What is the starting salary for primary care physicians?

[sanfran256]

xx

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[DrMetal]

Specifically in CA (LA/ SD area). Thank you!

1.5 million dollars.

 

[sanfran256]

1.5 million dollars.

Not helpful :/

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

There's not really a standard starting salary for a specific geographic area.

 

[sanfran256]

There's not really a standard starting salary for a specific geographic area.

Not even a ballpark? Just trying to figure out how to pay my loans lol

 

[DrMetal]

Not helpful :/

Ask a better question---particularly one that hasn't been asked here a million times, nor one that you can easily google---and you might get more help.

$150-$230K. SoCal is a very tight and stupid market. I know, b/c I'm in it (San Diego). We have a plethora of prescribers (<---that's what they're called now, we've somehow evolved from 'providers'), including NPs/PAs/naturopaths etc, that have completely saturated the market. If you run your own practice and know how to bill well, you might be able to get into the high 200s, but it's becoming difficult.

We have year-round golf though.

 

[sanfran256]

Ask a better question---particularly one that hasn't been asked here a million times, nor one that you can easily google---and you might get more help.

$150-$230K. SoCal is a very tight and stupid market. I know, b/c I'm in it (San Diego). We have a plethora of prescribers (<---that's what they're called now, we've somehow evolved from 'providers'), including NPs/PAs/naturopaths etc, that have completely saturated the market. If you run your own practice and know how to bill well, you might be able to get into the high 200s, but it's becoming difficult.

We have year-round golf though.

xx

 

[DrMetal]

How is this a stupid question? And to my knowledge not answered a "million times" These answers are not readily google-able. The average looks to be about 240k-260k in the West region of MGMA. but I didn't know specifically in SD/LA (where my family and I reside)

Very low numbers though, may have to re- consider hospital medicine while paying off my loans

LA/OC/SD is tough. If you're willing to expand a little to Riverside and IC, maybe you can make more. Hospitalist pay is a little better ($200-250K), but that market is also very saturated.

It's also a function of how much you spend. If you have a $400K debt, and you're making $200K, live like you make only $100K/year, use the rest to pay off your loan, and you'll have it paid in 4 years.

 

[sanfran256]

LA/OC/SD is tough. If you're willing to expand a little to Riverside and IC, maybe you can make more. Hospitalist pay is a little better ($200-250K), but that market is also very saturated.

It's also a function of how much you spend. If you have a $400K debt, and you're making $200K, live like you make only $100K/year, use the rest to pay off your loan, and you'll have it paid in 4 years.

xx

 

[sloh]

I live in LA. Kaiser pay is pretty competitive in LA/SD. It’s around 230 (starting) to 270 (after you make partnership). Bc of behemoths like Kaiser, it’s difficult to start your own practice that takes insurance.

 

[rokshana]

How is this a stupid question? And to my knowledge not answered a "million times" These answers are not readily google-able. The average looks to be about 240k-260k in the West region of MGMA. but I didn't know specifically in SD/LA (where my family and I reside)

Very low numbers though, may have to re- consider hospital medicine while paying off my loans

Asked a million time on SDN... did you do a search?

 

[plsdoc11]

Does anyone have the Internal Medicine MGMA 75th percentile wRVU productivity number for 2020 (based on 2019 data)? I know for 2018 it was 6,009 but that number has probably changed a bit.

Also, when does the 2021 MGMA report come out?

 

[sanfran256]

I live in LA. Kaiser pay is pretty competitive in LA/SD. It’s around 230 (starting) to 270 (after you make partnership). Bc of behemoths like Kaiser, it’s difficult to start your own practice that takes insurance.

Those are good numbers!

 

[sloh]

Those are good numbers!

I thought so too haha. I’m PM&R and took a job with them my first year out. Our compensation is only slightly higher (partnership 280-290k). It did not feel sufficient living in SoCal. YMMV

 

[Splenda88]

I thought so too haha. I’m PM&R and took a job with them my first year out. Our compensation is only slightly higher (partnership 280-290k). It did not feel sufficient living in SoCal. YMMV

I guess one needs to make 500k/yr to live in southern cal.

i will go to southern cal for my 1st vacation out of residency to find out what is so attractive about that place. I heard the weather is wonderful; I wonder if one can't find another cheaper states (GA, SC, NC) with weather close to that of southern cal.

 

[sloh]

I guess one needs to make 500k/yr to live in southern cal.

i will go to southern cal for my 1st vacation out of residency to find out what is so attractive about that place. I heard the weather is wonderful; I wonder if one can't find another cheaper states (GA, SC, NC) with weather close to that of southern cal.

I am here mostly because my family is here. Weather is nice but I think you can find locations that are kind of comparable or good enough that paying the huge premium in COL isn't really worth it just for the weather. If I hadn't switched jobs and currently making a lot more, I actually might be contemplating moving. It's not fun to live here when money is tight, especially when you have a family with kids and partner might want to work part/half-time.

 

[experiment113]

What about in NYC and surrounding areas?

 

[Splenda88]

I wonder how much a house like that will cost in a good neighborhood in LA or NYC.

Lightning Bug Ln #4VD0KX, Lexington, SC 29072 | Zillow

Lightning Bug Ln #4VD0KX, Lexington SC, is a Single Family home that contains 3533 sq ft and was built in 2021.It contains 5 bedrooms and 4 bathrooms. The Rent Zestimate for this Single Family is $3,607/mo, which has increased by $3,607/mo in the last 30 days.

www.zillow.com

 

[sloh]

I wonder how much a house like that will cost in a good neighborhood in LA or NYC.

Lightning Bug Ln #4VD0KX, Lexington, SC 29072 | Zillow

Lightning Bug Ln #4VD0KX, Lexington SC, is a Single Family home that contains 3533 sq ft and was built in 2021.It contains 5 bedrooms and 4 bathrooms. The Rent Zestimate for this Single Family is $3,607/mo, which has increased by $3,607/mo in the last 30 days.

www.zillow.com

At least 2-3 million in nice parts of LA

 

[Splenda88]

At least 2-3 million in nice parts of LA

So most doctors live in a dump then...

 

[Link0358]

According to this, overall compensation is ~290K in LA and ~275K in San Diego for PCPs.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.doximity.com/press/doximity_third_annual_physician_compensation_report_round4.pdf

 

[wamcp]

At least 2-3 million in nice parts of LA

Are there really any internists fresh out of residency affording these homes? Need dual income..I doubt any bank is financing that with zero down.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

Are there really any internists fresh out of residency affording these homes? Need dual income..I doubt any bank is financing that with zero down.

The 2-3M statement was a little of hyperbole IMO.

Most similar houses in decent suburban areas (Anaheim Hills, Irvine, Newport, Cypress, Cerritos, Pasadena, etc) would cost 1-1.5M. If you’re willing to settle for something a little smaller (4 bedrooms, 3 baths, 2500sqft) you can probably find something for 800-1M.

If you’re willing to live in the Inland Empire (50 miles from LA), houses there cost half as much.

It’s not a total financial ruin to live in SoCal. However, it is unlikely you’d be able to afford the “doctor’s lifestyle”.

 

[Splenda88]

Look at me thinking that 500k is too much money to spend in a house...

 

[Postictal Raiden]

Look at me thinking that 500k is too much money to spend in a house...

500k is actually considered cheap even in noncoastal metros like Phoenix, Las Vegas, and even SLC.

 

[wamcp]

Look at me thinking that 500k is too much money to spend in a house...

I used to think that..but if you have kids, getting enough sq foot space plus being in a safe, desirable, good school district will cost you money. 500K+ often is very necessary to meet the criteria

 

[Splenda88]

I used to think that..but if you have kids, getting enough sq foot space plus being in a safe, desirable, good school district will cost you money. 500K+ often is very necessary to meet the criteria

What is considered enough sqft for a family of 4? 1400+, 1600+, 2000+, or 2500+....

In Western Europe, a 1400-1600 sqft home is good enough for a family of 4.

 

[Mad Jack]

I guess one needs to make 500k/yr to live in southern cal.

i will go to southern cal for my 1st vacation out of residency to find out what is so attractive about that place. I heard the weather is wonderful; I wonder if one can't find another cheaper states (GA, SC, NC) with weather close to that of southern cal.

Some people just desperately crave high taxes, wildfires, droughts, and bad traffic

 

[sloh]

The 2-3M statement was a little of hyperbole IMO.

Most similar houses in decent suburban areas (Anaheim Hills, Irvine, Newport, Cypress, Cerritos, Pasadena, etc) would cost 1-1.5M. If you’re willing to settle for something a little smaller (4 bedrooms, 3 baths, 2500sqft) you can probably find something for 800-1M.

If you’re willing to live in the Inland Empire (50 miles from LA), houses there cost half as much.

It’s not a total financial ruin to live in SoCal. However, it is unlikely you’d be able to afford the “doctor’s lifestyle”.

Sorry, my statement was more in reference to the 5 BR. I agree houses in the Inland Empire that are comparable are around 1-1.5 million. Riverside and Pomona aren't the most desirable places to live though.

I grew up in the SGV in a 4 BR, 3 bath; good neighborhood with reasonably good schools and about 30 miles east of LA; house is going for 1 million. I just don't consider that LA really.

Cities like Beverly Hills, Newport Beach, Palos Verdes I would consider a tier higher than Irvine, Anaheim, and definitely Cerritos. I would say to comfortably live in those cities with a 4-5 BR, you should be making at least 500k.

 

[Splenda88]

Some people just desperately crave high taxes, wildfires, droughts, and bad traffic

I dont know man, but there must be a reason why it is the most populated in our union. One of my acquaintances who is making bad $$$ (400k+) as a hospitalist who travel there a lot told me the other day he will move there. The reason was ethnic diversity, weather and 'good sceneries'.

 

[sloh]

Are there really any internists fresh out of residency affording these homes? Need dual income..I doubt any bank is financing that with zero down.

I know attendings fresh out of residency with 400-500k of debt making 220-260k considering moving into an apartment with a roommate (not their partner)

 

[Splenda88]

Sorry, my statement was more in reference to the 5 BR. I agree houses in the Inland Empire that are comparable are around 1-1.5 million. Riverside and Pomona aren't the most desirable places to live though.

I grew up in the SGV in a 4 BR, 3 bath; good neighborhood with reasonably good schools and about 30 miles east of LA; house is going for 1 million. I just don't consider that LA really.

Cities like Beverly Hills, Newport Beach, Palos Verdes I would consider a tier higher than Irvine, Anaheim, and definitely Cerritos. I would say to comfortably live in those cities with a 4-5 BR, you should be making at least 500k.

If reasonable housing alone cost 2-3 million, 500k is not enough to live comfortably IMO, especially since CA has high state income tax. I would put that number at 1+ mil.

 

[rokshana]

Look at me thinking that 500k is too much money to spend in a house...

Most places 500k is not buying you a lot of house...2500-3000 square ft?
Smaller towns this may get you a larger older house... not new construction

 

[rokshana]

What is considered enough sqft for a family of 4? 1400+, 1600+, 2000+, or 2500+....

In Western Europe, a 1400-1600 sqft home is good enough for a family of 4.

The US is a lot bigger than Europe in a lot of things... we use plates that in other countries are serving platters ...

 

[rokshana]

I dont know man, but there must be a reason why it is the most populated in our union. One of my acquaintances who is making bad $$$ (400k+) as a hospitalist who travel there a lot told me the other day he will move there. The reason was ethnic diversity, weather and 'good sceneries'.

NYC is still the most populous area.

 

[Splenda88]

NYC is still the most populous area.

Was talking about the state of California.

 

[Splenda88]

Most places 500k is not buying you a lot of house...2500-3000 square ft?
Smaller towns this may get you a larger older house... not new construction

I wouldn't say most (maybe many). Why would a mid/upper middle class family of 4 need a house > 2500 sqft? I can understand that if you are making 1+ mil per year.

 

[Mad Jack]

Most places 500k is not buying you a lot of house...2500-3000 square ft?
Smaller towns this may get you a larger older house... not new construction

The average cost of a new home in 95% of markets is less than 500k. You're... Quite disconnected from the average American if you think 500k is only buying you an old house in the sticks. Within the LA metro you may need a million dlllars for a newer home like this

17317 Lemay St, Van Nuys, CA 91406 | Zillow

17317 Lemay St, Van Nuys CA. The Rent Zestimate for this property is $2,537/mo, which has increased by $2,537/mo in the last 30 days.

www.zillow.com

But almost anywhere else, even near decent cities like Austin, a more recent home will run you much less

3306 Bratton Crest Ln #48, Austin, TX 78728 | Zillow

3306 Bratton Crest Ln #48, Austin TX, is a Condo home that contains 2368 sq ft and was built in 2020.It contains 4 bedrooms and 2.5 bathrooms. The Zestimate for this Condo is $538,400, which has increased by $3,386 in the last 30 days.The Rent Zestimate for this Condo is $2,580/mo, which has...

www.zillow.com

As long as you don't live on the West Coast or in NYC, decent homes in decent neighborhoods can easily be found for 500k. And 2500 square feet is *plenty of space* unless you have 4 kids plus

 

[sloh]

Within the LA metro you may need a million dlllars for a newer home like this

17317 Lemay St, Van Nuys, CA 91406 | Zillow

17317 Lemay St, Van Nuys CA. The Rent Zestimate for this property is $2,537/mo, which has increased by $2,537/mo in the last 30 days.

www.zillow.com

Van Nuys is a pretty sketchy neighborhood

 

[hotsaws]

I think it's highly dependent on what you're accustomed to. If you've lived in a nice suburb with a decent sized home (>2000sqft, at least), multiple car garage, large yard, and not a panhandler for miles...it's hard to ever leave that lifestyle. I can't imagine ever moving to a nice California city because of the quality of life hit that my wife and I would take. I would never live in anything under a few thousand square feet with a garage and a yard now. It certainly depends where you're at in life. I also prefer to easily drive wherever I need to be. I have trained with people that lived in cities where they would ...walk to the grocery store and then walk home and up a few flights of stairs with their groceries. They weren't poor, they chose to live in this setting. Never would I ever. If you're young and single, why would you want a big house in the burbs? If you have kids, you might need a 1000sqft just to store all the holiday decorations.

Last time I went to Europe, I came home real grateful to live in the US. Talk about a wealth gap...

There's a lot of decent cities in the US with really nice suburbs where you can afford a large, comfortable home in a good neighborhood for 500k. The southwest and Texas have some really nice places to live with overall decent weather and all the amenities of any large metro. The midwest has some nice places too but the weather is worse. I know nothing about the east coast.

 

[Splenda88]

Van Nuys is a pretty sketchy neighborhood

Buying a million $$$ home in a sketchy neighborhood. Amazing!

 

[Postictal Raiden]

Some people just desperately crave high taxes, wildfires, droughts, and bad traffic

I hear you. It's irrational to chose to live/practice in CA. However, some of us have compelling factors to do so. I would love not have strong attachment to this state, but unfortunately all my family and my wife's reside in SoCal. My wife and I are going through a constant internal battle to justify not to live in CA after my training. However, we also understand the importance of having our kids grow up around family. Endure the 10% state tax, the horrible traffic, the expensive real estate, and earthquakes vs not being around family? We can't make up out mind.

 

[Splenda88]

I hear you. It's irrational to chose to live/practice in CA. However, some of us have compelling factors to do so. I would love not have strong attachment to this state, but unfortunately all my family and my wife's reside in SoCal. My wife and I are going through a constant internal battle to justify not to live in CA after my training. However, we also understand the importance of having our kids grow up around family. Endure the 10% state tax, the horrible traffic, the expensive real estate, and earthquakes vs not being around family? We can't make up out mind.

Going thru that dilemma right now. I might have to decide to take a job that pay 60k+(with lower COL) more than what I would get closer to family member with a compromise to invest that xtra $$$ in real state closer to family. Will use that real estate for the family to spend thanksgiving, summer, Christmas etc... close to family. When not visiting, it will be on air BnB. But I have to be very strategic about it. 7 days on/off hospitalist will somewhat allow me to do that.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

Going thru that dilemma right now. I might have to decide to take a job that pay 60k+(with lower COL) more than what I would get closer to family member with a compromise to invest that xtra $$$ in real state closer to family. Will use that real estate for the family to spend thanksgiving, summer, Christmas etc... close to family. When not visiting, it will be on air BnB. But I have to be very strategic about it. 7 days on/off hospitalist will somewhat allow me to do that.

Actually that is a very smart idea. How far will you be from family?

 

[Splenda88]

Actually that is a very smart idea. How far will you be from family?

5 1/2 hrs driving distance

 

[Osteoth]

Seniors have gotten $260k for 4 days a week in NorCal, $250 for 4.5 days in socal at Kaiser and one other big group hospital.

Not sure about SD but would be interested to hear about it.

 

[InternistDO]

What about in NYC and surrounding areas?

For the city itself, between $160k and $250k starting, ranging from working at NYC Health + Hospitals taking care of the poor and uninsured to being an employee at a fairly standard private practice setup. I'm sure there are higher salaries than this for established doctors but this is what I see when I job search in the area.