do....if thats you then you're good to go if not then see what you can do in the US first.

Oh great another premed on this forum trying to give advise on medical schools. Love when that happens. Why don't you get in somewhere first before telling everyone what to do?

At least Argus is offering his opinion as someone who completed medical school and started residency from the Caribbean, which is valuable insight, as I'm sure he knows numerous people who stumbled along the way whether in preclinical or clinical years. I also think you need a primer on what standard deviations are. In no way do you need a standard deviation of 10 above the U.S. mean to match.

Not only that, but it is blatantly untrue that you need to go somewhere rural in order to match from the Caribbean. If you look at the match lists from SGU, most people match to big IMG friendly cities like New York, or states like New Jersey.
 
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Oh great another premed on this forum trying to give advise on medical schools. Love when that happens. Why don't you get in somewhere first before telling everyone what to do?

At least Argus is offering his opinion as someone who completed medical school and started residency from the Caribbean, which is valuable insight, as I'm sure he knows numerous people who stumbled along the way whether in preclinical or clinical years. I also think you need a primer on what standard deviations are. In no way do you need a standard deviation of 10 above the U.S. mean to match.

Not only that, but it is blatantly untrue that you need to go somewhere rural in order to match from the Caribbean. If you look at the match lists from SGU, most people match to big IMG friendly cities like New York, or states like New Jersey.


I'm actually finishing my first year of Medical School in the US and i researched these schools extensively......you go to a Caribbean school don't you?
 
Typical of a Caribbean student lashing out when we present the inadequacy in the facts they fell for....ehh to each their own

also its spelled ADVICE not advise......

What I don't get is, nobody here is arguing that you CAN'T match from the Caribbean. We all know people are but STATISTICALLY it just does not look good; it looks scary actually. How there are people on here casually arguing that the Caribbean is a viable route just because they succeeded is beyond me. IT'S A GIANT RISK!!! They have you by the balls till you complete the program and the program is not easy at all. I'm sorry but that is just no way to approach your future professional career and it's not the type of stress that the average person can handle. People do succeed but they are not the average student at these schools like I have been saying all along. I'm sure every person who gets their acceptance thinks they are going to get straight A's and make it through and become a doctor. That's just not going to happen. I mean studying for anatomy, biochem, and histology is one thing and then systems-based path, physio, and pharm is quite another. You can memorize the former but you must integrate the latter. NOT EVERYBODY CAN DO THAT and especially those who have lower stats and terrible test-taking skills. It's just a big trap. The US schools accept the academics who can do it, the Caribbean schools accept some academics but mostly people who have only demonstrated the desire to become doctors. They are two different groups.

Here's where the problem with all of this, people are focusing on the match list. You are not focusing on how many people did not make it out of the program and match. We don't have a number for that because the school would never publish those stats. If you were to look at that number, the match list would look quite depressing.
 
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I'm actually finishing my first year of Medical School in the US and i researched these schools extensively......you go to a Caribbean school don't you?

Nope. I'm an MS2 at UQ-Ochsner in Australia.

Didn't realize you were a medical student but that still does not make you an authority on Caribbean schools when there are people here who actually went through the program and can offer insight. Argus isn't getting kickbacks for sending people to Caribbean schools. He's simply offering his opinion as someone who graduated, using numbers to back his points up.
 
What I don't get is, nobody here is arguing that you CAN'T match from the Caribbean. We all know people are but STATISTICALLY it just does not look good; it looks scary actually. How there are people on here casually arguing that the Caribbean is a viable route just because they succeeded is beyond me. IT'S A GIANT RISK!!! They have you by the balls till you complete the program and the program is not easy at all. I'm sorry but that is just no way to approach your future professional career and it's not the type of stress that the average person can handle. People do succeed but they are not the average student at these schools like I have been saying all along. I'm sure every person who gets their acceptance thinks they are going to get straight A's and make it through and become a doctor. That's just not going to happen. I mean studying for anatomy, biochem, and histology is one thing and then systems-based path, physio, and pharm is quite another. You can memorize the former but you must integrate the latter. NOT EVERYBODY CAN DO THAT and especially those who have lower stats and terrible test-taking skills. It's just a big trap. The US schools accept the academics who can do it, the Caribbean schools accept some academics but mostly people who have only demonstrated the desire to become doctors. They are two different groups.

Here's where the problem with all of this, people are focusing on the match list. You are not focusing on how many people did not make it out of the program and match. We don't have a number for that because the school would never publish those stats. If you were to look at that number, the match list would look quite depressing.

You can see or ask an SGU / Ross student how big their starting class is. Then you can see the match list and compare for yourself. Well over 50% of the starting class matches first round. My class was probably around 70% start to match and most people fail out the first year.

People focus on the match list because that is the raw data lol.... You argue that carib is such a huge risk but claim that anyone who succeeds is some type of anomaly. I think it is unfair to lump SGU / Ross with lower caliber carib schools. There are many out there with the sole purpose of stealing money I completely agree. Why do you think people who get to carib schools assume they will make all A's and automatically become a doctor? What planet does that exist on?? Even kids going to harvard shouldn't think that. It takes hard work and effort. You are right carib schools take advantage of the competitive nature of the american system. More people fail because the caliber of student is lower. That shouldn't shock anyone. Everyone is different and not everyone struggles in college because they are dumb. Many people have a lot of stuff going on or don't mature in time, etc etc. I failed out of college but I would destroy it if I could go back.

Anyway, I guess my story will be disregarded as a fluke or anomaly but I matched into my #1 university IM program that is 90% AMG.
 
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Not a fluke. Happy that you matched. The match data is the end result. There is no data from the first day a student steps on the campus till the match in four years. That, to me, is very troubling. It's not something I thought about before I applied. I only realized all of that after the fact. A lot of people are missing the argument here. It's not about the story of some students, or as you say the 50%, that match first round. We're actually very happy for you guys. It's about those students that don't make it and are not accounted for; they are part of the journey too. That # however is MUCH higher than people like yourself that do succeed. So it's great to tell your story to a prospective student but at the same time there are probably ten other students for each successful student who would say to "watch out" before heading down that route.

To add to this, I agree it's not fair to lump SGU and maybe Ross to these other schools because SGU at least has all of the resources in place to help the best students succeed.
I wouldn't say the caliber of student is lower at MUA than it is at SGU. There are plenty of students who go to MUA because they can't afford SGU. It's not like SGU has the best US rejects and MUA has the second or third best. It's all relative. IMG is IMG. All these schools are the same on the most basic level. But they operate differently. MUA weeds people out with semester loads of 30-34 credit hours with 90% attendance. SGU has a more reasonable load without the mandatory attendance but has a higher minimum passing score. My best friend went to SGU when I went to MUA, I have all of his files including the SGU Mac Daddy files. Some of the slides are even IDENTICAL but all of the information is the same. So you see, it's not that an SGU student is somehow any better or of a different caliber, it's more about if you are able to pass either program, what does that school have in place when it comes time for clinicals and beyond? I honestly believe the MUA guy with a 260 is disadvantaged when compared to the SGU guy with a 240. SGU wins here and the other schools fail. My argument is that I would be 100% cautious with going to the Caribbean regardless. If you feel that the Caribbean is YOUR ONLY option to becoming a doctor, I would agree that SGU and maybe Ross are proven options for the right student.
 
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What I don't get is, nobody here is arguing that you CAN'T match from the Caribbean. We all know people are but STATISTICALLY it just does not look good; it looks scary actually. How there are people on here casually arguing that the Caribbean is a viable route just because they succeeded is beyond me. IT'S A GIANT RISK!!! They have you by the balls till you complete the program and the program is not easy at all. I'm sorry but that is just no way to approach your future professional career and it's not the type of stress that the average person can handle. People do succeed but they are not the average student at these schools like I have been saying all along. I'm sure every person who gets their acceptance thinks they are going to get straight A's and make it through and become a doctor. That's just not going to happen. I mean studying for anatomy, biochem, and histology is one thing and then systems-based path, physio, and pharm is quite another. You can memorize the former but you must integrate the latter. NOT EVERYBODY CAN DO THAT and especially those who have lower stats and terrible test-taking skills. It's just a big trap. The US schools accept the academics who can do it, the Caribbean schools accept some academics but mostly people who have only demonstrated the desire to become doctors. They are two different groups.

Here's where the problem with all of this, people are focusing on the match list. You are not focusing on how many people did not make it out of the program and match. We don't have a number for that because the school would never publish those stats. If you were to look at that number, the match list would look quite depressing.

Again, you are categorically wrong. Statistically you are more likely to graduate and Match than not from SGU and Ross. You are claiming to have the data on your side when you have been shown time and time again to be incorrect. I'm not claiming that it's not a risk, and I've been vocally critical of my own graduating institution because of that fact. Also, what's "scary" depends a lot on each person's individual risk, which is why it's important to have a thorough and realistic expectation for what you're getting into when you go to the Caribbean. But it is not the metaphorical roulette wheel that you're making it out to be. There are lots of good reasons to avoid going to a Caribbean medical school but your arguments are not among them.
 
They need to weed out students because their corporate overlords couldn't afford to bribe enough hospitals around the US for MS3 clinical rotation spots... so they only have enough space for like half the MS1 class size.


So the idea is...take as much money as you can from as many people as you can during MS1+MS2, but cut enough of the crappier students so that they can find the better ones clinical spots. They still get the MS1+2 money from the crappier students who could never pass the steps anyway, which is many thousands of dollars.

It's really not that hard to figure out and has been discussed ad nauseam on this forum.

Laughably untrue. SGU and Ross have contracts with hospitals that guarantee them clinical positions for their MS3 and MS4 students upon acceptance. This is a tired argument from the 90's that is refuted with a 10 second google search.
 
Again, you are categorically wrong. Statistically you are more likely to graduate and Match than not from SGU and Ross. You are claiming to have the data on your side when you have been shown time and time again to be incorrect. I'm not claiming that it's not a risk, and I've been vocally critical of my own graduating institution because of that fact. Also, what's "scary" depends a lot on each person's individual risk, which is why it's important to have a thorough and realistic expectation for what you're getting into when you go to the Caribbean. But it is not the metaphorical roulette wheel that you're making it out to be. There are lots of good reasons to avoid going to a Caribbean medical school but your arguments are not among them.

Look you're going to have your bias, I'm going to have my bias. Truth is people succeed and match and people don't succeed. We advocate for both sides. I don't recall trying to discredit your side but you and some of your buddies continually attack my position. The day attrition falls into the single digits at these schools, is when I'll stop arguing my side.
 
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I know a Lotto winner too. But I wouldn't use that as a strategy to prepare for retirement income.

Cue the Lotto winners to come in sputtering ..."but but, NRMP!"

If the Match is synonymous with a lottery, then I can't wait to play the mega millions and contiguously rank the 300M jackpot soon!


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
Look you're going to have your bias, I'm going to have my bias. Truth is people succeed and match and people don't succeed. We advocate for both sides. I don't recall trying to discredit your side but you and some of your buddies continually attack my position. The day attrition falls into the single digits at these schools, is when I'll stop arguing my side.

False information is not bias. Advocating for a position with false info is incredibly disingenuous. Trying to shift focus to attrition is a cheap attempt at moving the goalposts.
 
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False information is not bias. Advocating for a position with false info is incredibly disingenuous. Trying to shift focus to attrition is a cheap attempt at moving the goalposts.

I don't think we're speaking the same language my friend. In case you live under a rock, attrition is a MAJOR issue worth discussing when dealing with Caribbean schools. The school never gives you the correct number. It's the students that report from the inside about the inner workings of these for-profit schools. If you're a resident, then explain to me how I have SGU residents at my hospital telling me that it's not worth it? Those are your colleagues dude.

But feel free to go ahead and lead the unassuming pre-med into the Caribbean trap without fair warning and tell them just to work hard. When they fail pathophysiology in term four at SGU by 0.1 point, then you can explain to them why exactly that happened.

As for me, I will continue to advocate that the Caribbean is a very risky route to take and I will advise any prospective student to think long and hard about the decision they are about to make based on what I have observed.
 
Laughably untrue. SGU and Ross have contracts with hospitals that guarantee them clinical positions for their MS3 and MS4 students upon acceptance. This is a tired argument from the 90's that is refuted with a 10 second google search.

Be careful how you word this man. Yeah SGU has like a 100 million dollar contract with some NYC hospitals but the post you are replying to is not arguing that. They were saying that the school weeds out MS1 and MS2 students because they DO NOT have enough clinical spots for ALL OF THOSE STUDENTS that start from term 1...which is true.

SGU might have spots for the MS3 and MS4 students but that's not we're arguing.

Produce a document stating that SGU has enough clinical spots for ALL of its students if that was what you were getting at.
 
Laughably untrue. SGU and Ross have contracts with hospitals that guarantee them clinical positions for their MS3 and MS4 students upon acceptance. This is a tired argument from the 90's that is refuted with a 10 second google search.

Thats exactly what i said. They have contracts with various hospitals, most if which have received large donations from thosr schools parent companies.

The part about thwre not being enough M3 spots to cover every student in M1 is true as far as i know...at least its a notion that has been posted by Adcoms on this board before, iirc. If its not true, then i apologize
 
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These threads are like open wounds that won't heal. The bottom line is that Carib schools (especially Med Schools) are a mixed bag. Calling them "a scam" or "a waste" is ridiculous. Saying that they are "equivalent to US schools" is also untrue:

1. They accept people who cannot get into a US medical school. Whether you see this as "giving deserving people who messed up their GPA / can't do well on the MCAT a second chance" or "leeching tuition off of desperate students who can't get into US medical schools" depends on how you view the situation.

2. Top performers in Carib schools will do fine, and be able to get mid-competitive fields /spots. Anesthesia, EM, Rads, University IM, etc. Ortho/NS/Vascular/Derm is very unlikely even for the top performers, and usually requires years of research and/or connections.

3. Middle performers will also do fine, but often end up in FM / Community IM / peds / Psych / Neuro. Nothing wrong with those fields, but those attending Carib schools should understand that their choices may be limited.

4. Those at the bottom of their class, failing a class, or worse failing a step, often have much more problems. Students retake, pass, and then think everything will be OK, and it might not be. These students might still match, but it's much harder.

5. A reasonable percentage of all students starting in carib schools fail out in the first 2 years. Exactly how high that percentage is, is unclear. It clearly varies by school. Some see this as "The school takes more students than it has clinical spots for, and then fails them out to make more money". Others see it as "These schools know that some percentage of students will fail out. Rather than leave clinical spots empty, they take enough pre-clinical students so that their clinical spots are filled -- this offers the maximum number of students an opportunity to be a physician". The crux is whether the pass level is adjusted specifically to fail out people, or whether it's set at some reasonable benchmark and some people happen to fail.

The other part of this discussion usually revolves around "Well, the school takes people with very low MCAT's and then they fail out -- it's a scam and they should have a higher MCAT cutoff". Data from the LCME shows that lower MCAT scores tend to be associated with failing the USMLE. But population statistics don't tell you how any one person will do -- some people with low MCAT's do just fine. So, again, how you interpret this depends upon how you look at it.

6. If you fail out of med school, or can't match to a residency, you really have limited options. A partial MD is of no value. An MD without a residency is also of very limited value, especially an international degree. People talk about "consulting", but I've never seen that actually happen. There are several stories of people getting jobs working for insurance companies, or state disability office, etc. These positions don't pay well, but at least they are something and might qualify for PSLF.

7. If you fail out of school, or can't find a residency because of poor performance, your loans are non-dischargable. Paying them off is very difficult. PSLF or "extreme hardship" may be able to discharge them after 10+ years. if you have a cosigner, they are on the hook just as much as you.

8. US med schools have increased their class size. Residency spots are also increasing slowly. So far, it hasn't been a problem. It may be that as time goes forward, that IMG's will have further trouble getting even IM and FM spots and the change might happen between the time you matriculate and graduate. But, the opposite might be true also -- spots might grow at a higher rate than students.

So: Going to a Carib school is an uphill process. You need to work harder and be better than your US colleagues to do "equally" well. Carib schools often tout their successes, and ignore the students who never make it to graduation, are only able to get a prelim spot, or not match at all. Yet, at the better carib schools, the majority of students probably succeed (again, difficult to say due to lack of transparency), mainly in the primary care fields. Advertising from these schools (on their websites) doesn't do a great job of balancing these risks and benefits. Threads on SDN tend to tout only the negatives. So perhaps we're even?
 
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Wow, that is the best summary for all these Carib vs USMD threads. That needs to have a sticky so we don't just keep rehashing the same crap over and over again with different people.

Thanks for keeping it real @aProgDirector!
 
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Be careful how you word this man. Yeah SGU has like a 100 million dollar contract with some NYC hospitals but the post you are replying to is not arguing that. They were saying that the school weeds out MS1 and MS2 students because they DO NOT have enough clinical spots for ALL OF THOSE STUDENTS that start from term 1...which is true.

SGU might have spots for the MS3 and MS4 students but that's not we're arguing.

Produce a document stating that SGU has enough clinical spots for ALL of its students if that was what you were getting at.

Why is the burden of proof on me? You're talking out of your ass with a clear ax to grind against the school, and I'm speaking from direct experience. Find me an SGU or Ross student that, since the schools implemented this policy, was not placed in a clinical spot due to unavailability. These aren't "donations" as @pseud0 stated, they are contracts. They are legal agreements with clear aforementioned ramifications for breaching them. Clinical placement is secured upon matriculation into the program (pending successful completion of MS1, and Ms2, of course), not upon reaching M3. You're arguing as if these middling details don't matter when they are actually really important. The details of this agreement are clearly stated in the acceptance letter. This is not some backroom deal brokered over cigars and bourbon by mustachioed men wearing monocles.

I don't think we're speaking the same language my friend. In case you live under a rock, attrition is a MAJOR issue worth discussing when dealing with Caribbean schools. The school never gives you the correct number. It's the students that report from the inside about the inner workings of these for-profit schools.

Except for when those students report data that doesn't reinforce your false narrative, right? Because in case you missed it, I'm a former SGU student who was involved in school administration, successfully graduated without issue and secured a great residency, and now works with hospital administration in a program that recruits heavily from Caribbean and foreign medical schools. I'm far from an expert, and don't claim to be, but I also didn't just start googling stuff and call it "research," either. I'm reporting to you that you are wrong.

If you're a resident, then explain to me how I have SGU residents at my hospital telling me that it's not worth it? Those are your colleagues dude.

Are you serious? Find me an overworked sleep-deprived resident (or an attending for that matter!) that doesn't say that medical school isn't worth it. We're all drama queens when it comes to valuing our professional selves. 50% of doctors claim they wouldn't choose medicine again as a career. This is an anecdote, not a statistic.

But feel free to go ahead and lead the unassuming pre-med into the Caribbean trap without fair warning and tell them just to work hard. When they fail pathophysiology in term four at SGU by 0.1 point, then you can explain to them why exactly that happened.

As for me, I will continue to advocate that the Caribbean is a very risky route to take and I will advise any prospective student to think long and hard about the decision they are about to make based on what I have observed.

Clearly you haven't been following these forums for very long then, because I've been a pretty vocal critic of my own school and Caribbean med education in general since I joined these forums some 5 years ago. But of course you don't want to hear that nuance, because it doesn't fit this black/white paradigm that you seem so interested in peddling.
 
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Why is the burden of proof on me? You're talking out of your ass with a clear ax to grind against the school, and I'm speaking from direct experience. Find me an SGU or Ross student that, since the schools implemented this policy, was not placed in a clinical spot due to unavailability. These aren't "donations" as @pseud0 stated, they are contracts. They are legal agreements with clear aforementioned ramifications for breaching them. Clinical placement is secured upon matriculation into the program (pending successful completion of MS1, and Ms2, of course), not upon reaching M3. You're arguing as if these middling details don't matter when they are actually really important. The details of this agreement are clearly stated in the acceptance letter. This is not some backroom deal brokered over cigars and bourbon by mustachioed men wearing monocles.
C'mon man wake up, they can say "pending" or use any amount of colorful language but they will weed you out of basic sciences so when they say "pending" it sounds like it's on you the student but you could give 100% and still be victim to the weed out process. I will agree that SGU probably has spots for all the third-year students unlike lesser Caribbean schools. I've looked at their clinical centers and all of their locations and it is impressive. I have no axe to grind with SGU. If you read my other post, I am actually working on reapplying to SGU in the future and I hope to succeed there. Only this time I have more experience than the average incoming applicant regarding what is expected of me as a Caribbean medical student.


Except for when those students report data that doesn't reinforce your false narrative, right? Because in case you missed it, I'm a former SGU student who was involved in school administration, successfully graduated without issue and secured a great residency, and now works with hospital administration in a program that recruits heavily from Caribbean and foreign medical schools. I'm far from an expert, and don't claim to be, but I also didn't just start googling stuff and call it "research," either. I'm reporting to you that you are wrong. You make it sound like you know how things work behind the scenes over at SGU. I don't doubt that you might have "worked" with some people but I highly doubt they shared all the inner workings with you. I can't produce a document or a voice recording but I have heard from my sources that a professor in Grenada told the students in one of the undergraduate programs that administration says "don't pass everyone from pre-med to term 1" as encouragement for their upcoming exam. Sure it's pre-med but it's still SGU and it says a lot. Notice, I am not speaking or criticizing anything about SGU regarding third and fourth year and beyond. My issue with SGU and the whole Caribbean system for that matter is what is happening during basic sciences and the admissions process. Every one of these schools is working with figure "X" which represents clinical positions. Clinical positions are less than the incoming first term class and I believe they can even fluctuate considerably. I'm even saying SGU is more fair in this regard compared to the lesser schools. But you can't argue that if SGU is taking 1000 students per term that SGU somehow has 2000 clinical spots for those students. If they do, produce a document and I will cease this discussion. Now of course this idea is much worse, if not scary, at a lesser school.



Are you serious? Find me an overworked sleep-deprived resident (or an attending for that matter!) that doesn't say that medical school isn't worth it. We're all drama queens when it comes to valuing our professional selves. 50% of doctors claim they wouldn't choose medicine again as a career. This is an anecdote, not a statistic. Oh he wasn't saying medical school wasn't worth it. I asked him about SGU and he said SGU WAS NOT WORTH IT.



Clearly you haven't been following these forums for very long then, because I've been a pretty vocal critic of my own school and Caribbean med education in general since I joined these forums some 5 years ago. But of course you don't want to hear that nuance, because it doesn't fit this black/white paradigm that you seem so interested in peddling. The problem I have with what you are saying is that you are making it seem like there is no risk involved for the good student or the hard worker or something along those lines. I'm saying that even at SGU, you are not safe till you are matched. To be fair, OK, you graduated you matched, you've moved on and you would want to promote that to a prospective student. But I have a hard time believing that SGU was a walk in the park even for you. I am promoting awareness to the prospective student.
 
Its probably better to lie and say that sgu puts 1/5 of ms1's into a furnace upon arrival in greneda and use them to season lunch compared to recommending people go there

So i give up on this argument
 
Its probably better to lie and say that sgu puts 1/5 of ms1's into a furnace upon arrival in greneda and use them to season lunch compared to recommending people go there

So i give up on this argument

Dammit I knew that chili con carne festival SGU threw to gain my interest was wack!!
 
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I don't understand the point some of these posts are trying to make. There seems to be this theme that going to a Carib school is an "uphill process". What is the implication? That US schools are easier in terms of finishing and landing your top residency spot? I went to a US med school and don't really recall that being a cake walk at any point along the process. People in my class didn't match and had to scramble. Just asking objectively.

BTW, I hate to nitpick but data ARE. Datum IS. You know who you is....I mean are....whatever.
 
I don't understand the point some of these posts are trying to make. There seems to be this theme that going to a Carib school is an "uphill process". What is the implication? That US schools are easier in terms of finishing and landing your top residency spot? I went to a US med school and don't really recall that being a cake walk at any point along the process. People in my class didn't match and had to scramble. Just asking objectively.

BTW, I hate to nitpick but data ARE. Datum IS. You know who you is....I mean are....whatever.

US schools are easier in the sense that they pick those who they feel will succeed in their program and on top of that they don't want to see them fail out. In the Caribbean, you take in whoever and you TRY to fail a good amount out. The latter is incredibly risky with the time and money involved. It pays off for some however.

I don't think any medical school is a cake walk but the US route is how it should be done.
 
Trust me, we had students drop or fail out at my university affiliated med school. In a class of less than 100, we had approx 5 people voluntarily drop out by Christmas break in our first term. We also had a handful of students in our starting class who were remediating first year when they should've been second years.

The attrition rates are surely higher at Carib schools because of numerous factors other than just weak academic prowess. Medical students/ doctors are an odd lot in general. Some may get cut or leave because of socially deviant behavior. Others may simply come unglued because of the isolation of island life. Others may decompensate because this would be the first time in their lives that the co-dependant realitionship with their pathologically overbearing and ever present parents is geographically interrupted.

US med school is not "easier" my man. I can guarantee you without a shadow of a doubt that had I gone to a Carib school, my numbers would have been exactly the same on my USMLE etc. US med schools may offer more resources and hand holding to aid in the life changing adjustment. My school practically pleaded with those students I had mentioned to not drop out. The reality is that most students who start the Carib process will finish and succeed. Certainly there will be outliers because of the multiple factors and sheer volume of students, but most will succeed. Also, make it or not, at least these students are moving forward and trying and not just sitting around wasting their time year after year. I respect that. If you want to be a certain something, no one should have the right to say you can't. You should at least have the opportunity to go for it.

In closing, I find the cookie cutter mentality on this forum to med school admissions very fascinating. "If you have X GPA and Y MCAT scores then you should be able to get into a US MD program but if it's not this specific threshold but not below this then you'll get into a DO program blah blah blah blah". There were plenty of students with MUCH higher numbers than me who didn't get in or went through several years of applications before they got in. Let me put things into context for you. When I first got out of high school, I attended 3 semesters of full courseload community college to portray the image and completely just f••ked around. Never did any work and rarely attended class. Got financial aid and bought a Z28. I got mostly F's, some I's, and a smattering of C's and D's. The financial aid money stopped so I dropped out worked for 7 years at every odd job. When I decided to go back to school, I re-entered said community college and re-took EVERY stupid finance, art, business class I had taken previously to offset my previous grades and got straight A's in every one of them. I finished my AS degree, transferred to one of the state universities, and finished my BS degree. I had a 3.98 GPA finishing my second go around but my cumulative GPA counting those previous bad grades was barely a 3.2, which was what was reported on my transcript and AMCAS. I had a 31 on my MCAT; good but not spectacular compared to some of my other classmates. I applied only to the 3 schools in my state. I just didn't have the money to spend on multiple apps and interviews. I got interviews at 2 of them, wait listed at one and in at the other. 3rd school didn't even reply. I want you to realize that this was in 1994, a point when med school applications were at an all time peak with TOP NOTCH applicants. This was also my FIRST year of applying. You'll have to excuse me if I find most anecdotes and expert advice on this forum about med school applications somewhat laughable. There are probably very few people who have more real world knowledge fueled and fostered by a combination of anxiety and drive than me. All of my pre-med advisors knew that I just wouldn't get in because of my application. I was at the top of my class and matched into my first choice for OB. Only applied and interviewed at 6 programs if I remember correctly.

The point is that nobody ever knows sh•t about anything. Every SINGLE person and circumstance are different and none of you have the right to bash any of these students' goals and aspirations. This is especially true if you haven't gotten of your ass and done anything yourself. Again, most of the experts who opine on these forums about the med school admission process would only get into med school themselves if they donated their body as a cadaver.
 
Trust me, we had students drop or fail out at my university affiliated med school. In a class of less than 100, we had approx 5 people voluntarily drop out by Christmas break in our first term. We also had a handful of students in our starting class who were remediating first year when they should've been second years.

The attrition rates are surely higher at Carib schools because of numerous factors other than just weak academic prowess. Medical students/ doctors are an odd lot in general. Some may get cut or leave because of socially deviant behavior. Others may simply come unglued because of the isolation of island life. Others may decompensate because this would be the first time in their lives that the co-dependant realitionship with their pathologically overbearing and ever present parents is geographically interrupted.

US med school is not "easier" my man. I can guarantee you without a shadow of a doubt that had I gone to a Carib school, my numbers would have been exactly the same on my USMLE etc. US med schools may offer more resources and hand holding to aid in the life changing adjustment. My school practically pleaded with those students I had mentioned to not drop out. The reality is that most students who start the Carib process will finish and succeed. Certainly there will be outliers because of the multiple factors and sheer volume of students, but most will succeed. Also, make it or not, at least these students are moving forward and trying and not just sitting around wasting their time year after year. I respect that. If you want to be a certain something, no one should have the right to say you can't. You should at least have the opportunity to go for it.

In closing, I find the cookie cutter mentality on this forum to med school admissions very fascinating. "If you have X GPA and Y MCAT scores then you should be able to get into a US MD program but if it's not this specific threshold but not below this then you'll get into a DO program blah blah blah blah". There were plenty of students with MUCH higher numbers than me who didn't get in or went through several years of applications before they got in. Let me put things into context for you. When I first got out of high school, I attended 3 semesters of full courseload community college to portray the image and completely just f••ked around. Never did any work and rarely attended class. Got financial aid and bought a Z28. I got mostly F's, some I's, and a smattering of C's and D's. The financial aid money stopped so I dropped out worked for 7 years at every odd job. When I decided to go back to school, I re-entered said community college and re-took EVERY stupid finance, art, business class I had taken previously to offset my previous grades and got straight A's in every one of them. I finished my AS degree, transferred to one of the state universities, and finished my BS degree. I had a 3.98 GPA finishing my second go around but my cumulative GPA counting those previous bad grades was barely a 3.2, which was what was reported on my transcript and AMCAS. I had a 31 on my MCAT; good but not spectacular compared to some of my other classmates. I applied only to the 3 schools in my state. I just didn't have the money to spend on multiple apps and interviews. I got interviews at 2 of them, wait listed at one and in at the other. 3rd school didn't even reply. I want you to realize that this was in 1994, a point when med school applications were at an all time peak with TOP NOTCH applicants. This was also my FIRST year of applying. You'll have to excuse me if I find most anecdotes and expert advice on this forum about med school applications somewhat laughable. There are probably very few people who have more real world knowledge fueled and fostered by a combination of anxiety and drive than me. All of my pre-med advisors knew that I just wouldn't get in because of my application. I was at the top of my class and matched into my first choice for OB. Only applied and interviewed at 6 programs if I remember correctly.

The point is that nobody ever knows sh•t about anything. Every SINGLE person and circumstance are different and none of you have the right to bash any of these students' goals and aspirations. This is especially true if you haven't gotten of your ass and done anything yourself. Again, most of the experts who opine on these forums about the med school admission process would only get into med school themselves if they donated their body as a cadaver.

This is a good post. I can't comment first-hand on what the US med school experience is like because I have never attended one.

I can guarantee you without a shadow of a doubt that had I gone to a Carib school, my numbers would have been exactly the same on my USMLE etc.

Nah man, I disagree with this completely. Every single Caribbean program is accelerated when you compare it to any US-based program. I believe you guys are taught "more" overall information and the Caribbean programs are glorified STEP preparation programs only. We have to essentially learn everything you learn in less time and with less teaching overall at that. I disagree with the process having experienced it for myself. If you're a Caribbean student and you are scoring 260 on STEP1, that's quite an accomplishment but I don't believe you are really any "smarter." You are just testing better than the next person. There is no way you can become stellar in the basic sciences in 20 months. The only thing that can happen during that time is that you can learn enough to test well on the material. Coming back to your quote, I don't think a US student can go to the Caribbean and automatically say they will succeed in one of those programs. I've experienced it man, it's balls hard in the Caribbean; almost not humanely possible at times. Both programs take a different approach to "learning." I say the US approach is the right approach in the long-run though.

In closing, I find the cookie cutter mentality on this forum to med school admissions very fascinating.

I do too man. It's comical actually. I would even argue more than 75% of the characters on this site never get into medical school. Like seriously who makes 30000+ posts lol. Anyway, yeah these guys don't have the answers to anything but like to feel important. If you want to find out about admissions to a certain school, you go to that F'in school, to their open-house, you talk to their students, their administration, and then you go from there. You don't come here looking for advice how to get into A SPECIFIC school. When these guys grow up they'll figure out how they world works.

My stance is that there are a few Caribbean schools or maybe just SGU that can get the right student to where they want to be. I had a bad experience at a school that just wanted to take your money. So I offered my experience to those who want to take that route so that they know how those lesser schools really work and I think that's good advice considering you need a student from the inside to tell you how it is. I still think the Caribbean is a viable route. It's risky but if you know what you are doing and you want it bad enough, I think you can get the program done and then match and be on your way.

You're right though, nobody has the answer. No "adcom" on this site is going to give you some insider advice...especially when some of them are clinically ill to begin with lol. There are some tidbits of useful information on this site. Most of it comes from students already out of basic sciences and who have moved on.

That's SDN for you man.
 
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