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What is the hardest job you've ever done?
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Stupid lag.
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Jinx, thank you my dear and God Bless you too! Wladziu, the road I'm talking about is the "international road" that connects Iraq with Syria and Jordan. It goes from West Baghdad to Falluja "the only inner-state we have there lol" just tell you how small the country is! But anyway, I know the road you're talking about too. BIAP is the "Baghdad International Airport Base" it's definately the fancy one, big base incudes camp liberty, camp victory, ect.. I have two first cousins in Iraqi Special Forces and they don't show much mercy when they get those outlaws! lol They tell me the americans don't like to beat those up but they don't understand how to deal with them!!! lol
As for the Fidayeen, as a citizen living there I heared alot of rumours and I believe it's true that they were forcing young men to go fight and al-qaeda did that too. When they control a village or an area they knock on your door asking for men that could fight, you get beheaded if you say no or lie. Alot of things americans don't know man. They don't understand that these people were terrorized! Imagine this, there is no police, no amry nothing, and then you have those alqaeda fighters very well trained and backed by regional countries and have so much money and power, and when you talk to the U.S. army or want to give them a tip they don't respond swiftly thinking you might work for al-qaeda too and if those fighters knew about you you're gone! I remember I had two neighbors who were coming with their cars had some blood stains here and there and my brother saw them taking an RPG once, we informed the U.S. army and they did nothing. People were stuck between a rock and a hard place, thats why they wont cooperate with americans because they will lose their lives by al-qaeda.
Look what happened in al-anbar provice when the TRIBES and THE PEOPLE of Anbar started fighting al-qaeda. In two months the attacks dropped by 95%!!!! What it took the marines, army, Iraqi army, special forces, CIA, Satelliates four years and couldn't do the job those simple people with proper arms and support did it in two months and now anbar is very safe.
When you go to war without good understanding about the culture, religion, and modern history and situation you will NEVER win. You will go with the "warrior" mentality seeing people as "targets" and these terrorists are smart, no uniforms, no flags they just mingle among civilians and attack americans, when you return fire you definately will kill innocent civilians and thats exactly what al-qaeda want you to do. Lose public support and turn the peoples against you.
What some soliders do, unfortunately, to justify their arrogance, start regarding those people as subhumans calling them "hajji" "camel jockey" "rag head" "towel head" I say you are no different than that Nazi's ideology about the jews. This war on terror is very easy to win but not with this strategy. The big brother who goes there and fix things himself without regard to people's cultures and feelings. With all the deadly mistakes done by politicians now al-qaeda is NOT an organization, it's an ideology now. Kill Usama bin laden, it's not gonna stop, it turned to an idea and way of life, hate the west and america. What started to be exclusive to certain radicals its becoming more and more "appealing" to some other people.
Nuke them, "go get them Johnny" , "toss'em to hell" , "turn their countries to parking lots", "shock and awe enjoy the bombs dropping on those hajjis heads but don't worry it's smart bombs and you still see civilians killed" with those slogans and mentality you will never win, read history, romans, nazis, communists did that yet all failed. The sad thing is those people call themselves americans, please be careful calling yourself that while you fully contadict everything about this country and its constituion.
Sorry for this long post, but sure here is my email [email protected] add me please. As far as tanks made of wood, I don't think I've heared that but you hear alot about how "cowards" americans are and those heroic things they (alqaeda and fidayeen) did that you can't find it anywhere but in epic of gilgamish and the gods of ancient greece! lol
Keep in touch man and God Bless!
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There's the speech you should give! That's what the people need to hear.
You've said it better than I ever could, and the only language I speak is English. Would you be interested in some public speaking or maybe publishing what you just wrote?
I wish I could take those words and shove them down so many throats. Not that it would work: too much groomed blood-lust with a paltry, immoral reward system, and a nation that'd rather point fingers than recognize guilt. So much to say, so much that wasn't supposed to happen.
Thank you for the words, brother. Now I know I'm not some weirdo. You've given me inspiration and hope, and I didn't think that was possible anymore.
The absolute best of luck to you and your family. Let me know if there's anything AT ALL that you need. It honors me to call you a friend.
[email protected]
You've said it better than I ever could, and the only language I speak is English. Would you be interested in some public speaking or maybe publishing what you just wrote?
I wish I could take those words and shove them down so many throats. Not that it would work: too much groomed blood-lust with a paltry, immoral reward system, and a nation that'd rather point fingers than recognize guilt. So much to say, so much that wasn't supposed to happen.
Thank you for the words, brother. Now I know I'm not some weirdo. You've given me inspiration and hope, and I didn't think that was possible anymore.
The absolute best of luck to you and your family. Let me know if there's anything AT ALL that you need. It honors me to call you a friend.
[email protected]
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Sometimes yes, and sometimes no. One strong-willed child in the midst of others can be tricky and stressful beyond words. And I'm no wimp. I might not be a big person, but I can certainly be tough where it counts.
Funny, I had this whole other involved thing I was going to go into, and I deleted it.
This is one of those things people have to find out for themselves. I find you can't just listen to a handful of people on this topic either; b/c you don't know what is going to come your way. Kids are more than blank tablets. Wow, they are so much the individuals, even from birth.
It's about more than love and being consistent and keeping house. Oy. Educating your kids is tough. It's a tough world to bring kids up in anymore. It's always been tough, but there is this pervasive narcissism that is running through our culture. Unless you keep your kids in a bubble, it's hard to avoid it....and they will have to come out of the bubble sometime.
You can never, ever eliminate the power of individual will and response. It shows up sooner or later with many. Putting your head in the sand doesn't help them or anyone IMHO. And they will make their own mistakes, and that goes with it.
What I've learned about this, and it really is a more than full-time plus job if you really are into as a calling of sorts, is that there are many good ideas to sound parenting, but they all will not work all the time the same way on each individual person-child. There is absolutely no easy as pie formula for it. There are guidelines and such; but you really don't get how demanding it can be--especially not until you get the child and situations that are really like monkey wrenches thrown into things.
You can have bad runs of things in the hospital for a couple of weeks or month or so, and think, "This is overwhelming! Will it ever get better?" But sometimes with kids and the whole monkey wrench phenomena, well, these can last a year or more--and you will be tried by fire for sure. If you haven't been, well, just smile, but understand that your kids may not find it so easy with some of theirs--even if they follow all or most of the best formulas.
It's kind of like how so many parents don't realize what a high percentage of drug abuse and addiction and such occurs in the middle and upper class settings. You won't find a kid that grows up in today's world that will not be seriously and repeatedly exposed to it--even if you are not ever aware of it. That and sex and SDS, etc. Guess what? They sure are. This is not (What is that old show?) Mayberry RFD anymore.
So many Americans are out of touch truly with what's going on with their kids, or even if there is underlying depression, and so many other things going on. It's so amazing. Work with a lot of teens from all walks of life; you will get such an "Aha" picture. It's often so sad. I've had more kids come to me from the "best" and "nicest" of homes. If only their parents really knew--well, maybe some of them would really care, others wouldn't so much, and finally there are those that embrace denial land. Denial Land such a nice, happy place to live. (BTW, I am in no way referring to anyone personally; so understand that it's a generalization based on a good number of experiences. It is just that I truly know many parents would be shocked if they knew all of what goes on with their kids or teens--or they would become angry if they had to break through denial to face things that aren't so pretty about their own children. As an example, in fact, most kids that have been sexually molested never tell their parents. And 1 in 3-4 girls is sexually molested or abused, and 1 in 6 to 1 in 7 boys is sexually molested or abused. Mostly if they aren't somehow scared or intimidated or manipulated, they are just too embarrassed to broach it. It's easier to suppress and repress.)
Also, you know, not every kid that ends up in really challenging situations or in making some really bad choices comes from a home where the parents are/were as the Yiddish term goes, facocked. A kid can go to private school or be homeschooled and goes and gets his or her first job. Boom, they are exposed to others, and others will have an influence over him or her. To what degree depends on the individual person and perhaps the way they were raised. But you could have multiple kids that were raise similarly in the same family, and each one of those kids could react quite differently. There is the power of the individual and at least some significant level of free will and genetics. Perhaps not all of personality is innate-nature; but a lot of it is. Truly I've have seen this even with animals. We've bred pure bred dogs, and I have seen it among the pups. It's kind of amazing.
That's why it's wise not to judge. Until you truly walk in another's footsteps with whatever they have been given, you're really just guessing what it's like. It's kind of like guessing about what it is like to fly a fighter plane in the worst of battles.
I say all this, and I love that I am a parent. However, I stand by my position. It is the hardest job in more ways than I can count. You spend a huge, on-going part of your life investing in perhaps one, two, or a handful of people.
Listen, patients and students, customers, clients come and go. But this parenthood is like being Aristotle for a VERY long, continually intensive period. Along with it there comes a very high level of accountability in my view. Of course I am referring to the full range of parenting and not merely procreating--or even difficult labor or being up all night with sick tots. Really a lot of that was fun--as was pre-school and school-age. It's the advent of the hormonal rage and peer dominion where it often gets quite tricky; but even much of that can be fun, yet also kind of frightening.
I can honestly say I've invested my life into my children, and I do not regret it. I've kept a nice home, contributed to the income and worked hard, taught my kids. Usually when I cook, I don't just pop something in the microwave or grill. But then I enjoy gourmet cooking, and I'm a bit of a health nut, so that takes time and effort. I could write tomes of the things I've done with my children and family. And then I would have to include the many tragedies and extended family responsibilities that come into life in the process of doing all this--those huge and grave life interruptions and going back to school and so many other things. It makes it tough to compartmentalize how it is all supposed to go. When I stood still and thought about it the other day, all the demands, joys, responsibilities flooded in, and I realized, it's more than a lot when fully tallied up.
Perhaps I'm a bit different than some, b/c I see parenthood as a kind of sacred honor and awesome responsibility. And a lot of times you are busy doing in when only the little ones are watching you, and you aren't getting all the external praise and rewards or financial compensation. You go to work as whatever, and you are "on." It's "lights, camera, and action!" RL daily 24/7 accountability parenting teaches a person that really wants to know a lot about himself or herself. It's a lot of who you really are when no one else is looking--other than those little ones--who often don't miss too much--even if they don't early on know what it is that they aren't missing.
In fact in parenting, it may be a role where you may not see the bulk of your reward until your children become parents. So you could go 25 - 30 years or more before you see the full fruit of what you have spent a lifetime investing in--that person--that character--that individual--that contributor to society.
It's not just about procreating, labor, diapers, little league, vacations, and piano lessons. Wow. No way. You get one shot at it with being this sort of loving yet strong Aristotle to each kid.
So many roles, positions, jobs, professions demand that people really put their families as secondary. That's messed up, and I think our society will continue to pay for that false belief. You can be great in other roles and still put your family in the top priority zone. It might get tricky at times, but it's a choice. And it doesn't make you less in ANY role--whether it is physician, teacher, nurse, fireman, businessman, or president. Sometimes it might mean deciding against vying for top position as chief of CT surgery or CEO, if you really want to be a dynamic part of the long-term investment called parenting. It's a choice, and it is one you will take with you to the grave.
No one really cares as they die if they were the greatest neurosurgeon in the world or how long into the future their stock options will really pay out. I doubt even if they spend a lot of time considering what awards they have ever won. I watched and talked with people right before they have died. That's not what is going on with them. They think of how much of themselves they gave intimately to others and how others were blessed by it--whether they have had this or not. They think of the love they have shared with others. . . .Or the love they thought they had lost--or the divorce that still saddens them, or the lack of bonding or impact with their children they have had.
Wow. It turns out Steve Covey was right after all. When we want to figure out what is really valuable and important in life, we should spend some time imagining our own funeral. I take it a step back to imagining our own deathbed scenes. It used to be said there are two things you can't avoid in life: death and taxes. I say it's death, taxes, and how we lived and loved with family and others. LOL, no matter where you go, family will always find you. After all, they say you choose your friends but can't choose your family for a reason. J
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That's great, but that doesn't make it a job. It's your personal life.
What would you think if you asked me what the hardest job in the world was, and I said "being a bachelor. I come home to an empty apartment every night, and there's no one there to talk to. As a bachelor, you don't have any close emotional supports. Everything that needs to be done, YOU have to do--and you have to do it by yourself. Want dinner? YOU have to make it--and then do the dishes. Alone. Is there cleaning to be done, bills to be paid, laundry, grocery shopping? You have to do it all. When you're on rotations that leave you virtually no spare time, you still have to make sure to pay the bills and balance the checkbook, because no one else will notice them. If you need to take your car to the mechanic, you have no built-in person to give you a ride to school or take you back to pick it up when it's done. Yes, it sure is tough having no help in life. So being a bachelor is the toughest job."
You'd think I had missed the point, right? Because there is no job called "being a bachelor." It's not a job. It's just life. So it is with parenting. Raising children may well be harder in some sense than a factory job where all you do is pull a lever every time a product comes down the conveyor belt, but that doesn't change the fact that it's not a job.
BTW, I've never been in the military, but I must say that even more ridiculous than calling parenting the hardest "job you've ever done" is the implication that it's harder than being in combat. Let me know when your kids start shooting at you.
No offense, but I'm not talking about doing tours in the military. I have more respect for that than I can communicate here.
I am talking a total lifetime gig--where you spend a good 18-21 years at least at full-time service and availability. Until you have given yourself totally to it for a lifetime, I'm sorry you really have NO idea what you are talking about.
Having children as well as marriage is not simply having a personal life--like hanging with your buds and shooting pool or playing golf. (Although, lol, for some people they are so into golf, you'd think it was a full-time deal for them.)
It's NOT at all like that. Marriage, family, children = LOADS OF WORK, WORK, WORK.
Maybe the "chicks" you went to medical school for sense that you don't even have the foggiest clue or sensitivity to this; thus they write you off as non-husband-famly material. I don't know.
But I do know you haven't a clue what you are talking about.
I never said I knew firsthand about being in active duty or battle. My father was good with relating that; and he used a lot of the things he learned, and he grafted them well into parenting. If he were still alive, that strong yet awesome USMC Sgt, an utterly wonderful man/father, would tell you that parenthood and family is a whole different, LONG-TERM full-time-plus job. It's more than a job; it is still a lot of work on multiple levels. There are times you have to dig down deep as far as you can go and pray to pull out something more from somewhere.
And last I studied what energy was, it was very basically the ability to do work. If you don't think you need loads of physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual energy to raise a family and keep a marriage strong, there is NO way you will even begin to appreciate it by anything I say or anyone else says. You won't appreciate it until you are in it.
Sadly, like many a female has had to find out, they end up carrying the bulk of it--a major problem in our society by my research and study. Problems with fathers just not being there enough as real leaders and guides and teachers for their children is a huge issue. I am always amazed by how many people are raised without strong, involved, mentoring, loving fathers. Yes maybe their daddies provided for them, gave them things, went on some vacations with them, but they weren't really close mentors/leaders with their children. It has produced a very handicapped society of people in my view. I fear strong, loving fatherhood is becoming a dying art form. But that's a discussion for another thread or MB.
I have to laugh Trig, because like some other things, honestly and rather sadly, you are clueless and pittifully stuck in that state.
Furthermore simply because a job is hard DOES NOT mean it's bad or awful or something to be avoided. Personally I believe people were made to work--life is work. And yep, life is hard. At various time, or in general, for some life can be harder than others. But no one is getting out of this life unscathed.
If you don't think there are rewards, expectations, all kinds of consequences, along with great investments of time and energy--physical and otherwise, and all that goes well beyond 8, 12, 16, or 32 hour shifts, you are completely incorrect. It doesn't matter if every day is like that or not. And no, many people don't take on striving to educate their children at home. My mother and father did, and my siblings and I went to a great public school and they had a younger, handicapped child.
I've educated my children, especially while doing other things. It's involved. I know I have no need to try to justify any of it to you. But it's this and many other aspects of parenting that make it a huge commitment. It might be one thing when your kids are gone six hours a day at school; but there is still a lot to parenting if you strive to do the job well. My parents didn't formally teach us at home, but they spent many hours working with us and teaching us.
Also, even if you are fortunate to have a great nanny to help with a lot of the work and provision of care and supervision with kids, there is a lot of commitment to teaching and supporting them, guiding them, living by example, planning, dealing with any myriad of issues that arise with them. Wow. . .again, you have no idea.
ROTFLOL. . .comparing it to being a bachelor and shopping and doing laundry. . . lol . . .
And maybe you think you will park your kids in front of the TV or some game-system all day.
Dude I can see how the poor woman that takes you as a husband is going to carry the bulk of responsibility. Two words: Oy Vey.
Sure some may have a slightly different perspective on this. Some people have children with fairly easy going personalities. (I've seen some that are--at least as they present to everyone else.) Or perhaps they have good, balanced support between BOTH parents. If that is the case, that's great.
Raising children and building a family is the greatest long-term commitment and life's work you will ever do in many ways--and if you screw it up, you just can't start over--although I know some that have tried. They dump the old family, find someone else and have children with them. Their first set of kids grow up with much resentment and some major issues. There are always long-term ramifications.
I won't waste anymore time on this with you; b/c I have already seen in other threads that you are inflexible and stubbornly dig your heels in and think gaining another perspective somehow means death rather than growth to you. Really that's being kind; since I've seen such on-going, online attention-seeking behavior before. No thanks.
So, at this point, though I've really never used this function anywhere before, I am going to choose to use the ignore fx where you are concerned.
You see, you had previously made your point here in opposition. I, however, was sharing something in light of what some other people (Who ARE actual parents.) have shared.
I'm not interested in some on-going pi$$ing contests with you, whether in this thread or any other. You have your perspective; and I've mine, and that really is that.
Uh. . . later Mr. Tris, Mr. T, whatever.
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I never knew how hard my parents worked, how much they sacrificed, until I became a parent. I sent my parents a thank you note after my children were born.
And as to the folks who are not parents who think it's easy... nothing will change their minds. They have no frame of reference.
And as to the folks who are not parents who think it's easy... nothing will change their minds. They have no frame of reference.
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I don't think anyone here said that being a parent was easy. What I said was... one more time... IT'S. NOT. A. JOB.
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As a parent, I agree. No matter what, it is not a job. You can get fired from a job, you can't really get fired from being a parent. And you are a parent whether or not you want to be or not and if you choose to be or not.
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This thread has somehow broken down into an argument over semantics. How do you define "job"? For those of you who define job simply as paid employment, then no, parenting is not paid employment. But it appears that most parents on this thread use the definition of job as duty or responsibility, in which case parenting is most definitely a job. Everyone has the right to their own opinions, so let's agree to disagree and move on.
Now please, can we get back to the job descriptions of (still my favorite on this thread) porn-palace-floor-mopper-upper?
Peace.
Now please, can we get back to the job descriptions of (still my favorite on this thread) porn-palace-floor-mopper-upper?
Peace.
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As the OP I agree with jinx. My original purpose of this thread is to see if we, as non-trads, need to fear medical school. Most of us have already gone through things that would make traditional students cringe with fear. I wondered if medical school could be worse.
The parenting discussion is a distraction from this, because those of us who are parents will still be parents while we go to medical school. So extolling the greatness of mothers or minimizing their contributions is simply a PC non-sequitor towards the purpose of the thread.
I'm of the opinion, and the posts on this thread seem to confirm this to me, that medical school is a real bear for people who have never had to work 60 hour weeks for months at a time. Fortunately, many non-trad students have done this many times.
You wanna bet? Can too. Seen it happen more than once--and with some parents that were actually very good. Listen there is no re-dos here.
Anyway a lot of what you are saying is exactly why it is a job + PLUS. You can walk away from it; but it will come back to haunt you and THE OTHERS INVOLVED.
Now you can walk a way from a job, position, and even profession, and it may or may not come back to haunt you or others involved. Mostly though, regardless, business as usual will carry on; since no one is really irreplaceable. The impact of excellent parenting is irreplaceable.
For some folks it comes down to life philosophy and worldview I think.
But plenty of people get fired, layed-off, quit, phased out, retire, whatever, and they may go through some mourning and humps, but they move on and get another position or do something else.
Again, if you facock it up with parenting, you might be able to rebound somewhat before you die; but SO MUCH of the damage is done, and it's done for a lifetime. No re-dos or do-overs really.
I agree. We often don't value them as they should be valued until we are adults and have our own kids.
You are right. For some it's limited frame of reference. And when you are trying to do it well when all kinds of "life" happens your way; wow. It's a lot. When you are dealing with tragedy and other major life stressors, you can change a job, perhaps reduce work hours, take a leave of absence. You just can't really do that with children and family. Each stage of development requires a lot of care and attention. They don't stop going through those stages and all the needs and demands just b/c life has thrown you some really really grueling, demanding things. It doesn't work that way.
The "distraction" was not meant by all or most of the respondents, IMHO, to be as such. For a number of us, well, it was just a very core, honest response. Not unlike perhaps those that refer to military experiences, etc.
There will be tones and biases that will come in, all based on each person's own subjective experiences. That's what makes discussion boards, well, discussion boards.
And really Ed, that kind of subjective perspectives on experiences seems definitely true for medicine as well.
As a person that's worked closely with attendings, residents, fellows, and medical students over the years, my non-firsthand perception--and based on the general difference in demeanor between the two--medical students and residents/fellows, is that MS can be tough, but residency and + is really a lot tougher.
Maybe I've worked with some really excellent students that didn't struggle with the bookwork. By and large though when I've seen the demeanor change a lot, well, it is often during residency.
And sure, many residents are pleasant, funny even (humor is a great coping mechansim--I love the funny, yet on-the-ball residents/fellows), interesting, and really eager to do a great job and are just great people with which to work.
Maybe it's a little different perspective in the critical care units with nurses and residents/fellows compared with some other areas. I don't know. But many seem truly changed from MS through to residency and usually in a good way--though NOT without being seriously stressed. It's like all things. There's a big difference from didactic learning compared with clinical application; but really both are necessary.
Mostly I think they feel beat up a bit and run ragged. (I had to really smile when I read the thread on why more female med. students don't wear make-up. Some of these folks are lucky if they get to put a tooth brush anywhere near their teeth for hours and hours on end when they become residents. . . so. . .)
It has changed somewhat since I first became a nurse. There was a time when 80 hrs was not the stop point but 100 + hrs per week was. And honestly, for surgery, it's still super hard and long IMHO.
I am honest enough with myself to know surgery is not the direction I will be going. Plus I truly think there is a certain talent that grows with skills-building, but it seems clear to me that surgeons must have that special touch and adeptness.
There are a number of nurses that actually end up really disliking surgeons in general. That hasn't been me. They have a special place in my mind and soul--and I've seen a lot of the stuff they have to do and put up with--and it just goes with the territory. You have to really want that and have the potential for it. It truly isn't for everyone.
Anyway, please return to the horrors of flipping burgers or undue stress of stocking shelves, lol. In comparison with many things I've done, well, those things may be boring as all get out, but to me they aren't tough jobs. Also, what makes a job tough can be in the working and dealing with all kinds of people. The people factor can push the stress way off the charts--and generally I like people and dealing with them. It just gets demanding and tricky in light of everything else you may have to do or are responsible for. And unless you go into pathology or radiology, that kind of stress factor in dealing with people will be there--in your face--as you deal with a thousand other major things.
Other jobs.. .well, my brother worked in the 100+ heat on nuclear reactors--getting eaten by massive numbers of misquitoes and what not. That seemed like a pretty sucky job. Of course what really made it bite was the fact that he was a brainiac, but it helped to pay his school and other bills.
One of my first jobs out of high school and while in college was in a rather horrid nursing home and being given a dozen or more geriatric pts that could do absolutely nothing for themselves and some of then having very scary, bizzare, abusive dementia. Some of them were physically violent and surprisingly strong, and I was all of 108 lbs petite trying to deal with them in a caring, respectful manner. But it wasn't until I actually watched the others to see how it was that they were able to get all the care done and make everything look "good" on the surface.
Well, mostly they were harsh and bullied the poor pts and tossed them around like sacs of potatoes. There are horror stories from so many of these nursing homes, it isn't funny.
So, I decided that after nursing school, I wouldn't work in them again.
I did work in psych and adolecent psych and substance abuse tx as well after doing my psych rotations in college, while also working as a nurses aide in a hospital (infinitely easier than the nursing home), and also while taking agency work on the side--all while going to school FT and having a husband and my first baby. (I married while in college--19--still married to the same man.)
And for the worst RN position, well that's kind of hard, b/c each area was tough in different ways and depended on the unit, staff, and the way the unit was managed--leadership.
One of the best RN ICU roles was a CT-SICU where they ran everything like a post-anesthesia military operation. I didn't think I would fit in at first; b/c of being a little more right-brained and free-spirited compared with what I was seeing there; but it turned out to be an awesome experience. They had a rhyme and reason for everything they did; and the outcomes for patients were probably the best I've seen in any such unit since. So hooray for the military influence there. The pts did great--excellent numbers and pt-family satisfaction in experiences and outcomes.
Working nonstop with patients while donned in full-gear for isolation and when the back-up generator in the hospital is all that's running, and climate control is dead, and it's 90+ degrees and humid as all get out is fun. And then it gets better because there are problems with the vent not cycling properly, and you are constantly titrating gtts and shooting hemodynamic parameters and hanging blood and what not---and of course the freaking central lines are used up by pressors and such--and the one free port is clotted and you can't draw from it--and of course b/c the pt's liver is hit, now the pt has a coagulopathy and is oozing everywhere. So you are trying to keep up with the intra-aortic balloon pump and CVVH/CVVHDm b/c the pt's pressure is too low and then of course the pt temp is>40 C, and you can't keep up with the bags of ice melting everywhere. . . And then the surgeon is fixing to re-open the chest, and there is no room for OR support to set things up. So 20 people are jammed in a unit room and between the machinery, all the people, and the failing AC, well it makes it like a literal hell on earth. That's a good time too.
We can't really know and appreciate the experience of med. school/residency, etc until we each actually go through it. And each person will have their own sets of variables, which will affect their interpretation of the experiences. The best anyone can seem to say with any real objectivity is that it's a huge commitment and is hour-upon-hour, day-upon-day, demanding.
Honestly, I can't say that I sense that MOST of the physicians I've ever worked with regretted going to medical school and the whole shabang.
Yes. Truly there are some. And then maybe I"ve just blocked out those that seemed constantly negative; but honestly most of those I work/I've worked with know it's very demanding but like it nonetheless.
They might not like all the hours, paperwork, ridiculous BS, lack of sleep, not being able to pee at times when necessary, or the political, communication/psychosocial distress--there is more of this in a hospital setting than many people realize. They may not like the pay and legal fears, etc; but mostly the one's I've had the pleasure of working with actually like a lot of what they do.
I've worked with many good people that are pretty much into it. . .so . . . perhaps that will also include you one day.
Take care.
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Sorry to contribute to the continued derailing of this thread, but I gotta ask ... when does parenting get hard? When you add that fourth kid? When they're teenagers? Granted, I've only been at this gig for about two years, but so far, it's been pretty easy. Parenting a baby and then a toddler has involved a lot of tasks, and some of them are tedious to be sure, but exactly none of it has been hard.
Also, just to add a little more fuel to the fire, clearly parenting isn't a job. Nonsense. It's a relationship. Like wife. Wife isn't a job either. I'm mystified by the idea that being married is hard work. Wha??? In my (now eight years of) experience, it's far easier and more joy-filled than being single. Of course, you hear people say this all the time, that being married is hard work, and I always wonder what people are talking about? What's so hard? What's the work? I really don't get it.
On the other hand, being an intern is kicking my butt. Medical school, pretty damn easy with the exception of a month here or there. Internship, not so much.
Also, just to add a little more fuel to the fire, clearly parenting isn't a job. Nonsense. It's a relationship. Like wife. Wife isn't a job either. I'm mystified by the idea that being married is hard work. Wha??? In my (now eight years of) experience, it's far easier and more joy-filled than being single. Of course, you hear people say this all the time, that being married is hard work, and I always wonder what people are talking about? What's so hard? What's the work? I really don't get it.
On the other hand, being an intern is kicking my butt. Medical school, pretty damn easy with the exception of a month here or there. Internship, not so much.
That part of parenting you mentioned is involved at times and it's still is a job, but for me that part was quite doable and usually not overwhelming--even with a colicky baby and another in school and another running around getting into everything, lol. All pretty doable; but people say that part does get more challenging for some with age. So when it comes to the tiny, busy ones, the younger some people are, the easier it may seem to them.
It's when the kids get a little older--for different kids its a little earlier in teens and for others, it's a little later. And as it so happens, just as their desired gifts get more expensive, in a similar way, their concerns, needs, projects, involvements, hormonal and irritability issues, and friends all get more complex--and at times quite expensive as well.
So when they are spread out in age and you are working, going to school, teaching, and have a lot on your plate-- your parents both with major diseases and a grandparent that you must help care for, b/c the one parent caring for her is recovering for months on end from major spinal surgery, and the other is dying of one heck of a nasty butt cancer, and there are extended family complexities, and you have a chronic, serious illness yourself, well, it really adds the heck up and takes a toll.
And b/c it's a 24/7 accountability/involvement job ++, you can't just walk away from it when life gets overwhelming, or your job sucks, or you want to call in sick, or for any other number of reasons or things.
That's the funny thing about life. As we get past mid 20's or so, our responsibilies get more complex as well--and complications and extra stressors rain down in mass.
But enough on this. . .
It's supposed go back to comparing working on oil rigs (Anyone add that yet?) and nuclear reactors to stocking shelves and mopping floors in porn palaces. *shrug* So be it.
I held three jobs(one full time and 2 part time) with full time college for 2 years. I worked at a restaurant(50+ hours), at a gas station(Monday from 12pm-12am) and at a 7Eleven(Friday thru Sunday- grave yard shifts from 11pm-10am). I took 12 credit hours(all on campus) each term including summer. Friday thru Sunday shift was the worst. I used to work from Friday 11am to Sunday 10pm with short naps during breaks at work(at restaurant). There was no sleep at 7Eleven as I was the only one working at night. I took classes in between work. Unbelievable, right? When I think about it now, I can't believe that I survived it. But the good thing about this is that I finished college with 3.1 cGPA; no student loans and some extra cash in my pocket.
But the good thing about this is that I finished college with 3.1 cGPA; no student loans and some extra cash in my pocket.
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I held three jobs(one full time and 2 part time) with full time college for 2 years. I worked at a restaurant(50+ hours), at a gas station(Monday from 12pm-12am) and at a 7Eleven(Friday thru Sunday- grave yard shifts from 11pm-10am). I took 12 credit hours(all on campus) each term including summer. Friday thru Sunday shift was the worst. I used to work from Friday 11am to Sunday 10pm with short naps during breaks at work(at restaurant). There was no sleep at 7Eleven as I was the only one working at night. I took classes in between work. Unbelievable, right? When I think about it now, I can't believe that I survived it.
Your post reminds me that when I was stocking supermarket shelves overnight on the weekends, I was also working full-time at an unpaid internship and taking two grad classes. Monday I'd get up in the morning and go into my internship, leave around 5 and go straight to class, not getting home until maybe 10 PM. Tuesday, same thing. Wednesday and Thursday were normal work days. Friday I'd get home, take a short nap, then go into work at the supermarket overnight. Sleep all day Saturday, work at the supermarket overnight again, sleep half the day on Sunday, then go back to work at the internship Monday morning. With that small amount of spare time I had to squeeze in studying for my classes, which I wasn't very successful at doing. Theoretically, I also had a girlfriend at this time; though it was long-distance and I didn't see her for about 3 months straight. Not long after the internship started paying me and so I was able to quit the supermarket job, she broke up with me.
And you know what, all those who say I'm too negative and biased? That was harder than med school. I'd take med school over that any day. (But of course, if I had a choice, I'd still take a regular 9-to-5 job over medical school.)
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I have FOUR CHILDREN currently ranging from 21 to 6. Cry me a river if you want to think I don't have experience in this matter as a parent. Of the entire group of kids, no one has been thrown in jail, they don't drink or do drugs, or smoke. One of the four is currently working as a pharmacy tech, another is proudly serving our country in the AF. The other two are too young to do much yet.
I'm more than aware that someone can screw up being a parent but that can happen whether they are there or not. You can even have people threaten to take away your children as Child Protective Services threatened to do to me. Do you want to know why they threatened? Because I was a college student and god forbid one would actually want a parent (or stepparent) to FINISH an education. I also lived in a conservative area and had a different worldview and different life experiences than the religious nutcases around here. They want you to be barefoot and pregnant all the time. If you aren't popping out those kids or if you are dreaming of doing something else with your life, you are in trouble and they report your butt for being a bad parent.
The fact that someone is fertile and proves it or that someone happens to get lucky in the genetic lottery or that someone marries someone with kids or goes off to acquire children via adoption or whatever, does not make it a job. It is a time consuming *non-job* that one cannot truly get out of. And you're right, there are no do-overs. There are rarely do-overs in many industries, including the one I left.
Medical schools (and graduate schools, law schools, etc) often state that if you are accepted into the program, you will not be allowed to hold a job. YET, parents are accepted to medical school all the time or students become parents during school. Sounds like the medical schools don't consider it a job either. Again, time consuming *non-job*.
The question that was asked was about jobs. Hardest job. The OP has stated they were looking for job, not parenting. That implies employment. I can't put being a parent on a resume (although my involvement in the PTA could be considered something.)
Now get back to the point of the thread. I want to read what other jobs from hell other non-trads have had. Some of them make me feel better about the conditions I worked.
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edlongshanks,
3rd year of med school was the worst "job" I ever did, because of the verbal abuse, pressure and lack of time to sleep while still trying to find any time at all to study so as not to look like a ***** on rounds the next day. Closely following this would be 2nd year of med school and intern year, in no particular order. Following this would be 2nd year of residency (at least the "wards" months).
And I think you'll find med school challenging even if you have had a "real" job before.
3rd year of med school was the worst "job" I ever did, because of the verbal abuse, pressure and lack of time to sleep while still trying to find any time at all to study so as not to look like a ***** on rounds the next day. Closely following this would be 2nd year of med school and intern year, in no particular order. Following this would be 2nd year of residency (at least the "wards" months).
And I think you'll find med school challenging even if you have had a "real" job before.
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My overall suckiest paid "job" was a brief stint as a telemarketer type...it was for a charity...but it was STILL telemarketing, and people hated me. I probably have a need for approval - maybe that's one of the reasons I'm a doctor and maybe that's what made this job particularly intolerable for me.
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Me, too! I actually had 3 different telemarketer jobs, and they all were horrible. Good hours and decent pay for a no skill having person, but yeah still miserable. The worst one was selling long distance plans that were linked with right wing and fundamentalist charities and organizations. You'd call for some random ministry, and people would ask you to ask whoever ran the ministry to pray for their sick kid. The funny thing was that the employees were about the most tattoed and pierced group I've seen -- I imagine most of the people we were calling would freak if they knew what the person they were talking to looked like.
I have to wonder if this is some sort of angry defense mechanism. I can assure you, many have it, especially when it comes to parenting.
Environment is merely geography. And yours is a limited view IMO. What's more, good for you as you rationalize some form of compartmentalization when it comes to this area called parenting.
Furthermore, b/c of your extreme reaction and anger and perhaps your own rationalizations, you missed where I at least twice kicked this thread back to making it about mere "jobs." Read carefully and you will see it.
Also you can read whatever you'd like--not one person posting in this thread is stopping you; and if necessary, you can employ the ignore feature as I have done with a certain poster.
See freedom is a good thing.
I stand by my original perspectives fully. They are quite legitimate. You might want to reconsider them a little more deeply; b/c as I said, in this on-going role and JOB, ther are NO do overs, period.
ROTFLOL. . .I just read your profile, which, along with other interesting factors, states that you are 28. So, how does a 28 year old have a 21 year old along with the 3 others? Yes they or at least some of them could be your partners, but I'd say by math, when you were 7 you didn't take much part in the raising of some of them. . .especially 21 y.o. Come on already.
Reality and realistic perspective is everything.
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Did you work while you were in med school? I ask this since mostly this is not the general feedback I get (or have gotten) from residents. They may admit med school is challenging; but they seemed to find the demands of residency harder--but also, I'm also referring to those that shared as much prior to 2003 and the ACGME changes for residency hours--so that may be a definite factor. Also keep in mind that I've worked with a lot of surgical residents and fellows--and to me, that seems to make a difference.
I don't actually know if anyone polled this here of residents recently; but it would be interesting for them to weigh in on this to share what they feel over all was harder--or list as much in a decending order as you have done.
I'd also like to know the types of residencies of the physicians.
Actually Ed's question is really good; but I think I'd like to see a recent thread where physicians in residency or just out of residency weigh in on this. I think this could be quite helpful for some of us.
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I held three jobs(one full time and 2 part time) with full time college for 2 years. I worked at a restaurant(50+ hours), at a gas station(Monday from 12pm-12am) and at a 7Eleven(Friday thru Sunday- grave yard shifts from 11pm-10am). I took 12 credit hours(all on campus) each term including summer. Friday thru Sunday shift was the worst. I used to work from Friday 11am to Sunday 10pm with short naps during breaks at work(at restaurant). There was no sleep at 7Eleven as I was the only one working at night. I took classes in between work. Unbelievable, right? When I think about it now, I can't believe that I survived it.
lol...u sound like me in college, only 2 jobs though but took 19-20 credit hours each quarter and came out with no loans and cash in my pocket. My life is still crazy now cuz i work full time and have these classes with lab. There are days i leave my house and i'm out for about 30hrs or more. there were times this past semester the only sleep i'd had between tuesday morning and friday afternoon was about 4hrs. I keep a change of regular clothes, scrubs for work and my work shoes in my trunk. i've school during the day, i mean all day from phys with lab, break, ochem with lab, then 2hr break where i eat, change in my car and take a short nap or do my lab report at the hospitals library then work overnight till about 8. some days i stay for a meeting, somedays i leave work and head straight to school for bio lab or whatever before heading home. Work is soo stressful...it makes school a seem like piece of cake. one more semester of being busy and i should be fine.
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ROTFLOL. . .I just read your profile, which, along with other interesting factors, states that you are 28. So, how does a 28 year old have a 21 year old along with the 3 others? Yes they or at least some of them could be your partners, but I'd say by math, when you were 7 you didn't take much part in the raising of some of them. . .especially 21 y.o. Come on already.
Reality and realistic perspective is everything.
You should consider your own world view since you are obviously severely limited in what makes a family so you'll forgive me if I sound insulted.
I was betrothed at 17 and married at 18 to someone 22 years my senior who had three kids. Try parenting a kid when you are only 7 years older than the eldest and getting to deal with "You're not my momma!" issues all while just barely being an adult yourself (and with no younger sibling/ child experience). The child who is in the military is exactly 10 years to the day younger than me. My wedding was basically "I do" and then "By the way, you've just inherited three kids. Have fun!" I was like "Whaaaaa??"
. You couldn't depend on my mostly absent partner's (their father) to do anything nor their drug addicted biological mother. Where did it a good chunk of the burden of parenting fall? Me. Because of the kids, I was considered a non-trad even during undergrad, I have no idea what it is like to be a traditional student since I've always had family responsibilities.The fact I only went through labour for one of the four, does not make them any less my children since I was taking care of them and had to deal with everything from the terrible 2s of the youngest stepchild to the various jr high and then high school crap. And I did that while going to school, working, publishing, volunteering, and basically being "Super Mom" as my undergraduate advisor used to call me etc. Was it time consuming? Yes. Was it difficult? Yes. Was it unlike almost anything else I experienced until that point? Definitely. Did I give up or postpone a lot of stuff to do it so that these kids wouldn't grow up to be a burden on society? Yes. Was it all fun and games? Hardly. Was it work/employment? No.
Hardest job for me still the consulting gig, which as the other posters are reminding me also included a form of telemarketing (sort of.) The telemarketing like part was so traumatizing, that I did everything I could to forget about.
You should consider your own world view since you are obviously severely limited in what makes a family so you'll forgive me if I sound insulted.
I was betrothed at 17 and married at 18 to someone 22 years my senior who had three kids. Try parenting a kid when you are only 7 years older than the eldest and getting to deal with "You're not my momma!" issues all while just barely being an adult yourself (and with no younger sibling/ child experience). The child who is in the military is exactly 10 years to the day younger than me. My wedding was basically "I do" and then "By the way, you've just inherited three kids. Have fun!" I was like "Whaaaaa??"
The fact I only went through labour for one of the four, does not make them any less my children since I was taking care of them and had to deal with everything from the terrible 2s of the youngest stepchild to the various jr high and then high school crap. And I did that while going to school, working, publishing, volunteering, and basically being "Super Mom" as my undergraduate advisor used to call me etc. Was it time consuming? Yes. Was it difficult? Yes. Was it unlike almost anything else I experienced until that point? Definitely. Did I give up or postpone a lot of stuff to do it so that these kids wouldn't grow up to be a burden on society? Yes. Was it all fun and games? Hardly. Was it work/employment? No.
Hardest job for me still the consulting gig, which as the other posters are reminding me also included a form of telemarketing (sort of.) The telemarketing like part was so traumatizing, that I did everything I could to forget about.
LOL, wow. . .you are going to keep going with this. Um. . .whatever. Also has some credibility issues with regard to other things you have posted. . .but again. . .whatever.
Mine was and is work and major commitment and sacrifice. That's marriage and family. You re-tell your "experience" your way. I know what it is for me. Wouldn't trade it; but it's like trying to describe some types of nursing to people, or for others, what medicine is more like. People won't believe it until they go through it, and some won't get it until it's way too late and they missed the boat big time on certain things.
Let me get this straight. Telemarketing is traumatizing, yet parenting isn't a FT++ job and then some. Alrighty then. Like I said. . .whatever.
As I said earlier, worldviews may be a serious factor.
I can play gullible. Anything is possible on the Internet. That should be a slogan for some websites. I know not to trust everything going on over the Internet and on MBs.
OTOH sometimes reality can make the best "fiction."
So, I hope the best for you. We just have very different views. That's basically it, end of story.
Already changed directions. Keeping it that way. Not going to respond to back and forth replies, since the points I wanted to make were made. Sorry.
Each will believe whatever they want. People are sharing. I've shared my perspective, so that's all.
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You should consider your own world view since you are obviously severely limited in what makes a family so you'll forgive me if I sound insulted.
I was betrothed at 17 and married at 18 to someone 22 years my senior who had three kids. Try parenting a kid when you are only 7 years older than the eldest and getting to deal with "You're not my momma!" issues all while just barely being an adult yourself (and with no younger sibling/ child experience). The child who is in the military is exactly 10 years to the day younger than me. My wedding was basically "I do" and then "By the way, you've just inherited three kids. Have fun!" I was like "Whaaaaa??"
The fact I only went through labour for one of the four, does not make them any less my children since I was taking care of them and had to deal with everything from the terrible 2s of the youngest stepchild to the various jr high and then high school crap. And I did that while going to school, working, publishing, volunteering, and basically being "Super Mom" as my undergraduate advisor used to call me etc. Was it time consuming? Yes. Was it difficult? Yes. Was it unlike almost anything else I experienced until that point? Definitely. Did I give up or postpone a lot of stuff to do it so that these kids wouldn't grow up to be a burden on society? Yes. Was it all fun and games? Hardly. Was it work/employment? No.
Hardest job for me still the consulting gig, which as the other posters are reminding me also included a form of telemarketing (sort of.) The telemarketing like part was so traumatizing, that I did everything I could to forget about.
Why is this so hard to believe? I married my first wife @ 18 yrs old, she was 65 years old. My daughter went through menopause when I was graduating high school.
I loved going out with her because we always scored the senior discount. RIP Gertrude. RIP.
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Oh, BennieB. Don't ever change. And RIP to your Gertie.
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You can attempt to snark all you like my friends, you are just showing your own ignorance of cultures unlike yours.
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Um, ok so back on topic if I may.
So for physically hard was a plumbers assistant (ditch digger) in way southeast Texas when I was a teenager. For reference look up the clay-dirt that exists in and around Beaumont Texas. 
That being said, working with blind and/or deaf children teaching them awareness and self defense proved to be quite the challenge. Rewarding, oh so rewarding, but tiresome nonetheless.
So for physically hard was a plumbers assistant (ditch digger) in way southeast Texas when I was a teenager. For reference look up the clay-dirt that exists in and around Beaumont Texas.
That being said, working with blind and/or deaf children teaching them awareness and self defense proved to be quite the challenge. Rewarding, oh so rewarding, but tiresome nonetheless.
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Just when you thought the Non-trad forum would be immune from the sillyness and bickering that defines *ahem* other forums on here.
I agree. Porn-palace-floor-mopper-upper takes the cake.
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The main reason I "moved" over to this forum. Lets not ruin it for me, eh?
I do my best. In general, this forum is devoid of of the pettiness that is on other forums and there appears to be more of an "we're all in this thing together mentality."
Aside from being a non-trad applicant at one time, that's why I like this forum.
Though, you'll miss out on one jillion "MD v. DO" and "Obama is going to destroy health care and you might as well get a job flipping burgers" threads here.
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Haha, sounds good to me. I do feel some sort of "togetherness" with other non-trads, its a tough road, nice to see others making it as well.
You'd think some might actually like that job. LOLDitch digging in clay is a major pain.
"Working with blind and/or deaf children teaching them awareness and self defense proved to be quite the challenge."
Kudos to you. If I were on an adcom, you'd definitely have a leg up.
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Now that's exactly the perspective that I was asking for. I spoke to one father of young children who was a resident. He had worked 12 hour shifts every night for 24 straight days. He was doing this because he was moonlighting in order to bring in enough to support his family (I think his wife was a stay-at-home mother). I'll have to say, I have never worked 84 hour weeks repeatedly, in a row. That sounds hard.
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Welcome, Mrs. Longshanks... you probably have a valuable perspective on the nontrad trip..
That was, well, nice? Umm this thread was bumped back a number of times, and by myself as well. And as I recall, there were a number of folks that related completely with my perspective. But thanks for that. That was helpful and didn't add to any further distraction.
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It's amazing the cumulative breath of "life" experiences on this thread. I can almost vicariously have lived nine lives just reading through it.
The discussions here are stimulating and interesting, however, I would have to say you guys are competing for the "Most Long-winded Posters on all of SDN" trophy...
No harm, though, very good reads.
The discussions here are stimulating and interesting, however, I would have to say you guys are competing for the "Most Long-winded Posters on all of SDN" trophy...
No harm, though, very good reads.
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Don't tell me you think being a wife is a job too.
It's amazing the cumulative breath of "life" experiences on this thread. I can almost vicariously have lived nine lives just reading through it.
The discussions here are stimulating and interesting, however, I would have to say you guys are competing for the "Most Long-winded Posters on all of SDN" trophy...
No harm, though, very good reads.
true. . .I am glad I have someone on ignore. I can only imagine the mishigas. You know what they say. Out of sight, out of mind.
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No, just trying to pad my resume. Much safer than trying to pad my bust.
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