What is your point of disagreement with the SDN hive mind?

[ThoracicGuy]

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Alternative medicine is here to stay in my opinion. Hell, when it was first recognized in the medical community Osteopathic medicine was in the same boat as Naturopathic Physicians are in today, just with much less bureaucratic red tape to fight through, during the days when men were men and lawyers didn't rule every decision we make. I highly recommend shadowing with an alternative practitioner to see what it's about and what they do. You might be impressed at the difference they can make in the lives of the chronically ill, even if it is mostly quality of life related. I look at it this way; Many of the attacks against alternative medicine go along the lines of "It hasn't been proven/ it isn't scientifically based", and are similar to blindly following a religion, in that you reject it because the practices may conflict with your deeply ingrained beliefs about what is possible. However, many treatments, especially herbal, might just have biochemical basis that simply haven't been elucidated yet. Look at it metaphorically as taking an orange vs. taking a vitamin c pill. You would say the orange is the better option, yes? The benefit from the vitamin c is the same, but biologically the orange is better because there are multiple chemicals within the orange itself that allow for integration and amplification of their beneficial effects, and these interactions may be too complicated to ever prove through a specific pathway, other than to say "They work so we'd might as well use them". That is natural medicine at it's core. Ignore the BS like homeopathy.

Many of them believe in chelation therapies and homeopathy. Get back to me when naturopathic programs take a firm stand against this. Get back to me when their classes have the rigor of real physicians. Making a poultice of herbs is not going to cure someone's cancer, but yet many of these naturopaths spout this nonsense. No. they are not in the same league to even be talked about.

 

[Promethean]

I hadn't noticed that there is a hivemind. On almost any discussion, you will see dissent and varied opinions. Some posters handle this more gracefully than others.

Some ideas are more popular, because the experiences of hundreds and thousands of people have borne them out. There are some schools that you should not consider going to, even if it means not getting to become a physician at all. (I'm looking at you, Caribbean!) Especially if they are willing to admit you with your MCAT of 18 and 2.7 GPA. These aren't examples of groupthink, but rather good sense. And even on these topics, there is debate.

 

[mehc012]

I thought I was the only one to do that. I sometimes wait and get excited when I see a certain group of posters have already made it to the thread. Then I just like their posts and move on. Although, I've started just quoting myself from prior threads. Write a long post once and then copy/paste it. Dorky, but surprisingly (well, not really) effective.

I'm "just a premed", so I don't bother quoting myself most times, as people tend to dismiss it and go "oh, but I'm waiting for @x, @y, and @z to answer it, not some random premed," like the residents and adcoms who spend their time on here are somehow at the beck and call of every first-poster who has stumbled upon their name already. So instead, I've taken to quoting the answers from people like yourself, or like the adcoms. It also gives a little plug for the search function, tbh.

Now, I admit that if I typed out my own answer (based on spending so much time on SDN already) and someone shuts me down like the above just because I'm a premed, I do enjoy finding as many instances of the respected posters saying the same thing as me as possible and quoting them all at once. Because I'm a terrible person.

 

[Psai]

The notion that state schools are huge jokes academically, and that it's just easy to do well in classes at these schools. It's oftentimes a case where there is no curve at all, no matter how poorly people did on an exam. I go to a really low-ranked undergrad (had other options but couldn't afford them and had family issues) and we had no curve in General Chemistry or OChem. Plenty of people failed these classes too, whereas there are a lot of reports of grade inflation at top-tier schools. I'm not disputing that some top-tiers have a ton of competition in the pre-reqs (e.g. WashU), but I just don't agree with the conception a lot of people on here have of lower-ranked schools. Most professors in the STEM department at my university are intelligent and experienced enough to know that if they give students a false impression of their abilities, it will only do them a disservice.

Many of the people at the top of my class are from random state schools that I've never heard of and a majority of the ivy league people are in the middle of the class.

 

[Cyndaquil MD]

Lets not forget the fella claiming having to pay an income tax was equivalent to being robbed.

Haha, oh yeah. So many "shake my head" moments in that thread.

 

[Cyndaquil MD]

Its a simple case of cognitive dissonance. I don't hate Obamacare, I just really think it is about the worst way we could have gone about reform. It's a minor net positive that should have been a great positive, and I find it infuriating how poorly the law was crafted. It's the legal equivalent of redirecting a train that was on a track about to kill 100 people to a different track that kills 98- it's an overall net positive but still is ultimately just killing a while bunch of different people.

I wonder if you could have made a better decision, given the political environment and the constant push-back for the sake of push-back from the other party.

Though after going through your thread, it seems like what really bugged you the most was the decrease in income under Obamacare.

 

[Mad Jack]

I wonder if you could have made a better decision, given the political environment and the constant push-back for the sake of push-back from the other party.

Though after going through your thread, it seems like what really bugged you the most was the decrease in income under Obamacare.

Income is definitely a factor. I'm not going 400k in debt to come out making 100k a year 😉

The biggest thing that bothers me about it isn't the income though, it's that it basically put insurance companies in a position where they can abuse patients and physicians even more than they currently do.

 

[darkjedi]

Alternative medicine is here to stay in my opinion. Hell, when it was first recognized in the medical community Osteopathic medicine was in the same boat as Naturopathic Physicians are in today, just with much less bureaucratic red tape to fight through, during the days when men were men and lawyers didn't rule every decision we make. I highly recommend shadowing with an alternative practitioner to see what it's about and what they do. You might be impressed at the difference they can make in the lives of the chronically ill, even if it is mostly quality of life related. I look at it this way; Many of the attacks against alternative medicine go along the lines of "It hasn't been proven/ it isn't scientifically based", and are similar to blindly following a religion, in that you reject it because the practices may conflict with your deeply ingrained beliefs about what is possible. However, many treatments, especially herbal, might just have biochemical basis that simply haven't been elucidated yet. Look at it metaphorically as taking an orange vs. taking a vitamin c pill. You would say the orange is the better option, yes? The benefit from the vitamin c is the same, but biologically the orange is better because there are multiple chemicals within the orange itself that allow for integration and amplification of their beneficial effects, and these interactions may be too complicated to ever prove through a specific pathway, other than to say "They work so we'd might as well use them". That is natural medicine at it's core. Ignore the BS like homeopathy.

The obvious joke is of course "What do they call alternative medicine that works? Medicine"

There are many mainstream medications that are derived from 'natural' sources. Aspirin, digoxin, taxol to name a few. Of course they are all now considered empirically tested and validated as proper treatment regimens.
Is there any doctor in the world that would say taking Vit C is better than just eating an orange? Of course not (though that's not to mention that theres zero evidence that it actually works). If there is a natural alternative that actually works better, of course physicians will recommend that. It's just that they won't recommend a non-proven treatment over one that has been proven to work. There's a reason alternative medicine is not recognized, and it's because 99% of it is bunk. If it actually worked, it would just get incorporated into modern medicine.

 

[jqueb29]

Lets not forget the fella claiming having to pay an income tax was equivalent to being robbed.

A significant percentage of income tax goes to horribly inefficient and/or unnecessary and/or controversial programs.

 

[mehc012]

A significant percentage of income tax goes to horribly inefficient and/or unnecessary and/or controversial programs.

That's kind of the way democracy works. If 51% of people support a program, it wins and gets to exist. Anything that is split 49-51% is definitely controversial, though. Now, I know it's more complicated here than a straight-up democracy, but the same general principle applies...controversy gets decided in one direction or the other, and the losing half has to deal with that.

 

[WingedOx]

A significant percentage of income tax goes to horribly inefficient and/or unnecessary and/or controversial programs.

I know. Totally different than other regressive taxation.

 

[touchpause13]

Ya'll know my disagreements lol

 

[Mad Jack]

Alternative medicine is here to stay in my opinion. Hell, when it was first recognized in the medical community Osteopathic medicine was in the same boat as Naturopathic Physicians are in today, just with much less bureaucratic red tape to fight through, during the days when men were men and lawyers didn't rule every decision we make. I highly recommend shadowing with an alternative practitioner to see what it's about and what they do. You might be impressed at the difference they can make in the lives of the chronically ill, even if it is mostly quality of life related. I look at it this way; Many of the attacks against alternative medicine go along the lines of "It hasn't been proven/ it isn't scientifically based", and are similar to blindly following a religion, in that you reject it because the practices may conflict with your deeply ingrained beliefs about what is possible. However, many treatments, especially herbal, might just have biochemical basis that simply haven't been elucidated yet. Look at it metaphorically as taking an orange vs. taking a vitamin c pill. You would say the orange is the better option, yes? The benefit from the vitamin c is the same, but biologically the orange is better because there are multiple chemicals within the orange itself that allow for integration and amplification of their beneficial effects, and these interactions may be too complicated to ever prove through a specific pathway, other than to say "They work so we'd might as well use them". That is natural medicine at it's core. Ignore the BS like homeopathy.

As for the information sharing, yes there is good information and you have to know where to look on SDN to find the truly helpful threads. As I said above I see it as a big game of telephone; one person sees good advice and, through their own perceptive experience, spin it when they repost, slightly altered from the original point, and eventually morphs into "fact". For example, taking anecdotal evidence of someone with a 2.8gpa and a DUI getting accepted, while a 4.0er who did everything right never gets in. Respectively, these get morphed into either "don't worry, a 2.8 will get you in just fine" on the acceptee's side, and "med school admissions are impossible, you'll never get in with your 3.3 and 28" on the 4.0ers side when posting advice.

We have a name for alternative medicine that works- medicine.

Alternative medicine is here to stay because people, in general, are more keen to listen to their emotions than logic when push comes to shove, and alternative medical practitioners hit them right in the feels in a way that conventional medicine just doesn't.

 

[ERK123]

A significant percentage of income tax goes to horribly inefficient and/or unnecessary and/or controversial programs.

I have no issues with a nuanced discussion concerning the use of our tax dollars, but blanket statements like the one I originally paraphrased are idiotic in my mind. Often times outrage about the use of tax dollars and then justification for lowering taxes comes from controversies that involve less than .1% of the national budget (i.e. Solyndra, Welfare Queen, etc).

 

[clairephillips]

We have a name for alternative medicine that works- medicine.

Alternative medicine is here to stay because people, in general, are more keen to listen to their emotions than logic when push comes to shove, and alternative medical practitioners hit them right in the feels in a way that conventional medicine just doesn't.

I've never seen this before and it is my new favorite thing EVER!!!

 

[nOchemallday]

I disagree with the frequent piling on pre-meds for asking about physician compensation. I find it absurd that many of my peers think of medicine as something more than a job, and that deciding to become a physician partly due to the compensation means they won't be good physicians.

Agree with bolded. A job is a job. Related to that, I dislike the "these are the reasons why you have to want to go into medicine otherwise you're doing it for the wrong reasons/won't be good at it" mentality. And that list is always followed by the "bad" reasons for going into the field - which make you a terrible person for even considering.

 

[Psai]

I disagree with the frequent piling on pre-meds for asking about physician compensation. I find it absurd that many of my peers think of medicine as something more than a job, and that deciding to become a physician partly due to the compensation means they won't be good physicians.

it is more than a job. if you want a 36 hours a week punch the clock kind of deal, be a nurse. you need inner motivation to do well because the money is just not worth it for most things. no one is forcing you to study hard, you need to be able to do it yourself and learn things on your own because people won't hold your hand

 

[gyngyn]

it is more than a job. if you want a 36 hours a week punch the clock kind of deal, be a nurse. you need inner motivation to do well because the money is just not worth it for most things. no one is forcing you to study hard, you need to be able to do it yourself and learn things on your own because people won't hold your hand

Yes, way more than a job. The 80 hour work week is only for residents, not attendings. If you aren't in it for the mission, rough times and no sympathy for it.

 

[Zebra Hunter]

it is more than a job. if you want a 36 hours a week punch the clock kind of deal, be a nurse. you need inner motivation to do well because the money is just not worth it for most things. no one is forcing you to study hard, you need to be able to do it yourself and learn things on your own because people won't hold your hand

Oh please, plenty of people are able to bust their ass without having this idealistic vision of what medicine is like. The money is actually quite worth it in many cases, and there aren't many jobs you'll find outside of medicine that essentially guarantee the sort of salary you'll see with many specialties. Sure, you shouldn't hate what you're doing, but that goes for every single job out there, and isn't specific to medicine.

 

[Mad Jack]

Oh please, plenty of people are able to bust their ass without having this idealistic vision of what medicine is like. The money is actually quite worth it in many cases, and there aren't many jobs you'll find outside of medicine that essentially guarantee the sort of salary you'll see with many specialties. Sure, you shouldn't hate what you're doing, but that goes for every single job out there, and isn't specific to medicine.

The time invested to benefit ratio really isn't all that fantastic in medicine unless you end up in a really lucrative specialty.

 

[Zebra Hunter]

The time invested to benefit ratio really isn't all that fantastic in medicine unless you end up in a really lucrative specialty.

As compared to what? Maybe a dentist, petroleum engineering, and investment banking? (Not like any of those are walks in the park, either)

 

[gyngyn]

Oh please, plenty of people are able to bust their ass without having this idealistic vision of what medicine is like. The money is actually quite worth it in many cases, and there aren't many jobs you'll find outside of medicine that essentially guarantee the sort of salary you'll see with many specialties. Sure, you shouldn't hate what you're doing, but that goes for every single job out there, and isn't specific to medicine.

I have had a young woman die with my hands in her guts, and then have go explain to her family why she bled to death in a hospital.
I have delivered a dead baby from a mother of three, only to watch her also die slowly over the course of weeks in an ICU despite our best efforts, while her little boys watched.
I have told young parents that their wanted fetus has an anomaly incompatible with life and helped them choose termination methods.
I have seen a beautiful 21 year old suffer multi organ system failure from Lupus while her mother prayed every day for months only to be rewarded with her subcutaneous emphysema, mortification and merciful death.

These are but a few of the hundreds of occasions that exemplify why this is not a normal job.
Admittedly, my specialty is more likely to put one at the cutting edge of human experience, but every specialty has moments that make every other "job" exactly that.
The money can be good but don't do this for the money.

 

[dechristine]

I am tired of seeing Asians described as "4.0 automatons that are a dime a dozen". I'm not an adcom so I couldn't tell you how often these applicants actually pop up, how often these applicants are Asian, and whether or not it's due to confirmation bias. However, I would appreciate being treated as an individual instead of a stereotype of my racial group (I am sure many URMs feel the same). I also feel like racism is too often thought of as a purely "black and white" issue in America, but that's for another thread. 🙄

 

[Zebra Hunter]

I have had a young woman die with my hands in her guts.
I have delivered a dead baby from a mother of three, only to watch her also die over the course of weeks despite our best efforts.
I have often counseled young parents that their fetus had an anomaly incompatible with life.

These are but a few of the hundreds of occasions that exemplify why this is not a normal job.
Admittedly, my specialty is more likely to put one at the cutting edge of human experience, but every specialty has moments that that make every other "job" exactly that.
The money can be good but don't do this for the money.

I hate how this conversation always devolves into black-and-white scenarios. You are either doing it all for money or you're doing it for the right reasons. There are many perks to the job outside of the paycheck, the paycheck just happens be a significant perk. I love medicine, I also like making money, is that really so wrong? I would be just as worried about the medicine purists that go out into the real world of a practicing physician and become disillusioned by the amount of bureaucratic hoops you have to jump through.

 

[deleted407021]

I am tired of seeing Asians described as "4.0 automatons that are a dime a dozen". I'm not an adcom so I couldn't tell you how often these applicants actually pop up, how often these applicants are Asian, and whether or not it's due to confirmation bias. However, I would appreciate being treated as an individual instead of a stereotype of my racial group (I am sure many URMs feel the same). I also feel like racism is too often thought of as a purely "black and white" issue in America, but that's for another thread. 🙄

Where is this happening? I don't see any of it.

 

[gyngyn]

I hate how this conversation always devolves into black-and-white scenarios. You are either doing it all for money or you're doing it for the right reasons. There are many perks to the job outside of the paycheck, the paycheck just happens be a significant perk. I love medicine, I also like making money, is that really so wrong? I would be just as worried about the medicine purists that go out into the real world of a practicing physician and become disillusioned by the amount of bureaucratic hoops you have to jump through.

There is nothing "black and white" about it. There is nothing wrong with money. But there is no amount of money that would make the participation in these events worth it if you are not committed to alleviating suffering. There is more regulation of the practice of medicine than any other field. My point is that money is an insignificant part of the reward for people who are going to live their life as a physician with dignity and satisfaction.

 

[Mad Jack]

As compared to what? Maybe a dentist, petroleum engineering, and investment banking? (Not like any of those are walks in the park, either)

Hell, if you end up in a lower paying specialty, you could actually be damn near out-earned by a frugal physician assistant that invests wisely over the course of their lifetime. Keep in mind that the extremely lucrative residencies are the exception, not the rule, so most people will end up in the 200-250k range before taxes, not making 400k+.

Regardless, many people think it's just a job, but it's not. Many people lose almost everything they care about, lose touch with damn near everyone they love, and let much of what comprises them as a person slip away as training goes on. Then one day they wake up and realize they're 31 years old and have damn near nothing in their life but medicine, and a couple of kids they never see if they're lucky. That they'll be taking call late into the night and on weekends on and off until they die, and that their ass is on the hook for millions if they make a mistake, so everything they've earned could be taken in a second. While I don't think that being a physician that views it as just a job is impossible, I do think it will make you absolutely miserable.

As a profession, we've got a suicide rate that is equivalent to that of many maximum security prisons. I think that stress, mismatched expectations, soul-crushing debt, and people going into the field for the wrong reasons strongly contribute to that. You have to take some joy in the field, or it will literally destroy you. Hell, you don't even have to care about patients, so long as you've got other things about the field that make you happy (autonomy, getting to work with complex problems, being able to do cutting-edge research, etc). But if it's just a job that you're only in for the money, you're gonna have a bad time.

 

[Zebra Hunter]

There is nothing "black and white" about it. There is nothing wrong with money. There is more regulation of the practice of medicine than any other field. My point is that money is an insignificant part of the reward for people who are going to live their life as a physician with dignity and satisfaction.

And I'm sure most of those people would feel the same way if it paid $75k/yr

 

[gyngyn]

And I'm sure most of those people would feel the same way if it paid $75k/yr

And your point?

 

[Zebra Hunter]

Hell, if you end up in a lower paying specialty, you could actually be damn near out-earned by a frugal physician assistant that invests wisely over the course of their lifetime. Keep in mind that the extremely lucrative residencies are the exception, not the rule, so most people will end up in the 200-250k range before taxes, not making 400k+.

Regardless, many people think it's just a job, but it's not. Many people lose almost everything they care about, lose touch with damn near everyone they love, and let much of what comprises them as a person slip away as training goes on. Then one day they wake up and realize they're 31 years old and have damn near nothing in their life but medicine, and a couple of kids they never see if they're lucky. That they'll be taking call late into the night and on weekends on and off until they die, and that their ass is on the hook for millions if they make a mistake, so everything they've earned could be taken in a second. While I don't think that being a physician that views it as just a job is impossible, I do think it will make you absolutely miserable.

As a profession, we've got a suicide rate that is equivalent to that of many maximum security prisons. I think that stress, mismatched expectations, soul-crushing debt, and people going into the field for the wrong reasons strongly contribute to that. You have to take some joy in the field, or it will literally destroy you. Hell, you don't even have to care about patients, so long as you've got other things about the field that make you happy (autonomy, getting to work with complex problems, being able to do cutting-edge research, etc). But if it's just a job that you're only in for the money, you're gonna have a bad time.

You brush off a $200-250k salary as if its chump change. Even accounting for opportunity cost, you're making more during your lifetime than probably around 95% of the country. Most people I know in med school do not "lose touch with damn near everyone the love". I'm sorry if that's what happened to you, but people can find time for most anything they want during medical school.

And as for the frequently misunderstood suicide statistics of physicians you brought up, go look up suicide attempt rates. You'll see that we are no different than the general population. Has nothing to do with how stressful our job is, it has everything to do with how good we are at killing ourselves.

 

[Zebra Hunter]

And your point?

I was being sarcastic

 

[Mad Jack]

You brush off a $200-250k salary as if its chump change. Even accounting for opportunity cost, you're making more during your lifetime than probably around 95% of the country. Most people I know in med school do not "lose touch with damn near everyone the love". I'm sorry if that's what happened to you, but people can find time for most anything they want during medical school.

And as for the frequently misunderstood suicide statistics of physicians you brought up, go look up suicide attempt rates. You'll see that we are no different than the general population. Has nothing to do with how stressful our job is, it has everything to do with how good we are at killing ourselves.

Actually, I made one error- the rate of suicidal ideation of residents is what was the same as prisoners, not the rate of suicide completion.

Residency is where you usually lose touch, not med school. Get ready for that.

 

[dechristine]

Where is this happening? I don't see any of it.

I think this thread sums it up pretty nicely, although it usually happens at least once every time the affirmative action or "Asians have to have higher average stats to get into medical school" threads pop up. Most of the time I brush it off but it gets hard to not take it personally when adcoms are continually describing Asians as "automatons". To be fair, lately I have not seen as much racial undertones to the statement (as in, it's used to describe anyone who has good stats but subpar ECs). However, it is still hard for me to read "4.0 automaton" without thinking that some people think I'm a robot who won't be a good doctor because my personality must suck if I have good grades.

 

[darkjedi]

I think this thread sums it up pretty nicely, although it usually happens at least once every time the affirmative action or "Asians have to have higher average stats to get into medical school" threads pop up. Most of the time I brush it off but it gets hard to not take it personally when adcoms are continually describing Asians as "automatons". To be fair, lately I have not seen as much racial undertones to the statement (as in, it's used to describe anyone who has good stats but subpar ECs). However, it is still hard for me to read "4.0 automaton" without thinking that some people think I'm a robot who won't be a good doctor because my personality must suck if I have good grades.

I am tired of seeing Asians described as "4.0 automatons that are a dime a dozen". I'm not an adcom so I couldn't tell you how often these applicants actually pop up, how often these applicants are Asian, and whether or not it's due to confirmation bias. However, I would appreciate being treated as an individual instead of a stereotype of my racial group (I am sure many URMs feel the same). I also feel like racism is too often thought of as a purely "black and white" issue in America, but that's for another thread. 🙄

I have never in my experience seen this in the admissions process. Goro was clearly speaking about boring high-stat premeds in general as well.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

I think this thread sums it up pretty nicely, although it usually happens at least once every time the affirmative action or "Asians have to have higher average stats to get into medical school" threads pop up. Most of the time I brush it off but it gets hard to not take it personally when adcoms are continually describing Asians as "automatons". To be fair, lately I have not seen as much racial undertones to the statement (as in, it's used to describe anyone who has good stats but subpar ECs). However, it is still hard for me to read "4.0 automaton" without thinking that some people think I'm a robot who won't be a good doctor because my personality must suck if I have good grades.

Did they say these "4.0 automatons" were asian or are you injecting your own words into this?

 

[Zebra Hunter]

Actually, I made one error- the rate of suicidal ideation of residents is what was the same as prisoners, not the rate of suicide completion.

Residency is where you usually lose touch, not med school. Get ready for that.

Most of the EM residents at the interviews I attended seemed to be pretty happy with their lives and the amount of time they spent with their family, I think I'll be okay. 60 hr work weeks are the norm for many fields outside of medicine (especially high paying fields), as well.

 

[WingedOx]

Regardless, many people think it's just a job, but it's not. Many people lose almost everything they care about, lose touch with damn near everyone they love, and let much of what comprises them as a person slip away as training goes on. Then one day they wake up and realize they're 31 years old and have damn near nothing in their life but medicine, and a couple of kids they never see if they're lucky.

 

[Cyndaquil MD]

I have never in my experience seen this in the admissions process. Goro was clearly speaking about boring high-stat premeds in general as well.

If you actually followed the entire exchange:

. Your system discriminates against asians right now, it's proven and admitted and even defended openly as ok by a lot of people on this board

When Asians make up ~40% of medical students, as they do at some schools I know, one can hardly say that they are discriminated against. They are, in fact, the most successful minority in the history of this country.

If you (as a member of admissions) set up a system that cuts their odds of acceptance by half just by them checking "asian" on their application you are absolutely discriminating...

As we pointed out before, and on multiple occasions, admissions aren't about stats only. 4.0/36 automatons are a dime-a-dozen, too.

 

[dechristine]

Did they say these "4.0 automatons" were asian or are you injecting your own words into this?

I have never in my experience seen this in the admissions process. Goro was clearly speaking about boring high-stat premeds in general as well.

I will admit that I may be reading in between the lines too much. I am not trying to imply that anyone is racist, I was just here to talk about how I often feel stereotyped on SDN due to my race. I think this post goes kind of into how I feel. I'd rather not get into an argument — I posted because I wanted to contribute to the thread instead of derail it into a talk about racism!

 

[sazerac]

I generally agree with the SDN hive. It has taught me a lot, and certainly got me into medical school as fast as possible.

The one point of disagreement I have with the hive is the idea that the true source of wealth in the USA is ownership, not income. I've broached the subject a few times over the years (employee ownership, stock options, etc. that are quite common in other industries) but I have been repeatedly shot down here by peers with far less experience on such matters but they do have this single-minded fixation on high income. I've basically given up trying to educate the SDN masses, and I let them live in happy ignorance.

 

[Goro]

Your words, not mine.

I never, ever, described my pejorative to Asians. 4.0 automatons come in all colors. And I've interviewed them!

Good reading skills will be important on the MCAT and in medical school.

I am tired of seeing Asians described as "4.0 automatons that are a dime a dozen". I'm not an adcom so I couldn't tell you how often these applicants actually pop up, how often these applicants are Asian, and whether or not it's due to confirmation bias. However, I would appreciate being treated as an individual instead of a stereotype of my racial group (I am sure many URMs feel the same). I also feel like racism is too often thought of as a purely "black and white" issue in America, but that's for another thread. 🙄

 

[Goro]

I stand by this statement and need to point out that good reading skills are important for success on MCAT and in medical school. And 4.0 automatons come in all colors. I've interviewed them!

When Asians make up ~40% of medical students, as they do at some schools I know, one can hardly say that they are discriminated against. They are, in fact, the most successful minority in the history of this country.

 

[blueharbor]

Good reading skills will be important on the MCAT and in medical school.

I dislike this remark for 3 reasons.
1. You use it in virtually every argument as your trump card.
2. It's unnecessarily condescending, and injects unpleasantness into otherwise civil debates.
3. You yourself misread/misinterpret/misunderstand comments All. The. Time.

Sorry, this peeve of mine has been simmering in the depths for a while and I just had to let it out.

 

[Cyndaquil MD]

I stand by this statement and need to point out that good reading skills are important for success on MCAT and in medical school. And 4.0 automatons come in all colors. I've interviewed them!

When Asians make up ~40% of medical students, as they do at some schools I know, one can hardly say that they are discriminated against. They are, in fact, the most successful minority in the history of this country.

You've made this argument before and it reeks of ignorance. Just because a minority is successful makes it okay to discriminate against them?

 

[Cyndaquil MD]

I dislike this remark for 3 reasons.
1. You use it in virtually every argument as your trump card.
2. It's unnecessarily condescending, and injects unpleasantness into otherwise civil debates.
3. You yourself misread/misinterpret/misunderstand comments All. The. Time.

Sorry, this peeve of mine has been simmering in the depths for a while and I just had to let it out.

lol His comments are so predictable.
-I'm an adcom so my word is law.
-You're saying something I disagree with. YOU MUST BE ENTITLED!
-What was your MCAT verbal score? Reading English is important~
-something something automaton
-NO ONE COMPLAINS ABOUT LEGACY ENOUGH.
-some other comment with racist or sexist undertones, followed by staunch denial and justification

 

[Cyndaquil MD]

Which respawn are you?

Not everyone you disagree with is a "troll".

 

[Cyndaquil MD]

You seem awfully familiar with the habits of the board, and a particular poster, for someone who has only been here one weekend.

I used SDN primarily for the school-specific threads when I applied to medical school and I resisted making an account for a very long time so I wouldn't have to engage in the neuroticism.
But after repeatedly seeing the same stupid arguments used in the URM/AA threads, I decided to voice my distaste for some of the opinions and users of this forum.

 

[Cyndaquil MD]

So you made an account specifically to insult other users?

That's what you call a violation of the terms of the site, boss.

*also I don't believe you

Oh, NO! You don't believe me! I guess I've lost all purpose in life...🙄

I've kept my comments civil, especially in the "controversial" URM thread, but I will call out other users on their ****, regardless if they're a student or an adcom.

 

[Lucca]

You've made this argument before and it reeks of ignorance. Just because a minority is successful makes it okay to discriminate against them?

The premise here is that Asians have been discriminated against and what Goro is trying to get across is that they haven't, not that it's OK to discriminate against them. You are inserting a premise you believe to be true into a statement that assumes that premise to be false.

The burden of proof is on you making the claim, not the denier of said claim.

 

[fancymylotus]

lol at the newbies and barely accepteds trying to call out the adcom members and practicing physicians.