What number on your rank list did you match.

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What number on your rank list did you match at?

  • 1st choice

    Votes: 63 50.4%
  • 2nd choice

    Votes: 20 16.0%
  • 3rd choice

    Votes: 8 6.4%
  • 4th choice

    Votes: 2 1.6%
  • 5th choice

    Votes: 6 4.8%
  • 6th choice

    Votes: 7 5.6%
  • 7th choice

    Votes: 5 4.0%
  • 8th or greater

    Votes: 14 11.2%

  • Total voters
    125

SpecialmED

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Just out of curiousity, how far down your rank list/what position on your rank list did you have to go to on match day?

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There is some data out there when I matched in 2006.. Something like 70% got their 1st choice. I cant remember the exact data but then 85% were top 3.
 
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Can anyone give some insight on why they or someone they knew matched at there 4th or greater choice? Were the top schools on your list extremely competitive?
 
Can anyone give some insight on why they or someone they knew matched at there 4th or greater choice? Were the top schools on your list extremely competitive?

I matched at my 5th spot (out of twelve) a number of years ago. The top spots on my rank list were more competitive, but I don't think that was the main issue.

In hindsight, now having been involved with resident admissions at two locations, it is clear to me why I didn't do as well: I didn't play the game. Yes, you want good scores, good grades, good letters, etc. But you have to, unlike me, understand the politics and the game.

I attended a med school that had no EM residency, and I didn't have great guidance on how it all worked. SLORs are key. If you don't have them, it will be questioned. If you have weird alternative letters, it will be questioned. (I had a psych letter because I did really well on that rotation, and thought it would demonstrate uniqueness; it was probably questioned.)

If you do an away rotation, and don't get a letter, it will be questioned. I did an away at a prestigious academic center, not to get a letter or because I wanted to attend there (wasn't interested geographically), but because I thought it would be good educationally. Unfortunately, I stupidly did not hide these facts. I did end up learning a ton there and loving the rotation, but a got a lukewarm eval because the PD was put off for the reasons above.

You will be judged on your apparent intentions. Obviously you should not lie, but if you demonstrate enthusiasm and a desire to be in academics, you will be more heavily favored (especially at academic heavy programs). Despite most of us going to the community, the residencies are run by academics, and they want people to go into academics.

It's interesting to be involved in discussions about applicants, and then seeing their performance as residents. If there's a correlation between match list rank and resident ability, I think it's weak at best. I think it's incredibly hard to sense how somebody will perform as a resident, but of course we do the best we can to figure that out. I'm reminded a bit by that scene early in Moneyball, when all the scouts are discussing the intangibles about the players, and who will succeed and who won't -- in reality it probably doesn't matter very much.

All that said, I'm very happy about where I went to residency, and felt my training was superb. It's my humble opinion that I excelled despite whatever reservations other programs had with my application. Emergency medicine is awesome, and in the end, I'm simply grateful I matched at all and get to do this job.
 
I matched at my 5th spot (out of twelve) a number of years ago. The top spots on my rank list were more competitive, but I don't think that was the main issue.

In hindsight, now having been involved with resident admissions at two locations, it is clear to me why I didn't do as well: I didn't play the game. Yes, you want good scores, good grades, good letters, etc. But you have to, unlike me, understand the politics and the game.

I attended a med school that had no EM residency, and I didn't have great guidance on how it all worked. SLORs are key. If you don't have them, it will be questioned. If you have weird alternative letters, it will be questioned. (I had a psych letter because I did really well on that rotation, and thought it would demonstrate uniqueness; it was probably questioned.)

If you do an away rotation, and don't get a letter, it will be questioned. I did an away at a prestigious academic center, not to get a letter or because I wanted to attend there (wasn't interested geographically), but because I thought it would be good educationally. Unfortunately, I stupidly did not hide these facts. I did end up learning a ton there and loving the rotation, but a got a lukewarm eval because the PD was put off for the reasons above.

You will be judged on your apparent intentions. Obviously you should not lie, but if you demonstrate enthusiasm and a desire to be in academics, you will be more heavily favored (especially at academic heavy programs). Despite most of us going to the community, the residencies are run by academics, and they want people to go into academics.

It's interesting to be involved in discussions about applicants, and then seeing their performance as residents. If there's a correlation between match list rank and resident ability, I think it's weak at best. I think it's incredibly hard to sense how somebody will perform as a resident, but of course we do the best we can to figure that out. I'm reminded a bit by that scene early in Moneyball, when all the scouts are discussing the intangibles about the players, and who will succeed and who won't -- in reality it probably doesn't matter very much.

All that said, I'm very happy about where I went to residency, and felt my training was superb. It's my humble opinion that I excelled despite whatever reservations other programs had with my application. Emergency medicine is awesome, and in the end, I'm simply grateful I matched at all and get to do this job.

Great post.

Thanks for contributing. I love the money ball reference!
 
I matched at my 5th spot (out of twelve) a number of years ago. The top spots on my rank list were more competitive, but I don't think that was the main issue.

In hindsight, now having been involved with resident admissions at two locations, it is clear to me why I didn't do as well: I didn't play the game. Yes, you want good scores, good grades, good letters, etc. But you have to, unlike me, understand the politics and the game.

I attended a med school that had no EM residency, and I didn't have great guidance on how it all worked. SLORs are key. If you don't have them, it will be questioned. If you have weird alternative letters, it will be questioned. (I had a psych letter because I did really well on that rotation, and thought it would demonstrate uniqueness; it was probably questioned.)

If you do an away rotation, and don't get a letter, it will be questioned. I did an away at a prestigious academic center, not to get a letter or because I wanted to attend there (wasn't interested geographically), but because I thought it would be good educationally. Unfortunately, I stupidly did not hide these facts. I did end up learning a ton there and loving the rotation, but a got a lukewarm eval because the PD was put off for the reasons above.

You will be judged on your apparent intentions. Obviously you should not lie, but if you demonstrate enthusiasm and a desire to be in academics, you will be more heavily favored (especially at academic heavy programs). Despite most of us going to the community, the residencies are run by academics, and they want people to go into academics.

It's interesting to be involved in discussions about applicants, and then seeing their performance as residents. If there's a correlation between match list rank and resident ability, I think it's weak at best. I think it's incredibly hard to sense how somebody will perform as a resident, but of course we do the best we can to figure that out. I'm reminded a bit by that scene early in Moneyball, when all the scouts are discussing the intangibles about the players, and who will succeed and who won't -- in reality it probably doesn't matter very much.

All that said, I'm very happy about where I went to residency, and felt my training was superb. It's my humble opinion that I excelled despite whatever reservations other programs had with my application. Emergency medicine is awesome, and in the end, I'm simply grateful I matched at all and get to do this job.

Bougiecric, one more question. What things are discussed about applicants? What things tend to move someone up or down the list post-interview?

Thanks!
 
I matched at my 5th spot (out of twelve) a number of years ago. The top spots on my rank list were more competitive, but I don't think that was the main issue.

In hindsight, now having been involved with resident admissions at two locations, it is clear to me why I didn't do as well: I didn't play the game. Yes, you want good scores, good grades, good letters, etc. But you have to, unlike me, understand the politics and the game.

I attended a med school that had no EM residency, and I didn't have great guidance on how it all worked. SLORs are key. If you don't have them, it will be questioned. If you have weird alternative letters, it will be questioned. (I had a psych letter because I did really well on that rotation, and thought it would demonstrate uniqueness; it was probably questioned.)

If you do an away rotation, and don't get a letter, it will be questioned. I did an away at a prestigious academic center, not to get a letter or because I wanted to attend there (wasn't interested geographically), but because I thought it would be good educationally. Unfortunately, I stupidly did not hide these facts. I did end up learning a ton there and loving the rotation, but a got a lukewarm eval because the PD was put off for the reasons above.

You will be judged on your apparent intentions. Obviously you should not lie, but if you demonstrate enthusiasm and a desire to be in academics, you will be more heavily favored (especially at academic heavy programs). Despite most of us going to the community, the residencies are run by academics, and they want people to go into academics.

It's interesting to be involved in discussions about applicants, and then seeing their performance as residents. If there's a correlation between match list rank and resident ability, I think it's weak at best. I think it's incredibly hard to sense how somebody will perform as a resident, but of course we do the best we can to figure that out. I'm reminded a bit by that scene early in Moneyball, when all the scouts are discussing the intangibles about the players, and who will succeed and who won't -- in reality it probably doesn't matter very much.

All that said, I'm very happy about where I went to residency, and felt my training was superb. It's my humble opinion that I excelled despite whatever reservations other programs had with my application. Emergency medicine is awesome, and in the end, I'm simply grateful I matched at all and get to do this job.

I appreciate the insight, and that was a great scene in Moneyball.

I'd be interested in anything else you've got to say about the process from an insider's perspective...
 
I appreciate the insight, and that was a great scene in Moneyball.

I'd be interested in anything else you've got to say about the process from an insider's perspective...

Bougiecric, one more question. What things are discussed about applicants? What things tend to move someone up or down the list post-interview?

Thanks!

I'm not going to give too much info about being on the other side and having participated in interviews and the ranking process that happens after the interview.

What I know is that programs do not like to take risks on an applicant. If there is a red flag or two.... you're pretty much low or out of the rank list.

A red flag would be something similar to:
- Gap years that are unexplained
- Failing a rotation (even if it's not EM)
- NOT getting an SLOR from an EM rotation (big red flag)

Those red flags will negate even a 240-260 board score on Step 1. Be very careful.
 
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I matched at my 5th spot (out of twelve) a number of years ago. The top spots on my rank list were more competitive, but I don't think that was the main issue.

In hindsight, now having been involved with resident admissions at two locations, it is clear to me why I didn't do as well: I didn't play the game. Yes, you want good scores, good grades, good letters, etc. But you have to, unlike me, understand the politics and the game.

I attended a med school that had no EM residency, and I didn't have great guidance on how it all worked. SLORs are key. If you don't have them, it will be questioned. If you have weird alternative letters, it will be questioned. (I had a psych letter because I did really well on that rotation, and thought it would demonstrate uniqueness; it was probably questioned.)

If you do an away rotation, and don't get a letter, it will be questioned. I did an away at a prestigious academic center, not to get a letter or because I wanted to attend there (wasn't interested geographically), but because I thought it would be good educationally. Unfortunately, I stupidly did not hide these facts. I did end up learning a ton there and loving the rotation, but a got a lukewarm eval because the PD was put off for the reasons above.

You will be judged on your apparent intentions. Obviously you should not lie, but if you demonstrate enthusiasm and a desire to be in academics, you will be more heavily favored (especially at academic heavy programs). Despite most of us going to the community, the residencies are run by academics, and they want people to go into academics.

It's interesting to be involved in discussions about applicants, and then seeing their performance as residents. If there's a correlation between match list rank and resident ability, I think it's weak at best. I think it's incredibly hard to sense how somebody will perform as a resident, but of course we do the best we can to figure that out. I'm reminded a bit by that scene early in Moneyball, when all the scouts are discussing the intangibles about the players, and who will succeed and who won't -- in reality it probably doesn't matter very much.

All that said, I'm very happy about where I went to residency, and felt my training was superb. It's my humble opinion that I excelled despite whatever reservations other programs had with my application. Emergency medicine is awesome, and in the end, I'm simply grateful I matched at all and get to do this job.


Gah. I have a psych LOR this year for that same reason. Damn.
 
I am sure you are fine, especially if the rest of your LORS are EM SLORs.
 
I'm not going to give too much info about being on the other side and having participated in interviews and the ranking process that happens after the interview.

What I know is that programs do not like to take risks on an applicant. If there is a red flag or two.... you're pretty much low or out of the rank list.

A red flag would be something similar to:
- Gap years that are unexplained
- Failing a rotation (even if it's not EM)
- NOT getting an SLOR from an EM rotation (big red flag)

Those red flags will negate even a 240-260 board score on Step 1. Be very careful.


Hey Pinipig523

I go to a DO school and rotated at one of my home program's sites for EM. I asked for a SLOR and was told that I would be getting a SLOR from the site coordinator who is an MD. Low and behold, once the letter came in it was not a SLOR. They supposedly never write SLORs. I do have two other EM rotations at programs and got SLORs. Plus have an OB letter that was good. Since one of my EM letters is not a SLOR is that a big red flag, or did you mean if you can get a SLOR and you didn't you are in trouble? Also I told interviewers where I rotated at and they had the letters in their hand during my interviews, but I have not really explained why I don't have a SLOR from my home rotation because I have not been asked (even at your program). Should I send an email out to places explaining that? I don't want to look paranoid, but a big red flag can't be a good thing. Thanks
 
Hey Pinipig523

I go to a DO school and rotated at one of my home program's sites for EM. I asked for a SLOR and was told that I would be getting a SLOR from the site coordinator who is an MD. Low and behold, once the letter came in it was not a SLOR. They supposedly never write SLORs. I do have two other EM rotations at programs and got SLORs. Plus have an OB letter that was good. Since one of my EM letters is not a SLOR is that a big red flag, or did you mean if you can get a SLOR and you didn't you are in trouble? Also I told interviewers where I rotated at and they had the letters in their hand during my interviews, but I have not really explained why I don't have a SLOR from my home rotation because I have not been asked (even at your program). Should I send an email out to places explaining that? I don't want to look paranoid, but a big red flag can't be a good thing. Thanks

Usually your rank order has been (pretty much) determined prior to the end of your interview day. I personally do not know how much an email will affect your rank order.

I will say that LOR are not looked at the same as an SLOR. But you should've gotten an SLOR out of every rotation in EM. Lacking one *may* be a minor issue but if you explained it during the interviews, it's likely not a red flag. Maybe it's because you rotated at a DO program and it is not standard for them. You have to take it at face value and assume that DO programs don't all participate in SLOR.

If your LOR was great, I don't think anyone would care if it wasn't in SLOR format. It just won't be as convincing as an SLOR that says "this candidate is in the top 10% of all who rotate here this year".

A red flag would be if you didn't have a LOR at all.
 
This is all very interesting stuff to read!

I am the wife of a med student that just finished up his EM residency interviews. I am super involved, so I read all of these types of threads and obsess over them.

I am curious if anyone has heard much regarding how competitive this year has been? My husband actually heard from his home program's PD that they had LESS applicants this year than they did last year. I know that last year was an extremely competitive year, so this would be really good news. But I'm wondering if it is the case everywhere or not?? I'm assuming that the more competitive it is, the higher you might have to go on your rank list!
 
Usually your rank order has been (pretty much) determined prior to the end of your interview day. I personally do not know how much an email will affect your rank order.

I will say that LOR are not looked at the same as an SLOR. But you should've gotten an SLOR out of every rotation in EM. Lacking one *may* be a minor issue but if you explained it during the interviews, it's likely not a red flag. Maybe it's because you rotated at a DO program and it is not standard for them. You have to take it at face value and assume that DO programs don't all participate in SLOR.

If your LOR was great, I don't think anyone would care if it wasn't in SLOR format. It just won't be as convincing as an SLOR that says "this candidate is in the top 10% of all who rotate here this year".

A red flag would be if you didn't have a LOR at all.

Hey pinipig, would you please comment on my situation?

I did an away EM rotation in sept, but my letter writer did not get my SLOR in until end of Nov. By then I already submitted max # of letters allowed (2 LORs and 2 SLORs from my previous away rotations.) I had 20 interview offers and attended 15 without the SLOR from my last rotation. From what I have been told, the 2 SLORs I submitted were excellent. A few places I interviewed at asked me about the SLOR from my last rotation and I explained to them that the attending took awhile to submit it so I did not include it in my application because I wanted my application to be completed early.

Let's say the SLOR from my last away was mediocre to above avg. At this point would it be worthwhile to ask the letter writer to email the SLOR directly to the programs I interviewed at? Would it affect my position on rank list at all?
 
Since one of my EM letters is not a SLOR is that a big red flag, or did you mean if you can get a SLOR and you didn't you are in trouble? Also I told interviewers where I rotated at and they had the letters in their hand during my interviews, but I have not really explained why I don't have a SLOR from my home rotation because I have not been asked (even at your program). Should I send an email out to places explaining that? I don't want to look paranoid, but a big red flag can't be a good thing. Thanks

I wouldn't want to give you bad info, since I am merely an applicant, but I am a non-traditional background guy with one EM LOR, and some other LORs, but no SLOR. I have been told by several programs that my EM LOR was excellent, and (like you) they didn't seem to care about/mention the lack of an SLOR. I certainly got the impression that if you made it that far, they were over it.

I did get enough interviews (I think). On the other hand, I may well have already been screened out if there were some places that didn't like my lack of SLORs since I certainly didn't get in everywhere I applied.

Soooo...it probably depends on the program and the rest of your app.

Good luck!
 
I will say that LOR are not looked at the same as an SLOR. But you should've gotten an SLOR out of every rotation in EM. Lacking one *may* be a minor issue but if you explained it during the interviews, it's likely not a red flag. Maybe it's because you rotated at a DO program and it is not standard for them. You have to take it at face value and assume that DO programs don't all participate in SLOR.

if i'm not mistaken, SLORs can only be written by EM attendings/faculty at a hospital that has a residency program, right? so if my home institution's EM site does not have a residency program, and i just get a regular LOR from an EM attending there, is that okay? (i do plan on doing rotations at sites with residency programs, and getting SLORs from them)
 
If your home institution doesn't have a program, you pretty much have to do 2 aways. That's what I did. It is rare for a program to require only 1 SLOR, but they do exist.
 
.
 
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Please forgive my ignorance, but what's an SLOR? I see the term thrown around but can't seem to find a definition.
Standardized Letter of Recommendation. They're pretty routine among EM LOR these days.
 
I matched at my 5th spot (out of twelve) a number of years ago. The top spots on my rank list were more competitive, but I don't think that was the main issue.

In hindsight, now having been involved with resident admissions at two locations, it is clear to me why I didn't do as well: I didn't play the game. Yes, you want good scores, good grades, good letters, etc. But you have to, unlike me, understand the politics and the game.

I attended a med school that had no EM residency, and I didn't have great guidance on how it all worked. SLORs are key. If you don't have them, it will be questioned. If you have weird alternative letters, it will be questioned. (I had a psych letter because I did really well on that rotation, and thought it would demonstrate uniqueness; it was probably questioned.)

If you do an away rotation, and don't get a letter, it will be questioned. I did an away at a prestigious academic center, not to get a letter or because I wanted to attend there (wasn't interested geographically), but because I thought it would be good educationally. Unfortunately, I stupidly did not hide these facts. I did end up learning a ton there and loving the rotation, but a got a lukewarm eval because the PD was put off for the reasons above.

You will be judged on your apparent intentions. Obviously you should not lie, but if you demonstrate enthusiasm and a desire to be in academics, you will be more heavily favored (especially at academic heavy programs). Despite most of us going to the community, the residencies are run by academics, and they want people to go into academics.

It's interesting to be involved in discussions about applicants, and then seeing their performance as residents. If there's a correlation between match list rank and resident ability, I think it's weak at best. I think it's incredibly hard to sense how somebody will perform as a resident, but of course we do the best we can to figure that out. I'm reminded a bit by that scene early in Moneyball, when all the scouts are discussing the intangibles about the players, and who will succeed and who won't -- in reality it probably doesn't matter very much.

All that said, I'm very happy about where I went to residency, and felt my training was superb. It's my humble opinion that I excelled despite whatever reservations other programs had with my application. Emergency medicine is awesome, and in the end, I'm simply grateful I matched at all and get to do this job.


I echo what you said above. I was at a spot without an EM residency, did an away at a place I wanted to go and ended up at... I did a late rotation there and just did not get a SLOR because I had 'plenty of LORs' and figure why bother? I had more than ONE interviewer ask me about it and tell me it is very strange that I rotated at a place, listed in my application, but no SLOR...even though I did stellar, had an honors score, and matched there. One place essentially told me they were surprised I was being interviewed at their site and that someone had probably overlooked that aspect.

Needless to say, I am back where I went to medical school..still no EM program, but I try to do my best to educate our students on how to get into EM residency....
 
nvm ^_^
 
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SLORs are definitely the way to go. Any EM physician anywhere can fill one out if they know where to find it or if you give it to them as your preferred form. The SLOR asks how many letter they wrote last year, so that tells programs about how experienced people are with teaching students/writing evals. Someone above gave a good link...use the SLOR

If you do an EM rotation and we don't see a SLOR, that does raise questions: are you hiding something? Did you do it late? Is it not included for a reason. So try to get SLOR's from all your EM rotations.

Someone commented about people at residency programs wanting to hear about academic interest. I work at a community academic center, and we want honesty. We know 90% or so of people in all programs combined work in the community. I don't expect everyone to want academics. I want to hear you honestly tell me where you see yourself. The goal of all residencies is first and foremost to produce competent, strong EM clinicians. Granted, if you go somewhere where the mission statement says they want to make leaders in academic EM, then you may be barking up the wrong tree if you want to work in the middle of Wyoming. Try to read each programs mission statement and it will give you an idea about how much they want academics.

As to the original post, residency is so much about matching personality to program. Do not rank a place if you would not like to be there. The RRC makes sure that all accredited residencies will train clinically competent EP's. Residency is all about what you put into it. At our program, people have nagged out ridiculous amounts of research, and others have done a case report and moved to the middle of nowhere and work in small single coverage ER's. You get out of residency what you put into it. Hardworking, motivated residents can get a great education anywhere, just make sure you are ranking programs where you truly feel you'd be happy.

Good luck with the match this year to all those matching.
 
Last year was kind of brutal in terms of EM match. I matched in latter half of my ranking list, but I am very happy where I am. In some ways, I am very glad I matched where I matched instead of the other programs that I had ranked higher. And, if I were given the chance to do it all over, I wouldn't want be anywhere else. So, don't sweat it too much. Most people end up where they should be.

Most of my friends (even the AOAs) didn't get their #1 last year. And, even some stellar applicants matched outside their top 3 (if they matched at all). Matching in California or the West coast in general seemed very difficult. So, try to be a little more realistic and rank sensibly if you plan to match West Coast.

Seriously, once it passes, it is not such a big deal as you think... Good luck!
 
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