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Alpha13

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Hello,

Often times I read here that CRNAs are lesser providers than MDAs, and that there are differences in outcome or scope of practice for the two professions. I'll cite some examples so you know what I'm talking about.

If CEOs and the public feel that CRNAs can do the same job as an anesthesiologist (which is what the AANA does through its publications about similar outcomes by CRNAs and anesthesiologists) then it benefits them to go the 'cheaper' route.
Take for example wikipedia. Look up CRNA...you will see amongst other things a link to "No Significant Differences in Anesthesia Outcome by Provider"...with no debate no discussion, no counterpoint. OK, it's an article about CRNA's probably written by CRNA's....

Then look up "anesthesiology" in wikipedia. The same article, "No Significant Differences in Anesthesia Outcome by Provider" is also cited in the links, under the subheading "patient information". Again, no discussion, no counterpoint, no clarification.
I'm a future nursing student with the goal of becoming a CRNA. I won't pretend for a second that I'll ever have the knowledge or training that an MDA has went through, but my question is in a practical sense, does this really matter? What is the benefit of an MDA performing a case rather than a CRNA? I hope my question doesn't provoke any heated responses because this is a genuine question, I really don't understand the difference between the two professions as they seem to both do their jobs equally well.

So again, if someone could educate me about the practical differences between a CRNA and MDA I'd appreciate it.

Thanks
 

Trisomy13

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Alpha13 said:
Hello,

Often times I read here that CRNAs are lesser providers than MDAs, and that there are differences in outcome or scope of practice for the two professions. I'll cite some examples so you know what I'm talking about.


...


I don't see the role of the Muscular Dystrophy Association in this discussion.

Unless you meant to say "MD or DO". I'm not sure what this "MDA" is.


:sleep:
 

DreamMachine

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What is the difference between a nurse and a doctor?
 
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threepeas

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Alpha13 said:
Hello,

Often times I read here that CRNAs are lesser providers than MDAs, and that there are differences in outcome or scope of practice for the two professions. I'll cite some examples so you know what I'm talking about.





I'm a future nursing student with the goal of becoming a CRNA. I won't pretend for a second that I'll ever have the knowledge or training that an MDA has went through, but my question is in a practical sense, does this really matter? What is the benefit of an MDA performing a case rather than a CRNA? I hope my question doesn't provoke any heated responses because this is a genuine question, I really don't understand the difference between the two professions as they seem to both do their jobs equally well.

So again, if someone could educate me about the practical differences between a CRNA and MDA I'd appreciate it.

Thanks
1. there is no professionally recognized acronym called MDA. use MD, or physician, or anesthesiologist, etc.

2. there are no random controlled trials that exist to answer the question regarding which provider is needed for which types of cases. so each profession should not fire salvos regarding this matter, however....

3. physicians have traditionally provided the standard of care to patients in this country. when patients go to a hospital they expect that a physician will be directly or indirectly involved in their care. subverting this with out full public knowledge is unethical and should be illegal.

4. The CRNA is an advanced nurse. they are trained to do procedures that traditional nurses dont perform and to make independent decisions regarding patient care. however this is supposed to be within the traditional physician-nurse medical model that you see say in the ICU.

5. anesthesiologists practice medicine which means they evaluate a patients medical status, development a treatment plan, carry out that treatment plan, follow up on the treatment. they do this independently, ie they are trained to operate autonomously. the physician has the right to delegate independence to a mid-level practioner commensurate with that mid-level practioners abilities and aptitude. that physician takes some or all of the responsibility for patient outcomes when independence has been delegated.

6. although CRNAs have participated in the clinical advancement of the practice of anesthesia, 99% of research articles that i find on pubmed are physician based.

so to summarize...in my ideal world the CRNA would operate like an advanced ICU nurse but specialized in OR anesthesia. simple as that. independence would be granted by the supervising physician commensurate with said CRNAs abilities and the comfort level of the supervising physician to take on the liability that comes with delegating tasks and responsibilities.

there is more to write, but i will stop here for now. i hope this helps.
 

Cap'nOblivious

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Trisomy13 said:
I don't see the role of the Muscular Dystrophy Association in this discussion.

Unless you meant to say "MD or DO". I'm not sure what this "MDA" is.


:sleep:
Trisomy, don't be sarcastic with your brother.

-Momma13
 

Laryngospasm

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Cap'nOblivious said:
Trisomy, don't be sarcastic with your brother.

-Momma13

Question has been answered, someone close this obviously inflammatory thread. If the OP want to know more they can look through the plethora of previous posts on this subject. +pissed+
 

ecCA1

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This really shouldn't be a source of much consternation on the part of the MDs on this site. It's true that the "MDA" title is there in an attempt to obscure the difference between the two, but ask any patient if they want a doctor or a nurse to care for them during surgery and the truth will play out.

Nurses are nurses, docs are docs. Both can do routine anesthesia. It's when **** hits the fan that the difference becomes apparent in terms of outcome.
 

johankriek

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Alpha13 said:
Hello,

Often times I read here that CRNAs are lesser providers than MDAs, and that there are differences in outcome or scope of practice for the two professions. I'll cite some examples so you know what I'm talking about.





I'm a future nursing student with the goal of becoming a CRNA. I won't pretend for a second that I'll ever have the knowledge or training that an MDA has went through, but my question is in a practical sense, does this really matter? What is the benefit of an MDA performing a case rather than a CRNA? I hope my question doesn't provoke any heated responses because this is a genuine question, I really don't understand the difference between the two professions as they seem to both do their jobs equally well.

So again, if someone could educate me about the practical differences between a CRNA and MDA I'd appreciate it.

Thanks
why dont you go to a nursing forum and ask those questions?


why come to a physician site to ask for advice about nursing school or what a nurses job is?
 

fakin' the funk

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Alpha13 said:
So again, if someone could educate me about the practical differences between a CRNA and MDA I'd appreciate it.
I think this is a legitimate question on its own.

But since this thread has ran into some (abbreviation-related) hostility, let me ask it a different way.

What should I, medical student and future anesthesiologist, tell my colleagues and nonmedical people when they say "Anesthesia? Can't a NURSE do that?"
 

DreamMachine

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fakin' the funk said:
I think this is a legitimate question on its own.

But since this thread has ran into some (abbreviation-related) hostility, let me ask it a different way.

What should I, medical student and future anesthesiologist, tell my colleagues and nonmedical people when they say "Anesthesia? Can't a NURSE do that?"
Would you rather drive a Porsche or a Saturn? Both will do the job of getting you from point A to B.
 

threepeas

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DreamMachine said:
Would you rather drive a Porsche or a Saturn? Both will do the job of getting you from point A to B.
my opinion on the CRNA issue is well documented. but this response will get you into trouble during a conversation. the saturn costs less and gets better gas mileage, and may have a better safety rating which i am assuming you are comparing to the CRNA delivering the anesthetic.

to the medstudent above. search the SDN and read all the arguments, but you are right it is a legitimate question.
 

DreamMachine

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threepeas said:
my opinion on the CRNA issue is well documented. but this response will get you into trouble during a conversation. the saturn costs less and gets better gas mileage, and may have a better safety rating which i am assuming you are comparing to the CRNA delivering the anesthetic.

to the medstudent above. search the SDN and read all the arguments, but you are right it is a legitimate question.
Are you a Saturn owner?
 
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