What justifies a JD/MD

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Chemistry>Physics

Chemistry>Physics

Puggy
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Assuming you're able to get into both programs at a school and you somehow knocked the LSAT and MCAT out of the park...

What justifies someone getting a JD/MD? Aside from the snarky comments like "useless to get both" or "pick one". Does anyone have any serious justification of JD/md?

The reason I'm asking is because it's a route I'm interested in because I'm in a peculiar situation. I'm a poli sci/microbio major who volunteers in academic law research at our state school. The institute is amazing and the professors have enlightened me. I leisure read humanities, sociology, poli sci and I've gone through a couple academic law books (not text books but like 300 page books on specific material like sentencing guidelines). At this point I don't want to practice law but medicine I do want to practice. The poli sci major for me is a direct route into politics. I'm really civically engaged, intern in multiple offices, active in student gov. The whole deal. I'm a huge believer in the study of academic material for purely studying it and advancing it for your own growth / contribute to the field. I see myself if I were to apply to JD to be in it just to get more knowledge in it, almost like one does with a degree. Money is somewhat of a non issue, not really though. I'll pay my way through med school but with zero interest loans from my dad.

Is it worth it to get the JD or just stick to medical school? The med degree would hopefully be used for pediatric oncology research position.


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Is it worth delaying your life for 3 years? I think you would be better off doing a PhD. I imagine an admissions committee may not look favorably on applying to medical school while you are finishing up law school, especially if you are truthful on why you went to law school.
 
I think it's valuable if you want to go into medical policy. I think dual degrees are extremely valuable depending on what you want to do. It sounds like you would benefit from it. I, myself, love politics and all things policy related. Going back to law school years later after residency is an option I wouldn't completely eliminate.
 
EspressoDrip42 said:
I think it's valuable if you want to go into medical policy. I think dual degrees are extremely valuable depending on what you want to do. It sounds like you would benefit from it. I, myself, love politics and all things policy related. Going back to law school years later after residency is an option I wouldn't completely eliminate.
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Dang thank you for the input. This helps me sort out the options more. So you're interested in law as a route to politics?


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I know a doc who earned the JD because of his interest in environmental issues and occupational toxicology. Another practices as a trial lawyer in environmental hazard cases but having the MD is an asset in sizing up cases. Another I know practices medicine and might use some knowledge of family law in advising patients (and teaching students and residents) to pay attention to specific legal and financial issues related to aging and dementia. I also know a doc very interested in public policy issues at the other end of the life span who earned a masters degree in legal studies to be able to better understand the law including policy issues and the process of court decisions.

All obtained the MD first and then continued on in residency or later.
 
Chemistry>Physics said:
Dang thank you for the input. This helps me sort out the options more. So you're interested in law as a route to politics?


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sort of, yeah! I am just fascinated by policy and the importance of it. And while medicine is my true passion, I think obtaining a JD would help me succeed and make an impact, in the policy-realm, much more than not having it.


Side note: Have you ever heard of Universities Allied for Essential Medicine?
 
kavorca said:
Is it worth delaying your life for 3 years? I think you would be better off doing a PhD. I imagine an admissions committee may not look favorably on applying to medical school while you are finishing up law school, especially if you are truthful on why you went to law school.
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You realize that some schools have MD/JD programs right? They don't have them just to scoff at people who apply for them.
 
I am very interested in the same career path as yourself. I currently read casebooks at leisure and I find them fascinating. It's hard to really describe how nuanced the arguments are in the legal profession.

I was thinking about doing an md JD route into politics (obviously after a length of time in medicine) and I really have no concerns with "delaying" my life.

Can one of our physician posters comment on the difficulty of getting a JD during residency as described above?
 
ChrisMack390 said:
You realize that some schools have MD/JD programs right? They don't have them just to scoff at people who apply for them.
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I know, but the OP says he wants to get the JD for his own personal enlightenment/enrichment and his ultimate goal is to be involved in medical research. I just thought a PhD would serve his goals better. I was just assuming that he may not want to add 2-3 years to his education when it doesn't directly serve his final goals.
 
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I personally can't think of a solid reason to do both but...

We once had a JD/MD come talk to our organization who practices medicine here in Texas. By his admission, He got both degrees because his dad said he would pay for it (2 years UTSW, 3 years Penn law, 2 years to finish his MD at SW) and he didn't feel ready to stop studying yet. No super rigorous plan or anything, everyone in the room kind of chucked nervously but...he ended up taking a job at the FDA after finishing up his cardiology training. He said he really loved being able to see patients and consult for the government on products being developed for cardiology patients. Seems like a very niche thing! Never heard of it myself. Now he is in Texas and he mostly sees patients, but occasionally goes to court to serve on an expert panel for malpractice lawsuits. He said his legal knowledge came in handy there but everyone else on the expert panel is an MD or DO.

Not something I would choose myself and I think conventional wisdom is pick one or the other but hey, I'm planning on getting a PhD so lol what do I know about choosing.

http://austinheart.com/physicians/profile/Stanley-Wang-MDJDMPH

^this is the guy. Apparently he has an MPH too? Lol. Maybe email him and ask him directly since he seemed to make it work although he didn't have a concrete plan for using both degrees.
 
There is a malpractice lawyer who does radio ads in the greater Milwaukee area. He talks about his MD/JD all the time, using it to state that he knows how doctors should be treating patients, so that he can sue them effectively.
 
Just because you get the JD doesnt mean you have to do law as your primary occupation. Many people get an MBA and dont do business administration as their primary job description.
 
EspressoDrip42 said:
sort of, yeah! I am just fascinated by policy and the importance of it. And while medicine is my true passion, I think obtaining a JD would help me succeed and make an impact, in the policy-realm, much more than not having it.


Side note: Have you ever heard of Universities Allied for Essential Medicine?
Click to expand...
No what is universities allied for essential medicine


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Huge waste of time and money. There are many many threads on here as to why this is the case. Used to be websites as to why this was a pointless combo too. You won't find a job where you can use them both and will need to choose. You won't get paid more for having both. It will be harder to get law jobs because they will assume you are going to leave for medicine and some segment of medicine is suspicious of lawyers so it might actually give you fewer options.

Schools offer the dual degree to make money but their grads for the most part don't get better jobs, they just end up doctors. The health policy path value is dubious. You can get these jobs without both degrees. You certainly don't need this combo to do medmal or be an expert witness.

It's one thing for career changers to end up with both degrees after switching from one path to the other, but to choose to get the combo at the outset smacks of someone trying to put off a career choice, not doing something smart career wise.
 
I applied to law school (and was accepted!) before deciding to go to medical school. I had a strong interest in Civil Rights law (and still do).
I can now confidently say that a physician who becomes a recognized expert in their field can participate in the legal/political system to their heart's content without the second degree.
 
Law2Doc said:
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How about as a path into politics? Useful for establishing an illusion of legitimacy? Most of the congressmen and senators I see today have a law degree or at least an MBA.
 
7331poas said:
How about as a path into politics? Useful for establishing an illusion of legitimacy? Most of the congressmen and senators I see today have a law degree or at least an MBA.
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Why would you get the MD? Most politicians have a JD. A combo for that is a bigger waste than if you were actually going to use one of the degrees.
 
Law2Doc said:
Why would you get the MD? Most politicians have a JD. A combo for that is a bigger waste than if you were actually going to use one of the degrees.
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Because I dont intend to practice medicine till I am 80 and then die?

What in your opinion is the optimal path of medicine --> politics transition around the age of 40-50 yrs old.
 
7331poas said:
Because I dont intend to practice medicine till I am 80 and then die?

What in your opinion is the optimal path of medicine --> politics transition around the age of 40-50 yrs old.
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Then be a doctor and later run for politics. You really don't need the JD. And you certainly don't want it up front in the off chance that some day you might run for politics.
 
I don't see any reason not to do the dual degree with so many people being nontraditionals, it would be a good way to spend that time. I know an MD who went to do JD afterwards and does not practice medicine. Very similar to an MD/Phd I know who went to work at a clinical trials company and isn't technically acting in the traditional sense as a doctor.
 
One of our senators in LA is an MD. He has the crazy eyes.
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There were two doctors running for the past republican nomination, no JD.
 
Petrichor1 said:
I don't see any reason not to do the dual degree with so many people being nontraditionals, it would be a good way to spend that time. I know an MD who went to do JD afterwards and does not practice medicine. Very similar to an MD/Phd I know who went to work at a clinical trials company and isn't technically acting in the traditional sense as a doctor.
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Um no. It's a horrible way to spend that time. It's fine if you became a lawyer and later changed your mind -- I get that (obviously). But to get a law degree you don't know if you will use, just to get on the same timeline as a nontrad makes absolutely no sense. It's really the opposite of getting an MD PhD because you can use an MD PhD in the same career but MD JD is two different careers and you'll need to pick one. (Plus you'll pay for the JD but get a stipend for the PhD).

In general you shouldn't get degrees just to keep doors open -- you should have a concrete plan on how you plan to use the degree. Nobody respects the guy who accumulates two degrees as much as the person who goes far with one. If you can't explain how a degree is necessary for your desired career path, you are really just trying to put off deciding on a career in the most expensive way possible. Pick one and run with it.
 
In order to choose this pathway, you're going to have to think ahead. The best advice I got throughout all of medical school was this: Do the training you need for the job you think you want.

Thus, I would suggest finding real MD/JDs who use both degrees and contacting them through whatever means possible. Then, figure out if you need both the MD and the JD for the job they do. If the answer is yes and that's the job you think you want, I would enroll in an MD/JD program. Otherwise, I would stick to one.
 
tantacles said:
These people actually exist. They're just hard to find.
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I've just never seen one who actually uses both degrees effectively. I see a lot people with dual degrees. Good lawyers do not seek out MD JD's for expert help. They seek people who are experts in their field.
I've seen plenty of JD's who became physicians, though. They practice medicine.
 
gyngyn said:
I've never seen one.
I've seen plenty of JD's who became physicians, though. They practice medicine.
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My understanding is that many of them don't practice medicine but end up working in public policy. The big question is whether you NEED the MD to do this. I don't have a clear answer.
 
tantacles said:
My understanding is that many of them don't practice medicine but end up working in public policy. The big question is whether you NEED the MD to do this. I don't have a clear answer.
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You don't need either degree to do public policy, though.
I would submit that being good at either is preferable. I have met many lawyers who would have made fine physicians and vice versa but I've never met anyone who practiced in both fields well, at the same time.
 
tantacles said:
These people actually exist. They're just hard to find.
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I am pretty deep in this world -- You won't find many, although a few out there may talk a big game. Pretty much all are squarely in one field or the other except in some very minimal way that is often forced rather than of career necessity. Their job and role is rarely one for which the second degree was needed, although they certainly will use it to create some niche. But It's simply rare that any career actually requires this combo of degrees.

And that's kind of my point -- no employer is looking for this combo -- it will always be your burden to pitch it as somehow useful. And nobody is going to pay more for it. And if you are going to use it you are going to work extremely hard to fit that square peg into a round hole.

Better to choose the one career you want rather than try to straddle the fence.
 
gyngyn said:
You don't need either degree to do public policy, though.
I would submit that being good at either is preferable. I have met many lawyers who would have made fine physicians and vice versa but I've never met anyone who practiced in both fields well, at the same time.
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Isnt much of politics the perceived ability to hold office? The question here is whether an MD candidate for office would be better served holding a JD (through legal experience or at least perceived legal experience). That is what I am wondering. I could care less about practicing law. I am talking about holding a certain set of credentials for the public eye.

If you look at a vast major of people holding office, they hold law degrees or have significant legal backgrounds. That is my question. Not who does what on the day to day.

Just to clarify, I am not talking about policy or whatever. I am talking about Congress.
 
7331poas said:
Isnt much of politics the perceived ability to hold office? The question here is whether an MD candidate for office would be better served holding a JD (through legal experience or at least perceived legal experience). That is what I am wondering. I could care less about practicing law. I am talking about holding a certain set of credentials for the public eye.

If you look at a vast major of people holding office, they hold law degrees or have significant legal backgrounds. That is my question. Not who does what on the day to day.

Just to clarify, I am not talking about policy or whatever. I am talking about Congress.
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The answer is no, you are wrong. Few politicians have dual degrees. And fewer still of those doctors who run for public office opt to get a second degree in order to run. Why? Because it adds little value on that path. Having some form of advanced degree looks good. But too many advanced degrees and suddenly the public sees you as not one of them. You don't want to waste time and money on a dual degree in hopes it will give you more credibility later.

But it sounds like you didn't ask your question because you actually want advice so much as find someone to (finally) just tell you what you want to hear. Good luck with that.
 
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No because I was waiting for someone to actually address my point. I could care less about the rational reasons for getting or not getting the degree. Most of politics does not operate that way. Politicians tend to not have beards because it tends to make them be percieved as untrustworthy. Is that a rational thought? Of course not. I was simply wondering if someone was actually going to address my question which was if the general public would view a person with no government, in addition to no legal experience running for office as a negative (the caveat being that the person has practiced medicine and has been active in the public space).

Law2Doc said:
But too many advanced degrees and suddenly the public sees you as not one of them.
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This was the response I was looking for. Not the other reasons you posted. I will probably research into it more. The psychology of things.
 
7331poas said:
No because I was waiting for someone to actually address my point. I could care less about the rational reasons for getting or not getting the degree. Most of politics does not operate that way. Politicians tend to not have beards because it tends to make them be percieved as untrustworthy. Is that a rational thought? Of course not. I was simply wondering if someone was actually going to address my question which was if the general public would view a person with no government, in addition to no legal experience running for office as a negative (the caveat being that the person has practiced medicine and has been active in the public space).



This was the response I was looking for. Not the other reasons you posted. I will probably research into it more. The psychology of things.
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Sorry, then you asked your question poorly for it to take so long to get you an answer. Your question isn't really about dual degree programs and value at all, and should not have been framed as such.
Rather, It's "would getting a JD on top of my MD help me in politics, and why not?" And the answer is no, both because you will waste years getting a degree you cannot possibly use in medicine, and because voters won't be impressed in the way you seem to think, but most importantly because the true value of the JD for politicians isn't having the degree at all but rather in having the career experience of back room negotiations and horse trading. It's a great career path for getting some of these job skills. Lawyers are the grease that makes complicated and contested deals happen. But the letters after your name will matter less.
 
Law2Doc said:
Um no. It's a horrible way to spend that time. It's fine if you became a lawyer and later changed your mind -- I get that (obviously). But to get a law degree you don't know if you will use, just to get on the same timeline as a nontrad makes absolutely no sense. It's really the opposite of getting an MD PhD because you can use an MD PhD in the same career but MD JD is two different careers and you'll need to pick one. (Plus you'll pay for the JD but get a stipend for the PhD).

In general you shouldn't get degrees just to keep doors open -- you should have a concrete plan on how you plan to use the degree. Nobody respects the guy who accumulates two degrees as much as the person who goes far with one. If you can't explain how a degree is necessary for your desired career path, you are really just trying to put off deciding on a career in the most expensive way possible. Pick one and run with it.
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Completely agree with what you said. I was just saying tht if you have a plan to use the degrees in a way where you go your own specific path, that is ok but the examples I provided are of those of real ppl who actually never went on to practice medicine. So op shud probably keep this in mind before taking on a dual degree.
 
Chemistry>Physics said:
Assuming you're able to get into both programs at a school and you somehow knocked the LSAT and MCAT out of the park...

What justifies someone getting a JD/MD? Aside from the snarky comments like "useless to get both" or "pick one". Does anyone have any serious justification of JD/md?

The reason I'm asking is because it's a route I'm interested in because I'm in a peculiar situation. I'm a poli sci/microbio major who volunteers in academic law research at our state school. The institute is amazing and the professors have enlightened me. I leisure read humanities, sociology, poli sci and I've gone through a couple academic law books (not text books but like 300 page books on specific material like sentencing guidelines). At this point I don't want to practice law but medicine I do want to practice. The poli sci major for me is a direct route into politics. I'm really civically engaged, intern in multiple offices, active in student gov. The whole deal. I'm a huge believer in the study of academic material for purely studying it and advancing it for your own growth / contribute to the field. I see myself if I were to apply to JD to be in it just to get more knowledge in it, almost like one does with a degree. Money is somewhat of a non issue, not really though. I'll pay my way through med school but with zero interest loans from my dad.

Is it worth it to get the JD or just stick to medical school? The med degree would hopefully be used for pediatric oncology research position.


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The will and desire to sue the crap out of your colleagues. It would give you a pretty solid background for medmal.
 
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