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what makes a "match list" good?

Discussion in 'General Residency Issues' started by qtpie055, Dec 15, 2005.

  1. qtpie055

    qtpie055 Member
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    Hi! Was wondering what makes a school's residency match "good?" Number of specialties? location? I'm checking out University of Maryland vs. Georgetown's 2005 list. In your opinion, who do you think has the better list?

    University of Maryland 2005 Match List: http://medschool.umaryland.edu/osa/pdf/MATCH05.pdf

    Georgetown University 2005 Match List:

    School of Medicine Class of 2005 Residencies
    Program
    Specialty

    Albany Med Ctr Hosp-NY
    Emergency Medicine

    Albert Einstein Med Ctr-PA
    Emergency Medicine

    Albert Einstein Med Ctr-PA
    Orthopaedic Surgery

    Arrowhead Reg Med Ctr-CA
    Transitional

    B I Deaconess Med Ctr-MA
    Anesthesiology

    Barnes-Jewish Hosp-MO
    Radiology-Diagnostic

    Baylor Coll Med
    Neurology

    Baylor Coll Med-Houston-TX
    Internal Medicine

    Baylor Coll Med-Houston-TX
    Ophthalmology

    Baylor U Med Ctr-Dallas-TX
    Medicine-Preliminary

    Bethesda Naval Medical Center
    Anesthesiology

    Bethesda Naval Medical Center
    Pediatrics

    Boston University Med Ctr
    General Surgery

    Brigham & Womens Hosp-MA
    Anesthesiology

    Brown U Int Med Res-RI
    Internal Medicine

    Brown U Int Med Res-RI
    Medicine-Preliminary

    Case Western/Univ Hosps
    Neurosurgery

    Case Western/Univ Hosps
    Surgery-Preliminary

    Childrens Hosp Boston-MA
    Pediatrics

    Cleveland Clinic Fdn-OH
    Pediatrics

    Einstein/Montefiore Med Ctr-NY
    Anesthesiology

    Emory Univ SOM-GA
    General Surgery

    Emory Univ SOM-GA
    Internal Medicine

    Frankford Hospital
    Medicine-Preliminary

    George Washington Univ-DC
    Emergency Medicine

    George Washington Univ-DC
    Medicine-Preliminary

    George Washington Univ-DC
    Neurosurgery

    George Washington Univ-DC
    Psychiatry

    George Washington Univ-DC
    Surgery-Preliminary

    Georgetown Univ Hosp-DC
    Anesthesiology

    Georgetown Univ Hosp-DC
    General Surgery

    Georgetown Univ Hosp-DC
    Internal Medicine

    Georgetown Univ Hosp-DC
    Medicine-Pediatrics

    Georgetown Univ Hosp-DC
    Medicine-Preliminary

    Georgetown Univ Hosp-DC
    Obstetrics-Gynecology

    Georgetown Univ Hosp-DC
    Orthopaedic Surgery

    Georgetown Univ Hosp-DC
    Pathology

    Georgetown Univ Hosp-DC
    Plastic Surgery

    Georgetown Univ Hosp-DC
    Surgery-Preliminary

    Georgetown Univ Hosp-DC
    Transitional

    Georgetown Univ Hosp-DC
    Urology

    Good Samaritan Reg Med Ctr-AZ
    Family Practice

    Harbor Hospital Ctr-MD
    Transitional

    Harbor-UCLA Med Ctr-CA
    Family Practice

    Harbor-UCLA Med Ctr-CA
    Orthopaedic Surgery

    Harbor-UCLA Med Ctr-CA
    Transitional

    Hershey/Penn State-PA
    Orthopaedic Surgery

    Hosp of the Univ of PA
    Obstetrics-Gynecology

    Jackson Memorial Hosp-FL
    Pediatrics

    Jacksonville Naval Base
    Family Practice

    Johns Hopkins Hosp-MD
    Anesthesiology

    Johns Hopkins Hosp-MD
    Obstetrics-Gynecology

    Johns Hopkins Hosp-MD
    Pediatrics

    Legacy Emanuel/Good Samaritan-OR
    Medicine-Preliminary

    Long Beach Mem Med Ctr-CA
    Family Practice

    Loyola University Med Ctr
    Surgery-Preliminary

    Madigan Air Force Base
    Obstetrics-Gynecology

    Maimonides Med Ctr-NY
    Transitional

    Maricopa Med Ctr-AZ
    Emergency Medicine

    Martin Luther King-Drew MC
    Emergency Medicine

    Massachusetts Gen Hosp
    Internal Medicine

    Massachusetts Gen Hosp
    Pediatrics

    Mayo Graduate SOM-AZ
    Internal Medicine

    Mayo Graduate SOM-FL
    Anesthesiology

    Mayo Graduate SOM-MN
    Internal Medicine

    Mayo Graduate SOM-MN
    Otolaryngology

    Mayo Graduate SOM-MN
    Surgery-Preliminary

    Monmouth Medical Ctr-NJ
    Orthopaedic Surgery

    Morristown Mem Hosp-NJ
    Emergency Medicine

    Morristown Mem Hosp-NJ
    Surgery-Preliminary

    Mt Sinai Hospital-NY
    Internal Medicine

    Mt Sinai Hospital-NY
    Medicine-Preliminary

    Mt Sinai Hospital-NY
    Surgery-Preliminary

    Mt Sinai SOM/Cabrini-NY
    Medicine-Preliminary

    New England Med Ctr-MA
    Internal Medicine

    New England Med Ctr-MA
    Pediatrics

    Northwestern McGaw/NMH/VA-IL
    Anesthesiology

    Northwestern McGaw/NMH/VA-IL
    Internal Medicine

    NYP Hosp-Colum Presby-NY
    Anesthesiology

    NYP Hosp-Colum Presby-NY
    General Surgery

    NYP Hosp-NY Cornell-NY
    Anesthesiology

    NYP Hosp-NY Cornell-NY
    Pathology

    NYP Hosp-NY Cornell-NY
    Surgery-Preliminary

    NYU School Of Medicine
    Anesthesiology

    NYU School Of Medicine
    Internal Medicine

    Oregon Health & Science Univ
    Dermatology

    Oregon Health & Science Univ
    Emergency Medicine

    Oregon Health & Science Univ
    Radiation-Oncology

    Oregon Health & Science Univ
    Surgery-Preliminary

    Providence Hospital-DC
    Family Practice

    Rhode Island Hosp/Brown U
    General Surgery

    Rhode Island Hosp/Brown U
    Surgery-Preliminary

    Rhode Island Hosp/Brown U
    Urology

    Riverside Reg Med Ctr-VA
    Family Practice

    Saint Louis University
    Surgery-Preliminary

    Scheie Eye Inst/Univ Penn
    Ophthalmology

    Scott Air Force Base
    Family Practice

    St Vincent Hosp-Worcester-MA
    Medicine-Preliminary

    St Vincent Hosp-Worcester-MA
    Radiology-Diagnostic

    St Vincents Hospital-NY
    Anesthesiology

    St Vincent's Med Ctr
    Ophthalmology

    Stanford Univ Progs-CA
    Internal Medicine

    Stanford Univ Progs-CA
    Obstetrics-Gynecology

    Stony Brook Teach Hosps-NY
    Internal Medicine

    Stony Brook Teach Hosps-NY
    Orthopaedic Surgery

    SUNY HSC Brooklyn-NY
    Anesthesiology

    SUNY HSC Brooklyn-NY
    Radiology-Diagnostic

    SUNY Upstate Medical University
    Medicine-Preliminary

    SUNY Upstate Medical University
    Orthopaedic Surgery

    Sutter Health-CA
    Family Practice

    Tripler Air Force Base
    Internal Medicine

    Tripler Air Force Base
    Pediatrics

    U Florida HSC-Jacksonville
    Emergency Medicine

    U Iowa Hosp/Clin-Iowa City
    Orthopaedic Surgery

    U Rochester/Strong Mem-NY
    Orthopaedic Surgery

    U Southern California
    Anesthesiology

    U Southern California
    General Surgery

    U Southern California
    Internal Medicine

    U Southern California
    Surgery-Preliminary

    U TX SW Med Sch-Dallas
    General Surgery

    U TX SW Med Sch-Dallas
    Internal Medicine

    U TX SW Med Sch-Dallas
    Orthopaedic Surgery

    U TX SW Med Sch-Dallas
    Plastic Surgery

    U Utah Affil Hospitals
    Internal Medicine

    U Utah Affil Hospitals
    Medicine-Preliminary

    UC Davis Med Ctr-Sac-CA
    General Surgery

    UC Irvine Med Ctr-CA
    Family Practice

    UC Irvine Med Ctr-CA
    General Surgery

    UC Irvine Med Ctr-CA
    Internal Medicine

    UC Irvine Med Ctr-CA
    Pediatrics

    UC San Diego Med Ctr-CA
    Anesthesiology

    UC San Diego Med Ctr-CA
    Pediatrics

    UC San Francisco-CA
    Orthopaedic Surgery

    UC San Francisco-CA
    Plastic Surgery

    UCLA Medical Center-CA
    Anesthesiology

    UCLA Medical Center-CA
    Medicine-Pediatrics

    UCLA Medical Center-CA
    Radiology-Diagnostic

    UMDNJ-New Jersey Med-Newark
    Medicine-Preliminary

    Univ Arizona Affil Hosps
    Orthopaedic Surgery

    Univ Buffalo Grad Med-NY
    Emergency Medicine

    Univ Louisville SOM-KY
    Orthopaedic Surgery

    Univ Mass Med School
    Orthopaedic Surgery

    Univ North Carolina Hosps
    Internal Medicine

    Univ North Carolina Hosps
    Psychiatry

    Univ Of Chicago Hosp-IL
    Anesthesiology

    Univ Of Chicago Hosp-IL
    Emergency Medicine

    Univ Of Chicago Hosp-IL
    Orthopaedic Surgery

    Univ of Connecticut
    Emergency Medicine

    Univ of Connecticut
    Psychiatry

    University of Pennsylvania
    Neurology

    University of Virginia
    General Surgery

    University of Virginia
    Surgery-Preliminary

    University of Virginia
    Urology

    Vanderbilt Univ Med-TN
    Anesthesiology

    Vanderbilt Univ Med-TN
    Obstetrics-Gynecology

    Virginia Commonwealth U Hlth Sys
    General Surgery

    Virginia Commonwealth U Hlth Sys
    Pediatrics

    Walter Reed Army Medical Center
    Urology

    Washington Hosp Ctr-DC
    Medicine-Preliminary

    Washington Hospital Center
    Surgery-Preliminary

    Wilford Hall
    Orthopaedic Surgery

    Wilson Mem Reg/UHS-NY
    Medicine-Preliminary

    Yale-New Haven Hosp-CT
    Orthopaedic Surgery
     
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  3. BKN

    BKN Senior Member
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    I don't understand the question. Could you amplify?
     
  4. qtpie055

    qtpie055 Member
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    i always hear people say "this school has a great match list!" and to attend a school that has a good match list. what makes a match list considered "good?" what are the standards? is it the good locations they place people? the number of specialties? sorry, not sure how to specify further.
     
  5. turtle md

    turtle md Hardware Included
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    If the school matches someone into my residency program, it is a good match list. If not, then not. :D
     
  6. (nicedream)

    (nicedream) Fitter Happier
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    A lot of competitive matches, competitive specialties or programs, makes a match list "good". Those are both good, but IMO Georgetown's looks better.
     
  7. BKN

    BKN Senior Member
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    OK. Now I get it. Schools that get more competitive med students will have more competitive graduates. How you do in matching is probably affected little by what your school attended. For example I am a Baylor grad, fairly competitive school. I don't make any adjustments to my formula for rank based on school. I might have a little bias for my school's graduate in my subconcious, but I try to negate it. There's cream and whey everywhere.

    Do a good job and you'll get a good residency.
     
  8. surg

    10+ Year Member

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    There is no real way to say what a "good" match list is. In some sense, the question is really, do the students get the interviews and residencies that they want? No way to tell from a match list. You could see 20 dermatology match at one school and none at another school, but not realize that 30 people wanted to go into dermatology at the first and none wanted to go derm in the second. Which is better? I think it is debatable, but I'd lean towards the second.

    Things that I would look at in a match list are:
    1) specialty: I know I just said that this isn't as important as people think, but you'd still like to see at least a few annually in the specialties you are interested in. A total lack *may* indicate either poor resources or few role models to aid you in your decision and residency search.
    2) regionalism: most match lists are weighted more heavily towards programs in their region. Do they have a good number of matches in the areas of the country you want to live? This is most important if you are thinking about going to a medical school in an area you aren't interested in staying long term.
    3) mix of type of residency: Ideally, you'd like to see in the larger specialties a good number getting into the type of program you think you'd be interested in (university style programs v. community style programs). This indicates that you will probably have the contacts you need to have success in obtaining the type of residency that you desire. Also keep in mind that what *you* think is stellar, isn't necessarily in every field. Every year I see people hear oohing and ahhing about "Harvard" or other similarly "big medical school name" residencies, which aren't the best in every field.

    Finally, in small fields (e.g. derm, surgical subspecialties, etc.) don't put stock in small differences between places. The numbers fluctuate year to year on what people want. At my "big name" medical school the years I was there I saw interest in general surgery range from as low as 4 to as high as 18 in one year. Nothing changed about the school, just the students aspirations.
     
  9. The White Coat Investor

    The White Coat Investor AKA ActiveDutyMD
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    This is really funny. You're not really deciding on what medical school to attend based on a match list are you?

    Here is how to decide which school to attend:

    Go to the website of school A. Go to the tuition and fees page and add them together and multiply by 4. Then, go to the website of school B and repeat the process. Barring severe extenuating circumstances, if said number of school A < school B, go to school A, and vice versa.

    As far as matching, chances are good you'll go into a field where the residency match is nowhere near as competitive as going to medical school. Even if it is, being the big fish in a small pond is just as good, if not better, than being an average fish in the big pond. Go where you want to live and where you can afford and skip analyzing stuff like this. Trust me. In 5 years no one will give a damn what school you went to, but you'll still owe the cash.
     
  10. rugtrousers

    rugtrousers Senior Member
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    A repost of something I wrote for the premeds:

    "I realized as I apply for residency that you only get limited information from the match list that med schools give you when you apply. Specifically, people only match at the places that they get interviewed. Case scenario:

    -I apply to residency programs A through M
    -Only programs D, G, K and L offer me an interview
    -I rank the programs that interviewed me: G, D, L, K
    -I match at program D.

    Now my med school can say that I matched at one of my top three programs. Maybe program D is even some high-falutin' fancy-schmancy place with a big name, but what if my real first choice had been program B?

    So take those match lists with a grain of salt, y'all. And good luck."
     
  11. (nicedream)

    (nicedream) Fitter Happier
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    I don't know, maybe it's because I come from DO school, but for us at least match lists are a big deal. Some schools don't match anyone at respectable places or in competitive fields, and one has to think it has something to do with bias on the part of the residency programs and not self-selection among the students. Conversely, seeing students matching at certain programs or in certain specialties tells you it is possible for you to do the same and that those programs are DO-friendly, a question that often comes up for DOs. But that's the DO POV.
     
  12. 14022

    14022 Unregistered Abuser
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    When I was going through the medical school application process, match list was important to me but now as a fourth year medical student going through the residency application process, I now know it doesnt mean poop.

    1) Some people grade match lists based on the number of "competitive" specialties their students match into. Competitive being rad onc, rads, derm, ortho, neurosurg, ENT, urology, and ophtho. This year for some reason most of the people in my class have chosen to go into primary care residencies (although many plan on doing fellowship). Therefore we will have like 25 going into peds, 10 into OB, 12 into psych, 15 into family med, etc. Our match list may look "poor" based on the lack of interst in the surgical subspecialties, when in reality out of the 8 people who were AOA their junior year, one is going into psych, one into peds, one into family med, and two into path. These people could have matched into radiology or uruology at top places but they chose not to.

    2) Some people grade match lists based on the quality of places they match. Again, just because people do not match into Harvard and Hopkins doesnt mean they couldn't have. There are several people in my class interviewing at the best places in the country in their fields. However, just because they are "highly ranked" places doesnt mean they want to go there. People often choose residency based on where they think they would be happy, which may or may not be Harvard or Hopkins.

    For these reasons, match list doesnt mean much in my opinion. Choose medical school based on quality of education and where you think you will be happy. Putting so much effort in meticulously browsing through rankings lists and match lists is a waste of time and energy.
     
  13. robotsonic

    robotsonic Senior Member
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    The biggest problem with judging a school by their match list (in my humble opinion) is that as a pre-med you really have no idea which programs are the best/most competitive for each specialty. For example, right now I am applying for surgery residency, so I sort of know what the top programs in surgery are, but for other areas like neurology or ob/gyn, I have no idea. How am I supposed to judge whether people at a certain med school got into great neuro programs if I don't even know what those are? And what others have said is true - having a "big name" school on a match list doesn't mean that those big names are the best in whatever field the person matched.

    I'm having this problem now with looking at match lists for fellowship at residency programs. While I can recognize the "great matches" sometimes (like surg-onc at MSKCC), I often don't know which places are the most competitive.

    But the match list isn't useless. If you see that almost everyone went into primary care, then there is a good chance that that is what the school focuses on and you might have a harder time doing a specialty. Or if you see that no one matched in the field you are interested in for several years straight, that could be a sign that the school doesn't have great teaching or mentors in that area. When looking at fellowship matches, I like to see a variety placements in different specialties. For example, one program I saw is very strong in vascular and matches a lot of people into vascular surgery fellowships, but almost none into certain other areas. This seems suspicious. Then again, maybe the residents went there because they were interested in vascular to begin with. Who knows.
     
  14. CameronFrye

    CameronFrye Senior Member
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    :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

    Is the pre-allo forum full of threads like this? I've never visited that forum, but maybe I should head over there when I want a good laugh.
     

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