What really makes an applicant stand out in the adcom's eyes?

[BioMedPS]

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I'm sure we can all agree that this whole process is such a crapshoot. Most of us have pretty good GPA's and MCAT scores, as well as, strong LOR's. As far as EC's are concerned, just about everybody has the volunteering, shadowing, research, etc. A lot of people have publications. Also, I'm sure many have good personal statements. It seems like everyone has followed the "formula" of what makes a good applicant. I realize that some people have extraordinary things on their apps and I understand why they stand out, but I'd say they're a minority. A majority of applicants have about the same stats/activities. I really don't see how the adcoms make their decisions. What makes person B better than person A if they basically have the same qualifications? How come one will be selected for an interview while the other will get rejected? I'm just wondering what is that extra something they're seeing in some applicants. Anyway, it sucks...ok, end of rant!

 

[MattD]

Cleavage

 

[emttim]

Cleavage

 

[tourniquet1963]

Cleavage

if only......

 

[NewmansOwn]

Become an EMT -- easy class, only a few months long, get hands-on patient contact, which most applicants don't have...it's gotten me more than school acceptances.*





*Discounts at Denny's

 

[MattD]

Become an EMT -- easy class, only a few months long, get hands-on patient contact, which most applicants don't have...it's gotten me more than school acceptances.*





*Discounts at Denny's

I hope you don't actually EAT at dennys.....

Back in my "Sandwich Artist" days we gave discounts to on-duty EMTs, check at Subway if you want food that won't kill you 🙂

 

[midn]

I'm sure we can all agree that this whole process is such a crapshoot. Most of us have pretty good GPA's and MCAT scores, as well as, strong LOR's. As far as EC's are concerned, just about everybody has the volunteering, shadowing, research, etc. A lot of people have publications. Also, I'm sure many have good personal statements. It seems like everyone has followed the "formula" of what makes a good applicant. I realize that some people have extraordinary things on their apps and I understand why they stand out, but I'd say they're a minority. A majority of applicants have about the same stats/activities. I really don't see how the adcoms make their decisions. What makes person B better than person A if they basically have the same qualifications? How come one will be selected for an interview while the other will get rejected? I'm just wondering what is that extra something they're seeing in some applicants. Anyway, it sucks...ok, end of rant!

I think the interview plays a very big role. What you have to say about your experiences is far more important than just saying you did it. I kind of followed through the motions for all my clinical extracurriculars, and thus was a loss as to what to say during the interview about them. My other extracurriculars, like running and NROTC, I was far more enthusiastic since I invested so much time into them. Thus, I spent a disproportionate amount of time talking about the latter, but this didn't help me much since it doesn't have much overlap with medicine unless the interviewer was inquiring about something like leadership or perseverance.

Having a meaningful clinical experience will probably help you convince your interviewer that you are a good fit for their school. For non-medically related activities, always think about how it can potentially help you in medicine. It doesn't matter if everyone has done the same thing, it's what you got out of it.

 

[RySerr21]

i would go with the "legally blonde" approach

 

[NewmansOwn]

I hope you don't actually EAT at dennys.....

Back in my "Sandwich Artist" days we gave discounts to on-duty EMTs, check at Subway if you want food that won't kill you 🙂

Hell no I don't eat at Denny's -- but sweet, thanks for the Subway tip! Oh and sorry you had to give up the high life as a Sandwich Artist to become some sh*tty doctor -- life sucks, eh? Dreams don't always come true...

 

[Drogba]

if only......

Man, I gots to get on an adcom. Imagine all the... ahem... favors I could solicit...

 

[tourniquet1963]

Man, I gots to get on an adcom. Imagine all the... ahem... favors I could solicit...

hahah yeh.. your job would rock..
thats the problem with these med school interviews.. you have to dress all conservative.. major bummer.. my goods will have to be in hiding

 

[LizzyM]

The hard part is selecting applicants for interview. It is very hard and there is some "luck" involved. What might resonate with one application reader might not seem "special" to another. Likewise, if the reader is having a bad day, no one is going to seem "good enough". I think that this is the biggest reason for applying to 15-20 schools; the hope that even a few will find you worthy of an interview.

That said, it is good to see:

academic preparation that shows outstanding acheivement in a wide variety of courses with depth in some areas (upper level courses in one or two areas of study) and excellent performance on the MCAT

Responsibility, leadership within a peer group. This doen't mean being the President of a club but rather means taking a servant/leader role in the operation of a volunteer group, frat, or workplace. Being a leader of young campers or students doesn't count as much - the question is can you serve as a leader among your peers.

Clinical experience that seems to be more than one semester of "check the box" activity. Nice to see a few different experiences over the years. If you've been paid to provide clinical services, one presumes you've done a job that's worth being paid for (EMT, phlebotomist, nurse's aide/orderly, technician). (you show up on time & on schedule and do as your told and perhaps go beyond the call of duty).

Research experience with some role in design & conduct of an experiment. Standing out usually requires receiving funding for a summer stipend or other funding, a presentation at a nat'l meeting and/or a publication.

You seem to know how to unwind, have fun, you have interests beyond academic activities. You might consider athletics, performing arts, studio arts, journalism, a craft or hobby, or it could be that you've taken part in a World Tournament of Poker or taken a cooking course in Paris because it sounded like fun after taking the pre-reqs (non-trad).

 

[thejonqproject]

if only......

pictures.

 

[xanthomondo]

the same last name doesnt hurt, either

 

[MattD]

Hell no I don't eat at Denny's -- but sweet, thanks for the Subway tip! Oh and sorry you had to give up the high life as a Sandwich Artist to become some sh*tty doctor -- life sucks, eh? Dreams don't always come true...

I hope it's a universal thing, might have just been our franchise.

Ya know, there have been many times when i wish i DID still work in fast food. I didn't hate it, it's not hard, I was a superstar by the time I was 15 LOL. I could be a manager by now making 35K/year, W00T!

and I wouldn't come home and study every night after work... <sigh>

 

[armybound]

The hard part is selecting applicants for interview. It is very hard and there is some "luck" involved. What might resonate with one application reader might not seem "special" to another. Likewise, if the reader is having a bad day, no one is going to seem "good enough". I think that this is the biggest reason for applying to 15-20 schools; the hope that even a few will find you worthy of an interview.

That said, it is good to see:

academic preparation that shows outstanding acheivement in a wide variety of courses with depth in some areas (upper level courses in one or two areas of study) and excellent performance on the MCAT

Responsibility, leadership within a peer group. This doen't mean being the President of a club but rather means taking a servant/leader role in the operation of a volunteer group, frat, or workplace. Being a leader of young campers or students doesn't count as much - the question is can you serve as a leader among your peers.

Clinical experience that seems to be more than one semester of "check the box" activity. Nice to see a few different experiences over the years. If you've been paid to provide clinical services, one presumes you've done a job that's worth being paid for (EMT, phlebotomist, nurse's aide/orderly, technician). (you show up on time & on schedule and do as your told and perhaps go beyond the call of duty).

Research experience with some role in design & conduct of an experiment. Standing out usually requires receiving funding for a summer stipend or other funding, a presentation at a nat'l meeting and/or a publication.

You seem to know how to unwind, have fun, you have interests beyond academic activities. You might consider athletics, performing arts, studio arts, journalism, a craft or hobby, or it could be that you've taken part in a World Tournament of Poker or taken a cooking course in Paris because it sounded like fun after taking the pre-reqs (non-trad).

Thanks once again for your priceless insight, Lizzy.

 

[tourniquet1963]

pictures.

you first😛

 

[Drogba]

you first😛

Are you saying that if he posts a picture of his chest you will do the same?

 

[tourniquet1963]

Are you saying that if he posts a picture of his chest you will do the same?

absolutely, but now you must join him

 

[Drogba]

absolutely, but now you must join him

I just spilled olive paste on my naked stomach. Are you sure you want me to post picture?

 

[Tired]

That said, it is good to see:

academic preparation that shows outstanding acheivement in a wide variety of courses with depth in some areas (upper level courses in one or two areas of study) and excellent performance on the MCAT

Responsibility, leadership within a peer group. This doen't mean being the President of a club but rather means taking a servant/leader role in the operation of a volunteer group, frat, or workplace. Being a leader of young campers or students doesn't count as much - the question is can you serve as a leader among your peers.

Clinical experience that seems to be more than one semester of "check the box" activity. Nice to see a few different experiences over the years. If you've been paid to provide clinical services, one presumes you've done a job that's worth being paid for (EMT, phlebotomist, nurse's aide/orderly, technician). (you show up on time & on schedule and do as your told and perhaps go beyond the call of duty).

Research experience with some role in design & conduct of an experiment. Standing out usually requires receiving funding for a summer stipend or other funding, a presentation at a nat'l meeting and/or a publication.

You seem to know how to unwind, have fun, you have interests beyond academic activities. You might consider athletics, performing arts, studio arts, journalism, a craft or hobby, or it could be that you've taken part in a World Tournament of Poker or taken a cooking course in Paris because it sounded like fun after taking the pre-reqs (non-trad).

Which is fun, since:

1) None of this has **** to do with being a good physician or successful medical student, and

2) If you really enjoy doing all these extra things, you'll be completely miserable when your med school forces you to give them up

 

[tourniquet1963]

I just spilled olive paste on my naked stomach. Are you sure you want me to post picture?

you know what i like😍

 

[TheRealMD]

Which is fun, since:

1) None of this has **** to do with being a good physician or successful medical student, and

2) If you really enjoy doing all these extra things, you'll be completely miserable when your med school forces you to give them up

I thought med schools like you when you dance around because you'll be doing it during med school, when you're a resident, then maybe a fellow until you're in private practice or an attending. 🙄

Then again, what do I know? 😳

 

[etf]

a cashier's check

 

[Bacchus]

Cleavage

You should have seen my bartender tonight...

 

[pakbabydoll]

Cleavage

I wish it was that easy.

 

[Geekchick921]

Responsibility, leadership within a peer group. This doen't mean being the President of a club but rather means taking a servant/leader role in the operation of a volunteer group, frat, or workplace. Being a leader of young campers or students doesn't count as much - the question is can you serve as a leader among your peers.

Note to self, once you return to your alma mater, become a Commuter Assistant like you were going to do the first time around.

 

[armybound]

the interesting thing about that leadership within a group thing is it's really dependent on how you list your activities. example: in undergrad I was an officer in a club and also tutored other students through that club (it was my idea/plan to tutor). I listed this as two activities. it seems like it would have been more impressive to Lizzy had I simply said that I organized/planned peer tutoring for students. wording matters, maybe?

 

[87138]

Note to self, once you return to Arcadia, become a Commuter Assistant like you were going to do the first time around.

A Beaver girl, eh?

 

[LizzyM]

the interesting thing about that leadership within a group thing is it's really dependent on how you list your activities. example: in undergrad I was an officer in a club and also tutored other students through that club (it was my idea/plan to tutor). I listed this as two activities. it seems like it would have been more impressive to Lizzy had I simply said that I organized/planned peer tutoring for students. wording matters, maybe?

Leadership would be organizing others to be tutors.

Training others, supervising others, working out schedules for a group to cover specific time slots -- that's the sort of thing that adcoms like to see (some of the same skills used by chief residents).

 

[LizzyM]

Which is fun, since:

1) None of this has **** to do with being a good physician or successful medical student, and

2) If you really enjoy doing all these extra things, you'll be completely miserable when your med school forces you to give them up

The point is not that someone needs to do all these extra things but that you have at least one thing that you enjoy. Everyone should have a couple hours per week for relaxation. (Even studying 12 hours per day 6 days per week for the boards leaves a few hours per week of downtime.) Some will fill the time with yoga or a pick up game of basketball, others will try a new recipe or play a favorite sonata.

People with no healthy outlets for stress may be at higher risk for substance abuse and other self-destructive behavior.

 

[DrZaius]

The point is not that someone needs to do all these extra things but that you have at least one thing that you enjoy. Everyone should have a couple hours per week for relaxation. (Even studying 12 hours per day 6 days per week for the boards leaves a few hours per week of downtime.) Some will fill the time with yoga or a pick up game of basketball, others will try a new recipe or play a favorite sonata.

People with no healthy outlets for stress may be at higher risk for substance abuse and other self-destructive behavior.

What if my outlet for stress is video games and working out? (and posting on SDN, of course).

Also, what about TAing for a course? It doesn't really seem like they're your peer group, since you may be a grad student.

 

[MattD]

You should have seen my bartender tonight...

Harvard med bound?? :-D

 

[Geekchick921]

A Beaver girl, eh?

Yuppers.

 

[LizzyM]

What if my outlet for stress is video games and working out? (and posting on SDN, of course).

Also, what about TAing for a course? It doesn't really seem like they're your peer group, since you may be a grad student.

I've seen people list "working out" under the category of athletics. Just put something in the free text field of that item that notes your desire to remain physically fit and the added benefit of reducing stress.

As for being a TA, that can be "employment, non-military" if you are paid or "tutoring". I've seen it both ways. We don't generally think of it as evidence of "leadership" because they aren't really peers - you are an extension of the professor.

 

[AKN]

I've seen people list "working out" under the category of athletics. Just put something in the free text field of that item that notes your desire to remain physically fit and the added benefit of reducing stress.

As for being a TA, that can be "employment, non-military" if you are paid or "tutoring". I've seen it both ways. We don't generally think of it as evidence of "leadership" because they aren't really peers - you are an extension of the professor.

Lizzy,
What about the non-trad parents? If I'm not working (32 hrs/wk) or studying (12 credit hours/semester), I'm taking kids to their sporting events. The only "spare" time left is spent sleeping, doing laundry, or making dinner... Somehow, I don't think "watching juvenile baseball/soccer practice/games 12 hours per week" counts as an EC, but that's my life

 

[Bacchus]

Harvard med bound?? :-D

I don't get it? 😕

 

[87138]

I don't get it? 😕

Presumably you were alluding to her massive cleavage. As per the joke earlier, massive cleavage would suggest an ability to get into any school simply by "using" that to her advantage. The bigger the breasts, the more prestigious school.

 

[Doublecortin]

Yuppers.

😆😆😆

 

[Timmythemic22]

I'm sure we can all agree that this whole process is such a crapshoot. Most of us have pretty good GPA's and MCAT scores, as well as, strong LOR's. As far as EC's are concerned, just about everybody has the volunteering, shadowing, research, etc. A lot of people have publications. Also, I'm sure many have good personal statements. It seems like everyone has followed the "formula" of what makes a good applicant. I realize that some people have extraordinary things on their apps and I understand why they stand out, but I'd say they're a minority. A majority of applicants have about the same stats/activities. I really don't see how the adcoms make their decisions. What makes person B better than person A if they basically have the same qualifications? How come one will be selected for an interview while the other will get rejected? I'm just wondering what is that extra something they're seeing in some applicants. Anyway, it sucks...ok, end of rant!

Why don't you talk about your creative contributions to an internet forum?

 

[seraph524]

A Nobel Prize.

 

[LizzyM]

Lizzy,
What about the non-trad parents? If I'm not working (32 hrs/wk) or studying (12 credit hours/semester), I'm taking kids to their sporting events. The only "spare" time left is spent sleeping, doing laundry, or making dinner... Somehow, I don't think "watching juvenile baseball/soccer practice/games 12 hours per week" counts as an EC, but that's my life

Well, you have working; that's an "experience" (employment, non-military). Cooking can be listed as a "hobby/advocation" and you can credit yourself with 4 hours per week (or more) - just be sure to try a new recipe every so often. Any way you could become an "assistant coach" for some of those young athletes? That would be "volunteer, non-clinical" and you might be counting a couple hours per week.

 

[HPMMajor]

I don't have much clinical experience or science based research (although I will be published in April for my health policy thesis), but one activity that I did my freshman year may set me apart from other applicants (I hope!)

I researched, trained and organized fellow students (mostly upperclassmen, I was a frosh) to speak at retirement centers and churches about registering for Medicare Part D- old people don't really use the internet, and the sign up process for the Part D program was internet based. Basically we lectured about what to look for, explained the basics, then helped them sign up individually on a case by case basis- great experience

I'm looking into similar activities/volunteer experiences- anyone have any ideas?

 

[emttim]

Hey Lizzy, out of curiosity, whatabout being an office manager for a small manufacturing company for two years? Would that suffice for leadership? I would imagine so, but this process is utterly insane, so I figured I'd ask. And since I'm sure the question will come up since there's different types of office managers, yes I managed people....a production supervisor who then delegated what I needed done down to the 10 or so people in production, helped the owner manage the sales department (3 reps), and then managed all the usual office crap such as A/P, A/R, inventory, cust service & sales help as needed, etc.

 

[Tired]

The point is not that someone needs to do all these extra things but that you have at least one thing that you enjoy. Everyone should have a couple hours per week for relaxation. (Even studying 12 hours per day 6 days per week for the boards leaves a few hours per week of downtime.) Some will fill the time with yoga or a pick up game of basketball, others will try a new recipe or play a favorite sonata.

People with no healthy outlets for stress may be at higher risk for substance abuse and other self-destructive behavior.

But that's not really what we're talking about, is it? We're talking about playing "check the box" on the How-to-get-into-med-school list.

Standing out as an applicant isn't about finding appropriate stress-relieving activities. It's about doing all (not some, or one) of the things on your list so that you can be accepted, and promptly give them all up.

 

[LizzyM]

But that's not really what we're talking about, is it? We're talking about playing "check the box" on the How-to-get-into-med-school list.

Standing out as an applicant isn't about finding appropriate stress-relieving activities. It's about doing all (not some, or one) of the things on your list so that you can be accepted, and promptly give them all up.

How many people have you admitted to medical school?

How many have you rejected?

I know what we are looking for in 2008. We have the BS detectors set on HIGH to ferret out the resume padders and box checkers. We are looking for sincerely interesting people who know how to work hard and play hard.

 

[LizzyM]

Hey Lizzy, out of curiosity, what about being an office manager for a small manufacturing company for two years? Would that suffice for leadership? I would imagine so, but this process is utterly insane, so I figured I'd ask. And since I'm sure the question will come up since there's different types of office managers, yes I managed people....a production supervisor who then delegated what I needed done down to the 10 or so people in production, helped the owner manage the sales department (3 reps), and then managed all the usual office crap such as A/P, A/R, inventory, cust service & sales help as needed, etc.

employment, non-military. Provide the job description in the free text field. Each adcom member will make a judgment as to your leadership capacity. It also helps if you have a LOR from the boss there and if you can prime the boss (here's hoping it wasn't your dad) to mention your leadership skills in the LOR all the better.

 

[Doodledog]

But that's not really what we're talking about, is it? We're talking about playing "check the box" on the How-to-get-into-med-school list.

Standing out as an applicant isn't about finding appropriate stress-relieving activities. It's about doing all (not some, or one) of the things on your list so that you can be accepted, and promptly give them all up.

One of the great things about SDN is that the many people who read it can get a range of inputs about common questions and then decide what to believe. In this case, LizzyM a veteran medical school faculty and adcom member has explained that admissions decisions, including interview ones are individualized and take into account more than GPA, MCAT and so-called mandatory premed activities. She has explained that we are looking for people who show balance in their lives and have outlets for their time other than premed activities and academics.

Now, I entirely concur with her. I read many applications and interview applicants and have done so for a long time. I make a particular point of evaluating, as best I can, the overall application and taking note of some of the things such as AKN mentioned. Adcom members may vary in how they interpret individual activities and circumstances, but for sure we can't evaluate them if we don't know about them.

Now, it is up to the people who read this whether they believe long-standing adcom members about this, or, prefer to focus on doing only premed activities that they, or others, think will impress adcom members.

Up to you folks!🙂

 

[AKN]

Well, you have working; that's an "experience" (employment, non-military). Cooking can be listed as a "hobby/advocation" and you can credit yourself with 4 hours per week (or more) - just be sure to try a new recipe every so often. Any way you could become an "assistant coach" for some of those young athletes? That would be "volunteer, non-clinical" and you might be counting a couple hours per week.

Lizzy,
I'll definitely be counting my various jobs as "experience." Being 30-something, I've had a few.
I tried coaching 👎 My dear son said it best -- "A herd of cats could coach better than you." I think I'll leave that failure off (or perhaps group it with other kid-related things, such as chaperoning field trips and fund-raising for the school and sporting teams).
I definitely won't be counting cooking as a hobby/avocation, because I cook well enough to merely keep us fed (nothing gourmet...). Heck, I enjoy doing laundry more than cooking... I suppose my application will be hobby-less (unless SDN counts).
Thanks for all the help you give us. You're the best😍

 

[emttim]

employment, non-military. Provide the job description in the free text field. Each adcom member will make a judgment as to your leadership capacity. It also helps if you have a LOR from the boss there and if you can prime the boss (here's hoping it wasn't your dad) to mention your leadership skills in the LOR all the better.

Hrm. Sounds like I'll be doing that PADI Divemaster course after all, just to be safe...