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As always, eloquently stated mcataz. Took the words right out of my mouth 😉
what kind of doctor gets paid the most and has the least work?
- Thread starter brickmanli
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My main reason for doing medicine isn't money. As I'm laboring through my work, I usually think of how I can help people, and occasionally I am making a difference in other's lives.
However, if I were only concerned about money, medicine would still not be a bad choice. I'm being honest here... only the uninitiated and naive pre-med would think that there are plenty of other easier ways to make lots of money. The error in your guys' thinking probably arise from the fact that you consider the exception rather than the rule. I have a couple friends who were worth > $2 million at around age 25. But you know they were extraordinarily lucky... the rest of my 98 friends not in medicine just have average post-graduate paying jobs, and some are jobless in this economy. Its a total struggle out there when the economy is bad, and I don't think you guys appreciate the rare stability of medicine if you guys think there are many other ways to earn a good living.
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As a favor to the premeds here, i want to let you in on a few things about med school. In years 3 & 4, you will work very very hard in clinics. The majority of my friends unfortunately became jaded & understandably so. Many students just want to match easy jobs that pay well. Why do you think optho, plasti surgery, derm, ENT, radiology are most competitive? Because you don't work very many hours to make $250 K. Am I advocating this approach? No I'm just calling it as I see it.
(As I'm writing this, I am getting worked into the ground. Occasionally I do feel jaded, but I still feel I have my perspective and original reasons for medicine intact.)
However, if I were only concerned about money, medicine would still not be a bad choice. I'm being honest here... only the uninitiated and naive pre-med would think that there are plenty of other easier ways to make lots of money. The error in your guys' thinking probably arise from the fact that you consider the exception rather than the rule. I have a couple friends who were worth > $2 million at around age 25. But you know they were extraordinarily lucky... the rest of my 98 friends not in medicine just have average post-graduate paying jobs, and some are jobless in this economy. Its a total struggle out there when the economy is bad, and I don't think you guys appreciate the rare stability of medicine if you guys think there are many other ways to earn a good living.
_______
As a favor to the premeds here, i want to let you in on a few things about med school. In years 3 & 4, you will work very very hard in clinics. The majority of my friends unfortunately became jaded & understandably so. Many students just want to match easy jobs that pay well. Why do you think optho, plasti surgery, derm, ENT, radiology are most competitive? Because you don't work very many hours to make $250 K. Am I advocating this approach? No I'm just calling it as I see it.
(As I'm writing this, I am getting worked into the ground. Occasionally I do feel jaded, but I still feel I have my perspective and original reasons for medicine intact.)
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i used to, like up to 5 minutes ago, get mad when i heard this question. lets be realistic. you must be passionate about medicine to go into it. afterwards its time to face reality. drs are people, still have to pay for liviing and family, etc. so those who go out and learn about the business side of medicine are the realistic ones...being a dr is not a fantasy, a dream. its a real job. there is nothing wrong with being interested in the pay, in fact it goes right along with knowing about healthcare systems.
with that said, i hate people who choose medicine since its a secure job that pays well. what the hell. there are other jobs out there that pay a lot, maybe as some others pointed out those other jobs are harder. but they still exist. you have to have the passion first.
for those who said that if drs didnt got less than 50k a year that none of us would still be here. well i dont think thats true for everyone. some of us really are passionate. im not denying that many people are just doing this for the money...i hate those people.
so, whoever is denying that this question is a good one is either lieing to us or living a fantasy. you need to be aware, concerned, and realize that being a dr is hard and its another job, just as being a garbage man is a job. nothing wrong with being realistic. those who still think its a bad q, i bet you knew you wanted to help people when you were a zygote, or better yet an egg waiting to be fertilized
with that said, i hate people who choose medicine since its a secure job that pays well. what the hell. there are other jobs out there that pay a lot, maybe as some others pointed out those other jobs are harder. but they still exist. you have to have the passion first.
for those who said that if drs didnt got less than 50k a year that none of us would still be here. well i dont think thats true for everyone. some of us really are passionate. im not denying that many people are just doing this for the money...i hate those people.
so, whoever is denying that this question is a good one is either lieing to us or living a fantasy. you need to be aware, concerned, and realize that being a dr is hard and its another job, just as being a garbage man is a job. nothing wrong with being realistic. those who still think its a bad q, i bet you knew you wanted to help people when you were a zygote, or better yet an egg waiting to be fertilized
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Wow, Pods rank above lawyers, and Psychiatry made the list! 
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And what the hell is so wrong about going into medicine for the money. It's a job like any other.
People have the right to pursue medicine for there reasons. It is none of my business to understand what are the motivating factors of individual A and B in pursuing medicine. Just as long as they are qualified to do the job.
People have the right to pursue medicine for there reasons. It is none of my business to understand what are the motivating factors of individual A and B in pursuing medicine. Just as long as they are qualified to do the job.
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I don't think there's anything wrong with choosing medicine because it's a secure, well-paying job. Those qualities are things that you have to consider when selecting any line of work. As long as my doctor knows his stuff and performs his job, I really don't care what the thinks about his job.
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Why did so many people decide to squat and take a dump into this thread? Did I miss the word "toilet" in the title of this thread? **pinches his nose due to the stench** Of COURSE a premed has to consider pay/job stability when finally deciding on whether he/she should pursue medicine or not. In my opinion, it shouldn't be the sole motivating factor that made you want to pursue medicine...but a premed should definitely take it into consideration. And even if someone does pursue medicine for the money, couldn't that person STILL do just as good of a job as a practicing physician than another person who is going into medicine because he/she truly loves the field? Doesn't the person who went into medicine for the money still have to work just as hard as the next physician? In addition, there is further weeding out that occurs in medical school because many people drop out of medical school every year. I bet many of those dropouts went into medicine for the money and then decided that it simply wasn't worth it to spend every waking minute studying, spend countless shifts doing clinical rotations, getting treated like crap as an intern, getting paid nothing as an intern as you watch your accumulated debt shoot through the roof, etc. No matter WHAT your motivation is in pursuing medicine as a career...just study as hard as you can and do your best when you finally become a practicing physician. In the end, all that matters are the patients you treat and how well you've treated them...not why you decided to go to med school...
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You guys seem to think there are all these other paths to take that will pay more for less work. I see lawyers and MBA's thrown around a lot. It simply is not true. Yes, if you go to Harvard Law and become a corp. law're at some high powered palce, you will make some bucks. Defense attorneys, DA's, govt, etc, don't make much more than I did as an engineer and many make less. The ones who do claw their way to big $$ work crazy hours and society hates them. The avg MBA doesn't do any better unless they can advance in management.
I've worked for large and small companies and can speak from experience. A avg., or even bad, Dr will always make more than an ave lawyer or MBA.
I've worked for large and small companies and can speak from experience. A avg., or even bad, Dr will always make more than an ave lawyer or MBA.
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I think another thing worth considering is the debt many of us will have accumulated by the time we finish residency and actually start raking in the dough...I don't know about all of you, but I'm counting on at least $80K and probably more for med school alone (not counting the $15k or so I will probably have in undergrad debt, and I went to a state school on a full-tuition scholarship!). Most of us will graduate with roughly the equivalent of a house mortgage hanging over our heads...and then we'll still need to buy a house! This is something to consider from a practical point of view in considering medicine as a career. No matter how much I may love it, if medicine paid less than $50k a year and med school was still as costly I simply couldn't afford to pay back my loans and eat once I graduated.
At the NIH, I met a really cool doctor from Denmark, and we spent a lot of time discussing the health care and educational system in her country. Apparently in Denmark, physicians make roughly the same amount as high school teachers, but the government pays for their entire education--tuition,books, living stipend, etc. And med school is still competitive there--apparently many people are willing to be docs for less money, provided they can afford to live and raise a family and still do it. Of course, in Denmark not only do you not have to worry about going into massive debt for your own education, you also don't have to worry about paying for your kid's college tuition, or orthodontia, or your health insurance, or quite a few of the other myriad expenses everybody, rich and poor, has to think about in the US, doctors included.
What a great system. I would absolutely be a doctor for $40-50K/year if I had no educational debt and didn't have to worry about working my ass off to make a decent income so my kids won't have to struggle their way financially through college like I have. But the fact is, we live in a capitalistic, indivdualistic society, and as such even those of us who would like to make decisions based solely on our passions must also be practical and deal with the realities of the world in which we live. I would like to say money never enters the equation, but for me to even contemplate being a doc I have to consider the debt-to-future income ratio to evaluate if I can afford to do it or not. When we live in a place that values teachers and doctors equally and makes each an equally accessible option to those willing to put the work in, we can talk realistically about becoming a doctor regardless of what it pays. Until then, those of us born without a trust fund have to consider educational costs and future income potential when making a career choice.
😍 socialism😍
At the NIH, I met a really cool doctor from Denmark, and we spent a lot of time discussing the health care and educational system in her country. Apparently in Denmark, physicians make roughly the same amount as high school teachers, but the government pays for their entire education--tuition,books, living stipend, etc. And med school is still competitive there--apparently many people are willing to be docs for less money, provided they can afford to live and raise a family and still do it. Of course, in Denmark not only do you not have to worry about going into massive debt for your own education, you also don't have to worry about paying for your kid's college tuition, or orthodontia, or your health insurance, or quite a few of the other myriad expenses everybody, rich and poor, has to think about in the US, doctors included.
What a great system. I would absolutely be a doctor for $40-50K/year if I had no educational debt and didn't have to worry about working my ass off to make a decent income so my kids won't have to struggle their way financially through college like I have. But the fact is, we live in a capitalistic, indivdualistic society, and as such even those of us who would like to make decisions based solely on our passions must also be practical and deal with the realities of the world in which we live. I would like to say money never enters the equation, but for me to even contemplate being a doc I have to consider the debt-to-future income ratio to evaluate if I can afford to do it or not. When we live in a place that values teachers and doctors equally and makes each an equally accessible option to those willing to put the work in, we can talk realistically about becoming a doctor regardless of what it pays. Until then, those of us born without a trust fund have to consider educational costs and future income potential when making a career choice.
😍 socialism😍
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i'll take a large debt burden with an unrestricted salary any day over the Denmark system
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Not me! I would take socialized medicine in a heartbeat - so to speak ... 😀
We're the only country in the world (practically) that makes it citizens beg for decent healthcare. I have friends who work freelance and have a ten year old son. They pay $1250 a month out of their pocket just for their premiums, and that does not include the actual cost of their healthcare visits, which have an ENORMOUS deductible of $1000 plus it only covers like, 80% after that. Cr*p, they say they would just go without health insurance if it wasn't for their son.
So some people do really well, but alot of people don't. I'd like to work in the EU, too !
We're the only country in the world (practically) that makes it citizens beg for decent healthcare. I have friends who work freelance and have a ten year old son. They pay $1250 a month out of their pocket just for their premiums, and that does not include the actual cost of their healthcare visits, which have an ENORMOUS deductible of $1000 plus it only covers like, 80% after that. Cr*p, they say they would just go without health insurance if it wasn't for their son.
So some people do really well, but alot of people don't. I'd like to work in the EU, too !
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The one that doesn't practice medicine anymore 😀 ...Seriously though, going into medicine solely for money is foolish. There are many professions out there that give greater financial rewards for less rigorious work. If you don't love medicine for what it is, get out now while you can.
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Unrestriced salary??? What country do you live in? Ask any doctor and they'll tell you exactly where their salary ceiling is. The only people with unrestriced salaries are the ones who run their medical practices like businesses and pump the patients through. The salaries in the EU and canada are lower than in the US but so is the infant mortality rate and everybody has healthcare. A physician's job is to heal people. Therefore if a system does a better job of healing people but pays doctors less, then it should be no problem to deal with for anybody who has taken the hippocratic oath.
