What is the absolute worst part about med school?

[cfdavid]

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What is killing me right now as I near the end of second year is the monotony. I'm so tired of the same routine...it is driving me insane. Every day, the same auditorium, same seats, same building, same lecture format, sit and listen to someone ramble on through a powerpoint for 50 minutes (and they always go over), the same people...don't get me wrong, I actually like and get along with most of my classmates (I would say about 80% of them, the rest are shadows in the background who I nod hello to on occasion), but I'm so tired of the same environment. I miss the variety of undergrad. Every semester you had fresh faces, different classes, different rooms, sometimes hours of break between any two individual classes, often free to do with as you wish...I really miss undergrad. As much work as third year will be, I will prefer the variety that it brings...it will be more like work and less like school, more similar to practicing medicine than sitting and passively absorbing info for two years. I welcome the change.

Studying for the boards sucks hard too.

Ditto, ditto, and ditto....

I did a little surgical rotation for MSI's this past summer. It was my first taste of what rotations will be like. I'm sure 3rd/4th years will get old, but I enjoyed actually feeling like part of a team and learning more hands on. I enjoyed reviewing anatomy for the next days procedures and looking up pathologies that I'd only heard of.

Again, I'm sure it becomes a drag like anything else. But, I'm getting pretty tired of the sit-on-my-as.s routine while trying to memorize the most information in the least amount of time (which DOES have it's value, but man...)

 

[kdburton]

Wait till clinical years. During some rotations you will average between 5-6 hours a night for extended periods.

I get 6 hours of sleep as it is. I'm under the impression that 3rd and 4th year will be easy compared to 1st and 2nd because I hate studying and I'd much rather be on the wards for long hours than in the library. Some people like studying/learning from the book and they probably feel the opposite.

 

[sendwich]

I get 6 hours of sleep as it is. I'm under the impression that 3rd and 4th year will be easy compared to 1st and 2nd because I hate studying and I'd much rather be on the wards for long hours than in the library. Some people like studying/learning from the book and they probably feel the opposite.

I hear it's harder b/c we'll be in the wards during the day, and then have to study during the night, which leaves you with less free time.

 

[The Buff]

I hear it's harder b/c we'll be in the wards during the day, and then have to study during the night, which leaves you with less free time.

So true. I was hoping it would be less studying, and if you look at it purely as "amount of time spent with a book" it is less than the first two years, but then you have to add in "I just spent 13 hours at the hospital". That equals much much less free time overall. Lack of free time third year has been the worst part about medical school for me.

 

[AwesomO]

I hear it's harder b/c we'll be in the wards during the day, and then have to study during the night, which leaves you with less free time.

You study in the wards to. Theres a lot of down time and most of us spent it reading.

I hated the first two years with a passion but there were times during third year where I wish I could of spent all day studying on my own time than having to go into work at 5 am and try to sqeeze in studying time.

 

[smq123]

I did a little surgical rotation for MSI's this past summer. It was my first taste of what rotations will be like. I'm sure 3rd/4th years will get old, but I enjoyed actually feeling like part of a team and learning more hands on. I enjoyed reviewing anatomy for the next days procedures and looking up pathologies that I'd only heard of.

Again, I'm sure it becomes a drag like anything else. But, I'm getting pretty tired of the sit-on-my-as.s routine while trying to memorize the most information in the least amount of time (which DOES have it's value, but man...)

I hope that you get a good resident, who treats you as part of the team. Not everyone does.

I get 6 hours of sleep as it is. I'm under the impression that 3rd and 4th year will be easy compared to 1st and 2nd because I hate studying and I'd much rather be on the wards for long hours than in the library. Some people like studying/learning from the book and they probably feel the opposite.

Sometimes I got 3-4 hours of sleep a night on surgery. There was a string of nights where I got 3 hours a night. The days started to blend into one another.

You need to study, almost every night, while you're on rotations.

The worst part is that, sometimes, you need to study certain things TWICE - you need to study it the way that the textbooks expect you to know/understand it. Then you need to study it AGAIN the way that your resident expects you to know/understand it. For example, in some of the clinical scenarios presented on the NBME shelf exams, the correct textbook treatment is DIFFERENT from the correct "real life" treatment. And some attendings expect you to know the "real life" treatment, but you need to know the "textbook" treatment in order to pass the shelf.

 

[AwesomO]

Sometimes I got 3-4 hours of sleep a night on surgery. There was a string of nights where I got 3 hours a night. The days started to blend into one another.

My personal fav was doing call the night before and having to work the whole day following a sleepless trauma night. Getting home around 6 pm then having to read about the next day's cases.

 

[Crazy4F1]

Wait till clinical years. During some rotations you will average between 5-6 hours a night for extended periods.

i'm already at that point! i got assigned to do some ER work as my first preceptorship and i was there until 8am on sunday morning.

 

[boulux]

Is it the no sleep thing? Is it the hours of studying? The lack of free time? What do people hate the most about med school?

having you in my class 😛

jk

 

[coffeebythelake]

Not the worst part (since I'm only an M2), but it's kinda disheartening to know the tens, if not hundreds on some tests, of hours you put in only to have the test consist of buzzwords that you may or not may know. It's like buzzword bingo from the IBM commercial

I think this is also the worst part. The pace of curriculum is set up such that it is basically memorize and forget. I can't remember most of the stuff from Fall semester.

 

[Slide]

One of the things that piss me off most about medical school is the bs professional and mandatory lectures. Most of these professional lectures are stupid because it's just indoctrination in things we either know, or are pretty trivial. Anything useful from these classes I could easily gather by reading the SDN forums. Then, there's the mandatory lectures where I learn nothing. We have daily quizzes in physiology where the lecturer usually expects us to have MASTERED the material before the lecture has even occurred. The daily quiz questions are usually old test questions on material that we may have read about the night before, but haven't really practiced or drilled into our heads. The funny thing is that if they expect us to master the material before class even begins, what's the point of even going to class when we already have "mastered" the material and we have to see the lecturer butcher his lecture and make everyone even more confused. Ugh

 

[SnowTown]

having to get up early for required PBL sessions really blows when the earliest class I had during my senior year at undergrade started at 11am... or 1pm for my last semester. that was freakin awesome...

 

[da8s0859q]

having to get up early for required PBL sessions really blows when the earliest class I had during my senior year at undergrade started at 11am... or 1pm for my last semester. that was freakin awesome...

I'm already not looking forward to the early mornings after having had a semester of days starting at 11am (Fall) and 12pm (this semester, my last one).

 

[Shredder]

Is it the no sleep thing? Is it the hours of studying? The lack of free time? What do people hate the most about med school?

dealing with derelicts. and most classmates. and administrators. Studying is a piece of cake. Free time, no big deal. In short, the people.

 

[Orthodoc40]

So, having only been through part of 1st year, all I can say is the worst part is 1st year!!! I am praying clinical years are better.....

 

[TarheelMD08]

MS1- Like trying to drink water from a firehose.
MS2- Sooooo many exams! monotony. Still not in the hospital.
MS3- Feeling dumb and useless all the time, and just as soon as that fades for one rotation, time for the next, where I was dumb and useless again. (Also, I totally agree with not being in control of my life- I still haven't rescheduled that dental appt)
MS4- Realizing I know everything med school is going to teach me, and not feeling ready to be a doctor. (I'm assured this is normal)

And this, from someone who really likes med school.

 

[HEADintheCLOUDS]

dealing with derelicts. and most classmates. and administrators. Studying is a piece of cake. Free time, no big deal. In short, the people.

I agree the people are the worst part escpecially those really immature ones!👎

 

[AK_MD2BE]

Knowing that what separates the High Pass from the Near Honors from the Honors is memorizing minutiae that will never be used again and never be tested on Step 1.

 

[abraxas20]

My fellow classmates, and how immature most of them are. (I thought that med students would be mature and professional!)🙁

Agreed - I didn't go to medical school to experience the "wonder" of high school all over again. I find the number of in class hook ups and break ups the most irritating, followed closely but violent gunning.

 

[beefballs]

without a doubt the worst part about medical school is the absurd amount of BS put in pace by jackass bureaucrats and people who are "expert" educators but have never practiced any form of medicine. They are a large segment of my in house faculty and are lazy and vindictive if you dare poke fun at their ludicrous programs and brain children. Also I resent the nonstop propaganda of compassion over all else. I love the subjects for the most part, interesting, and with the right text you feel much more knowledgeable after studying, but it is al of the superfluous (sp?) crap that really makes me hate it.

 

[beefballs]

Agreed - I didn't go to medical school to experience the "wonder" of high school all over again. I find the number of in class hook ups and break ups the most irritating, followed closely but violent gunning.

really I find it funny, I am married and spend most of my free time with wife & family, but I do find it entertaining to watch all of the in-house romance and drama, its like an episode of the office, and yes my class has someone who reminds me of dwight. Proximity breeding strange bedfellows & all.

 

[Law2Doc]

I get 6 hours of sleep as it is. I'm under the impression that 3rd and 4th year will be easy compared to 1st and 2nd because I hate studying and I'd much rather be on the wards for long hours than in the library. Some people like studying/learning from the book and they probably feel the opposite.

3rd year won't be "easy" (it can be described as better, more interesting, but easy is not a word I would ever use) -- you will still have tests after every rotation. The tests (shelf exams) are not easy, and you'll have a lot less time to study for them. And you'll still have to squeeze in Step 2 someplace during the clinical years. And attendings are going to want you to read up on stuff and give presentations, and to look up things you didn't know when they pimped you; you will constantly have something you should be reading during your down time or couple hours of awake time each night. So no, you don't get away from book learning after the basic science years. Many people actually end up covering almost as many pages during clinical years as basic science. It's just that now you will squeeze the reading in on top of a 6-6 work day on some rotations.

 

[deuist]

My votes are for

(1) Classmates --- I've never seen a bigger group of whiny, back-stabbing children in my life. It makes me what to go back to engineering.

(2) PBL --- Is there a bigger waste of time?

(3) Professionalism and diversity classes --- Maybe these are bigger time wasters.

 

[45408]

Hmm, I think I'm starting to see why my school has a reputation for having a friendly student body. I actually like most of my classmates. Sucks to be some of you guys.

 

[RxnMan]

The people.

Definitely the people.

I agree.

Strangely, the best thing about med school is the people.

Well, some of them.

 

[da8s0859q]

Hmm, I think I'm starting to see why my school has a reputation for having a friendly student body. I actually like most of my classmates. Sucks to be some of you guys.

Where's this? TX school by any chance?

 

[indo]

Another shot at PBL... This format sucks. It is one or two students who do ALL the talking and everyone else is sending text messages or checking the weather on their iphones. It is ridiculous to have one student essentially repeating what is written in Guyton and acting like they stumbled on to LaPlace's law while cutting up a cucumber the other day. YEAH, WE GOT IT...YOU READ.

On the other hand, going through cases after you've learned all the principals is a great way to figure out what you need to study more or how to apply the information. These types of sessions are rare though.

edit: But really, the worst part about med school is essentially giving up your 20's while your friends are making a ton of money and aren't living on generic brand everything.


...but what else would I be doing?

 

[da8s0859q]

Another shot at PBL... This format sucks. It is one or two students who do ALL the talking and everyone else is sending text messages or checking the weather on their iphones. It is ridiculous to have one student essentially repeating what is written in Guyton and acting like they stumbled on to LaPlace's law while cutting up a cucumber the other day. YEAH, WE GOT IT...YOU READ.

On the other hand, going through cases after you've learned all the principals is a great way to figure out what you need to study more or how to apply the information. These types of sessions are rare though.

edit: But really, the worst part about med school is essentially giving up your 20's while your friends are making a ton of money and aren't living on generic brand everything.


...but what else would I be doing?

A recurring theme for my interest in this in the first place.

 

[Cranial Gavage]

Also I resent the nonstop propaganda of compassion over all else.

Question from an MS-0:

How would other med students respond to this quote? Agree or disagree?

 

[deuist]

Agree

 

[smq123]

Question from an MS-0:

How would other med students respond to this quote? Agree or disagree?

I would probably agree with this.

Most of the lecturers that champion compassion "over all else" are not practicing physicians. Most of them are PhDs in things like English lit or philosophy or medical ethics.

The problem with those people who keep pushing compassion "over all else" is that they don't seem to understand what compassion, in a clinical setting, really means. The way they talk, you would think that true compassion is giving in to your patients and giving your patients whatever they want.

But giving into your patient's demands isn't necessarily what's best for that patient. If your patient comes in demanding percocet, just giving him as much percocet as he wants isn't good for him. But these BS lecturers would have you believe that, in fact, you should give him some percocet "because the patient knows what's best for himself!" 🙄

 

[Orthodoc40]

Question from an MS-0:

How would other med students respond to this quote? Agree or disagree?

I don't resent it. To me, it isn't first as in, "above" all else, it is first as in, "below" all else, as in - foundational, and therefore first. I believe they are trying to get us to operate with compassion as a foundation from which we make our decisions, which isn't the same thing as "above all else".

 

[sprinkibrio]

Where's this? TX school by any chance?

I really like my classmates too... in TX. Maybe because my undergrad pre-med classmates were so intolerable so I had low expectations. Then they all went on to your schools.

 

[da8s0859q]

I really like my classmates too... in TX. Maybe because my undergrad pre-med classmates were so intolerable so I had low expectations. Then they all went on to your schools.

Oh? Mind sharing your school / PMing me about it / whatever you're comfy with? Will be useful future knowledge since I'm applying come May.

 

[cfdavid]

dealing with derelicts. and most classmates. and administrators. Studying is a piece of cake. Free time, no big deal. In short, the people.

You know "Shredder" I gotta call you out dude. That type of attitude, the "nobody else get's it but me", will get you nowhere.

 

[ubun21]

annoying classmates behaving like high school kids

 

[DwyaneWade]

My votes are for

(1) Classmates --- I've never seen a bigger group of whiny, back-stabbing children in my life. It makes me what to go back to engineering.

(2) PBL --- Is there a bigger waste of time?

(3) Professionalism and diversity classes --- Maybe these are bigger time wasters.

Do people get significantly worse during the clinical years? 😕

I have to add my vote FOR PBL as being useful, I guess it depends on your group but I much prefer it to lecture.

 

[Anka]

Question from an MS-0:

How would other med students respond to this quote? Agree or disagree?

Agree, especially with SMQs take on it. It's not that I'm a jerk who doesn't think compassion is a good thing, it's that the people who are speaking the loudest about it usually have a very narrow, not clinicially based view of what it means. You have to go to these lectures, but you really learn the ethos of your profession on the wards from preceptors and residents you admire.

Anka

 

[Shredder]

Knowing that what separates the High Pass from the Near Honors from the Honors is memorizing minutiae that will never be used again and never be tested on Step 1.

That's why Step 1 and years 3 and 4 are what count more

You know "Shredder" I gotta call you out dude. That type of attitude, the "nobody else get's it but me", will get you nowhere.

I exaggerate online. It's the only place I can get away with it.

Gotta agree with deuist on classmates/PBL/professionalism+diversity

 

[The Buff]

Do people get significantly worse during the clinical years? 😕

People got much worse in 3rd year. Maybe that was just my unlucky experience, but many of the niceties of the first two years were lacking on the wards. I heard about it, but honestly counldnt believe people were trying to undermine me until it happened.

 

[Ashers]

People got much worse in 3rd year. Maybe that was just my unlucky experience, but many of the niceties of the first two years were lacking on the wards. I heard about it, but honestly counldnt believe people were trying to undermine me until it happened.

Same here. Some people stayed the same, whether nice or gunners, but I just got off surgery with a student who used to be nice and was totally gunning for surgery. I want to do something surgical too, but I wasn't doing stuff to make her look bad. I relied on doing my work and doing it well, ignoring what the student was trying to do, and at least my residents told me I was doing well.

 

[Gravi69]

I would probably agree with this.

Most of the lecturers that champion compassion "over all else" are not practicing physicians. Most of them are PhDs in things like English lit or philosophy or medical ethics.

The problem with those people who keep pushing compassion "over all else" is that they don't seem to understand what compassion, in a clinical setting, really means. The way they talk, you would think that true compassion is giving in to your patients and giving your patients whatever they want.

But giving into your patient's demands isn't necessarily what's best for that patient. If your patient comes in demanding percocet, just giving him as much percocet as he wants isn't good for him. But these BS lecturers would have you believe that, in fact, you should give him some percocet "because the patient knows what's best for himself!" 🙄

These lecturers I find are usually present in years 1 and 2 of med school.

If I had tried applying even half of what they were promoting in my 3rd year, there's no doubt in my mind I would have been berated endlessly (especially on a rotation like surgery)

 

[Cranial Gavage]

If I had tried applying even half of what they were promoting in my 3rd year, there's no doubt in my mind I would have been berated endlessly (especially on a rotation like surgery)

What kinds of "compassionate" attitudes/behaviors cause trouble on the wards or in surgery?

 

[alfonzarel]

cliche, but...

knowing that the more i learn, the more i realize that i haven't even scratched the surface of the surface.

yes, yes, cliche, i know.

but, hey, sue me.

 

[smq123]

What kinds of "compassionate" attitudes/behaviors cause trouble on the wards or in surgery?

I wouldn't have gotten in trouble for following what they told me in those "touchy-feely" classes, but it wouldn't have helped me out.

For instance:
Lesson 1: Try to find out your patient's motivations for doing things.

Yes, very easy to do in the abstract, where all your patients are good people who tell the truth. When they have something to hide, trying to find out their motivations is like pulling teeth. And it takes up a lot of time - time that you need to do other stuff.

Lesson 2: Try to reach a compromise with your patients on ALL treatment decisions!

Sorry, but if a patient asks for percocet because he thinks he might "need it when he gets home," then I'm not going to try to compromise. There isn't a hospital in the world that's going to give you percocet for your recent bout with the flu.

I know that you want to deliver in a birthing pool, but I'm afraid that we don't have one at this hospital. We don't even have bathtubs in this place. I have no idea why you came here, as opposed to the birthing center down the street.

I know that you don't want an IV, but if you want to deliver in this hospital, then you need one. That way, if you start to hemorrhage or if you need a stat c-section, we aren't left up **** creek without a paddle. It's for the best.

Lesson 3: Try to respect your patient's needs!

A lot of patients need to just "suck it up" sometimes. I'm sorry, but the hospital doesn't have a special kind of organic yogurt that you "need" in the mornings. You'll have to settle for Dannon. And no, asking my resident to "pull a few strings with the cafeteria" is only going to bring ridicule and laughter onto me. Sorry.

Lesson 4: Your patients know more about disease than you do.

Maybe - but your patients know more about THEIR disease than you do. They don't know more about ALL diseases than you do.

We had a panel of women with ovarian cancer come talk to us. They said that one of the common symptoms of ovarian cancer is "abdominal discomfort and bloating," and they were angry that more doctors weren't very aggressive about suspecting ovarian cancer in women with "abdominal bloating."

Jesus Christ. Do you know how many diseases have "abdominal bloating" as a symptom? PMS, IBS, IBD, constipation, anxiety - the list is endless. Am I going to jump to a diagnosis of ovarian cancer in every woman who thinks that she's "bloated"? No, not even as an ob/gyn. I'm sure that these women thought that they were giving us an important diagnostic clue, but it truly wasn't helpful.

In the first two years, they basically try to teach you that compassion is more important than everything, including common sense. And that's just not true.

 

[Cranial Gavage]

smq- nice response, thanks for posting.

Seems like compassion in medicine is like socialism- a noble idea that gets fouled up in real life by human nature.

 

[smq123]

Seems like compassion in medicine is like socialism- a noble idea that gets fouled up in real life by human nature.

Well, I think that it's really that these lecturers don't define compassion very well - or else they themselves don't know what compassion really means. It does NOT mean being a pushover, or letting your patients run over you and make all their own decisions themselves.

 

[Cranial Gavage]

I created a new thread for the compassion-in-medicine issue without hijacking this one:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=501057

 

[notlikethat]

can someone give some examples of this alledged backstabbing?

 

[45408]

Lesson 4: Your patients know more about disease than you do.

Maybe - but your patients know more about THEIR disease than you do. They don't know more about ALL diseases than you do.

We had a panel of women with ovarian cancer come talk to us. They said that one of the common symptoms of ovarian cancer is "abdominal discomfort and bloating," and they were angry that more doctors weren't very aggressive about suspecting ovarian cancer in women with "abdominal bloating."

Jesus Christ. Do you know how many diseases have "abdominal bloating" as a symptom? PMS, IBS, IBD, constipation, anxiety - the list is endless. Am I going to jump to a diagnosis of ovarian cancer in every woman who thinks that she's "bloated"? No, not even as an ob/gyn. I'm sure that these women thought that they were giving us an important diagnostic clue, but it truly wasn't helpful.

Yeah, that one is really irritating. They might know more about how it FEELS, but they probably don't know as much about its pathology, unless it's rare and severe, and they have to know a lot about it, and I probably don't know much about it. Like hydranencephaly.