What now????

[Knights24]

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A little about myself:

Applied to 10 schools for a Clinical PhD program with emphasis in neuropsychology. Got one interview (my POI graduated the professor I do research with now...suspect that's the reason), and no acceptances.

- 1300 on GRE
- over 3.8 Magna cum laude (graduating this May)
- 2 years research experience as a research assistant (no publications of my own, just helping others with theirs....however may get on authorship on a project that was not my idea, but that I have done all the work on)

What else should I do? Every professor I know at my school can give me no reason, and all though I should have gotten more looks. Every POI I asked for advice said that the competitive applicants that they accepted had post-undergrad experience and knowledge on how to do all tests they prefer, all computer programs they use, publications and experience in their specific field on interest, AND neuroimaging experience (if the program used neuroimaging)....

What is the point in a graduate EDUCATION if they expect applicants to already be proficient in every single field of experience?

I am moving back home, and the only opportunity I have now is to extensively learn the famous neuropsychology batteries (about 7 of them), and then help with research. However, I fear this is not enough. My other ideas were looking into medical schools, and different nursing homes and senior centers (I want to do aging and dementia research).

Any other advice that could help me would be greatly appreciated. Thanks everyone, and congrats if you got into a program this year!

PS: Here is an excerpt from one of my POI's about what else I need (after telling me that my application was very strong):

"In the case of the “ideal” student, it would be one that has a solid experimental psychology background, some neuroscience, good math skills, physics exposure, and some clinical exposure to an aging population. Importantly, firsthand experience using MR technologies, either in data acquisition or in data processing, or in computer programming is highly valued and will set a student apart."

How cannot I not feel I will NEVER get in to a graduate program? Ha ha ha

 

[cara susanna]

How involved were you in the research you helped to conduct? Were you involved at a conceptual and theoretical level as well?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Just a note about learning neuropsychoogy assessments....this may be of limited use for you because you won't have the mentorship and context usually needed to make the time you spend on it worthwhile. Being familiar with various assessments is helpful, but I wouldn't worry as much about "learning" them front and back.

"In the case of the "ideal" student, it would be one that has a solid experimental psychology background, some neuroscience, good math skills, physics exposure, and some clinical exposure to an aging population. Importantly, firsthand experience using MR technologies, either in data acquisition or in data processing, or in computer programming is highly valued and will set a student apart."

Those are very sought after skills if you want to do imaging work related to aging and dementia, though I would guess very few applicants come in with solid knowledge in those areas. I have limited programming knowledge, though it helped me get on at least one project because I knew enough to be an asset.

Neuropsychology research can be very competitive, and depending on the programs/mentors you considered, you may have just come up short because you went up against superior talent.

 

[daydreaming]

I have been looking around for full-time RA positions lately and, I've noticed on a lot of the neuroscience related positions, they basically state that if you know a programming language (the most popular seems to be Matlab) it really sets you apart as an applicant (perhaps the same is true of your graduate programs, that I do not know).

So my suggestion is to look further into that angle to see if it is worthwhile for you, there are many free tutorials online for these sorts of programs and especially Matlab (and at least then you can put 'basic knowledge of Matlab' on your CV). The hard part is getting access to the program itself (though as far as I know there are freeware versions similar to Matlab that may do).

I recently heard this quote which seems, in a way, appropriate:

"When you are asked if you can do a job, tell 'em, 'Certainly I can!' Then get busy and find out how to do it."

~ Theodore Roosevelt

Good luck.

 

[deleted176373]

A little about myself:

Applied to 10 schools for a Clinical PhD program with emphasis in neuropsychology. Got one interview (my POI graduated the professor I do research with now...suspect that's the reason), and no acceptances.

- 1300 on GRE
- over 3.8 Magna cum laude (graduating this May)
- 2 years research experience as a research assistant (no publications of my own, just helping others with theirs....however may get on authorship on a project that was not my idea, but that I have done all the work on)

My first year I applied to 15 programs, 2 interview offers. Was able to only make 1 interview. 0 offers.

1300 GRE, 4.0 GPA (3.91 if you include some junior college classes from the stone age.) 2 years of research, no pubs. Honors Thesis.

Sounds pretty familiar... I applied again the next year, 27 programs, 14 interview offers, attended 8 interviews, 3 acceptances. Got my number 1 program... don't let this get you down. You may need to pick programs that are a better match for your skills however.

What else should I do?

Apply again after addressing your shortcomings... whatever they may be, I needed to work on my personal statement, made a HUGE difference.

Mark

 

[deleted176373]

they basically state that if you know a programming language (the most popular seems to be Matlab) it really sets you apart as an applicant (perhaps the same is true of your graduate programs, that I do not know).

LOL, MATLAB a programming language... come back when you know C and Assembly... those are programming languages!

That's like calling SPSS a programming language, sure you can execute routines but it's hardly a real programming language!

Mark

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

LOL, MATLAB a programming language... come back when you know C and Assembly... those are programming languages!

I half expected you to bust out with Fortran....

One of these years that Javascript class will pay off! Back-end programming will almost always trump front-end work, though it can have a steep learning curve. I know enough of both to be dangerous...mostly to my own web work.

I'd recommend having a strong foundation in SPSS and/or SAS, particularly in regard to the syntax stuff (what daydreamer was talking about). As for programming languages, that will take longer to learn and may or may not be helpful.

 

[daydreaming]

LOL, MATLAB a programming language... come back when you know C and Assembly... those are programming languages!

That's like calling SPSS a programming language, sure you can execute routines but it's hardly a real programming language!

OK, well, I don't know much about Matlab nor programming, you sound as if you are more knowledgeable, but I don't quite see how your point helps the OP (though perhaps this is because I am a neophyte in this coding stuff).

Here are a couple excerpts from some posted positions:

"writing programs in C++ or in MATLAB for the analysis of physiology data"

"experience or coursework in computer programming
(especially programming of stimuli in Matlab, E-Prime, or similar package)"

I still maintain that learning something like Matlab might make the OP more competitive in the field (s)he wishes to enter (whether you want to call it a programming language or wizardry is another discussion that I am not qualified to engage in).

 

[YoungestOld]

I half expected you to bust out with Fortran....

One of these years that Javascript class will pay off! Back-end programming will almost always trump front-end work, though it can have a steep learning curve. I know enough of both to be dangerous...mostly to my own web work.

I'd recommend having a strong foundation in SPSS and/or SAS, particularly in regard to the syntax stuff (what daydreamer was talking about). As for programming languages, that will take longer to learn and may or may not be helpful.

+1 In my experience in two labs, you can go really far with some basic programming understanding, often because 90% of the people you work with have no idea how those shiny stat programs they use really work.😀

As many complaints as I have against SPSS, it does have some very transparent and easy to follow syntax. To the point where you can run a stat test in the GUI and then immediately alter/copy/paste the 4-10 lines it spits out.

 

[deleted176373]

I half expected you to bust out with Fortran....

One of these years that Javascript class will pay off! Back-end programming will almost always trump front-end work, though it can have a steep learning curve. I know enough of both to be dangerous...mostly to my own web work.

I'd recommend having a strong foundation in SPSS and/or SAS, particularly in regard to the syntax stuff (what daydreamer was talking about). As for programming languages, that will take longer to learn and may or may not be helpful.

Don't laugh, I know Fortran... I learned it after Basic....

OK, well, I don't know much about Matlab nor programming, you sound as if you are more knowledgeable, but I don't quite see how your point helps the OP (though perhaps this is because I am a neophyte in this coding stuff).

I was just commenting... I'm not always helpful, sometimes I just like to read my own typing. I hope I know a little something about programming, as I used to do it for a living. I just hope that I can be a better psychologist than computer engineer.

Mark

 

[psychem]

i posted this elsewhere, but here it is again:

I'm a multiple time applicant, and thought i was done, until i realized there was nothing else i wanted to do. so i applied yet again, and finally got an offer.
I had a 3.76 gpa from a respected school, 1490 gre scores, several publications (as first or second author), excellent recommendations, and years of research experience at prestigious insititutions...and took me years to get in.

I'm convinced the process is a complete crapshoot. Moral of the story? If you really want this, try and try again!

 

[RejectClinical]

I've come to the conclusion that when a very qualified applicant doesn't gain acceptance to a PhD program...that there is a little bit of luck involved and that it could possibly be the SOP???

I dramatically altered my SOP the second time around and the results were significantly better than last year.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I'd simply recommend attempting to address as many of your "shortcomings" in the coming year as possible (e.g., attempting to improve your neuropsych-focused research experience), and then applying again in August. It can also help quite a bit if you begin contacting potential POI's during the summer to inform them of your interest, inquire if they're accepting students, etc. Additionally, aim for applying to 15-20 programs rather than 10. I know it gets expensive, but it definitely improves your chances.

My first go-round, I applied to perhaps 7 programs, and received 0 acceptances. Second year, I upped the number to 15 applications, received a few interview invites, and ended up at my first choice. Take heart--I had absolutely no research experience (or experience in general) in neuropsych, yet here I am. It might not be the norm, but it's definitely possible; I'm proof of that. A HUGE proportion of the variance (hah) really is captured by your "fit" with the program in general, and with your potential supervisor specifically.

 

[iheartkraepelin]

I have been an RA in a clinical setting for a few years and I would not have gotten into graduate school without the skills, connections and clinical experiences I have gained working as a full-time research assistant.

For me getting a MA seemed silly. Why pay to gain research experience when I can get paid to gain similar experiences? The hospital I work for also reimburses for tuition expenses....so I could have even take additional classes for free.

I would suggest contacting PIs that you think you would eventually want to work with in graduate school to see if they have any open positions for RAs. In addition apply to RA positions at major teaching hospitals through the HR websites (i.e. Mass General, Johns Hopkins, Rush, BIDMC, any VA-hospital). I probably applied to 100s of jobs and sent out just as many emails with cover letter and CV. Don't get discouraged it takes just as much work finding and obtaining one of these positions as it does applying to grad school. It really pays off in the end though! 😀

Do it ASAP...they are probably filling these spots as their current staff members leave for graduate school.

 

[BuckeyeAlum]

iheartkraepelin was spot-on. I have similar research experience, and from what I've seen, many of my coworkers (and myself included) have fared well when it comes to getting into grad school.

Check out that SOP! The fact that you only had one interview makes me think that it could have been your statement that threw you under the bus. I had comparable (if not higher) credentials when I first applied and only got one interview b/c my statement wasn't very good.

Also - relax. Hope is not lost - many professors have a bias towards people who have taken some time after undergrad to pursue their academic/career interests. Another year or two will probably help you dramatically. 🙂 Chin up!

 

[deleted176373]

I agree, the only change I made was my SOP in my apps... HUGE DIFFERENCE.

 

[Knights24]

THANK you all so much for the advice. I think that it was my SOP, because it was kind of ambiguous. When I was applying, I was not positive yet what area I wanted to research in.

What do you all recommend for a good SOP? Info to include? Writing style?

Also, should I talk the Psych GRE. I just read a study that said the Psych GRE was most predictive of grad school success, and my professor said it was a good idea. All my programs just say "highly recommended" but no required.

Thanks again.

 

[PsychPhDone]

A little about myself:

Applied to 10 schools for a Clinical PhD program with emphasis in neuropsychology. Got one interview (my POI graduated the professor I do research with now...suspect that's the reason), and no acceptances.

- 1300 on GRE
- over 3.8 Magna cum laude (graduating this May)
- 2 years research experience as a research assistant (no publications of my own, just helping others with theirs....however may get on authorship on a project that was not my idea, but that I have done all the work on)

Here are my recommendations, some echoing what's been said already. Take them with a grain of salt since they are just...opinions. 🙂

-Apply to more schools. Not sure how competitive your list was, but 10 is on the low side for the extremely competitive programs.

-Retake the GRE if you can. I applied the first time with a similar score and had a similar outcome to you. Raising it even 50 points could give you a nudge in some places.

-Take the psych GRE. I'd report the score only if it's 700+.

-Get a 2 year full-time RA job. This was my golden ticket and is the norm for preparation in my program and many others. It will help get you publications, presentations, software experience, and connections. Connections are key. It also shows that you can adapt to new situations.

-Attend conferences where your POIs may be and speak to their students to get the inside scoop. Remember, you are feeling these programs out, too. Chat with the POI if possible.

 

[daydreaming]

Attend conferences where your POIs may be and speak to their students to get the inside scoop. Remember, you are feeling these programs out, too. Chat with the POI if possible.

I think this is a good idea as well. I plan to attend a conference this summer and, one of the professors I want to work with knows this (and will be there, I think) and in my opinion it makes you look committed to your field. Either that or like a complete stalker