What percentage of med students don't last through the first year?

[DDSBound]

I have always heard when you have been accepted to medical school it is VERY difficult to get tossed out or flunk out. Is this true? Does anyone know how many med students don't make it through year 1? Just curious.

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[Meatwad]

The overwhelming majority (I'd guess well over 90%) of US allo students make it through. I suppose the adcoms are picking the right people. The rate of students dropping/failing out is much higher in Caribbean schools. This is not a dig at the schools themselves, mind you.

I'd like to add, that the way you worded it makes it sound like you are implying that medical schools inflate grades or something of the sort to make sure students don't flunk out. In this case I disagree that it's hard to get thrown out. Don't stay on top of the material and I'm sure it's very easy to be booted. Like stated above, though, they seem to make good choices of whom to accept.

 

[psipsina]

I have always heard when you have been accepted to medical school it is VERY difficult to get tossed out or flunk out. Is this true? Does anyone know how many med students don't make it through year 1? Just curious.

The number who flunk out of medschool is pretty low. At least at my school they bend over backwards to try the get you through by offering tutoring and mentoring etc. There is no longer a weedout mentality but its not a walk in the park either. There is a larger number of students who are forced to repeat the year or specific classes and who leave voluntarily before they fail out because they see it coming. I think that most of the people who leave just weren't mentally prepared for medschool. If you are ready and willing to ask for help when needed and put the work in I think you have an extremely good chance of graduating with a MD.

 

[searun]

Let it go.

 

[DDSBound]

Let it go.

Let what go? Can't I ask a question here? I DONT WANT TO GO TO MED SCHOOL. I want to be an oral surgeon. Can I not be curious?! What's the matter with you. Quit ruining all of my threads and stop making insulting remarks. I'm sick of my threads being closed because you can't handle the truth. It is a free world! Or I should say "moved"... I didn't mind that the last thread was closed.

Look at my GPA! My dad is an MD. If I wanted to go that route, I would have. How incredibly ridiculous can you guys be?!

Thank you others for your polite responses. They are well accepted and appreciated.

 

[searun]

You are not well and I am trying to protect you. You will be ripped to shreds within the next hour.

 

[StrengthDoc]

I DONT WANT TO GO TO MED SCHOOL.

This works out perfectly. We don't want you to go either!!!

Since you have no interest in med school or even in going to see a medical professional about your drug problem (I know, I know...you don't have a problem), why don't you focus on trolling the dental forums?

 

[sillydoc2230]

From what I've gathered, the percentage of those who don't make it through the first year is rather low. A huge reason why is because the application process is so rigorous. Before the MCAT was created, the rate was a lot higher for one thing. Besides the MCAT, all other contributing factors into med school admission make it sure that a good majority of the matriculants have the right stuff. I'm sure you can google exact statistics for a particular school if you're very curious. Hope that helps!

 

[Mardi-Bob]

I have always heard when you have been accepted to medical school it is VERY difficult to get tossed out or flunk out. Is this true? Does anyone know how many med students don't make it through year 1? Just curious.

The fact that med. Schools retain Students is not due to Med. Schools making it very difficult to get removed. It is due to a change in the philosophy of how to strengthen Future doctors.

To sum it up in a few sentences, in the old days Medical School was the weed out point i.e. large drop-out rates due to inability to preform up to standard.

It was decided that this was only detrimental to students so reforms took place to make the application process the "weed-out" point.

Now due to reforms (not free passes) the vast majority if med students graduate Med School.

 

[toofache32]

The med school where I went was very spoon fed....you would really have to try to flunk out. Pay attention and you'll pass....read a little and you'll do great.

 

[notevenpremed]

mayo says all of their students Get their M.D. ..........................

 

[DDSBound]

Searun... I am not well? I am fine, thanks. I don't need your protection. I'm a big boy now.

StrengthDoc...You didn't even attempt to answer my question and I do NOT have a drug problem. Will you please stop trying to sabotage my threads?

To the rest, thanks for the information. I don't mean to imply that med school is easy once you get in. I was just wondering for curiosity's sake what the retention rate was on average. Thanks.

On that note, goodnight.

 

[riverwoman1040]

Searun... I am not well? I am fine, thanks. I don't need your protection. I'm a big boy now.

StrengthDoc...You didn't even attempt to answer my question and I do NOT have a drug problem. Will you please stop trying to sabotage my threads?

To the rest, thanks for the information. I don't mean to imply that med school is easy once you get in. I was just wondering for curiosity's sake what the retention rate was on average. Thanks.

On that note, goodnight.

Higher than dental school retention rate, isn't it? I swear I'm not trying to imply anything (I don't even know what I'd be implying, but I'm sure someone here will come up with something 😉 ) Just curious.

 

[pennybridge]

Can't I ask a question here? I DONT WANT TO GO TO MED SCHOOL.

I think you answered your own question.

I'm sick of my threads being closed because you can't handle the truth.

what do you call someone who keeps repeating the same action expecting a different outcome every time?

a dentist.

It is a free world!

most people stick with "it's a free country" because America owns the internet and everything on it, but you've gone for the gusto here. Kudos for being so worldly, having traveled across it's vast stretches and coming to the conclusion that the whole world is free.

you're wrong, and an idiot, the ironic thing of course being that those two things are probably related.

Look at my GPA!

yes, we see you've cleverly incorporated it into your sig. well done. Of course, on pre-allo advertising an overwhelmingly average GPA does not a gangsta make.

My dad is an MD.

pssht, sure, so is my dad. So is everyone's dad. with no proof you're just full of hot dentist air. Post a pic of his diploma with a message like "hello SDN!" or you're full of ****.

If I wanted to go that route, I would have.

and you wouldn't have gotten within 200feet of Upenn with your ****ty stats

How incredibly ridiculous can you guys be?!

about as ridiculous as your mom shooting pineapples out of her vagina. Seriously, tell her to stop, it's gross.

Thank you others for your polite responses. They are well accepted and appreciated.

hey, that's why this board exists, to help pre-dents figure out where they misplaced their testicles.


carry on.

 

[toofache32]

...and you wouldn't have gotten within 200feet of Upenn with your ****ty stats

What's a upenn?

 

[pennybridge]

What's a upenn?

what ddsbound needs to keep an erection when being "intimate" with his ugly wife.

 

[DocBR]

Wow. This is the most interesting thread all week!

 

[StrengthDoc]

StrengthDoc...You didn't even attempt to answer my question and I do NOT have a drug problem. Will you please stop trying to sabotage my threads?

Not sabotage. Just shining a little light on your recent history for folks that might wander on to this thread and think you were sincere. Maybe a couple of your recent posts will do that best:

It is WORKING so you must be wrong and I must be right! Anyway, what is the big deal. I am NOT an addict!

I medicate myself with OTC drugs so I don't have to deal with the MD.

All you guys know about me is that I would rather "scrape **** off of teeth" than stick my fingers up someone's butt

I left my computer up and my wife saw the posts I left. Anyhow, she is sitting here, refusing to talk to me until I apologize to the pre-allopathic forum.

DO seems to be the thing to do when MD fails. I don't know that I would want DO after my name.

 

[spicedmanna]

Oh boy, these threads aren't...right. I have the feeling that the mods are going to wield the Klingon "pain-sticks" soon.

 

[bostonpmed]

Wow. Just got home from a night at the bar and....

lovin this thread😍

Muhahaha.

Mmmk Im done 🙄 🙂

 

[GuzzyRon]

Oh boy! Penny will get this thread shut down!

 

[smq123]

Oh boy! Penny will get this thread shut down!

Penny is apparently also now on probation.

It just gets more interesting each time I log in!

 

[Tired]

Penny is apparently also now on probation.

Too bad, I was hoping he'd last long enough to make a "bite me" joke to the wannabe tooth guy.

 

[IWant2BeADoctor]

Too bad I've found Penny's vulgar humor to be quite amusing.😀 But I guess he went to far on his last post.😎

I have always heard when you have been accepted to medical school it is VERY difficult to get tossed out or flunk out. Is this true? Does anyone know how many med students don't make it through year 1? Just curious.

Over 90% of US MD students make it to graduation. If your intelligent and hard working enough to make it to Med school chances are your not going to fail.

 

[Cirrus83]

At most schools almost everyone makes it through all the years, so I don't even know what the overall percentage would be just for the first year.

The overall rate for graduation is 96% (AAMC stats), and at many schools the rate is even better, 98 or 99%. So I can only say that it's going to be a bit less than 4% since you're just asking about dropping out after the first year.

If I had to guess I'd venture 2%, probably because less people drop out in later years since they're more "pot committed" in later years (like, it makes no sense to drop out during your 4th year since you're almost done).

And keep in mind that 96% rate includes people getting horribly ill or dying or something, lol.

 

[IWant2BeADoctor]

And keep in mind that 96% rate includes people getting horribly ill or dying or something, lol.

Medical students getting ill and dying, talk about irony.

 

[Law2Doc]

I have always heard when you have been accepted to medical school it is VERY difficult to get tossed out or flunk out. Is this true? Does anyone know how many med students don't make it through year 1? Just curious.

About 1.5% of all med students have to leave for academic reasons, and another 4-5% will leave for other reasons. But you get second (and often third) chances in med school so in addition to those who fail out, some people will fail a course and need to make it up over a summer or retake a year -- probably another 5%. As indicated above, better than 90% of those admitted graduate (although not necessarilly in 4 years). Which is why admissions is made so difficult -- because this is the last real gatekeeper. Other professional schools (eg law) don't worry as much in admissions because higher attrition gets rid of those who don't belong -- they don't serve a final gatekeeper function. So in medicine it's actually a nicer philosophy -- the school has basically made a committment to you for you to become a professoinal, not just a good luck and hope to see you at graduation..

 

[DDSBound]

Wow, it is really too bad that this thread got to be so out of control. Thank you again for those of you who answered my question with seriousness, in full without any comments about my wife, an untrue drug addiction or an assumption about my motives. Seriously, I can take a joke... but there is a fine line between scarcastic funny and being down right nasty and humorless. It's too bad that this thread had to be the thread where that line was crossed. I didn't even know people got suspended from SDN. Anyway, I have the answer to my original post now, so thanks.

 

[DDSBound]

Higher than dental school retention rate, isn't it? I swear I'm not trying to imply anything (I don't even know what I'd be implying, but I'm sure someone here will come up with something 😉 ) Just curious.

Well, dental school retention rate is fairly high as well for most schools. Penn is really high. Most seem to be at least 92% retention by graduation. Some are 95%. It may depend a lot on school size. Most dental schools accept around 80 students/yr but seems bigger schools like NYU from what I hear have a lower retention percentage. Still, it is pretty good. I don't know how it compares to med school though, and in dental school from what I hear since it is more surgical in nature, not finishing your clinical work on time is a bit of an issue in some institutions.

 

[TypeA]

Why all the hate people? Geez.

 

[littlealex]

I think you answered your own question.

Well for starters, the flamers here are idiots. While I am premed, I realize that as great as medicine is, it is not for everyone. Hell, some of my dental friends are making just as much money as the average doctor, and they require half the training that we do.

Get over yourselves. Don't be dinguses simply because the anonymity; yes it is easy to be a dick here, but it makes you a despicable person.

 

[Dookter]

Well for starters, the flamers here are idiots. While I am premed, I realize that as great as medicine is, it is not for everyone. Hell, some of my dental friends are making just as much money as the average doctor, and they require half the training that we do.

Get over yourselves. Don't be dinguses simply because the anonymity; yes it is easy to be a dick here, but it makes you a despicable person.

The OP recently annoyed a lot of people. That's the reason for the responses.

 

[DDSBound]

Well for starters, the flamers here are idiots. While I am premed, I realize that as great as medicine is, it is not for everyone. Hell, some of my dental friends are making just as much money as the average doctor, and they require half the training that we do.

Get over yourselves. Don't be dinguses simply because the anonymity; yes it is easy to be a dick here, but it makes you a despicable person.

Dude, thanks and this is true. Dental net income does exceed that of many MDs, even in specialties such as pediatrics. The part that maybe you aren't getting quite right is that some states now require not only your 4 years of DDS school (thats right, same as med) but also a 1 yr residency. Specialists are generally on a 6-7 yr route (2-3 yr residency) and OMFS is 8-10 yr (4 year residency, 2 yr MD school). So your half the training is REALLY inaccurate. Just wanted you to know.

Case Western actually offers a DDS/MD program you complete in 5 yrs. How many of you are actually accepted to medical school, anyway?

 

[baylormed]

Dude, thanks and this is true. Dental net income does exceed that of many MDs, even in specialties such as pediatrics. The part that maybe you aren't getting quite right is that some states now require not only your 4 years of DDS school (thats right, same as med) but also a 1 yr residency. Specialists are generally on a 6-7 yr route (2-3 yr residency) and OMFS is 8-10 yr (4 year residency, 2 yr MD school). So your half the training is REALLY inaccurate. Just wanted you to know.

Case Western actually offers a DDS/MD program you complete in 5 yrs. How many of you are actually accepted to medical school, anyway?

Many, not most. And pediatrics is one of the lowest paid specialties, so I don't see how you can say "even in specialties such as pediatrics."

And yeah, half the training is a little inaccurate, given as it's about as long as medical school + residency if you want to specialize.

 

[QuakerPreMed]

Dental net income does exceed that of many MDs, even in specialties such as pediatrics.

Case Western actually offers a DDS/MD program you complete in 5 yrs. How many of you are actually accepted to medical school, anyway?

I'll give you a pass on this since you're not pre-allo ... pediatrics is primary care. it's not a specialty in the way the word would be used on SDN. Say something like "even specialties such as radiology" and we'll have a more interesting debate on our hands.

As to accepted to medical school, *raises hand*

 

[DDSBound]

Many, not most. And pediatrics is one of the lowest paid specialties, so I don't see how you can say "even in specialties such as pediatrics."

And yeah, half the training is a little inaccurate, given as it's about as long as medical school + residency if you want to specialize.

Do you know of Dr. Xiaodong Wang, Ph.D.? He is a biochemist at Southwestern. He is a small god where I work! The schools reputation SHOT UP after they hired him. He does AMAZING work. Brilliant!

 

[Dookter]

How many of you are actually accepted to medical school, anyway?

I've seen at least a handful of students post on this thread who are IN medical school....

 

[Eric Lindros]

Why all the hate people? Geez.

Well for starters, the flamers here are idiots. While I am premed, I realize that as great as medicine is, it is not for everyone. Hell, some of my dental friends are making just as much money as the average doctor, and they require half the training that we do.

Get over yourselves. Don't be dinguses simply because the anonymity; yes it is easy to be a dick here, but it makes you a despicable person.

Please look at the OPs post history. If you still defend him after that, God bless your hearts because we need more people like you on this earth.

DDSBound, I have honestly lost track of how many times you have reminded us that dentists have better lives, make more money, and are better human beings in general than doctors. I've lost track of how many times you have implied that you are making the greatest decision in the world and everyone else isn't. I've lost track of how many times you reminded us that oral surgeons are gods, and how you plan on getting there.

Seriously, we get it. But no need to polllute SDN with these silly threads anymore. There are other ways to feel good about yourself.

 

[DDSBound]

I'll give you a pass on this since you're not pre-allo ... pediatrics is primary care. it's not a specialty in the way the word would be used on SDN. Say something like "even specialties such as radiology" and we'll have a more interesting debate on our hands.

As to accepted to medical school, *raises hand*

Most intriguing because I KNOW for a FACT that pediatrics is one of the 24 recognized medical specialties... know what else is on that list? Radiology. Should I link you? Like I said, you can learn from me just like the others. Guess I'm right and a pre- not so pre- allo...is... wrong? 😕

http://www.abms.org/Who_We_Help/Physicians/specialties.aspx

 

[baylormed]

How many of you are actually accepted to medical school, anyway?

I missed this part of the post...

**raises hand** 😉

 

[njdmb820]

DDSBound, I'm not familiar with your previous posts, but if you're going to be a dentist, why in the world are you posting on the pre-allo forum? To me it seems more like you're just trying to justify that going to Penn Dental is as good, if not better, than going to an allopathic medical school (you've already told yourself that it's better than becoming a D.O.).

And why do you have your GPA/DAT score right under your post? No one cares/knows what the DAT score means and no one takes you more seriously with your "big league" 3.75 GPA (I know I don't).

 

[baylormed]

Most intriguing because I KNOW for a FACT that pediatrics is one of the 24 recognized medical specialties... know what else is on that list? Radiology. Should I link you? Like I said, you can learn from me just like the others. Guess I'm right and a pre- not so pre- allo...is... wrong? 😕

http://www.abms.org/Who_We_Help/Physicians/specialties.aspx

Dear god, we know it's a specialty. So no, you are not teaching us anything knew. But like the other poster said, it is a primary care specialty, and one of the lowest paid for that matter.

 

[Law2Doc]

But no need to polllute SDN with these silly threads anymore. There are other ways to feel good about yourself.

Or perhaps post your dental oriented comments about earnings and who is a god in the dental related forums, where people might actually have more interest.

 

[Meatwad]

Why do these threads always end up about doctor vs. dentist compensation? We all know dentists have on average a higher income for the amount of hours worked. If you go lurk around the dental baords, you will notice most students want to go into dentistry for economic reasons. It's a good career choice that affords you some prestige, lots of money, and plenty of free time to live your life; you won't be defined by your profession. All good things, if that's what you look for in life. The difference with premeds is most want to become a doctor (at least initially are drawn to it) for reasons that aren't just monetary. With the amount of threads that pop up daily about how bleak the future of medicine is, you'd have to be a fool to get into this field for economic reasons; whereas the next 30 years will be the golden age of dentistry.

Let's stop the doctor vs. dentist stupidity, and stop acting like their income and lifestyle defines what they both do.

 

[Meatwad]

Although it's not the most reliable source at times, for something as trivial as this it will suffice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primary_care

There you have a few "specialties," that are considered primary care. You will see pediatrics.

 

[Law2Doc]

Why do these threads always end up about doctor vs. dentist compensation?

When a dental student posts on the pre-allo board it is pretty inevitable. Based on his posting history the OP seems very focused on medicine versus dentistry distinctions.

 

[QuakerPreMed]

Most intriguing because I KNOW for a FACT that pediatrics is one of the 24 recognized medical specialties... http://www.abms.org/Who_We_Help/Physicians/specialties.aspx

...is reading for comprehension not required in the DAT? I said as the word is used on SDN. i.e., here I would generally use 'specialty' in the context in which you used it to refer to long-residency + fellowship-type concentrations for doctors, as compared to primary care (FP/peds/etc).

Why am I still responding to this thread? It's like a trainwreck ... impossible to look away...

 

[Eric Lindros]

Let's stop the doctor vs. dentist stupidity, and stop acting like their income and lifestyle defines what they both do.

That would be nice, but the OP has so cleverly titled this thread so it seems pre-allo related. Knowing his recent agenda, someone posted a comment about how it seems as though this is a shot at medical schools. So, that opens the floodgates for the OP to go on another rampage and here we are talking about dentists again....

 

[DDSBound]

Why do these threads always end up about doctor vs. dentist compensation? We all know dentists have on average a higher income for the amount of hours worked. If you go lurk around the dental baords, you will notice most students want to go into dentistry for economic reasons. It's a good career choice that affords you some prestige, lots of money, and plenty of free time to live your life; you won't be defined by your profession. All good things, if that's what you look for in life. The difference with premeds is most want to become a doctor (at least initially are drawn to it) for reasons that aren't just monetary. With the amount of threads that pop up daily about how bleak the future of medicine is, you'd have to be a fool to get into this field for economic reasons; whereas the next 30 years will be the golden age of dentistry.

Let's stop the doctor vs. dentist stupidity, and stop acting like their income and lifestyle defines what they both do.

Wow, I have to sign off, but this suggestion sounds good to me. For your info though... there is increasing evidence mounting that oral disease compromises systemic health. The oral cavity isn't considered a sep. entity anymore. There has been demonstrated a STRONG correlation with poor oral health and diabetes, artherosclerosis etc. If for no other reason than the adverse effects of chronic low grade inflammation. How about that Maryland boy that had a tooth ache and ended up dying from infection? I for one am not doing it for the $$. I think that is a presumptuous statement. Actually, if you go into a General Practice residency, they require that you go through medical grand rounds and rotations in internal medicine, emergency medicine, anesthesiology and endoscopy. Interesting, no?

PS, I don't require that you believe I received a 3.75 GPA in undergrad. It doesn't make it untrue. In fact, my 3.75 GPA is very accurate and I am very proud of it... also, dental student know what the DAT is.

 

[lilnoelle]

The Op did make a few rude threads a couple of days ago but he apologized. I think that means we are supposed to forgive. That thread was closed down because we got nasty on it - apparently didn't accept his apology, and then he bit back (understandable).
This thread has no reason to turn nasty.

Advice to the Op: maybe it would be good to lie low for a little while. That way you aren't insulted and pre-allo won't be cluttered by threads that are derogatory.
Your question, while valid, could be easily answered with the search function.