What is the hardest job you've ever done?

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In fact, I've never talked to a woman who has both done full time primary caregiving and also held a full time job (not necessarily at the same time) who said that the job was harder. To a woman (and probably stay-at-home dads would say the same thing), they find being the primary caregiver in a family harder.

Alright. I am a woman. I have been the primary caregiver and held jobs. I am a full-time professional, but there have been a few months when I did not work and was only a full-time caregiver. I did not find it more difficult than a job, and I have fairly easy jobs. Granted, I only have two kids, and they are 7 years apart, extremely healthy, fairly smart, and for the most part, well-behaved. My cousin who has a 4th grader with various autoimmune disorders and 6 year old twins, and was herself recently battling lymphoma while coping with her husband's unemployment probably had something to gripe about!

For me personally, though, work always was stress-filled because I am not the ultimate boss. At home, yes, I have to cook, clean, take care of kids, check homework, etc. etc., but I am in charge of how and when I do it. If I don't want to clean the tub, I don't. I don't have to enroll my kids in sports 5 days/week. Babies definitely don't conform to the mom's schedule, but they're so cute that it makes up for the added stress. At work, I can be ready to go and get work dumped on me at the last minute. Or I can do a ton of work and have someone else decide to change the direction of the project. Whatever difficulties I have had as a caregiver were because of work, not because of the caregiving part.
 
Alright. I am a woman. I have been the primary caregiver and held jobs. I am a full-time professional, but there have been a few months when I did not work and was only a full-time caregiver. I did not find it more difficult than a job, and I have fairly easy jobs. Granted, I only have two kids, and they are 7 years apart, extremely healthy, fairly smart, and for the most part, well-behaved. My cousin who has a 4th grader with various autoimmune disorders and 6 year old twins, and was herself recently battling lymphoma while coping with her husband's unemployment probably had something to gripe about!

No one is griping. It's lovely to be a mom, every day has some joy you didn't foresee. It's just hard as well. And I think few people on this thread were griping; in fact, most sounded proud of the tough jobs that they have had (well maybe the exception is the peep show cleaning).

Everybody who does something hard (including going back to school as an older person) should be proud. That's our Puritan inheritance, right?
 
Hey Volks,

Thought I would share with you my hardest life experinces. I was born in Baghdad/ Iraq under Saddam hussein regime, my two uncles were excuted because they were opposition to him resulting in my sister fired from her job(it doesn't make sensce to alot of americans but they will hunt you down even if a relative stood up against saddam). I went to dental school after 2000 in ramadi where falluja is (military people who served in Iraq knows what I'm talking about!!) those college years were disastrous, IEDs, car bombs, al-qaeda checkpoints, I'm shia in the middle of sunni extremist, was stuck in cross fire between al-qaeda and U.S. army so many frickin times, saw dead bodies all over, windows at classroom smashes for IED explosions. To make story short, I graduated under unbelivable circumstances.

After I graduate, I left my dental education aside for a while and started working with the U.S. army as arabic translator. My job was classified the most dangerous civilian job on earth for 2006 and 07. I can't count how many times we were attacked! (sniper when you set up a checkpoint, IED when you're on streets rolling, rockets when you go back to base and AH suicide bombers who attack you out of no f**** where. I wanted to serve my country(Iraq) and help those who helped us get rid of Saddam. My family had to move 3 times because of my job and how dangerous it was. After two years of working in hell, I finally got the visa to the U.S.(after 3 security clearences and 20 letters of recommendation including a U.S. gerneal).

I came to the U.S. two years ago right when the depression started. I worked as construction worker, fast food resturants, dental assistant and some other. I did some soul searching and I want to be a doctor not a dentist, I always wanted to be MD and I decided to take that step.

Now, I joined the U.S. army reserves and will be shipped to basic traning in feb(inshallah, God willing) my job in the army will be LPN/LVN so that would be great for med school application(I hope). After I finish my army nursing training I will start taking my pre-med then MCAT.

Sorry for this long story, but my life experinces taught me so much, the views of burned decapitated people is still haunting me. Whoever sees death values life, and thats why I want to be a MD.

Thanks and God bless!

Ah come on. Playing IED roulette is fun!

Inspiring story. Stay safe. I hope the Army takes full advantage of your ability to speak the language and know the culture.
 
Keep your head down and stay safe while you're in the Army. Not just from the insurgents, but from ******ed SNCOs and officers. But seriously... best of luck.
 
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For me, it has been parenting that has presented the greatest challenge. My wife and I both work full-time nights. We work opposite shifts so that we don't have to depend on childcare. Thankfully, our kids are pretty low maintenance. But you can't let a 4 year-old take care of his 6 month old sister so that you can study Biochem...so parenting presents a lot of balancing issues. Not to mention the emotional investment involved in putting the interests of several other people ahead of your own issues. My traditional friends say they have it a lot easier than me...but I wouldn't know...this is just the reality I live in.
 
Old Grunt, thanks man and I agree with you regarding playing which "bump" on the road gonna kill you! lol, i have a question for you, did your military service "helped" somehow with your admission to med school? I've heared it would be helpful but don't know how much.

Sgtbrushes, thanks bro and trust me I'm little worried about some ignorant racist people who would treat me differently but as they say 'been there done that" and a racist person only makes me feel smart to think that just because his parents had sex in certain place on earth it means he is better than someone else!!!

The main reason I worked with the U.S. army back in Iraq was I thought this "civilizations conflict" as portrayed in the media is unfair. They made an image of my religion and culture like a straw man and started beating it to death. If my religion TRULY teaches that if I kill others I will go to heaven I will denounce it on the spot, oh yeah and this thing about getting 72 virgins!! hahaha it has NO ISLAMIC refrence whatsoever. The world was shocked by charels manson and his cult who believed in killing others and the crimes they've committed. Hold your breath becuase the media wants you to believe there are 1.5 billion people on this planet that are even worse than charels manson, how absurd is this!!

Anyway, there is so much historical, geopolitical, social aspects to what's going on the middle east and it's a long discussion.

Again, thank you guys for wishing me luck and stay safe too!

Army Strong!
 
no offense,ed, but if you didn't find parenting that difficult it probably means your wife did most of the work. you should thank her and bring her roses.

Truth, and the roses are regularly given. But I really don't believe that being either mother or father is really that hard. I know that we want to exalt the position of motherhood; I'm all in favor of that, but exaggerating its difficulties is not the best way to do that.

According to my wife, working in a chicken plant, cutting out hearts and livers is MUCH harder.

Oh, BTW, my children turned out alright. The state decided not to take them away for child neglect after all (Yes, I'm being silly).
 
Old Grunt, thanks man and I agree with you regarding playing which "bump" on the road gonna kill you! lol, i have a question for you, did your military service "helped" somehow with your admission to med school? I've heared it would be helpful but don't know how much.

Sgtbrushes, thanks bro and trust me I'm little worried about some ignorant racist people who would treat me differently but as they say 'been there done that" and a racist person only makes me feel smart to think that just because his parents had sex in certain place on earth it means he is better than someone else!!!

The main reason I worked with the U.S. army back in Iraq was I thought this "civilizations conflict" as portrayed in the media is unfair. They made an image of my religion and culture like a straw man and started beating it to death. If my religion TRULY teaches that if I kill others I will go to heaven I will denounce it on the spot, oh yeah and this thing about getting 72 virgins!! hahaha it has NO ISLAMIC refrence whatsoever. The world was shocked by charels manson and his cult who believed in killing others and the crimes they've committed. Hold your breath becuase the media wants you to believe there are 1.5 billion people on this planet that are even worse than charels manson, how absurd is this!!

Anyway, there is so much historical, geopolitical, social aspects to what's going on the middle east and it's a long discussion.

Again, thank you guys for wishing me luck and stay safe too!

Army Strong!

Take solace in the fact that at least some of the American public realizes that this is the case.
 
The main reason I worked with the U.S. army back in Iraq was I thought this "civilizations conflict" as portrayed in the media is unfair. They made an image of my religion and culture like a straw man and started beating it to death. If my religion TRULY teaches that if I kill others I will go to heaven I will denounce it on the spot, oh yeah and this thing about getting 72 virgins!! hahaha it has NO ISLAMIC refrence whatsoever. The world was shocked by charels manson and his cult who believed in killing others and the crimes they've committed. !

I wish that I met more Islamic people like you. It would be easier to not be concerned. Unfortunately, it only takes a few jihadists to worry everyone.

My religion, holiness-pentecostal, has a few nuts who run around handling snakes. The fact that there are only a few hundred of these snake-handlers in the world, doesn't keep the rest of us from getting tarred with the same brush.

Religion is a powerful force, and people who have violent or nutty agendas like to use it to promote their weak ideas. The weaker the idea, the more "religious" the nut gets. It's not the religion that makes the nuts, it's the nuts who like to cover their insanity with a cloak of religion.
 
I wish that I met more Islamic people like you. It would be easier to not be concerned. Unfortunately, it only takes a few jihadists to worry everyone.

My religion, holiness-pentecostal, has a few nuts who run around handling snakes. The fact that there are only a few hundred of these snake-handlers in the world, doesn't keep the rest of us from getting tarred with the same brush.

Religion is a powerful force, and people who have violent or nutty agendas like to use it to promote their weak ideas. The weaker the idea, the more "religious" the nut gets. It's not the religion that makes the nuts, it's the nuts who like to cover their insanity with a cloak of religion.

EdLongshanks, thanks for your comment and understanding. I understand what you say about being painted with wide brush for the actions of a few. People fail to understand or even bother to read history. People use religion to cover up their agenda, just like the catholic church during spanish inquisition and crusades! The church killed so many people in the name of gentle Christ misquoting the bible and use it for their benefit. Now, can I blame the religion of christinaity for the church actions??!!! or even worse to blame Christ or the bible for it?!!! while I fully know that christianty and christ is far from these actions.

Unfortunately, it's not the case with Islam, for the actions of few radicals brainwashed people Prophet Mohammed and the Quran is being attacked on almost daily basis for being violent and unhuman. Anyone can misquote any divine scripture and make anything they want to do with it.

What's really ironic is, if Islam is all about violence, where were Hamas and al-qaeda before?!!! If my religion teaches me to kill christians and jews we should've known more organizations like Hamas and al-qaeda way back in history. Even more, there are around 20 millions Arab Christinas in the middle east now and as we know christinaty predated Islam. So when the middle east was under muslims control, what stops them for killing ALL christians in the region when they were minority and had no one to protect them????? when the muslims entered Juesalem, why did they keep all churches and temples and didn't destroy it?

If you want to have rational debate with someone you should go back to facts, it's easy to make claims that muslims are this and that but I think if I want to know what christinaty is all about I should read the Bible not to judge of what this person say or that person does. I can go to Vegas and say is this a christian country??!!! is this what christianty all about? adultry and gambling!? it's unfair to judge religion or ideology from it's followers, you can listen and talk to the followes but to be accurate you should go to the source which everything else is around.

Again, I believe in humanity and we are all have one father and mother (Adam and Eve) and if you CLAIM that you love God you can't HATE his creation!!! we all should agree to disagree, it what makes this life so wonderful. Having different skin colours, religions, cultures, cuisines is for us to reflect on and get to know and embrace not to discriminate against and look for which culture is "better", we are all different and unique but we are all humans.

Salam Aleikum (Peace be with you)
 
The hardest time, I should say, I've experienced was upon returning from Iraq as a reservist. My job as a pretty well paid ER tech laid me off a few days into returning from leave. Since they had hired me back on, I wasn't protected anymore by USERRA, the rights act that's supposed to secure service member's jobs. After this I had to sell many prized possessions to stay afloat, and bounced around from crap job to crap job, trying to work my way up in pay. I first started selling appliances for little more than minimum wage, and never a full time schedule, then left that for a management job at a sub shop, which had me working 50-60 hours a week at $8 an hour without overtime, still only half of my old income. After being frustrated one too many times with my area manager who never gave me my promised salary and benefits, I left to work at a steel mill, now for 10 an hour, and never over 40 a week, with no benefits. After this I had to leave for a few weeks for a special detail with the military, only to return and be fired(my replacement was already working there when I returned, but again, they kept me on long enough to make it legit). After this I tried the self employment route, painting houses, making custom counters and cabinets, remodeling, etc.... until finally landing an okay paying job as a hospital security officer with decent benefits. Though, I'm only going to use that as an opportunity to get my foot in the door and try to get back into being a technician.
It's not such a bad place now though, everyday I'm immersed in the atmosphere of Washington University School of Medicine(where I dream of being accepted), and the Barnes-Jewish and BJC health care system. I'm right where I want to be, just not holding the job I hope for.
 
Old Grunt, thanks man and I agree with you regarding playing which "bump" on the road gonna kill you! lol, i have a question for you, did your military service "helped" somehow with your admission to med school? I've heared it would be helpful but don't know how much.

Extremely helpful. I had interviews at places I most likely wouldn't have interviewed at normally simply because I had an interesting story.

You have to remember that ADCOMs see a gillion 3.9/34 MCAT/Biology majors with the same generic personal statements.

It might make the traditionals made that admissions isn't always a numbers game, but life isn't fair and there is more to medicine than have a great undergrad GPA and MCAT score.

I am not saying, in anyway that those aren't important, or that an interesting background trumps numbers. I am just saying it helped me.

Stay safe and never take the same road twice (and hope another unit hasn't recently taken a road you are traveling).

Of course, you already know all that.
 
... and a racist person only makes me feel smart to think that just because his parents had sex in certain place on earth it means he is better than someone else!!!

🤣Sorry, never heard put quite like that before. Carry on.

I'd contribute, but my story of working long 8 hours days in a comfortable office as a technical writer editing manuals for credit card machines is simply mind-blowingly boring, not hard. ._.
 
The hardest job I've ever done was as an Infantry Reconnaissance Platoon Leader in Afghanistan. Hard because ground reconnaissance in Afghanistan is a total exercise in futility and frustration.

A distant second would be hauling alfalfa square bales (grew up on a farm).

The hardest thing I've ever done, physically, mentally, and emotionally was Army Ranger School. A 62-day suck-fest where you don't eat or sleep. I was in the shape of my life with a BMI of 22-23 going into it, and still managed to lose close to 30 lbs.

hear you on the hay bales, however, something about that seems more fun than work... unless it's 100+ degrees, humidity in the nineties, and you're trying to throw 1000+ acres in a day with just a driver and two throwers... those are the days you wanna throw in the towel...
though one day when I (hopefully) achieve my dream specialty and I'm doing what I've wanted to do so long, I know I'll look back at everything I've done, including throwing hay and picking sweet corn, and reminisce in the nostalgia of "the good old days."
Props to you. I've served our country, but not to the degree you have, what is it, SSG? SFC?
No, at one point I'd about had myself convinced I would go down that path, but then I never was that committed. I held out too much hope I could still lead an ordinary life. Your list of achievements is extraordinary.
 
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Call me crazy but motherhood wasn't that hard for me and I had my kid natural (and it was a homebirth), no grandparents nearby, mostly absent spouse, and I was still going to school, having a job, and running a business and we didn't have babysitters or day care. My tech transfer job was still the hardest for me.
 
Anybody here ever taught elementary or high school? I'm always surprised when people complain about how much teachers make (local property tax increases have brought out the crazies in my community). Teachers seem to have very difficult jobs. I also tip my hat to anyone who works in fear for the good of others, whether it's soldiers or police. *There's* where the million dollar bonuses should be going.
 
Dentist82, it'll be an honor serving with you. 🙂

I got nothing to compete with Army Ranger (I once saw before-and-after pictures of a previous boyfriend who went through that, and damn... words fail me), or even others that have been mentioned here. In 4 months, if I'm blessed, I'll start being able to sympathize with the motherhood contributions.

In the meantime, the toughest job I've ever held wasn't tough in the this-is-hard-work sense... it was tough in the morale sense. Bad boss, over-manned and under-missioned, but our main objective was to pretend otherwise & to look important on PowerPoint slides (the secondary objectives were empire-building and boot-licking). Our nation's constitution would have been just as protected & defended if I'd spent my days sitting on the sofa, eating bon-bons, and watching daytime TV. Getting myself out of bed and going to work every day was the most demoralizing thing I've ever done. I was grateful & excited to leave that job for a (admittedly short & relatively safe) tour in Iraq. That was when I decided to start toward becoming a doctor -- so I would know why I was getting out of bed every day.

(Today I got out of bed knowing that I would spend the day memorizing minutiae chosen to help me distinguish sub-categories of sub-categories of renal syndromes on a multiple choice test, so I do wonder from time to time whether the plan was a solid one.)
 
boot-licking

My son is in the military now and you have just echoed his description of the whole infrastructure. I'm a flag-waving, toss-em to hades, american-exceptionalism conservative. But, let's face it, the military is the natural home of the high-school bullies who we all hated so much.
 
hear you on the hay bales, however, something about that seems more fun than work... unless it's 100+ degrees, humidity in the nineties, and you're trying to throw 1000+ acres in a day with just a driver and two throwers... those are the days you wanna throw in the towel...
though one day when I (hopefully) achieve my dream specialty and I'm doing what I've wanted to do so long, I know I'll look back at everything I've done, including throwing hay and picking sweet corn, and reminisce in the nostalgia of "the good old days."
Props to you. I've served our country, but not to the degree you have, what is it, SSG? SFC?
No, at one point I'd about had myself convinced I would go down that path, but then I never was that committed. I held out too much hope I could still lead an ordinary life. Your list of achievements is extraordinary.

It's a natural law that when it comes to hauling hay, it's always 100+ degrees, with humidity in the nineties and you have 1000 alfalfa bales sitting on the field with rain coming in.

As for the service, it's really just a function of time and place. A lot of guys and gals have seen a lot worse than me. In the end, we all just go where theytell us to go. I was an O. I got out as an O-3. I was a "four and fly" ROTC guy, so it was just a function of fulfilling my obligations.

Thanks for the nice words and good luck to you.
 
I got nothing to compete with Army Ranger (I once saw before-and-after pictures of a previous boyfriend who went through that, and damn... words fail me), or even others that have been mentioned here. In 4 months, if I'm blessed, I'll start being able to sympathize with the motherhood contributions.

I lost about 25 lbs in 62 days, and I was in the shape of my life going in.

In retrospect, I realize how unhealthy it was. My physiology and metabolism was permanently screwed up by Ranger School. By the time we were getting out, we all reeked of ammonia since we were metabolizing straight protein. I don't even want to think about what it did to my kidneys.

Not to freak you out with memorizing your nephrotic/nephritic syndromes.

Oh well. They don't call it young and stupid for no reason.
 
Dentist82, it'll be an honor serving with you. 🙂

Thank you dear, the honour is mine! What part of Iraq were you stationed at? My college was in Ramadi (30 minutes from Falluja) and my translator job was in Diyala Province and then six months in the IZ.

Stay sharp!
 
My son is in the military now and you have just echoed his description of the whole infrastructure. I'm a flag-waving, toss-em to hades, american-exceptionalism conservative. But, let's face it, the military is the natural home of the high-school bullies who we all hated so much.

I think that depends on what kind of unit you are in. The support units seem to be the natural home of every ******* with a power complex.

Paradoxically, in the Infantry (at least by my experience) it was no bull****. Of course in my unit, we implemented "combatives Thursday (grappling contests)" and no one was immune. So if you are an officer or NCO and you wanted to be a jerk, you'd better be able to back it up on Thursdays when some 6'5" 200 lbs private stuck you in a straight arm bar.

Seemed to keep everyone straight. Petty tyrants always got their come uppance.
 
I think that depends on what kind of unit you are in. The support units seem to be the natural home of every ******* with a power complex.

Paradoxically, in the Infantry (at least by my experience) it was no bull****.

This aligns with my experience. The further from the pointy end that a unit operates, the less likely it is to have a mission-focused set of priorities. The best ones I worked at were a fighter squadron in Germany and the infantry guys that I worked with in Baghdad. I would work with both those units again any day; they were VERY different from the unit I described in my previous post.
 
This aligns with my experience. The further from the pointy end that a unit operates, the less likely it is to have a mission-focused set of priorities. The best ones I worked at were a fighter squadron in Germany and the infantry guys that I worked with in Baghdad. I would work with both those units again any day; they were VERY different from the unit I described in my previous post.

Yeah. No offense, but I am so glad I wasn't combat support or combat service support.

I think I would suck on a tailpipe.

At least the closer you are to the line, the stupidity that is innate to the military is (usually) not self manufactured.
 
Ironically, the hardest job I've ever done is the one I still do part-time- Riverboat Deckhand....100+ degree temps in South LA walking on a football fields worth of floating steel, Up and down from loads to empties carrying the wires and ratchets to connect them (weigh about 70 lbs a piece). I still enjoy getting out there and busting my butt-Its a mental break from the ambulance.

Most of my time in the Guard was spent in supply in a maintenance unit....I agree with Old Grunt's viewpoint of CSS units. I transferred to an Infantry Brigade HQ and did supply for my last 3 years....definitely a different attitude.
 
Hands down, parenting/marriage--both at the same time or at least pretty close. lol

But parenting tops it by far. IMHO (and I'm sure I'll be smacked down for saying this) but having only one child isn't the true flavor. It makes a difference when there are two or more---seriously--especially if any or all of them have very different but strong-willed personalities. I'm sorry there is only so much of that that goes to nuture. I have become incredibly convinced of this. You won't be a perfect parent; but you can kill yoursellf going the extra mile, etc, and the individual personality and temperament will kick in--b/c there is such a thing as free will--even if you as a parent believe in being firm and not enabling and maintaining accountability.

The toughest part of parenting is not enabling wrong behaviors and attitudes yet being there in appropriate ways that support w/ causing more harm--and then letting the children learn from their own mistakes.

. . . Too, it pays to always bear in mind that children don't so much listen as watch all thay we do as parents. We are always under their microscopes and on their radar. They don't really miss much.

Yep. . .parenting. . .and living with how you've done it will be tough. There really are no second chances in raising them. Once they are pretty much grown, they will still need you; but when the bulk of it is done, it's done. There's no reinventing yourself in the role--the role naturally evolves and changes--and as it does, there really is no going back.

It's a role that I believe you take with you to the grave. Too many people IMHO have lived to regret how they messed it up. And then the other side is that there are too many times where we as parents are too hard on ourselves.

It's the toughest of roles; but it is also fun and brings a lot of joy--along with a LOT of stress at times. I have one child that is genius in many ways, but she is truly the textbook strong-willed child. And she was from the womb--hyper, kicking up a storm. She was a strong willed toddler (more so than typical--and no dx'd ADD orADHD), a strong-willed preschooler, you name it, and now is a very strong-willed teen. I've tried to take the approach that her strong will can be guided to become perseverance. Still, it's been tougher than I ever anticipated.

Each child has his/her own innate personality and spirit and will. That's the truth. Always keep believing in them though. Parenting, I think, also teaches us a lot about life and philosophy and purpose, if we let it.

Yep. Parenting--toughest job--no competition.
 
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Ironically, the hardest job I've ever done is the one I still do part-time- Riverboat Deckhand....100+ degree temps in South LA walking on a football fields worth of floating steel, Up and down from loads to empties carrying the wires and ratchets to connect them (weigh about 70 lbs a piece). I still enjoy getting out there and busting my butt-Its a mental break from the ambulance.

Was it on a fishing boat outside of Delacroix?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwSZvHqf9qM

Most of my time in the Guard was spent in supply in a maintenance unit....I agree with Old Grunt's viewpoint of CSS units. I transferred to an Infantry Brigade HQ and did supply for my last 3 years....definitely a different attitude.
👍
 
Eh... I had three step-kids (teens) along with my biological one. I just luckily didn't have to deal with most of them at the same time and none of the teens were responsible so I couldn't even get the oldest to help out.
 
Anybody here ever taught elementary or high school? I'm always surprised when people complain about how much teachers make (local property tax increases have brought out the crazies in my community). Teachers seem to have very difficult jobs. I also tip my hat to anyone who works in fear for the good of others, whether it's soldiers or police. *There's* where the million dollar bonuses should be going.

Yeah, if you'll go to the first page you'll see that I posted my most difficult job - teaching. I made the move from being a teacher to police officer and on up from there.
 
Truth, and the roses are regularly given. But I really don't believe that being either mother or father is really that hard. I know that we want to exalt the position of motherhood; I'm all in favor of that, but exaggerating its difficulties is not the best way to do that.

According to my wife, working in a chicken plant, cutting out hearts and livers is MUCH harder.

Oh, BTW, my children turned out alright. The state decided not to take them away for child neglect after all (Yes, I'm being silly).



Again LS, I have to disagree with you. There's a heck of a lot riding on parenting--not just for them or us, but for society as well. It's up and down kind of hard--like other things I guess. But the thing is, it is a very long, 24/7 commitment. You don't just clock out or sign-out/off when your are done being the parent for the day, the week, month, year, or even decade. It is 24/7 accountabiity and responsibility w/o a break. Now thankfully they may give you a break. But you have to be "on-call" 24/7, 365 days a year and then also leap years for two decades or more.

And everyone's kids and experiences are a bit different--but you don't know what kind of kid you are going to get. Regardless, you love them and work to stand by them. Every issue w/ them becomes your issue. Yes as they grow you work to limit that so that they take more and more responsibility for their issues, goals, whatever; but it's never really this totally passive role if the job is done right. You can't switch it off--ever.

I never cease to be amazed at how people, especially in this country, look at parenting. Many can't wait to have their own children--almost like they're neopets or even real pets that people keep in their home. They love to bring in their babies or kids or their pictures and show them off. We've all done that.

But it is so much more than that, and it amazes me the lack of gravity with which many take on the role of parenting. Probably many that were swayed by maternal/paternal hormones, society, and the cuteness factor of procreation would not embark upon it if they had a crystal ball. And that is NOT b/c it isn't a wonderful thing.

It truly is; but it is flooded w/ less than wonderful, tiring, stress-filled moments and periods--sometimes quite long periods--often coming when you are most vulnerable--like you are sick yourself, having financial struggles, work struggles, marriage struggles, whatever.

See kids often have a difficult time seeing the parent's side of things--so they can be relentless in putting forth unnecessary amounts of stress at the worst possible times. No, not all of them, and not all the time. And this is why I say having more than one or two really makes the difference. And that may be at least partly why many just have one or two children. But there are no guarantees.

You can get 1:1 or at least 1:2 that are strong-willed or have some issue that clouds over all other relationships and responspibilities.
You can have a child that is born w/ some kind of disability or develops one later one.
You can simply just have a child that has a serious personality disorder or psychological disorder. (I've been heartbroken by parent's stories where their child developed schizophrenia when they hit adolescence. What these people go through is nothing less than a nightmare. In fact I think I'd rather have anything other than schizophrenia--have working in clinicals in a state psychiatric hospital.)
You can just have one child that demands so much attention for one reason or another, and then struggle with ensuring that somehow you are not neglecting your other children.

OTOH, you could be a family where everyone is basically pretty cooperative and supportive of each other and no one's "issue" is a cloud over the home--at least for the most part--but I'd say that would be rare. But

Then there is the issue of having the right partner with which to raise your children.

And again, I can't say this enough--you really could kill yourself trying to be the best parent you can be, and a child, especially when those teen hormones and outside influences kick in, will be much more than the most enormous pain in your arse.

You see, in many jobs there is a certain level of expected controllabiity--probably one of a number of reasons I've always enjoyed critical care. (We tend to be control freaks in critical care--and usually for good reason.)
But there comes a point, which becomes especially intense with some kids, where you are virtually stripped of a reasonable amount of control. And that would be fine if they choose to put themselves in questionable situations to deal with the consequences--however, again, like it or not, often enough their problems, one way or another, still become your problems--even if you do NOT adopt or encourage an enabling approach or mentality. Even colleges and the student loan people understand this. The local authorities understand this. It's not like kids become 18 and they can get a perfect SL package all on their own. No. Uncle Same looks and mommy and daddy's tax returns and decides--and if there is an amount they draw the line at, it will be up to mommy and daddy to procure an unsubsidized loan and other private loans. Now God forbid, you are like my brother and the kid decides after 10's of thousands of dollars that she doesn't want to do college anymore. Boom! You're stuck with it. Sure, you can choose not to help your kid out with college; but your family and society will shame and attack you for not giving your kid the benefit of a post-secondary education--and truthfully the kid may get caught up in a relationship and job and never get back to school These and many other scenarios run through your mind. It's not like parents that give a dam can or even should just kick their kid to the curb when they are 18. Maybe some should and others shouldn't. Depends on the specifics. But anyone of us knows how hard it is to make a decent living today.

The biggest thing is that there are many things you just have limited control over in parenting.

In the military, in GENERAL, things are tightly controlled--and for good darn reason--just like in critical care. Sure there are things that you cannot control in those and really all areas. But the idea is that you set things up in such a way in order to limit uncontrollable and potentially problematic issues, concerns, events, whatever.

LOL. . .in parenting, at certain points, especially with certain kind of kids--and especially upon adolescence, well this becomes kind of laughable.
I will never forget my tough as nails USMC father's response to rearing kids. I think earlier on when the kids were little, a certain amount of that Marine Corp discipline was effective. As the children got older, using predominately this approach became less and less affective. The problem is, in a family/children situation, that approach only goes so far; because really it's not the military. Sometimes it is harder to live with less structure and unpredictability than it is to live with it--probably for most people it is harder. I mean very liquid flexibility while holding your ground over the essential things is absolutely vital in raising a family.

And I've also learned from working in peds critical care, well, kids are way different than adults, and they will constantly throw you curve balls when you least expect it. In fact in coming out of adult critical care into peds critical care, that was one of the main things I had to learn--and I'm speaking in terms of psychosocial things as well as physiological things. Kids' responses physiologically as well as emotionally/psychosocially turn on a dime--literally. If you can't be flexible enough to make the necessary adjustments, well pack it in.


So if parenting for some was a piece of cake b/c, well, they got the luck of the draw with kids and personality issues or health issues or the fact that for whatever reason their kid, unlike a remarkable percentage of young kids and teens in this country, were not exposed to illicit drug use and became addicted or at least has very problematic issues w/ abuse, or they never were in the car with a drunk driver (that everyone else at the party was surely fooled into believing was stone sober)--or any other incredible number of variables, I say thank God and pray it will be the same for your grandchild!!! But in this world, there is an excellent possibility--perhaps probability that it will not be so. Always remember, "It rains on the 'evil' and the 'good.'"

Plus there is no thing as perfect parenting. Much of it is on the job training--and you will have learned some good things and not so good things particular to the needs of your own children from your experiences by way of your own parents.



I'm not trying to scare anyone away from becoming parents; but the truth is it is the hardest, most stressful job you will ever love. I am bold enough to say that this is so for at least most people, if they are completely "present and accounted for" in the role as parents--and if they are completely honest. Onc again, you could raise your children well, but there are variables that you just cannot control, period.

The serenity prayer is not just for people and families of people with addictions. It is for parents! LOL It should be one of the first things parents-to-be commit to memory.



There are different kinds of "hard or difficult" jobs. Parenting, however, is one that is rather all-consuming and very enduring. It brings with it much joy, fulfillment, and happines as well as much pain, distress, and sorrow.
In reality, you will not get the positive subset over the negative, but will likely experience both.

Hopefully, at least for most of us, we will come through the experience saying we wouldn't trade it for anything. But honestly, I've met quite a number of parents that have stated the opposite--and they were speaking overall not in terms of being in the throes of parental stress at any particular moment. C'est la vie.

If you are someone that can find joy beyond the stress and sorrow, you will be glad to be a parent. If you can't tolerate the, at times, ongoing demands and stress and things you just can't control--if you can't handle the less than ideal, um, you may not like parenting.
It's endless giving while maintaining reasonably strong and proper boundaries--and it's often a juggling act. I see parents that hate parenting because, honestly, they are just not givers. They like showing off how beautiful their children are, or their kids's medals, trophies, whatever bragging they can on them; but there is a lot of performance 'love' in the whole deal, and the kids definitely feel that.
 
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Again LS, I have to disagree with you. There's a heck of a lot riding on parenting--not just for them or us, but for society as well. It's up and down kind of hard--like other things I guess. But the thing is, it is a very long, 24/7 commitment. ....

You make it too hard. I have 3 children. 20, 19, & 17. All are still at home. One is a college student and another is crippled with juvenile rheumatoid arthritis. All of them are reasonably well adjusted. None are social outcasts. None of them have tried illegal drugs (yes, I know, that I know about). No tattoos, strange piercings or EMO friends. The boys like girls, the girl likes boys. None of them act or dress slutty. The college student has made nothing but A's so far. The high school student makes average grades.

I don't exercise close control. They have the upstairs pretty much to themselves and they let us know when they leave the house and when we can expect them home. We all go to church together but spread out after we get there.

I never worked very hard at being a father. I just enjoyed being with my kids when they wanted to be with me - which was a lot of the time. I consider this to be the most enjoyable job I ever had - not by any stretch of imagination the hardest.
 
This aligns with my experience. The further from the pointy end that a unit operates, the less likely it is to have a mission-focused set of priorities. The best ones I worked at were a fighter squadron in Germany and the infantry guys that I worked with in Baghdad. I would work with both those units again any day; they were VERY different from the unit I described in my previous post.

Pemberley, you are pretty hot. I would definitely date you.
 
Hardest job? Metal worker at the New Orleans Naval Air Station. The work itself wasn't the hard part. The hard part was going back to company housing with a bunch of co-workers getting loaded on narcotics, watching co-workers get picked up on ICE raids, and watching life in what was basically a crime infested housing project. It was a pretty rude awakening to how a lot of other people live (especially after growing up in quiet, middle-class Iowa), but that experience was part of the reason I took the job.
 
Former army medic in Iraq. Many would call that a "bad" job but I loved it. Obviously seeing combat injuries isn't much fun but in the end it gave me the desire for medical school so I am very thankful for it.

To be honest the worst job I've had was working at a pecan farm in Texas after high school. Sorting through 10,000 lbs of pecans a day in 105 degree heat is less than enjoyable.

--To Old Grunt
Alot of respect for Rangers. Alot of my buddies in medic training went Ranger afterwards and I still keep up with them. Spent alot of time at Ft. Benning right across the street from the "Ranger compound". Rangers are definately a different breed.🙂
 
This thread jumped the shark pretty quickly. Parenting? Please. Parenting may be difficult, but is not a job. By definition, your personal life is not a job.

For me, it was stocking supermarket shelves overnight. Not extraordinarily difficult work in and of itself, but draining and a very unpleasant environment.
 
You make it too hard. I have 3 children. 20, 19, & 17. All are still at home. One is a college student and another is crippled with juvenile rheumatoid arthritis. All of them are reasonably well adjusted. None are social outcasts. None of them have tried illegal drugs (yes, I know, that I know about). No tattoos, strange piercings or EMO friends. The boys like girls, the girl likes boys. None of them act or dress slutty. The college student has made nothing but A's so far. The high school student makes average grades.

I don't exercise close control. They have the upstairs pretty much to themselves and they let us know when they leave the house and when we can expect them home. We all go to church together but spread out after we get there.

I never worked very hard at being a father. I just enjoyed being with my kids when they wanted to be with me - which was a lot of the time. I consider this to be the most enjoyable job I ever had - not by any stretch of imagination the hardest.

That's hard, having a child w/ RA. Life gives challenges to all of us. I believe you are a very blessed man.

I don't know if I make it too hard or not. I just know for many people, it is A LOT tougher for various reasons--and b/c children are individuals and eventually make more and more of their own choices. And at some point, they have to be allowed to make their own mistakes. That's a really tough place to be as a parent.

Be interesting to get your wife's perspective as mom as well.
Dads can tend to take a different approach.
Although it's a generalization, overall it does seem that often women do take more to heart than men. They often cry and pray more over their kids--in general it seems that way, at least according to how men share and show things--women in general are more open.

Each person's family situation is different. My kids are great, but they are not perfect. And I refused to me one of those kind of parents where my position was that my kids can do no wrong. That's nonsense and doesn't help anyone--and it doesn't help the children learn to be emotionally honest.

Also, I think a good deal of optimal parenting has to do with both mom and dad really being into their roles on all levels--not just with providing for the family, etc. I look to my father, b/c though he wasn't perfect, he was a great father and friend. He grew up w/o a father, yet he decided he would try hard to be there on all levels for his kids. I can't tell you how many times he worked shift work but still stayed up to help us with some kind of school project. He was a great teacher too.

I believe that it's got to involve a deeper commitment in terms of interaction from both parents. It's really hard for moms that have to try to be both mom and dad. Mostly that doesn't really work all that well. And even when mom kicks butt trying to do so, she is still one person cut into two roles as opposed to a parent whose children have enough active involvement from two separate people in their appropriate but unified roles--one mom and one dad.

Looking at so many people and families and children over the years, to me I guess it's really tough to say someone is making it harder than it needs to be. It may be harder, b/c, well, for one reason or another, it actually is.


Ed, you and your family seem really great. 🙂
 
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This thread jumped the shark pretty quickly. Parenting? Please. Parenting may be difficult, but is not a job. By definition, your personal life is not a job.

For me, it was stocking supermarket shelves overnight. Not extraordinarily difficult work in and of itself, but draining and a very unpleasant environment.



LOL. . .Wow. . .really amazing. . .you have truly left me speechless with that, well, rather trollish remark.:troll:
 
This thread jumped the shark pretty quickly. Parenting? Please. Parenting may be difficult, but is not a job. By definition, your personal life is not a job.

For me, it was stocking supermarket shelves overnight. Not extraordinarily difficult work in and of itself, but draining and a very unpleasant environment.

But the shark was just so, so, jumpable.

I'll admit that, as the OP, I should have anticipated it getting off-topic and tried to steer it more.

My original point was that life is hard for a lot of people, and I wondered if the stories of medical school were really out of whack with what people had already gone through. Is med school really more difficult than working on a fishing trawler, or picking tomatoes, or running a day-care center, or Army Ranger school....

I'm still waiting on a current medical student to give me an accurate comparison. You, Tris, are already disqualified as a known negativity broadcaster 🙂
 
But the shark was just so, so, jumpable.

I'll admit that, as the OP, I should have anticipated it getting off-topic and tried to steer it more.

My original point was that life is hard for a lot of people, and I wondered if the stories of medical school were really out of whack with what people had already gone through. Is med school really more difficult than working on a fishing trawler, or picking tomatoes, or running a day-care center, or Army Ranger school....

I'm still waiting on a current medical student to give me an accurate comparison. You, Tris, are already disqualified as a known negativity broadcaster 🙂

Ok I'll bite. In some sense it's comparing apples to oranges. There are different kinds of difficult. I mean the most physically taxing job for me was working as a bus-boy at Friday's when I was 15. I hadn't really finished growing and lugging those bins full of dirty dishes and garbage can-sized buckets of ice across the floor and essentially running non-stop for the entire shift... I remember my bones aching by the end of the shift. But it wasn't really emotionally taxing. I remember being happy the whole summer. I don't remember having my confidence jarred in any way. Plus, after work was over it was over. It didn't ooze into my home life.

Do I think med school is harder than let's say Ranger school, being a soldier, or training to be a fighter pilot? No. I seriously doubt it. But I will say this. Med school has been trying. (I'm speaking specifically of preclinical years) It is it's own special brand of difficulty. The vast majority of med students will struggle with burn-out. There's only so many hours you can study and memorize before it all starts to feel like a blur and your head is so full of facts that you can't seem to keep them straight. And eventually endless hours of memorizing and regurgitating wears on you. It's a weird sensation to be learning more than you've ever learned before, yet oddly feel stupider than ever before. And I say this as someone who's aced every test. But the jarring thing is that I don't feel like the grade reflects my command of the material. I feel like my grasp of the material is tenuous at best. You don't have enough time to really mull, contemplate, and process the material. There really isn't anything like it that I've experienced before. The first couple of blocks were very jarring. I ain't going to lie. For me there's just a pervasive sensation of feeling incompetent, like you don't know anything, and everyone around you knows more than you. But the upside is that things have gotten easier as I've gotten used to things and figured out techniques for managing the volumes of material that are efficient for me. Also, I'm starting to realize that most of my classmates feel similarly to me and we're all kind of in the same boat.

Also, while I don't feel the way Tris does about med school he is right about many med students using knowledge as a way to make others feel like failures or feel lesser. There seems to be endless variations on the theme of "pimping" in medical training where regurgitation of minutiae is used as a way to elevate or denigrate. Which seems silly to me because 99% of the time the only reason someone knew something obscure was purely coincidental or accidental (ex. they did their phd in the topic, happened to do research on the disease, or they're former SMPers and already took the course last year etc).

Case in point: I answered an obscure disease question from an attending. The only reason I knew the answer is because a character in a movie I saw recently had it. I didn't want my classmates thinking that this was knowledge that they should've known so I said "The only reason I knew that was because I saw XYZ movie" The attending chided me saying, "Why'd you tell us that? We were all set to be impressed by you."

I do think many people overdramatize the difficulty of med school. I'm sure I'll feel nostalgic for M1/M2 when I'm getting my arse handed to me during clinical years, intern year, and beyond. But I do think that each phase of medical training is generally unlike anything most people have experienced before so there's going to be an emotional jolt with each new phase where you feel on the verge of being overwhelmed and question whether you can manage. I think there's an adjustment period for each stage that pushes many people close to their emotional limits. To me that's different than other things I've experienced because even though I've done difficult things in the past I never really doubted my abilities. I have on several occasions even in the first 4 months of medical school wondered whether I'll make it. I guess the reassuring thing is that the vast majority of med students make it through the process and in each stage figure out a way to manage, cope, and succeed.

My 2 cents.
 
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In some sense it's comparing apples to oranges. There are different kinds of difficult.

With the caveat that I've only experienced the pre-clincial years so far, I have to agree with the above. I would take longer hours and more grueling duties if they came with the conviction that my time was being well-used.

In two years I'll probably find myself in the middle of some really difficult parenting days... will I wish that I'd spent my day instead memorizing which fungi stain with a silver stain and which with a Giemsa-Wright, and which have septate hyphae, macroconidia, and microconidia? (Maybe, I suppose, depending on how loudly my child screams.) But seriously, I'm waiting for the day when the lab report comes back saying "it's a fungus with septate hyphae that stained with a silver stain, and doc, you should remember from 2nd year which that was, so we're not going to tell you." On that day, I will say to myself "they weren't bull****ting me -- everything I learned in the pre-clincial years really was important!

So far it's not working hard that's tough about medical school. It's the combination of
  1. Never NOT having work to do. No leaving work behind when I walk out the school door. I should always be memorizing something. (That was a bit of a whine; feel free to dump on me. The other two points are more legitimate.)
  2. The impression that a great deal of my hard work is, in the long run, useless, fruitless, pointless, and wasted. The other day I found myself memorizing the metabolism of a drug that isn't even approved for use in the US. I wish I could say that it was a staggeringly exception to the general usefulness of pre-clinical studying -- but at my school, it isn't.
  3. Nothing to be proud of at the end of the day. Sure, I memorized lots of stuff. A third-grader can do that. I didn't improve anything, figure out anything, or solve any problems. In many cases I didn't really spend more than 1/2 hour learning anything of any real significance -- the rest of the time was spent packing related trivia into my brain.
I'm holding out hope that this will not be as much the case in the clinical years. Please somebody tell me I'm right?

But in conclusion, burn-out isn't purely a function of how many hours one works. The question of whether medical school is "harder" than other jobs (in many cases it isn't)... depending on what you're really trying to figure out, you might be asking the wrong question, or too vague a question.
 
I'm still waiting on a current medical student to give me an accurate comparison. You, Tris, are already disqualified as a known negativity broadcaster 🙂
Here, let me prove to you that I can be objective.

Of course, there are many endeavors that by objective standards are more difficult than attending medical school. In medical school you don't accidentally hit your thumb with the hammer you're using to pound nails all day, you don't wear our your entire body carrying lumber and sheetrock, you don't get dirty and grimy (the incidence of getting bodily fluids all over yourself in the clinical setting is highly overstated.) I would never compare medical school to Army Ranger training. In medical school you don't have to sleep outside, go hungry, and kill rabbits with your bare hands for food or whatever you guys do. And medical school may be in many ways less stressful than trying to teach a crowded classroom full of poor dysfunctional urban kids.

But in another sense, as nontradfogie said, there are different kinds of difficult. There is an emotional aspect to difficulty as well, and it is affected by your interests. If you like the wilderness and physical challenges, but really hate studying from books or just have no interest in biomedical science, medical school may actually be more difficult than Army Ranger training.

It helps if you have a goal in mind, too. If you're really looking forward to being a doctor, keeping your eyes on the prize may help get you through the trying times of medical school and help you feel that it's not so difficult after all, because there are peope who are on a fishing trawler or picking tomatoes just to make ends meet, and have no prize to keep their eyes on.

If you go into medical school sure of yourself and of what you want, and with a low time preference, then medical school isn't that bad.



Med school has been trying. (I'm speaking specifically of preclinical years) It is it's own special brand of difficulty. The vast majority of med students will struggle with burn-out. There's only so many hours you can study and memorize before it all starts to feel like a blur and your head is so full of facts that you can't seem to keep them straight. And eventually endless hours of memorizing and regurgitating wears on you. It's a weird sensation to be learning more than you've ever learned before, yet oddly feel stupider than ever before. And I say this as someone who's aced every test. But the jarring thing is that I don't feel like the grade reflects my command of the material. I feel like my grasp of the material is tenuous at best. You don't have enough time to really mull, contemplate, and process the material.
That is a good point. It really is a weird feeling, not something you ever experience in any prior schooling, and very difficult to explain to others, what it feels like not having time to process or contemplate what you're learning. You sometimes feel like you don't really understand anything. For example, you find yourself thinking things like "I've memorized all of these different things called cytokines, what cells secrete them and what role they play in signalling... but it occurs to me that I don't really know what a cytokine IS in the first place."
 
Be interesting to get your wife's perspective as mom as well.

I'm Ed's wife, posting with his login.

No, he wasn't the primary care giver and, no, he wasn't always there during the rough times - although he changed many dirty diapers. After working at a chicken plant I was overly-sensitive to bad smells and needed some help occasionally.

Being a mother is the most pleasant thing that I have ever done. Being a full-time mother made it easier. I can imagine that a mother who has another job might find it hard. As a full-time mother I was able to keep the house clean. Most days I would read 15 books to my children aloud. We spent time outside and played games. I wouldn't call this "hard" necessarily.

The thing about children is that they take more attention when they are young than they do when they are older. This gradual easing of responsibility is dependent on doing well when they are young. If the mother can be consistent with the rules every day - they don't change each morning according to the mood or tiredness of the mother - if the mother can consistently watch and quietly correct each deviation, then life gets easier pretty quickly. Children want love, direction, and acceptance. When they are given this, then parenting becomes pretty easy.
 
Merriam Webster definiton of the noun, job.

[3 a (1) : something that has to be done : task (2) : an undertaking requiring unusual exertion <it was a real job to talk over that noise> b : a specific duty, role, or function c : a regular remunerative position]

See for parenting especially (2)- & b

c: is also relevant; it's just the payment does not necessarily come by way of financial renumeration; but rather in considerable and other kinds investments.

It's a continuous longhaul job; and it costs and counts a lot in many ways.

You fail at this job, nothing else you do really makes up for it. It's that intense and that serious. I'm a jovial person; but personally I'm glad that I've always taken this role/job seriously.

It's like marriage. If people think that marriage doesn't involve work and vigilance in the relationship, they need to seriously re-think that.

Some social perspectives or perhaps lack thereof seem sad to me. But it makes sense when connected to sociological reasons for the divorce rate being what it is.

Final thought. You can walk away from a profession or a position. Sadly you can even walk away from a marriage (incurring considerable costs--tangible and intangible). And although some people do this, it's pretty near impossible to walk away from being a parent-mentor-friend to your children. And like vowing to "do no more harm" or to limit pain or advocate for the rights and interests of patients, which involve some "little" things called DUTY and due diligence, so too does parenthood--but for a lifetime. The fact that it is part of your whole life, which includes the personal as well, only emphasizes the overall intensity and sensitivity of the role.
 
Hey, Dentist82,

Were you in Falluja when they called the tanks in? We stayed in that old chicken farm outside of town for a few months after. Absolutely the worst time in my life.
I thought the town was cool, once it settled down, though. Made friends with a crazy red-haired midget that lived next to the dump. Snuck out a few times to play pool, next to a bank and a shopping area.

I feel exactly the same, about the bodies. The burning ones, the dusty ones just laying on the ground like they're forgotten. The ones that look like dolls, with their arms and legs bent all the wrong way. Your mind trying to tell you that the blood on the ground is fake, but you know it's real. You just can't seem to forget something like that, can you? No matter how hard you try. And the smell is so bad.

Did you ever translate with us around Rustimayah, around that bend in the river south of Baghdad?
What years were you rolling with us?

Those IED's were crazy, hunh? And those new ones, with the pellets and the shaped charges? Remember when they started poking rockets through little holes in the walls? And those damn car-bombers.

Man, it would be so great to talk with you. It'd be so nice to hear something good from that place. I've always felt so bad for you civilians that had to be around that stuff. There aren't enough words to describe how bad. So many mistakes.






Damn, I get moody around the holidays....
Sorry, guys.
 
Hey, Dentist82,

Were you in Falluja when they called the tanks in? We stayed in that old chicken farm outside of town for a few months after. Absolutely the worst time in my life.
I thought the town was cool, once it settled down, though. Made friends with a crazy red-haired midget that lived next to the dump. Snuck out a few times to play pool, next to a bank and a shopping area.

I feel exactly the same, about the bodies. The burning ones, the dusty ones just laying on the ground like they're forgotten. The ones that look like dolls, with their arms and legs bent all the wrong way. Your mind trying to tell you that the blood on the ground is fake, but you know it's real. You just can't seem to forget something like that, can you? No matter how hard you try. And the smell is so bad.

Did you ever translate with us around Rustimayah, around that bend in the river south of Baghdad?
What years were you rolling with us?

Those IED's were crazy, hunh? And those new ones, with the pellets and the shaped charges? Remember when they started poking rockets through little holes in the walls? And those damn car-bombers.

Man, it would be so great to talk with you. It'd be so nice to hear something good from that place. I've always felt so bad for you civilians that had to be around that stuff. There aren't enough words to describe how bad. So many mistakes.






Damn, I get moody around the holidays....
Sorry, guys.


Hey Wladzui,

Happy Holidays(late) to you and everyone else and sorry for late response. Man, so you were in Falluja during the first or second time? I was in Ramadi in BOTH times! lol, I finished college in Ramadi in 2005 and after I finished Ramadi was peaceful so I witnessed everything. I used to go from Baghdad to Ramadi everyday to college, passing through Abu Ghraib, Falluja, Khaldiya and Ramadi then back home same way, used to catch 10 buses on my way back and forth, and you remember how many IED's were there, we had to wait for hours to get to college for U.S./ AlQaeda checkpoints and keep your head down when clashes erupts. It was unreal man, I didn't care to die just wanted to finish college and get my degree, not sure if I will do it again! lol

I worked with the Army in 06 and 07. Worked in Diyala Provice (Baquoba) and it was very dangerous too for a year and a half and then in the IZ for the last six months of my service. Rustumiya was bad too!!! I worked with a training team from NATO (who came from Rustimiya) to train Iraqi soldiers in Diyala province. Rustimiya is where Iraqi military academy are. Do you know some guys in the NATO? what year were you there? Have you been to BIAP? I used to work there for the KBR.

Alot of civilians died in Iraq man, everyone who hates america came to kill and destroy in Iraq. And I agree with you man, when you see red things on the ground you try to think it's not blood. It is so hard to describe to alot of people unless you see it. Death everywhere, Iraqis became numbers when reported by media.

Yes, those IED's, actually I worked with EOD guys to train Iraqi EOD's and get alot of info about IED's. These guys I worked with used to joke with me saying I knew too much and time for "little accident" to take me out!! lol... fun times, when we were bored we go to the range and blow up stuff!! haha. The Iranian IED's were brutal man, the way they work, how different they are. It's ingenous and very simple yet f***** devistating.

I joined the army reserves and will be shipped to fort benning next month, I visited my unit last month (4005th USAH in Houston) and they told me I would give a lecture about Iraq, Islam and culture on my next drill middle of January. Man, I don't know where to start! lol but it's great that they are willing to listen to what I have to say, because everything you see in the news has other side to the story.

Yes, it would've been nice if we've met. Two LTC and many other NCO's thanked me before they left for sharing information with them about my religion and culture. It opened their eyes. No matter where you live in the world, your media is programming you. As long as you have one source of information, you're programmed!! We should step up and communicate instead of being politically correct and hide how we feel toward each other. ALL THESE ACTIONS OF THE TERRORISTS ARE NOT FROM THE QURAN OR THE TEACHINGS OF PROPHET MOHAMMED and I can prove it from sources that ANYONE can check for themselves but sadly not all people are willing to listen or READ!!! We think we know enough! Ahhhhh, too much to be said on that subject but thanks for your compassion with those innocent people who died over there and may God help us all to live in peace on this earth.
 
Dont' assume that "traditional applicants" have had an "easy life" without struggle and hard work. Its offensive. Just because you're older doesn't mean you are better and above others younger than you.

Why are you even posting here, then?
 
If I gained any insight from re-reading this whole thread, it's this--life really is what you make of it, and different people will define a job as being difficult based on what their own personal priorities are. I agree with nontradfogie that there are different kinds of difficult--I guess your own strengths and weaknesses will determine how sucky you think your current situation is--or how easy it is.

Re: the parenting issue: I agree with Mr. and Mrs. Ed AND all the other parents. Parenting is simultaneously the easiest and the hardest job ever. Which end of the continuum it happens to fall on for me on a given day depends totally on how I feel that day. Oddly enough, the more kids I had the easier it got.

For all the military folks (and I count you in here, too, Dentist82): God bless you all. I was in the rear in Saudi Arabia during ODS, and I knew I had it cushy. I am so sorry for all the things you guys had to witness/go through, things that no human should ever have to experience. I don't like to bring up my veteran status to people because I know that so many of my military brothers and sisters have truly seen the horrors of war, while I stayed in the Ice Palace, had hot showers, washers and dryers, and access to fast food (although the fried chicken looked suspiciously like rat). Again, God bless you all. And thank you for your service. P.S. to Wladziu--ignore those whiny b**chs on pre-allo. They are just jealous that your application will make theirs look like crap. You're golden, don't worry about it.

To everyone here on the nontrad forum, I wish you a very Happy New Year. Peace, love and happy thoughts to everyone, and I hope that the new year turns out to be a fulfilling one for you.

Edit: Dentist, I skipped the part about you enlisting. See, I knew you were military!!
 
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Dentist82,

Well met, brother.

Yeah, I know that road. Route Rat we called it, I think. IED alley. Well, one of them. The 4-lane with the median, and the guard rails we kept tearing down and putting back up. Is that the one? Comes into Baghdad from the southwest, bypassing the Green Zone?

We were guarding a few bridges in the capital during the elections. An English professor (a dark-haired lady, about 60 yrs old, spirited woman) from the university there blamed me for blowing up one of the big apartments on the river. She was crying so hard, and kept hitting me on my body armor. My boss called me a coward for letting her, but I felt so bad for her. And for all of you.
That's when I knew I wanted to go to college, to find some way of giving back.

The first time, in Fallujah. They called us in to bail out the Marines and infantry that were getting their asses kicked. When we left, everything went tits-up, again. It was before the tank-busting IED's really got going.

BIAP? Are you talking about that ING post with the Special Forces guys that never did anything, beside the Olympic Stadium? Or that fancy place in Baghdad? The names get a little fuzzy, with all the chemistry I've been studying! Ha ha!
It really sounds familiar, though. Spent a lot of time helping the ING training down there.
No, didn't do anything with the NATO guys, though.
Wait... are you talking about the place with the multinational tents? The Polish and Australian and everybody? Where that antelope used to run around, the one that got out of the zoo? The one everybody wanted to eat?

I respect the National Guard thing you're doing, and I'd love to watch you beat some racist's ass. You know it's coming, sooner or later. Be ready for it!
My own little brother just threatened to break my arm for sticking up for you guys. Don't let them catch you alone, man.

I would really love to keep in touch with you. Are you on any networking sites or anything? There's so much I'd like to talk with you about.
Good luck on your big speech! It's pretty encouraging that they're letting you speak. You've earned it! Kicks ass that they're at least smart enough to recognize it! A speech is a good start. I wish they'd give classes, but it's never gonna happen.

Please, just tell me one thing, though:
I was told after the initial war that the Fedayeen was responsible for recruiting infantry. Supposedly, they'd hold a family by gunpoint, give the males an AK, and force them to not come back before they'd emptied two magazines.
They said they were told that our tanks were made of wood, and the AK's would fire right through them. And that we couldn't see at night.
Have you heard anything about this? Anything at all?
 
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