What is the current climate in the medical community regarding theistic religion?

[Lt.]

Based on your experience, what is the general climate in the medical community regarding theistic religious beliefs e.g. Christianity? How often do these subjects come up (at work or in personal conversations) and what is the stance of most doctors in this regard? What might be the percentage of theists vs. non-theists in the medical community?

I would hazard that, as the world/political climate in general trends toward atheism, and medicine being a science-based discipline, that the majority tends toward secularism. However, I would like to hear of personal experiences and opinions that speak to whether this is true.

I am asking out of curiosity, and importantly because I intend to discuss faith as the primary motivating factor in my desire to serve in medicine in my essay/interviews.

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[Mad Jack]

Medicine, in general, is very diverse. You've got people from all over the world and all walks of life. I've had very conservative and very liberal attendings and colleagues of various religions. While we may hold our differences in opinion, generally it never interferes with work or the ways in which we view one another. My favorite group of attendings were a conservative evangelical Christian, a conservative Muslim, and a liberal atheist that had been great friends and coworkers for over 20 years. In that sense I would say it's far more accepting than society in general, where groups tend to form hard lines. Studies have consistently shown physicians to be slightly more religious and to vote more slightly more conservative than society as a whole. However, academic medicine tends to be more liberal than medicine in general.

That being said I would avoid divisive topics like abortion and the like when applying. Whether you're for or against them, it tends to be divisive and polarizing to application committees. It is critical to be able to work with diverse groups of patients and colleagues, and having a personal statement that speaks to your ability to connect to others on an emotional level without alienating large groups of people is a way to demonstrate that.

An interesting read on the subject:

A place for faith: Doctors bring spirituality to work

Physicians reflect on how faith influences their practice, and share moments of spiritual connection with patients.

www.aamc.org

 

[LunaOri]

I’d say that religion is a topic we generally don’t discuss at work, except to wish each other well on our respective holidays.

 

[GoSpursGo]

You're probably not wrong that medicine probably trends further away from religion compared to the general population, but there certainly are a number of people who are religious. It doesn't come up in routine conversation except perhaps among colleagues who have been working together for a significant period of time.

I do think you should be careful if you're going to really lean into religion in your personal statement and secondaries. While I don't think that anyone would actively discriminate against you based on your religious motivations, there may be a subset of reviewers who would involuntarily roll their eyes at this premise and thus subconsciously bias themselves against you. As someone myself who once upon a time many years ago talked extensively about my religion in my application, I now generally advise students to avoid doing so unless there really is no other way to convey their motivations for entering medical training (i.e. altruism, wanting to help others, etc, outside of religion). I just generally feel there is little to gain by having that be your first impression, and while you should be truthful and genuine in your personal statement you need to be thoughtful about how to frame your application to be received positively by the widest swath of potential reviewers.

 

[Med Ed]

I am asking out of curiosity, and importantly because I intend to discuss faith as the primary motivating factor in my desire to serve in medicine in my essay/interviews.

You can pull it off if you can make it concrete. For example, and for the sake of argument, if you put forth that you follow the core teachings of loving your neighbor, following the Golden Rule, and forgiving freely, then lay out examples of when and how you have done these things.

If you can't come up with any compelling examples of how your faith has actually directed your actions then I would rethink the entire approach.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

I would definitely say that there is at least some hostility/skepticism within a large chunk of medical faculty. For example, I’ve heard some profs make anti Catholic jokes for example. Now it’s hard to know if this is isolated to faculty/academic medicine or applies in practice as well.

 

[Lt.]

You're probably not wrong that medicine probably trends further away from religion compared to the general population, but there certainly are a number of people who are religious. It doesn't come up in routine conversation except perhaps among colleagues who have been working together for a significant period of time.

I do think you should be careful if you're going to really lean into religion in your personal statement and secondaries. While I don't think that anyone would actively discriminate against you based on your religious motivations, there may be a subset of reviewers who would involuntarily roll their eyes at this premise and thus subconsciously bias themselves against you. As someone myself who once upon a time many years ago talked extensively about my religion in my application, I now generally advise students to avoid doing so unless there really is no other way to convey their motivations for entering medical training (i.e. altruism, wanting to help others, etc, outside of religion). I just generally feel there is little to gain by having that be your first impression, and while you should be truthful and genuine in your personal statement you need to be thoughtful about how to frame your application to be received positively by the widest swath of potential reviewers.

This is exactly what I was afraid of, if that's the right word. However, my current thinking is that it actually makes me want to double down harder in a sense because I feel like, as a man of faith, that I should hold that principle above all else. Therefore, denying it specifically to cater to the interviewers would be hypocritical. Careful is one thing, but if the truth of the matter is that deep down, if that is the ultimate reason for my desire to serve, I should be straightforward about it. If I am meant to be in medicine, and if God does exist, then it will still work, regardless of whom I may alienate in the application process.

I don't hold any bigoted or extremist views, and would not say anything divisive, of course, nor would I let any of my beliefs hinder any part of medical practice. It simply is at the core of my being. I truly think it would be more difficult to try to dance around it.

 

[GoSpursGo]

my current thinking is that it actually makes me want to double down harder in a sense because I feel like, as a man of faith, that I should hold that principle above all else. Therefore, denying it specifically to cater to the interviewers would be hypocritical.

Nobody is suggesting you deny your faith, just that it might not be wise to lead with that. Think about your first impression in any other setting--do you really lead with your religious beliefs when you're meeting other people for the first time? Or are you being disingenuous by saying you feel a calling to alleviate human suffering? If you were applying to any other job, would you find it appropriate to discuss your religion in an interview setting?

As a person of faith myself, I don't find any issue with being pragmatic about when and where to share my beliefs. Ultimately only you can tell your story. Most reviewers will likely not dock you if you choose to talk about your faith.

 

[Lt.]

Nobody is suggesting you deny your faith, just that it might not be wise to lead with that. Think about your first impression in any other setting--do you really lead with your religious beliefs when you're meeting other people for the first time? Or are you being disingenuous by saying you feel a calling to alleviate human suffering? If you were applying to any other job, would you find it appropriate to discuss your religion in an interview setting?

As a person of faith myself, I don't find any issue with being pragmatic about when and where to share my beliefs. Ultimately only you can tell your story. Most reviewers will likely not dock you if you choose to talk about your faith.

I don't lead with it in any other setting, no- however, the difference is the prompt. Most jobs are not asking where your motivation lies at the heart of your being, or attempting to divulge something intimate about your character. This feels different to me. "Why I want to go to medical school" is a deeply personal issue, or at least it should be if I don't want my response to be a cookie cutter essay. I am simply answering the prompt to the best of my ability and with the most genuine truth.

 

[GoSpursGo]

I don't lead with it in any other setting, no- however, the difference is the prompt. Most jobs are not asking where your motivation lies at the heart of your being, or attempting to divulge something intimate about your character. This feels different to me. "Why I want to go to medical school" is a deeply personal issue, or at least it should be if I don't want my response to be a cookie cutter essay. I am simply answering the prompt to the best of my ability and with the most genuine truth.

I actually disagree--"Why do you want to be an X" is a pretty common question in an interview setting. An applicant to business school probably doesn't say "Because I want to be filthy stinking rich," even if that is true just because it is a pretty awkward first impression.

Telling your most genuine truth isn’t what you’re doing here. This isn’t you sitting around discussing your future plans with your friends. It’s a job application and a job interview, and there are just some hot-button topics like religion (and politics, etc) that carry inherent risks that probably are better to avoid. Cookie cutter is OK if you have the credentials and experience to justify letting you into medical school.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

If you are thinking of palliative care, you will find a lot of people who I think are more tolerant about discussions of faith.

Look up the Jewish story of why God created atheists.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

I guess you kind of just need to decide whether you want to be your authentic self in essays or whether you want to have the best chance of getting in

 

[LindaAccepted]

It also depends if you come across as preaching a specific theology (a no-no) or if you talk about the impact of your beliefs on your actions. Focus on how it motivated you and the results of your initiatives more than your specific religious beliefs.

 

[Lt.]

It also depends if you come across as preaching a specific theology (a no-no) or if you talk about the impact of your beliefs on your actions. Focus on how it motivated you and the results of your initiatives more than your specific religious beliefs.

The latter is what I am doing. My personal statement has little to do with the specifics of my theology or preaching it, but rather uses it to describe the why behind the story, as I believe the essay is meant to be written as.

 

[LizzyM]

I get this question every year.... If your motivation for medicine is to care for the sick, the dying, the emotionally and mentally ill because your religious beliefs encourage you to do so, then you are not alone in that motivation and it will not be held against you.

If you come across as someone who is going to "save" patients while you save their lives and use the clinical encounter as an opportunity for religious conversion, then that's another story but I do find that exceedingly rare, thank God!

 

[Lt.]

I get this question every year.... If your motivation for medicine is to care for the sick, the dying, the emotionally and mentally ill because your religious beliefs encourage you to do so, then you are not alone in that motivation and it will not be held against you.

If you come across as someone who is going to "save" patients while you save their lives and use the clinical encounter as an opportunity for religious conversion, then that's another story but I do find that exceedingly rare, thank God!

Thank you! I am so happy to hear positive encouragement.

 

[butidontwantto]

Hello, friendly neighborhood atheist here. Just wanted to offer some perspective from the other side of the spectrum. Something I have found is that people who have a strong sense of faith and also belong to a Christian religion, well they can have some major blind spots when communicating with people not of their religion. Stuff like assuming that your faith necessarily virtue signals that you are a good, safe, trustworthy person. While organized religions are responsible for doing a lot of good acts, they’re also responsible for causing a lot of harm. The people who are loudest about their faith also seem to be the ones that do the most hurting. It really doesn’t matter what your intentions are, when you come on strong re your faith it can feel aggressive to someone not of that faith. For example, we had a head TA my 2nd year who, when introducing herself to the class, identified herself as a daughter of Jesus Christ and I immediately recoiled. She might have been a super lovely and helpful person, but that introduction meant I was never going to go to her for help (being on the lower rung in the power dynamic) because I’ve experienced too many, just, awful interactions with people who talk about their faith like this. So like, can you talk about your faith in an essay? Sure, but unless everyone on the admissions committee is a part of your “in group”, making it the central theme of your essay is really risky imho. If I were the one reading that essay, my reaction would be so you’re a Christian, that’s great for you, but so what?* Actions speak so much louder than words, what have you actually done that will show me you’re a good human? Keep in mind too that there are a lot of religious groups currently actively causing harm to the medical care of women and the lgbtq+ community.

Once you have a draft of your essay maybe ask some friends who are athiests, or at the very least not Christian, to read through it and give you honest feedback about how you come across. If you can’t think of anyone who can be that person for you, I would take that as a sign that you’re fairly encapsulated within a cultural bubble, meaning you might need to do some extra legwork to find those blind spots. If it’s just a sentence of here’s where I started, and the rest of the essay is here’s what I’ve done with it, you might be fine.

*Just to be clear here, I would not hold a bias against someone for having their faith be a big part of their life. It is important, however, as a physician (and a medical student!) to be able to read the room.

 

[2024 or 5 ?]

"Keep in mind too that there are a lot of religious groups currently actively causing harm to the medical care of women and the lgbtq+ community."

The above quote demonstrates that some people have very negative attitudes towards religion. Some schools may reject you because of this, but plenty of other schools want kind compassionate individuals.

 

[butidontwantto]

"Keep in mind too that there are a lot of religious groups currently actively causing harm to the medical care of women and the lgbtq+ community."

The above quote demonstrates that some people have very negative attitudes towards religion. Some schools may reject you because of this, but plenty of other schools want kind compassionate individuals.

OP, this is a really good example of what I was talking about. Here they’re asserting that either you have a negative view of religion, or you are a kind compassionate individual. These are not mutually exclusive categories. Put another way, they’re saying you must have a positive view of religion in order to be a kind compassionate person. Cue a major eye roll and very tired, exasperated sigh. As for the religious groups working to restrict health care for women and lgbtq+ people, they are in no way acting with kindness and compassion. The other assumption I’m picking up in subtext is that by religion they mean Christianity, and by Christianity they mean the one true religion, not from anything explicitly said but because I’ve never heard anyone from any other faith based group talk like this. So that might be putting words in their mouth, but that’s the impression I get just based on the cultural context of existing as a non-Christian person in the United States. Bottom line is you need to be mindful of what you project to others. You are going to have patients all over all different kinds of spectrums. They all deserve good healthcare. That means that you’re going to have to be able to develop good therapeutic relationships with people who do/believe things you don’t personally agree with. And look, some days that’s going to be really hard. But you’ve got to be able to do it because that’s the job. And that’s what adcoms are judging, your potential ability to do the job.