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therock21

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Hey all,
I'm a pre-dent going to d-school in the fall so I don't hop over here that often but one of my facebook friends has been mentioning becoming a doctor, she hasn't used the term physician but she pretty much means it. Anyways she is going to National College of Natural Medicine and I guess will get an ND degree. What is up with that? Is that a real physician or just some kind of hippie doctor?
 
I think we have a lot to learn from those herbs/vitamins and all that. It's too bad there's no money in that stuff.
 
Is there a residency requirement in natural medicine? :meanie:
 
Is there a residency requirement in natural medicine? :meanie:

Only in Utah, according to wikipedia. 🙄

But yeah, naturopathic "medicine" falls under the realm of "alternative treatment" -- i.e., not research supported, i.e., potentially dangerous.
 
Theres a ND school out here in Portland, OR (go figure) The mantra is natural meds first then they go it with antibiotics and antivirals. If you become a ND I believe your only employment choice is a family or group practice.

http://www.oanp.org/train.php
 
You are pretty limited going that route. It is interesting, and we could use a lot more research in areas of nutrition and alternative medicine.
 
There is also an old adage where all that alternative medicine that has not been shown to work is called poison (and often still called alt medicine).

On a side note I love watching the youtube promotional vids
 
There is also an old adage where all that alternative medicine that has not been shown to work is called poison (and often still called alt medicine).

On a side note I love watching the youtube promotional vids

An ND vs DO + MD debate! :corny:
 
The school in Portland is a hipster magnet. I've seen a bunch of ads for ND's practices left in coffee houses in the area. Some of the stuff they do is pretty dang cool, I had a patient that gave me a prescription med list with beet root listed for their hypertension management. The hand-off nurse freaked, but the ER doc accepted it after contacting the prescribing ND.
 
The school in Portland is a hipster magnet. I've seen a bunch of ads for ND's practices left in coffee houses in the area. Some of the stuff they do is pretty dang cool, I had a patient that gave me a prescription med list with beet root listed for their hypertension management. The hand-off nurse freaked, but the ER doc accepted it after contacting the prescribing ND.

Haha I have to admit that is pretty cool that there are more "natural" substances with healthy properties... kind of like tart cherry juice for arthritis.

However the study behind the beet root claim was based on nine healthy individuals over a period of 3 hours. Great if it works long term too, especially in hypertensive patients. But the research kind of needs to be done... maybe there should be a ND/PhD track 😉.
 
You are pretty limited going that route. It is interesting, and we could use a lot more research in areas of nutrition and alternative medicine.

I agree that there is plenty more to learn about nutrition (or maybe just "un"learn.) I think nutrition should be society's primary focus when it comes to health, but it's like we still don't have an authority on what's really healthy. Seems like guidelines change all the time, drastically too.
 
In my last interview I got asked about Naturopathic medicine and what I felt about it, I don't have that much interest/knowledge about the field but it was uncomfortable nonetheless. Maybe that's why I got rejected.. boo🙂
 
But yeah, naturopathic "medicine" falls under the realm of "alternative treatment" -- i.e., not research supported, i.e., potentially dangerous.
I'm not arguing the validity of nutrual medicine but, um, all medicine can be potentially dangerous. just sayin.

just ask the dude in bed two with amiodarone toxicity and lungs like meatloaf. 🙁
 
Haha I have to admit that is pretty cool that there are more "natural" substances with healthy properties... kind of like tart cherry juice for arthritis.

However the study behind the beet root claim was based on nine healthy individuals over a period of 3 hours. Great if it works long term too, especially in hypertensive patients. But the research kind of needs to be done... maybe there should be a ND/PhD track 😉.

I took a peek at the study and it sounds like they measured it at 3 hours, but that theoretically the half life was 8 hours for the nitrates if they were pure. Here's the abstract for those interested. My primary concern is that essentially you're going to need, say, 800ml of beat juice a day once you get started in order to maintain the level of affect. Even ignoring the fact that it was only a drop of 10 (so great if you are pre-hypertensive I guess) and that you have be strict with times and with food intake prior, that's really inconvenient to have 800ml of beet juice on hand for your doses. Doable, but error prone. I would also think that when you can get antihypertensives at 5 dollars for target once a month, the beet juice is probably a lot more.

Abstract—Diets rich in fruits and vegetables reduce blood pressure (BP) and the risk of adverse cardiovascular events.
However, the mechanisms of this effect have not been elucidated. Certain vegetables possess a high nitrate content, and
we hypothesized that this might represent a source of vasoprotective nitric oxide via bioactivation. In healthy volunteers,
approximately 3 hours after ingestion of a dietary nitrate load (beetroot juice 500 mL), BP was substantially reduced
(max 10.4/8 mm Hg); an effect that correlated with peak increases in plasma nitrite concentration. The dietary nitrate
load also prevented endothelial dysfunction induced by an acute ischemic insult in the human forearm and significantly
attenuated ex vivo platelet aggregation in response to collagen and ADP. Interruption of the enterosalivary conversion
of nitrate to nitrite (facilitated by bacterial anaerobes situated on the surface of the tongue) prevented the rise in plasma
nitrite, blocked the decrease in BP, and abolished the inhibitory effects on platelet aggregation, confirming that these
vasoprotective effects were attributable to the activity of nitrite converted from the ingested nitrate. These findings
suggest that dietary nitrate underlies the beneficial effects of a vegetable-rich diet and highlights the potential of a
"natural" low cost approach for the treatment of cardiovascular disease. (Hypertension. 2008;51:784-790.)
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSodczAej_Q :barf:

As an aside the only efficacy shown for vit supplements have been when the patient is depleted. Vit C prophylaxis may reduce cold lengths by a day or so, but other than that not much support across the board.

Also love how is is modifying the strength of prescription meds w/ supplements. Effect is typically proportional to toxicity in those drugs....
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSodczAej_Q :barf:

As an aside the only efficacy shown for vit supplements have been when the patient is depleted. Vit C prophylaxis may reduce cold lengths by a day or so, but other than that not much support across the board.

Also love how is is modifying the strength of prescription meds w/ supplements. Effect is typically proportional to toxicity in those drugs....

"Red meat across the board has been shown to increase risks for cancers." :laugh:
 
is ND similar to homeopathic medicine?
 
is ND similar to homeopathic medicine?

NO.

The difference between naturopathic medicine and allopathic medicine lies in which chemicals they prefer to use to treat illnesses. Take, for example, the use of St. John's Wort as a treatment for depression. A review from Cochrane Reviews (highly respected by the allopathic medical community) found that St. John's Wort is significantly superior to placebos, so there is evidence to this idea.

Like I said, the difference between naturopathic medicine and allopathic medicine lies in which chemicals they prefer to use to treat illnesses. So naturopathic physicians presume that there is a physio/chemical interaction between natural products and the human body. In other words, both would predict a dose-response relationship between a chemical and its effects on the body.

Homeopathic medicine, in contrast, is not only interested in using natural products, but also is committed to this strange notion of successive dilutions. Look it up in wikipedia under "homeopathic dilutions."

In my humble opinion: Naturopathic medicine would benefit from a stronger research orientation, but its basic premises are scientifically reconcilable with allopathic medicine. Homeopathic medicine is a quasi-religious system of medicine.

In other words, and again in my humble opinion, here's my ordering of quackiness from least to most:
  • Allopathic/osteopathic/nursing/PA/dental
  • Naturopathic/Acupuncture
  • Chiropractic
  • Homeopathic
  • Anthroposophical (look it up... mistletoe for cancer!)
  • Scientology
 
NO.

In other words, and again in my humble opinion, here's my ordering of quackiness from least to most:
  • Allopathic/osteopathic/nursing/PA/dental
  • Naturopathic/Acupuncture
  • Chiropractic
  • Homeopathic
  • Anthroposophical (look it up... mistletoe for cancer!)
  • Scientology

HopefulDoc Wins The Thread. 👍
 
As much as homeopathy is complete voodoo and quackery, at the very least it's never directly harmful, which I'm not sure can be said about the other things on that list.

As an aside the only efficacy shown for vit supplements have been when the patient is depleted. Vit C prophylaxis may reduce cold lengths by a day or so, but other than that not much support across the board.

Also love how is is modifying the strength of prescription meds w/ supplements. Effect is typically proportional to toxicity in those drugs....
How about organic foods? Is that the same overhyped crap as vitamin supplements? I ask because there seems to be a correlation between people who take supplements and eat mostly organic stuff.
 
As much as homeopathy is complete voodoo and quackery, at the very least it's never directly harmful, which I'm not sure can be said about the other things on that list. "

Well yes and no to the harm part. People that get it in their heads that they don't need actual treatment (ex: strong antibiotics for their fairly aggressive staph infection) because their "cold pills and aloe vera" will do just as good.

Don't get me wrong, I do think that homeopathy is a good companion or good precautionary measure to use alongside modern medicine.
 
In my last interview I got asked about Naturopathic medicine and what I felt about it, I don't have that much interest/knowledge about the field but it was uncomfortable nonetheless. Maybe that's why I got rejected.. boo🙂

Wow. You were asked about how you felt about ND? Beautiful profile pic, BTW. You are an amazing person. You are my hero. 🙂

Endolas said:
I agree that there is plenty more to learn about nutrition (or maybe just "un"learn.) I think nutrition should be society's primary focus when it comes to health, but it's like we still don't have an authority on what's really healthy. Seems like guidelines change all the time, drastically too.

I definitely feel that more research should be centered around nutrition.
 
As much as homeopathy is complete voodoo and quackery, at the very least it's never directly harmful, which I'm not sure can be said about the other things on that list.


How about organic foods? Is that the same overhyped crap as vitamin supplements? I ask because there seems to be a correlation between people who take supplements and eat mostly organic stuff.

Meh, I can't say I've looked into it, but I wouldn't be surprised if people who eat organic foods are healthier. It isn't because of the lack of pesticides and what not, it's just means that they are eating a lot of healthy foods (fresh produce) and staying away from McDonalds.
 
Well yes and no to the harm part. People that get it in their heads that they don't need actual treatment (ex: strong antibiotics for their fairly aggressive staph infection) because their "cold pills and aloe vera" will do just as good.

Don't get me wrong, I do think that homeopathy is a good companion or good precautionary measure to use alongside modern medicine.

The only benefit that anyone gains from homeopathic water is the feeling that they are taking an active part in their health. That can be important, but I would NEVER recommend or approve of its use (which isn't to say I will condemn it's use). If a patient uses it and asks me my opinion, I'll tell them I think it is unproven but as long as they are not experiencing any unpleasant effects I don't object to them using it if they feel like it helps.
 
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