What is the difference between shadowing, clinical volunteer, and clinical research?

[triplebond]

So I know that shadowing generally means following a physician around and observing them. But what is clinical volunteer? Is that just volunteering at a hospital discharging patients or is it more like EMT volunteer? Lastly, what is clinical research? I've heard that clinical research or clinical experience is important for medical school. I've only done lab bench research and I don't particularly like it. Is clinical research different and how can I get in a program for undergrads?

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[302356]

Research - participation in any project which utilizes experimental methods to test a hypothesis [may or may not lead to a publication]
Clinical volunteer - "Clinical" because you can smell a patient at the very least and volunteer because you usually work in a setting helping to do different tasks and assist other healthcare professionals
Shadowing - you follow around a doctor, NP, etc. and observe the patient-doctor relationship, take notes, and realize what a day in the life of a doctor is

 

[allantois]

Research - participation in any project which utilizes experimental methods to test a hypothesis [may or may not lead to a publication]
Clinical volunteer - "Clinical" because you can smell a patient at the very least and volunteer because you usually work in a setting helping to do different tasks and assist other healthcare professionals
Shadowing - you follow around a doctor, NP, etc. and observe the patient-doctor relationship, take notes, and realize what a day in the life of a doctor is

No no no NP does not belong with the word doctor.

 

[Cotterpin]

I did clinical research during undergrad. It was in the emergency department of a major teaching hospital. We had a bunch of studies we were working on and it was my job to hang out in the ED, screen patients, and approach them to enroll them in studies. I spent a lot of time talking to patients, informing them, getting consent, etc. Then I would help an attending, resident, or nurse (depending on the study) gather data. I got a ton of patient interaction and the doctors would always be pulling me over to watch them do procedures and stuff. I would highly recommend doing something like this if you can.

How you get involved in something like this probably depends on your situation. I was on a listserv at my undergrad that was posting about opportunities like this a couple of times a week, so I always read that thing and when I saw something I was interested in, I tried to get involved. But if your school isn't attached to a medical school, maybe you can go poking around the websites of nearby hospitals and see if they have any volunteer programs.

 

[Banco]

All 3 are a type of clinical experience (i.e. a way to see what doctors do and what patients experience).

 

[Goro]

There are excellent responses in this thread to your questions, but I'd like to add that the "volunteer" part usually means "service to others". Clinical research doesn't quite mean the same thing as, say, bring bringing patients water or talking to their families when a loved one is in surgery.

So I know that shadowing generally means following a physician around and observing them. But what is clinical volunteer? Is that just volunteering at a hospital discharging patients or is it more like EMT volunteer? Lastly, what is clinical research? I've heard that clinical research or clinical experience is important for medical school. I've only done lab bench research and I don't particularly like it. Is clinical research different and how can I get in a program for undergrads?

 

[bee17]

Clinical volunteering, shadowing, and clinical research can all fall under the umbrella of "clinical experience." Having clinical experience of some sort is crucial.

It's great to have research for medical school (shows critical thinking skills), but it doesn't necessarily have to be clinical or even related to medicine. Email professors in the bio or chem department at your school to ask about openings in their labs.

Shadowing is when you follow around a doctor for a while to see what the daily life of a doctor is like. Shadowing more than one specialty is a good idea.

Clinical volunteering is an unpaid position where you are providing some sort of service to patients/families in a healthcare setting. Examples of where you can volunteer: hospital, hospice, nursing home, clinic. This shows two things: that you are altruistic, and that you have experience interacting with people who are sick/vulnerable.

Clinical experience can also be obtained through a paid position. Some applicants work as EMTs, CNAs, or scribes. This is not a requirement, but it is a great way to get patient contact, experience in a healthcare setting, and earn some money.

 

[triplebond]

I did clinical research during undergrad. It was in the emergency department of a major teaching hospital. We had a bunch of studies we were working on and it was my job to hang out in the ED, screen patients, and approach them to enroll them in studies. I spent a lot of time talking to patients, informing them, getting consent, etc. Then I would help an attending, resident, or nurse (depending on the study) gather data. I got a ton of patient interaction and the doctors would always be pulling me over to watch them do procedures and stuff. I would highly recommend doing something like this if you can.

How you get involved in something like this probably depends on your situation. I was on a listserv at my undergrad that was posting about opportunities like this a couple of times a week, so I always read that thing and when I saw something I was interested in, I tried to get involved. But if your school isn't attached to a medical school, maybe you can go poking around the websites of nearby hospitals and see if they have any volunteer programs.

This is exactly what I was looking for. However, I go to a CSU in socal and there aren't any such programs. I will ask my prehealth advisor, but I think I'm on my own here. Most hospitals in my area only have volunteer programs.

Did they require you to have any experience to do clinical research?

 

[Affiche]

There are excellent responses in this thread to your questions, but I'd like to add that the "volunteer" part usually means "service to others". Clinical research doesn't quite mean the same thing as, say, bring bringing patients water or talking to their families when a loved one is in surgery.

Just want to clarify that clinical research can offer service to others! It's not totally results-focused. My clinical research aims to develop interventions and outreach programs for specific populations. Our participants benefit a lot from our studies, both physically and emotionally.

 

[triplebond]

Clinical volunteering, shadowing, and clinical research can all fall under the umbrella of "clinical experience." Having clinical experience of some sort is crucial.

It's great to have research for medical school (shows critical thinking skills), but it doesn't necessarily have to be clinical or even related to medicine. Email professors in the bio or chem department at your school to ask about openings in their labs.

Shadowing is when you follow around a doctor for a while to see what the daily life of a doctor is like. Shadowing more than one specialty is a good idea.

Clinical volunteering is an unpaid position where you are providing some sort of service to patients/families in a healthcare setting. Examples of where you can volunteer: hospital, hospice, nursing home, clinic. This shows two things: that you are altruistic, and that you have experience interacting with people who are sick/vulnerable.

Clinical experience can also be obtained through a paid position. Some applicants work as EMTs, CNAs, or scribes. This is not a requirement, but it is a great way to get patient contact, experience in a healthcare setting, and earn some money.

I have two semesters of ochem research. Is this too little? I didn't particularly enjoy doing ochem research so I am thinking of quitting and finding a different type of research to do that's more enriching, perhaps bio or, if I'm lucky, clinical research.

I have been volunteering at a hospital for three years now and have ~200 community service hours. I'm now looking into more hands-on volunteering where I can actually touch patients and take vitals, etc. I've heard that the easiest way for get this experience without needing medical training is volunteering at free clinics because they need all the help they can get, and medical students will be helping you out. What are your thoughts on this approach to gain clinical experience?

 

[Affiche]

@triplebond I can't speak for clinical volunteering but if you can get into clinical research, do it. I've been taking vitals, drawing blood, helping with patient histories, etc since I started. I'm running my own project now and the autonomy I have is incredible. My participants trust me and I've learned how to earn that trust. I've been able to work with patients with cancer, diabetes, Parkinson's, MS, and a plethora or other medical issues. I've learned a lot about my PI's specialty and he's been an invaluable resource for connecting me with other attendings who have served as mentors for me. I can't recommend this experience enough!

Edit: the only drawback is that my research includes cohort studies, so it takes much longer to get a publication out. I likely won't be published until after this cycle and while I really don't care about that at all, it may be something for others to consider if that's what they're gunning for.

 

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot]

if you can get into clinical research, do it.

How did you get involved with this? I've been applying to Clinical Research Assistant positions for months with no luck. I've even met with the director of the clinical trials management office and she said that clinical research was just really difficult to break in to. Any tips?

 

[Affiche]

How did you get involved with this? I've been applying to Clinical Research Assistant positions for months with no luck. I've even met with the director of the clinical trials management office and she said that clinical research was just really difficult to break in to. Any tips?

I got really lucky because my major is unique, there aren't a lot of us, and my lab was looking specifically for someone with my degree.

That said, the best advice I ever received was that when someone tells you they don't have anything available, ask them if they know someone who does. I think a lot of pre-med kids are still...kids....and don't feel comfortable following up when someone tells them no. Don't be shy and don't be picky!

 

[Cotterpin]

This is exactly what I was looking for. However, I go to a CSU in socal and there aren't any such programs. I will ask my prehealth advisor, but I think I'm on my own here. Most hospitals in my area only have volunteer programs.

Did they require you to have any experience to do clinical research?

Definitely get in touch with your advisor and ask. I didn't have any previous experience, but we did have to do a lot of training for HIPAA and human subjects research purposes before we were allowed to participate. It was probably a lot easier for me to get involved with this because I was an undergrad at a big university with its own med school, so there were fewer hoops to jump through to get to work in the hospital.

 

[Goro]

Nice try, but it's too indirect. But the fact that you're actually touching patients counts. it might not be 100% service, but it's definitely patient contact!

Just want to clarify that clinical research can offer service to others! It's not totally results-focused. My clinical research aims to develop interventions and outreach programs for specific populations. Our participants benefit a lot from our studies, both physically and emotionally.

 

[Cotterpin]

@Goro Does clinical research count as research experience on my app just as much as basic science research does? If I haven't done any bench research, does that weaken my chances?

 

[Affiche]

Nice try, but it's too indirect. But the fact that you're actually touching patients counts. it might not be 100% service, but it's definitely patient contact!

I think you're assuming my research is something that it isn't lol. It's not indirect at all. Part of half of our studies includes motivational interviewing and self-determination theory....which is a lot more beneficial than bringing someone a cup of water.

Edit: volunteering isn't this altruistic service to patients that you're painting it to be. Most of the time, volunteers hardly interact with the patients and instead are doing grunt work as service to the hospital. You can have a much more meaningful impact on someone's life through clinical research, depending on what your research includes (and also what your volunteering includes).

 

[triplebond]

@rachiie01
Have you graduated already? What is your major? The work you are doing sounds really cool. Do ou think teaching hospitals would take a chance on a premed student with no clinical research experience or bachelor's degree?

 

[ZedsDed]

I think you're assuming my research is something that it isn't lol. It's not indirect at all. Part of half of our studies includes motivational interviewing and self-determination theory....which is a lot more beneficial than bringing someone a cup of water.

Edit: volunteering isn't this altruistic service to patients that you're painting it to be. Most of the time, volunteers hardly interact with the patients and instead are doing grunt work as service to the hospital. You can have a much more meaningful impact on someone's life through clinical research, depending on what your research includes (and also what your volunteering includes).

That certainly wasn't the case at the hospital I volunteered at. And I suspect most AdCom members will disagree with you if you try to portray your research in that way during your interviews.

 

[Goro]

Yes and no.

@Goro Does clinical research count as research experience on my app just as much as basic science research does? If I haven't done any bench research, does that weaken my chances?

 

[Affiche]

That certainly wasn't the case at the hospital I volunteered at. And I suspect most AdCom members will disagree with you if you try to portray your research in that way during your interviews.

That's why I included that it also depends on what your volunteering includes. The sad truth is that the vast majority of hospital volunteers have little patient interaction. Instead, they're changing bed sheets or standing around trying to look busy. They might be able to check people in at a clinic or something, but it's certainly not uncommon to volunteer at a hospital and be disappointed with the experience. That's the norm at the major hospital on my campus (which is the best hospital in the state and has a top 10 medical school) and seems to be the case on this forum as well.

I don't intend to portray my work to be anything other than what it is. You know very, very little about what my research includes, as does Goro. I suspect that if I'm interviewing and I properly explain my research (much more than I'm willing to on a public forum) that adcoms will see that it absolutely does provide a service. I have a phenomenal PI who will not run a control group without providing them with some type of service, as he feels that would be disingenuous, and I have no problem articulating that.

Edit: I'll add that I am paid for my work and that does take away the altruism of it. However, that doesn't make my work any less rewarding for me or meaningful for my participants.

 

[Affiche]

@rachiie01
Have you graduated already? What is your major? The work you are doing sounds really cool. Do ou think teaching hospitals would take a chance on a premed student with no clinical research experience or bachelor's degree?

Yes, I graduated in 2013. You can PM me if you'd like to know more! My major is really, really small and I'd rather not disclose it in a thread to protect anonymity.

 

[ZedsDed]

That's why I included that it also depends on what your volunteering includes. The sad truth is that the vast majority of hospital volunteers have little patient interaction. Instead, they're changing bed sheets or standing around trying to look busy. They might be able to check people in at a clinic or something, but it's certainly not uncommon to volunteer at a hospital and be disappointed with the experience. That's the norm at the major hospital on my campus (which is the best hospital in the state and has a top 10 medical school) and seems to be the case on this forum as well.

I don't intend to portray my work to be anything other than what it is. You know very, very little about what my research includes, as does Goro. I suspect that if I'm interviewing and I properly explain my research (much more than I'm willing to on a public forum) that adcoms will see that it absolutely does provide a service. I have a phenomenal PI who will not run a control group without providing them with some type of service, as he feels that would be disingenuous, and I have no problem articulating that.

I'm not criticizing your research. All I'm saying is that if you are deficient in volunteering, and you are asked about it, and you respond that your research is more meaningful than most volunteering experiences out there, I think there is a strong chance that AdCom members will respond with skepticism. The fact that Goro (an AdCom member) has brought this up as a concern should be a red flag to you. This is all hypothetical of course, and does not apply to you if you have sufficient volunteering.

 

[Goro]

Now this is something very different!

I'm taking a more conservative view of "clinical research because they can be what you do, and there's also the numbers crunching/data mining that more people seem to do, which doesn't actually involve patient contact. Yet, some people think because the word "clinical" is part of the phrase, it somehow counts as a patient contact experience.

I think you're assuming my research is something that it isn't lol. It's not indirect at all. Part of half of our studies includes motivational interviewing and self-determination theory....which is a lot more beneficial than bringing someone a cup of water.

Edit: volunteering isn't this altruistic service to patients that you're painting it to be. Most of the time, volunteers hardly interact with the patients and instead are doing grunt work as service to the hospital. You can have a much more meaningful impact on someone's life through clinical research, depending on what your research includes (and also what your volunteering includes).

 

[Affiche]

I'm not criticizing your research. All I'm saying is that if you are deficient in volunteering, and you are asked about it, and you respond that your research is more meaningful than most volunteering experiences out there, I think there is a strong chance that AdCom members will respond with skepticism. The fact that Goro (an AdCom member) has brought this up as a concern should be a red flag to you. This is all hypothetical of course, and does not apply to you if you have sufficient volunteering.

I'm not worried about my ECs 🙂

I just feel obligated though to clear up any misconceptions about what clinical research can include. I don't plan on ever comparing clinical research to volunteering unless someone is asking me what would provide a more meaningful experience, and even then I'd have to compare the specific experiences in question. I will openly say though that my clinical research has been more meaningful to me than any of my friends' experiences volunteering at our hospital. My point here is that not everyone may have the hours available to volunteer in a hospital and do clinical research, and you shouldn't be forced to feel like your influence is any less meaningful because you chose the clinical research route. I recognize that a lot of adcoms will value my research because of the leadership, teamwork and clinical exposure it gave me, but an adcom should recognize that I value my research because of the opportunity to have a positive impact on the lives of my participants! There are medical schools whose missions focus on outreach to the community, and I have no doubt that they'll see value in this type of research.

 

[Affiche]

Now this is something very different!

I'm taking a more conservative view of "clinical research because they can be what you do, and there's also the numbers crunching/data mining that more people seem to do, which doesn't actually involve patient contact. Yet, some people think because the word "clinical" is part of the phrase, it somehow counts as a patient contact experience.

I understand, thanks for clearing up!

There are definitely labs that we collaborate with that are considered "clinical", but they mostly just analyze our data and don't interact with the patients at all. That distinction should definitely be made here, so good on you! But anyone seriously considering this type of research should know that there are positions that require you to work 1:1 with patients 6/8 hours each day and teach you clinical skills, and these should be the positions you're looking for.

 

[pinkyyyy]

What is the difference between these categories? what do each of them mean and what are examples of things I can do to get experience for each category? And how many hours of each would be good for applications to Medical Schools?


1.Community service/volunteer: medical
2.Community service/volunteer: clinical
3.Community service/volunteer: not medical
4.Community service/volunteer: not clinical
5.Leadership
6.Physician shadowing/clinical observation
7.Paid employment: medical
8.Paid employment: clinical
9.Research/lab
10.Paid employment: not medical
11.Paid employment: not clinical
12.Teaching/tutoring/ teaching assistant

@bee17
@jambajuice100

 

[LizzyM]

What is the difference between these categories? what do each of them mean and what are examples of things I can do to get experience for each category? And how many hours of each would be good for applications to Medical Schools?


1.Community service/volunteer: medical
2.Community service/volunteer: clinical

AMCAS has a tag for volunteer clinical. there is no "volunteer medical" tag.
Volunteer service in close proximity to patients seeking/receiving clinical services provided under the supervision of a physician would be the definition of clinical volunteering

3.Community service/volunteer: not medical
4.Community service/volunteer: not clinical

AMCAS calls this volunteer non clinical. This is volunteer service in situations that do not involve patients. Some common types of service include youth mentoring, friendly visitor to the elderly, soup kitchen or food pantry, tutoring young kids who could not afford to pay for tutoring.

5.Leadership

team leader of a school-based organization, other activity that involves directing your peers to reach a mutual goal.

6.Physician shadowing/clinical observation

Observing a physician or other health care provider as they go about their duties.

7.Paid employment: medical
8.Paid employment: clinical

This is collapsed into one category in AMCAS. This would be where you are employed by a health care provider and you have direct face-to-face service to patients. Being employed as an phlebotomist, EMT, patient care technician, nurse's aide, diet aide, etc.

9.Research/lab

This can be paid or unpaid. This is a tag on the AMCAS application for experience. It can be any level of involvement from research tech to principal investigator.

10.Paid employment: not medical
11.Paid employment: not clinical

This is employment that is outside of a clinical environment and/or does not involve patient contact. Retail, food service, golf caddy, consulting, telephone solicitation.

12.Teaching/tutoring/ teaching assistant

Teaching K-12. Teaching assistant in a college course, Tutor of students at any level of education, Teaching Red Cross classes.

You don't have to cover all of them or need a specific number of hours in each. Do what interests you and let your application speak to your passion.

 

[pinkyyyy]

AMCAS has a tag for volunteer clinical. there is no "volunteer medical" tag.
Volunteer service in close proximity to patients seeking/receiving clinical services provided under the supervision of a physician would be the definition of clinical volunteering



AMCAS calls this volunteer non clinical. This is volunteer service in situations that do not involve patients. Some common types of service include youth mentoring, friendly visitor to the elderly, soup kitchen or food pantry, tutoring young kids who could not afford to pay for tutoring.



team leader of a school-based organization, other activity that involves directing your peers to reach a mutual goal.



Observing a physician or other health care provider as they go about their duties.


This is collapsed into one category in AMCAS. This would be where you are employed by a health care provider and you have direct face-to-face service to patients. Being employed as an phlebotomist, EMT, patient care technician, nurse's aide, diet aide, etc.


This can be paid or unpaid. This is a tag on the AMCAS application for experience. It can be any level of involvement from research tech to principal investigator.



This is employment that is outside of a clinical environment and/or does not involve patient contact. Retail, food service, golf caddy, consulting, telephone solicitation.


Teaching K-12. Teaching assistant in a college course, Tutor of students at any level of education, Teaching Red Cross classes.

You don't have to cover all of them or need a specific number of hours in each. Do what interests you and let your application speak to your passion.

Thank you for your response!

 

[pinkyyyy]

I have accumulated some hours (250 hours) in a Clinical Simulation Center, where I learned about medical terminology, medical procedures, and education techniques. I also participated in simulation-based healthcare education sessions.

Would this be considered as clinical/shadowing experience or a research/lab experience? When I make my medical school application which category should I put it under?
Also is an internship considered research/lab experience or does it depend?

 

[LizzyM]

I have accumulated some hours (250 hours) in a Clinical Simulation Center, where I learned about medical terminology, medical procedures, and education techniques. I also participated in simulation-based healthcare education sessions.

Would this be considered as clinical/shadowing experience or a research/lab experience? When I make my medical school application which category should I put it under?
Also is an internship considered research/lab experience or does it depend?

Were you making observations for the purpose of collecting data to make generalizations. If so, that might be called "research".
Was your purpose to "help out" as a volunteer in exchange for a learning experience? If so, you could call this a non-clinical volunteer experience.

Unless there were real live patients seeking health care in the room, I would not call this clinical.
There isn't a category called "internship". I'd call it volunteer or employment depending on whether it is a paid or unpaid experience and clinical or non-clinical depending on if you were close enough to smell pateints or not. If the main purpose of your activity there was to test hypotheses and generate generalizable new knowledge, then you can call it research.

 

[Dinobuh]

I have a clinical volunteership in a reputed hospital,which did kindle my interest more towards the field.However the period is short because such activities are very unusual and was not very much offered to any non-clinical people,especially shadowing with a doctor. Is the short period that I went through , a disadvantage? I find a lot of people working close to a year ,which I was not able to get.

 

[LizzyM]

I have a clinical volunteership in a reputed hospital,which did kindle my interest more towards the field.However the period is short because such activities are very unusual and was not very much offered to any non-clinical people,especially shadowing with a doctor. Is the short period that I went through , a disadvantage? I find a lot of people working close to a year ,which I was not able to get.

How long was the period in days/weeks and in total hours?