What MCAT might give me a chance? 3.01 cGPA, 3.88 over last 90 credits

[Yhorm the Giant]

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[Faha]

If your MCAT is 505 or higher you could receive interviews at some DO schools. Post your score here when it is available.

 

[BWM95]

I dont know if this is a dumb question, but how do you calculate your official AMCAS and AACOMAS gpa??


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[candbgirl]

I dont know if this is a dumb question, but how do you calculate your official AMCAS and AACOMAS gpa??


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There is a grade calculator someplace in here. Maybe Gina search and it will pop up!


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[candbgirl]

OP it's impossible to help you without a MCAT. But your cGPA is too low for any MD school I think. You'd probably be auto screened by most of them. You are also really low for DO but depending on your MCAT you might have a chance at the new DO schools. Is that 3.01 including all of your courses?


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[Yhorm the Giant]

I dont know if this is a dumb question, but how do you calculate your official AMCAS and AACOMAS gpa??


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No dumb questions! I just used a gpa calculator, and then used the two different websites to see which of my courses they would count as science, and just went from there for my science. If you want your cumulative just put in your entire transcript into the spreadsheet.
http://help.unicas.com:8888/aacomas...-history-2/aacomas-course-subjects/index.html
https://aamc-orange.global.ssl.fast...ab328dc/amcas_course_classification_guide.pdf

 

[Yhorm the Giant]

OP it's impossible to help you without a MCAT. But your cGPA is too low for any MD school I think. You'd probably be auto screened by most of them. You are also really low for DO but depending on your MCAT you might have a chance at the new DO schools. Is that 3.01 including all of your courses?


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Thanks for the honest feedback! Yeah exactly, it definitely is impossible to say without the MCAT, which is partly why I'm wondering what I might need to get to give me a chance? Knowing where I need to be could help, so I could do things like pull back hours at work if I'm way behind where I need to be according to practice exams and stuff. Yeah I am thinking so too for MD, I just didn't know if anywhere really, honestly looked at the last 90 credits really hard. I know some schools say they do, but it's hard to overlook such a bad cGPA. And yes that 3.01 is including every class. It was a 3.5 cGPA until the grade replacement change. I'm hoping with DO schools my 3.71 sGPA might give me some love, and I had thought I was at a 3.52 for amcas, but I included a 10 year old math course, dropped to a 3.3. I know it's a pretty uphill battle, but I'm just trying to do my best after the whole grade change policy for DO. I'm just trying to see if I can get in without an SMP or a DIY, but I definitely am willing, it's just a money thing. If only I could erase courses over 10 years old I could have a 3.5....sigh

 

[BWM95]

No dumb questions! I just used a gpa calculator, and then used the two different websites to see which of my courses they would count as science, and just went from there for my science. If you want your cumulative just put in your entire transcript into the spreadsheet.
http://help.unicas.com:8888/aacomas...-history-2/aacomas-course-subjects/index.html
https://aamc-orange.global.ssl.fast...ab328dc/amcas_course_classification_guide.pdf

cool, thank you I appreciate it!

 

[Yhorm the Giant]

Also to clarify, I'd totally love to do a DIY, but I wouldn't be able to go very heavy as I'd be paying out of pocket or private loans. I'll be at 173 credits on financial aid at the end of this semester, and 203 total credit hours...so no more fafsa.

 

[candbgirl]

Yes many schools do reward reinvention. I'm not at all
Sure which ones do but you can probably find out with some research. I would think maybe a 510+ would be helpful but that is easier said than done. You also should work on your ECs. Good luck!


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[shopsteward]

As far as I know, the effects of the recent AACOMAS change haven't been worked through yet - it will be interesting to see whether their figures for acceptances end up different or not.

I would hope that DO schools will take an even more serious look at trend than they have been, rather than excluding on headline figures, otherwise they will end up with classes full of middle of the road candidates rather than the potential superstars who have reinvented themselves.

 

[bears1992]

I had been planning on applying to 10-12 DO and 4-5 MD schools, but I'm starting to think it is a lost cause.
My cGPA is currently 3.01, could be up to a 3.1 at the end of this final semester of mine if I get another 4.0 (likely).
AMCAS BCPM is 3.33, could be a 3.38 end of this semester. I had thought it was a 3.52 until yesterday I remembered to put in a failed math class from 9+ years ago at a CC, took me down pretty hard.
AACOMAS sGPA is 3.70, no math classes counted and they count exercise science usually.
Huge upward trend. Last 90 credit hours is a 3.88. These have been my science prereqs and others like physiology, advanced anatomy and all my upper exercise science classes like exercise physiology, advanced sports nutrition, kinesiology and biomechanics. I have A's bio 1 & 2, Gen chem 1 & 2, physics 1 (probably 2 also), Biochem 1 (probably also 2), and B+'s is Ochem 1 and 2.
Some research, lots of anatomy tutoring hours, about 400 unpaid 200 paid. 2500 hours clinical working with people with mental disabilities. 300 ish service hours, though nothing great.
--- I will be below the only MD school in my state minimum cGPA, so that's not an option.
MCAT June 16th. So schools that aren't in my home state, and where I wouldn't be auto rejected of course.
Even if I got a 508+, would it be worth applying to the newer schools and ones that reward reinvention or just put my money into more DO schools? I've saved up about 3 grand for applications, which hopefully will cover travel if I get any interviews too. Even with my upward trend, would even new MD schools take a look if I nail the MCAT with such low cGPA and sGPA? I completely realize without an MCAT it is really hard to say, but ASSUMING a 508+ MCAT, possible?
I'll be 28 when applying, pretty medically underserved community growing up (Doctors office was open a few days a week....in a literal trailer, a trailer park style trailer). So you can say being in the medical field never really grabbed me as a kid. Hopefully I can find some love for non-trad students. I'm totally fine MD or DO, both have strengths, I just would really like to get in this cycle. My wife has been plenty patient with my reinvention process and I would love if I could make it finally pay off, and I just want to give myself the best chance I've got. That's why I'd like to apply to both, hopefully for some school I'll have something they like.

You are going to be looked at differently for each school and this is why even a 3.8GPA, 520 MCAT applicant still needs to apply broadly. One school may weigh heavily on cGPA which you would be a noncompetitive candidate for and some schools may weigh heavily on grade trend which you would more likely be competitive for. I think in general, if you have a GPA that is "X" standard deviations below the mean matriculate GPA, you need to balance that with an MCAT that is "X" standard deviations above the mean. Based on the 2016 DO school matriculate data, your cGPA is two standard deviation below the mean. With the mean matriculate MCAT score being 503 with a SD of 5.56, you will need a 514 MCAT to make up for your cGPA.

http://www.aacom.org/docs/default-s...riculant-profile-summary-report.pdf?sfvrsn=10

The above does not account for your high sGPA and grade trend so you might only need a 510 MCAT to balance the cGPA. As for MD, the latest survey for AMCAS says the areas of academics with the most weight are (in that order):
sGPA
MCAT
Grade Trend
cGPA

https://www.aamc.org/download/462316/data/2017mcatguide.pdf#page=9

There are a few things that don't apply to you (postbac GPA, MCAT score trend). Three of those areas, you are above average in (assuming you can do a 510+ on the MCAT and we are talking DO schools with your high AAMCAS sGPA and low AMCAS BCPM GPA) with your only below average area being cGPA which carries the least amount of weight of the top areas. The survey in the link is just an average from many many schools so you'll need to apply broadly to find the schools that care more about MCAT, sGPA, and grade trend over cGPA and the schools that won't screen out cGPAs as low as yours. My understanding from reading adcom's post on this site is schools give out II based on two methods.
1) Schools divide up all the apps (that were not screened out) upon their adcoms. The adcoms review the apps and each adcom chooses a certain number out of their pile to award II.
2) Schools use a formula for sending out II. I imagine a typical formula would go something like: A(cGPA)+B(sGPA)+C(MCAT-475)+D(cGPA[last 60 credits])+E(sGPA[last 60 credits])+F(GPA[postbac]). For this type of admissions, you'd want the schools the had a low A coefficient and a high B,C,D,E coefficient. There is no way of knowing which schools these are so you would have to apply to 20+ schools and hope that you hit 5 or 6 that award II this way. I would apply to all the DO schools that you have a shot with (schools that don't have cutoffs that would screen you out AND schools that do not have major IS bias if you are not in state. Use the below link to see how many applicants are given a seat for your given state.

http://www.aacom.org/docs/default-source/data-and-trends/2015_MatCOMState.pdf?sfvrsn=14

If that makes you eligible for 15 DO schools, apply to 10 MD schools considering your state schools and then schools that have low GPA/high MCAT that don't have IS bias. Your goal should be to apply to the 25 schools that will give you the highest chance of getting an II regardless of DO/MD, school reputation or school location as long as the schools are physically located within the 50 states.

 

[Yhorm the Giant]

You are going to be looked at differently for each school and this is why even a 3.8GPA, 520 MCAT applicant still needs to apply broadly. One school may weigh heavily on cGPA which you would be a noncompetitive candidate for and some schools may weigh heavily on grade trend which you would more likely be competitive for. I think in general, if you have a GPA that is "X" standard deviations below the mean matriculate GPA, you need to balance that with an MCAT that is "X" standard deviations above the mean. Based on the 2016 DO school matriculate data, your cGPA is two standard deviation below the mean. With the mean matriculate MCAT score being 503 with a SD of 5.56, you will need a 514 MCAT to make up for your cGPA.

http://www.aacom.org/docs/default-s...riculant-profile-summary-report.pdf?sfvrsn=10

The above does not account for your high sGPA and grade trend so you might only need a 510 MCAT to balance the cGPA. As for MD, the latest survey for AMCAS says the areas of academics with the most weight are (in that order):
sGPA
MCAT
Grade Trend
cGPA

https://www.aamc.org/download/462316/data/2017mcatguide.pdf#page=9

There are a few things that don't apply to you (postbac GPA, MCAT score trend). Three of those areas, you are above average in (assuming you can do a 510+ on the MCAT and we are talking DO schools with your high AAMCAS sGPA and low AMCAS BCPM GPA) with your only below average area being cGPA which carries the least amount of weight of the top areas. The survey in the link is just an average from many many schools so you'll need to apply broadly to find the schools that care more about MCAT, sGPA, and grade trend over cGPA and the schools that won't screen out cGPAs as low as yours. My understanding from reading adcom's post on this site is schools give out II based on two methods.
1) Schools divide up all the apps (that were not screened out) upon their adcoms. The adcoms review the apps and each adcom chooses a certain number out of their pile to award II.
2) Schools use a formula for sending out II. I imagine a typical formula would go something like: A(cGPA)+B(sGPA)+C(MCAT-475)+D(cGPA[last 60 credits])+E(sGPA[last 60 credits])+F(GPA[postbac]). For this type of admissions, you'd want the schools the had a low A coefficient and a high B,C,D,E coefficient. There is no way of knowing which schools these are so you would have to apply to 20+ schools and hope that you hit 5 or 6 that award II this way. I would apply to all the DO schools that you have a shot with (schools that don't have cutoffs that would screen you out AND schools that do not have major IS bias if you are not in state. Use the below link to see how many applicants are given a seat for your given state.

http://www.aacom.org/docs/default-source/data-and-trends/2015_MatCOMState.pdf?sfvrsn=14

If that makes you eligible for 15 DO schools, apply to 10 MD schools considering your state schools and then schools that have low GPA/high MCAT that don't have IS bias. Your goal should be to apply to the 25 schools that will give you the highest chance of getting an II regardless of DO/MD, school reputation or school location as long as the schools are physically located within the 50 states.

Ok bears, do me a favor? Count this post as a service hour haha. This is hands down the nicest thing someone has done for me in a while. That was a detailed, specific response that I definitely needed, and if we end up going to the same school I'm taking you out to dinner. I've studied the crap out of the CIB, MSAR and individual schools websites, but I've never put it together in that way or mathed it up to that degree with the standard deviations and coefficients for different factors in my application. I had never beheld that glorious state matriculation data before. You've given me some good goals and good direction. Thanks so very, very much friend.

 

[bears1992]

Ok bears, do me a favor? Count this post as a service hour haha. This is hands down the nicest thing someone has done for me in a while. That was a detailed, specific response that I definitely needed, and if we end up going to the same school I'm taking you out to dinner. I've studied the crap out of the CIB, MSAR and individual schools websites, but I've never put it together in that way or mathed it up to that degree with the standard deviations and coefficients for different factors in my application. I had never beheld that glorious state matriculation data before. You've given me some good goals and good direction. Thanks so very, very much friend.

My wife and I like Mexican food. lol. Btw, I am not an adcom or even a medical student. I am applying this year with similar stats to yours so this is just the information I have received over my various posts on this site. If you get different advice from an adcom, I would certainly go with their word over mine.

 

[Yhorm the Giant]

My wife and I like Mexican food. lol. Btw, I am not an adcom or even a medical student. I am applying this year with similar stats to yours so this is just the information I have received over my various posts on this site. If you get different advice from an adcom, I would certainly go with their word over mine.

Haha so do me and my wife, so works great. Of course, I've seen your other posts, and yeah we are in similar circumstances. But it's hard to argue with some of that math and those resources especially. I'll let you know if I hear anything different from and ADCOM, but seems like solid advice.

 

[bears1992]

As far as I know, the effects of the recent AACOMAS change haven't been worked through yet - it will be interesting to see whether their figures for acceptances end up different or not.

I would hope that DO schools will take an even more serious look at trend than they have been, rather than excluding on headline figures, otherwise they will end up with classes full of middle of the road candidates rather than the potential superstars who have reinvented themselves.

I think their matriculate stats will stay the same but their COMLEX pass rates will drop. In my opinion, student A with a 4.0 the past 90 credits and an overall gpa of 3.0 is much more valuable than student B with a 3.5 for 90 credits and an overall of 3.4. With grade replacement, student A has the same GPA as student B and would probably get picked over student B because of the upward trend. Without grade replacement, nothing has changed with student As ability to succeed in medical school but now his overall GPA is a 3.0 and adcoms would more likely pick student B over student A.

I think most schools care too much about their matriculate stats. An applicant should really just be accepted based on their ability to succeed in medical school, not how their poor grades from 10 years ago will bring down their matriculate GPA.

 

[Yhorm the Giant]

I think their matriculate stats will stay the same but their COMLEX pass rates will drop. In my opinion, student A with a 4.0 the past 90 credits and an overall gpa of 3.0 is much more valuable than student B with a 3.5 for 90 credits and an overall of 3.4. With grade replacement, student A has the same GPA as student B and would probably get picked over student B because of the upward trend. Without grade replacement, nothing has changed with student As ability to succeed in medical school but now his overall GPA is a 3.0 and adcoms would more likely pick student B over student A.

I think most schools care too much about their matriculate stats. An applicant should really just be accepted based on their ability to succeed in medical school, not how their poor grades from 10 years ago will bring down their matriculate GPA.

I'm pretty sure you are right, which will not be ideal for us or them, but I know they want to keep their competitive looking stats up a lot of the time. I'm hoping there are at least a few places that will not look too heavily at lowering their reputation. I just worry because I don't really have strong volunteer stuff, only a lot of unpaid tutoring for anatomy, which at first I felt was service, but it's realistically leadership, but at the very least it will get me a strong LOR from the anatomy coordinator. We have a really solid relationship and he let me do a laminectomy last Thursday and cut out the brain from a cadaver, trying to keep the dura mater and as many cranial nerves intact as possible. Just me, alone with an autopsy saw. It was really great, but it shows he trusts me and that's worth something.
I think if I could find sometime volunteer that was really worthwhile that I wanted to stick with it would be good. Otherwise hopefully entice schools with a great MCAT. I had a dream last week I got a 520, and I'm pretty sure I cried in my dream lol. It was sad to wake up.
Here's to hoping they still pick good candidates, not only for our matriculation, but for the sake of good medical care. I know I'd rather my doctor pulled his crap together and was amazing in all of his upper division classes, as opposed to did decently in school right from the start, never really excelling but never having a bad semester or year.

 

[bears1992]

I'm pretty sure you are right, which will not be ideal for us or them, but I know they want to keep their competitive looking stats up a lot of the time. I'm hoping there are at least a few places that will not look too heavily at lowering their reputation. I just worry because I don't really have strong volunteer stuff, only a lot of unpaid tutoring for anatomy, which at first I felt was service, but it's realistically leadership, but at the very least it will get me a strong LOR from the anatomy coordinator. We have a really solid relationship and he let me do a laminectomy last Thursday and cut out the brain from a cadaver, trying to keep the dura mater and as many cranial nerves intact as possible. Just me, alone with an autopsy saw. It was really great, but it shows he trusts me and that's worth something.
I think if I could find sometime volunteer that was really worthwhile that I wanted to stick with it would be good. Otherwise hopefully entice schools with a great MCAT. I had a dream last week I got a 520, and I'm pretty sure I cried in my dream lol. It was sad to wake up.
Here's to hoping they still pick good candidates, not only for our matriculation, but for the sake of good medical care. I know I'd rather my doctor pulled his crap together and was amazing in all of his upper division classes, as opposed to did decently in school right from the start, never really excelling but never having a bad semester or year.

Have you signed up for the MCAT yet? If you are going to apply this year, you should take it no later than the middle of May (assuming you are satisfied with your practice scores by that time). I was actually thinking about your post the other day and you might not actually need that high of an MCAT to be competitive. Your sGPA is 1.2 standard deviations ABOVE the mean for matriculates which, according to the MD adcom survey, is more important than your cGPA. I think you'll actually be ok for DO if you can get a 505+ MCAT. You would raise a schools matriculate MCAT and sGPA while only lowering their cGPA. Your upward trend and above average MCAT would give you a low chance of failure.

As for the MCAT, you should take a Next Step FL practice test (Out of all the practice test companies, Next Step seems to be the most representative for the real MCAT). Data from 2016 (which I can't seem to find) says that students that took the Next Step FL 1 test right before their real MCAT scored 5 points higher than their Next Step FL test, meaning if you get a 500 on the Next Step FL1, you will probably get a 505 if you took the MCAT the next day.

One last thing, how many of those 90 credits were done after graduation?

 

[Yhorm the Giant]

Have you signed up for the MCAT yet? If you are going to apply this year, you should take it no later than the middle of May (assuming you are satisfied with your practice scores by that time). I was actually thinking about your post the other day and you might not actually need that high of an MCAT to be competitive. Your sGPA is 1.2 standard deviations ABOVE the mean for matriculates which, according to the MD adcom survey, is more important than your cGPA. I think you'll actually be ok for DO if you can get a 505+ MCAT. You would raise a schools matriculate MCAT and sGPA while only lowering their cGPA. Your upward trend and above average MCAT would give you a low chance of failure.

As for the MCAT, you should take a Next Step FL practice test (Out of all the practice test companies, Next Step seems to be the most representative for the real MCAT). Data from 2016 (which I can't seem to find) says that students that took the Next Step FL 1 test right before their real MCAT scored 5 points higher than their Next Step FL test, meaning if you get a 500 on the Next Step FL1, you will probably get a 505 if you took the MCAT the next day.

One last thing, how many of those 90 credits were done after graduation?

That is kind of the thought process I have when I'm not being too neurotic. Schools like to have a higher sGPA, and I could definitely help them out with that and they would just take a hit on the cGPA. I'm registered for June 16th. I registered the day it opened last year, not realizing at the time with all the grade replacement changes that I would need to apply as early as humanly possible. I've toyed with the idea of moving the date up, but I also am having a rough time getting in meaningful study time this semester with normal classes and all, and I've arranged it that way so I can have 45 days between the end of the school year and the MCAT where I have absolutely nothing else to focus on but the MCAT. Hopefully at the beginning of that 45 day period I'm already relatively prepared, because that's not much time at all. I'll definitely get everything verified with aacomas before I get my score back so I can submit July 18 when I get that back. I actually just registered for Next Step last week. I had bought the AAMC practice tests and tried a couple Princeton review practice tests (demoralizing, but that's kinda their goal I think). I'm really hoping things do work out for DO, because I do have a high sGPA with them. I'm still on the fence with any MD, but I'm planning on like you suggested, about 15 DO and about 10 MD.
So I will finally be graduating this semester. I hadn't been concerned previously about a post-bac gpa or anything with grade replacement, and my tuition was cheaper if I didn't already have a bachelors degree, according to my major advisor, so I was just knocking out prerequisites while taking 1 or 2 major specific classes each semester for the last couple years. I almost wish I had graduated so I had a separate post-bac gpa, but here I sit.

 

[bears1992]

That is kind of the thought process I have when I'm not being too neurotic. Schools like to have a higher sGPA, and I could definitely help them out with that and they would just take a hit on the cGPA. I'm registered for June 16th. I registered the day it opened last year, not realizing at the time with all the grade replacement changes that I would need to apply as early as humanly possible. I've toyed with the idea of moving the date up, but I also am having a rough time getting in meaningful study time this semester with normal classes and all, and I've arranged it that way so I can have 45 days between the end of the school year and the MCAT where I have absolutely nothing else to focus on but the MCAT. Hopefully at the beginning of that 45 day period I'm already relatively prepared, because that's not much time at all. I'll definitely get everything verified with aacomas before I get my score back so I can submit July 18 when I get that back. I actually just registered for Next Step last week. I had bought the AAMC practice tests and tried a couple Princeton review practice tests (demoralizing, but that's kinda their goal I think). I'm really hoping things do work out for DO, because I do have a high sGPA with them. I'm still on the fence with any MD, but I'm planning on like you suggested, about 15 DO and about 10 MD.
So I will finally be graduating this semester. I hadn't been concerned previously about a post-bac gpa or anything with grade replacement, and my tuition was cheaper if I didn't already have a bachelors degree, according to my major advisor, so I was just knocking out prerequisites while taking 1 or 2 major specific classes each semester for the last couple years. I almost wish I had graduated so I had a separate post-bac gpa, but here I sit.

Yeah I was hoping you had already graduated so you would have a 3.0 cGPA along with a 3.8 cGPA postbac. Applying mid July is still early for DO, it's a little late for MD but I think it's worth it to push your MCAT back to mid June if you think it will give you at least 3 extra MCAT points. I'm just a premed but I really think you have a great shot at DO and my money would say you'll get at least 2 II out of your 25 school list. Most schools offer an acceptance to 2/3-1/3 of the students they interview (only about 10% of the students they interview end up matriculating because students often have an acceptance from another school as well). Getting 2 II says (on average) that you will get an acceptance. Below is data that I found from a 2007 post about DO acceptance rates.





First IS/OOS is for those who applied and got interviews. Second IS/OOS is for interviewed then accepted. Last is for applied and were accepted. Enjoy!

School IS OOS IS OOS IS OOS
ATSU-KCOM 42.74% 19.39% 96.00% 69.67% 41.03% 5.72%
CCOM 64.44% 25.96% 74.68% 73.15% 48.12% 7.33%
COMP 39.27% 19.43% 90.31% 90.06% 35.46% 4.98%
DMUCOM 69.38% 21.01% 83.78% 75.43% 58.13% 7.00%
LECOM-PA 63.33% 23.48% 58.59% 38.85% 37.10% 7.03%
MSUCOM 52.46% 6.24% 88.89% 90.80% 46.63% 1.43%
NJCOM 30.83% 8.38% 67.83% 65.88% 20.91% 0.00%
NOVA 54.78% 7.97% 91.09% 79.39% 49.89% 5.41%
NYCOM 55.61% 13.39% 77.93% 71.95% 43.33% 4.25%
OSUCOM 88.38% 18.30% 53.14% 56.10% 46.97% 5.36%
OUCOM 46.05% 2.08% 77.51% 63.41% 35.69% 0.71%
PCOM 55.88% 7.92% 76.70% 68.34% 42.86% 3.21%
PCSOM 94.74% 24.35% 92.59% 79.65% 87.72% 9.48%
TCOM 34.71% 23.86% 28.35% 61.70% 9.84% 6.60%
UNECOM 71.15% 11.23% 89.19% 69.89% 63.46% 3.88%
VCOM 58.62% 15.44% 85.29% 73.28% 50.00% 5.99%
WV 62.60% 22.69% 77.92% 72.89% 48.78% 4.03%
TUCOM-CA no data 20.39% no data 65.41% no data 6.48%
ATSU-Mesa no data no data no data no data no data no data
AZCOM refused refused refused refused refused refused
KCUMB refused refused refused refused refused refused
LECOM-GA no data no data no data no data no data no data
LMU-DCOM no data no data no data no data no data no data
PCOM-GA no data no data no data no data no data no data
TUCOM-NV no data no data no data no data no data no data