What is with people's incessant need to go into Ortho?

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Couldn't agree more. For those MS1 folks, it usually involves finding that they make bank on a salary survey, along with having that "prestigious title of surgeon." Most of these people have very little concept of orthopedics itself. They just like to jerk off mentally to the idea.
 
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The "ortho bros" of MS 1 and 2 are the medical school equivalent to the dudes at the gym in skimpy, loud T shirts two sizes too small pumping iron and dropping weights with animalistic grunts.
It's not enough to be healthy; you must make others notice yourself as the rippling he-man of the area. So it is also not enough to become a doctor; you must become only the most prominent, wealthiest and flashiest of surgeons.
 
DocWinter said:
👍

The "ortho bros" of MS 1 and 2 are the medical school equivalent to the dudes at the gym in skimpy, loud T shirts two sizes too small pumping iron and dropping weights with animalistic grunts.
It's not enough to be healthy; you must make others notice yourself as the rippling he-man of the area. So it is also not enough to become a doctor; you must become only the most prominent, wealthiest and flashiest of surgeons.
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It's the medical student equivalent at studying at Starbucks with your MacPro, taking up two tables.
 
JamaicanHerb said:
Its like theres a population in every medical class that can only see themselves as ortho from day 1 of med school and regardless of their scores think ortho residency is owed to them because they went to med school.
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A lot of young people have been treated by orthopedic surgeons before entering med school. Ever notice that the ortho people tend to be athletes? Not many people have interacted with colorectal surgeons or transplant surgeons or otologists or heme/oncs before med school. So not as many people could see themselves going into those fields.
 
tf21594 said:
why does everyone on this forum have a problem with people who want to be orthopedic surgeons?
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you arn't picking up the problem. we have no issues with becoming an ortho (i think its a great field)
what i do have a problem with is the MS1 with no understanding of ortho proudly stomping around the med school thinking their future as a ortho is set in stone, with nothing to back it up with. Literally 1/4 of our the 1st year class at my school thinks they are going ortho.
 
Tri723 said:
you arn't picking up the problem. we have no issues with becoming an ortho (i think its a great field)
what i do have a problem with is the MS1 with no understanding of ortho proudly stomping around the med school thinking their future as a ortho is set in stone, with nothing to back it up with. Literally 1/4 of our the 1st year class at my school thinks they are going ortho.
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And then half of them will conveniently "realize" that they're actually more interested in primary care after they get their Step 1 score back...
 
I find M1s saying they're interested in ortho is a lot like people saying they're pre-med as a freshman. Both have ideas about what they think they want, but it's too premature to tell if either will see it through.

Personally, I'm interested in it but feel like I need to wait till after Step 1 before I can actually express interest.
 
I think it all comes down to presentation:

People who say "I'm interested in orthopedics" or "I'd really love to do orthopedics" come across much less gunnery/douchey and I don't have a problem with them at all.

People who have no idea what it takes to match ortho (or any other competitive specialty) that go around saying they "just know" or are "100% certain" they'll do ortho are the most annoying. Especially when they're towards the bottom of the class and not doing well on exams. Reality check: you don't just pass medical school with a 75% and match ortho at MGH

Interest and passion are fine, blind confidence is beyond annoying.
 
And yet, for all the bravado in this thread, I doubt any of you have done anything more then post on SDN about it.
 
Honestly this can be applied to any of the subsurgical specialties plus derm. How the hell do you know you want to become a urologist as an MS1 if you haven't even learned the anatomy of the GU tract yet? These people are set on one specialty from day one and will consider nothing else unless things don't go so well on Step 1. FYI orthopods may make good buck but be prepared to do hip and knee replacements for 80% of your career. If that's interesting, then props to you but I would get bored by that sort of thing very quickly.
 
Well people definitely get excited about the field because its got some awesome pros going for it.. such as lots of trauma, generally healthier patients, fixing mechanical problems, less medical management, and a lot of the cases are planned or add on trauma, with significantly less night time emergencies (unlike surgical fields like gen surg or ob gyn). Also lots of ortho procedures are pretty satisfying long term slam dunk fixes to solutions.. which you literally never see in things like internal medicine where its so much management of chronic or slowly progressive illness.

what people may overlook is that its still a brutal amount of work and training and that its still a very challenging surgical specialty. Also, as with any surgical field, you've gotta think of whether when you're 50yo you wanna be the guy cutting someone open and putting things together in someones slimy, bloody insides. as in - do you really want to do surgery? personally, I'm really struggling with that. I'm actually still deciding on what to do and ortho is on the list and so is possibly general surgery, but at the same time diagnostic rads is looking a lot better.
 
JamaicanHerb said:
Its like theres a population in every medical class that can only see themselves as ortho from day 1 of med school and regardless of their scores think ortho residency is owed to them because they went to med school.
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Yeah, well it's a great field and let's not pretend like the many who made it to Ortho did not have the same initial motives. The difference was likely in who was able to translate their motives into good grades, board scores and clinical grades.

Pros:
Surgery
Instant Gratification
Decent salary.

If you don't mind the long hours I suppose it's a great fit.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
Good patient population, good outcomes, $$$, prestige of being a surgeon with less of the noxious surgery culture. It's a good way to go if you have the numbers and can deal with the hours (and if you find it interesting, of course).
 
Almost all the folks I personally know who are in ortho, or currently applying ortho (they got the academic record to make it realistic) seem pretty chill and low key about it. They're passionate and will talk about it if relevant to the convo, but not much more than that. I actually was surprised when I heard some of them were applying ortho, cause they don't fit the stereotype.

Also, it's beneficial to get research and make some connections early in med school if you're looking at a competitive specialty like ortho. So I kind of understand why those folks start gunning for it from the get go.
 
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Lord_Vader said:
Honestly this can be applied to any of the subsurgical specialties plus derm. How the hell do you know you want to become a urologist as an MS1 if you haven't even learned the anatomy of the GU tract yet? These people are set on one specialty from day one and will consider nothing else unless things don't go so well on Step 1. FYI orthopods may make good buck but be prepared to do hip and knee replacements for 80% of your career. If that's interesting, then props to you but I would get bored by that sort of thing very quickly.
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I had heard urology was a cool specialty before med school, shadowed a urologist for some surgeries, saw his short ass notes he wrote (minuscule compared to ED notes), and thought wow what a sweet gig. They also get cool technology and I liked the idea of being a specialist in GU tract and thought kidney anatomy was cool (undergrad). I researched a good deal about urology before M1 and I came into med school considering urology. Realized surgery was not for me not because I didn't like it, but because I liked something else more.

And as zeppelin said, if you think you might be interested in something competitive, it helps to be on your ****. I almost wish I wanted to do ortho because I'm close friends with an ortho chairman and another ortho faculty.
 
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VisionaryTics said:
A lot of young people have been treated by orthopedic surgeons before entering med school. Ever notice that the ortho people tend to be athletes? Not many people have interacted with colorectal surgeons or transplant surgeons or otologists or heme/oncs before med school. So not as many people could see themselves going into those fields.
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I was blessed to be under the care of the department of colon and rectal surgery at Mayo Clinic. Those guys were absolutely awesome. That experience certainly raised my appreciation for what they do and actually bumped general surgery into my interest orbit.
 
I really like the trauma side of ortho, especially hand. I used to work in level 3/level 2 ERs and saw what a benefit a single hand surgeon could provide to the community. Like someone said earlier, my interest is tempered by the fact I have yet to take step 1. I honestly don't enjoy the basic science of MSK which makes me wonder about ortho. That, and I am only 150 lbs. But anytime I am around ortho trauma, I just get so excited. Give me a year to take step and possibly complete surgery rotation if that's the first one they hand me and we'll see then.
 
Polonium-210 said:
I really like the trauma side of ortho, especially hand. I used to work in level 3/level 2 ERs and saw what a benefit a single hand surgeon could provide to the community. Like someone said earlier, my interest is tempered by the fact I have yet to take step 1. I honestly don't enjoy the basic science of MSK which makes me wonder about ortho. That, and I am only 150 lbs. But anytime I am around ortho trauma, I just get so excited. Give me a year to take step and possibly complete surgery rotation if that's the first one they hand me and we'll see then.
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Ortho trauma and ortho hand are literally opposite ends of the spectrum.
 
DocWinter said:
👍

The "ortho bros" of MS 1 and 2 are the medical school equivalent to the dudes at the gym in skimpy, loud T shirts two sizes too small pumping iron and dropping weights with animalistic grunts.
It's not enough to be healthy; you must make others notice yourself as the rippling he-man of the area. So it is also not enough to become a doctor; you must become only the most prominent, wealthiest and flashiest of surgeons.
Click to expand...
Describes my day pretty well, tell your girl I said what's up
 
I'm so not a jock, never lift weights, and don't watch sports balls... I think ortho is awesome. I enjoy playing music and art and cooking... I was a furniture maker before medical school. When I tell people this, their disdain for my interest in orthopedics definitely decreases. But seriously, WTF is with all the haters?

Some people think it's a great field, why does it bother people so much?

Goro said:
They like carpentry tools.
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This.
 
Bearded_Monkey said:
I'm so not a jock, never lift weights, and don't watch sports balls... I think ortho is awesome. I enjoy playing music and art and cooking... I was a furniture maker before medical school. When I tell people this, their disdain for my interest in orthopedics definitely decreases. But seriously, WTF is with all the haters?

Some people think it's a great field, why does it bother people so much?



This.
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Because gunners in med school treat it like it's the pinnacle of medicine that they have to get into and yet it's nowhere near as prestigious as neurosurgery, cardiology, or oncology ,where you're actually making complex life and death decisions on a daily basis instead of replacing a joint/fixing a plate hundreds of times throughout your career until you retire. Let's be honest. Orthopods get all the love by naive medical students because of the heavily inflated salary, cush hours, and celebrity-status in the hospital, not because they have any sort of genuine interest in the field (only very few do). The same exact thing can be said about dermatology.
 
MS1's who want ortho ≠ MS3's who want ortho ≠ MS4's who match ortho.

A lot of MS1 is bravado mixed with ignorance/fear. They are just trying to peacock, and saying ortho is an easy way to do so.

An MS1 told me last year she was super passionate about cancer and would definitely being going into a field to treat cancer, but hadn't narrowed it down yet. So that's pretty much every medical field ever. Surgical/medical, inpatient/outpatient, procedural/non-procedural, high pay/low pay, good lifestyles/horrible life styles. MS1's have no idea what is even relevant yet so take everything they say with kilos of salt.
 
Lord_Vader said:
Because gunners in med school treat it like it's the pinnacle of medicine that they have to get into and yet it's nowhere near as prestigious as neurosurgery, cardiology, or oncology ,where you're actually making complex life and death decisions on a daily basis instead of replacing a joint/fixing a plate hundreds of times throughout your career until you retire. Let's be honest. Orthopods get all the love by naive medical students because of the heavily inflated salary, cush hours, and celebrity-status in the hospital, not because they have any sort of genuine interest in the field (only very few do). The same exact thing can be said about dermatology.
Click to expand...

You jelly?
 
Lord_Vader said:
Because gunners in med school treat it like it's the pinnacle of medicine that they have to get into and yet it's nowhere near as prestigious as neurosurgery, cardiology, or oncology ,where you're actually making complex life and death decisions on a daily basis instead of replacing a joint/fixing a plate hundreds of times throughout your career until you retire. Let's be honest. Orthopods get all the love by naive medical students because of the heavily inflated salary, cush hours, and celebrity-status in the hospital, not because they have any sort of genuine interest in the field (only very few do). The same exact thing can be said about dermatology.
Click to expand...

Ortho is the exact opposite of "cush".
Hours are long. The work is physical and can be exhausting.
If you've ever rotated on ortho you'd soon realize why historically it attracts a blue collar crowd.
 
Lord_Vader said:
Because gunners in med school treat it like it's the pinnacle of medicine that they have to get into and yet it's nowhere near as prestigious as neurosurgery, cardiology, or oncology ,where you're actually making complex life and death decisions on a daily basis instead of replacing a joint/fixing a plate hundreds of times throughout your career until you retire. Let's be honest. Orthopods get all the love by naive medical students because of the heavily inflated salary, cush hours, and celebrity-status in the hospital, not because they have any sort of genuine interest in the field (only very few do). The same exact thing can be said about dermatology.
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This is a bad post and you should feel bad about it.
 
At my school pretty much 50% of the white males in my class want to be orthopods.

After Step, 3rd year, and the match itself I'm pretty sure that's not going to work out.
 
Polonium-210 said:
I was blessed to be under the care of the department of colon and rectal surgery at Mayo Clinic. Those guys were absolutely awesome. That experience certainly raised my appreciation for what they do and actually bumped general surgery into my interest orbit.
Click to expand...

My wife considered colorectal surgery, in part because the patients are so appreciative and thankful. They just want to be able to poop.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
I think a big reason is that people conceptually understand what ortho is before med school. People don't necessarily get what a hepatologist or urologist does, or the medical science behind most specialties. I think it is hard to appreciate something when you don't understand it.
 
tymont12 said:
I think a big reason is that people conceptually understand what ortho is before med school. People don't necessarily get what a hepatologist or urologist does, or the medical science behind most specialties. I think it is hard to appreciate something when you don't understand it.
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What do frogs and snakes have to do with ortho?


















Sorry, was lurking and couldn't help myself.
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
What do frogs and snakes have to do with ortho?


















Sorry, was lurking and couldn't help myself.
Click to expand...

694.png
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
What do frogs and snakes have to do with ortho?


















Sorry, was lurking and couldn't help myself.
Click to expand...

?

Hepatology (as you bolded) = branch of medicine that studies liver, biliary and pancreatic diseases

Herpetology = branch of zoology that studies amphibians and reptiles

Not understanding the joke tbh since i didn't see a reference to herpes in the quoted post
 
Lawper said:
?

Hepatology (as you bolded) = branch of medicine that studies liver, biliary and pancreatic diseases

Herpetology = branch of zoology that studies amphibians and reptiles

Not understanding the joke tbh since i didn't see a reference to herpes in the quoted post
Click to expand...

#rekt
 
Lawper said:
?

Hepatology (as you bolded) = branch of medicine that studies liver, biliary and pancreatic diseases

Herpetology = branch of zoology that studies amphibians and reptiles

Not understanding the joke tbh since i didn't see a reference to herpes in the quoted post
Click to expand...

It was a dumb joke. Was just making like I didn't know the difference between hepatology and herpetology. I didn't get very much sleep the last couple of nights because of duty and a sick infant, so in retrospect it wasn't as funny as I thought it was in my sleep-deprived state lol.
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
It was a dumb joke. Was just making like I didn't know the difference between hepatology and herpetology. I didn't get very much sleep the last couple of nights because of duty and a sick infant, so in retrospect it wasn't as funny as I thought it was in my sleep-deprived state lol.
Click to expand...
I thought it was corny funny fwiw.

Sent from my trltetmo using SDN mobile
 
Lord_Vader said:
Because gunners in med school treat it like it's the pinnacle of medicine that they have to get into and yet it's nowhere near as prestigious as neurosurgery, cardiology, or oncology ,where you're actually making complex life and death decisions on a daily basis instead of replacing a joint/fixing a plate hundreds of times throughout your career until you retire. Let's be honest. Orthopods get all the love by naive medical students because of the heavily inflated salary, cush hours, and celebrity-status in the hospital, not because they have any sort of genuine interest in the field (only very few do). The same exact thing can be said about dermatology.
Click to expand...

Hahaha. I must have missed the memo about cush hours. I still work 80 hrs/week as an attending (not all of it is patient care, but admin and research and straight up paperwork suck your time away too). Heavily inflated salaries aren't the norm anymore; bundled payments and Obama saw to that. And sure, I don't get to save a life, unless of course I ex-fix a pelvic fracture that's bleeding to death and stabilize their vitals long enough for gensurg to get to them. 😉 orthopaedics is fascinating and complex; there is no such thing as fixing a plate hundreds of times. Every patient is different, anatomy, comorbidities etc, and thus every surgical plan is different, with just enough similarity to make you not curl up into a terrified ball every time you go into the OR. It's an attractive specialty because it is understandable and fun, but don't for a moment mistake it as glamorous, or you will make the same error you're accusing these "naive" students of.
 
Poorly repressed sadomasochism? Like I sincerely think that if giving and receiving beatings were more socially acceptable, fewer people would seek it out in their career paths.
 
Meh...I think it's a great field, and I don't judge anyone for wanting it. No one should assume they will match into anything. We had a lot of people who switched from surgical subspecialies to primary care after step 1. They are just making a wise choice. If they want ortho, there is nothing wrong with being frank.
 
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