Forum Members What say you?

[Winged Scapula]

Suggestion - Vascular Surgery Forum

Past and present experience shows that subforums reduce traffic in the main forum, subdivide the community, increase the number of unanswered threads and create more work for staff (eg moving misplaced threads), which is why we’ve long argued against it.

It may work elsewhere although I’m not sure the IM forums are exemplary as they have the same problems as above.

@SLUser11 @SouthernSurgeon @TypeADissection @Jolie South @ThoracicGuy @thedrjojo @vhawk @dpmd @ACSurgeon @LucidSplash @mimelim

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[dpmd]

I would not likely visit a vascular surgery subforum. If there are enough vascular surgeons who don't want to be bothered by our general surgery crap that they want their own place I would not object to one. I just agree with you that there isn't much action on the page so people who only want to see certain stuff could easily pick and choose while others who are not in that specialty may be able to contribute, or may benefit from the discussion. For that reason if some of the current less busy subdivisions got rolled back into the main surgery forum it wouldn't really bother me either, but I have no strong feelings either way so nutmeg it is.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

I'm not sure that a separate subforum would be that useful. Vascular surgery is still a rotation in general surgery and would be applicable to both. I would keep it as is.

Nice to see the nutmeg option, though.

 

[Jolie South]

A lot of stuff is common between surgical subspecialties and vascular is still sorta general surgery so I say keep as is. We already don’t get tons of traffic on the main surgery.

 

[vhawk]

I voted no but only because I couldn't vote "either is fine". I feel the same way dpmd does. From a selfish POV, I sometimes enjoy reading the non general threads that get posted here, including vascular, but probably wouldn't go into the vascular sub to see them so I'd miss out on them, and it probably will have some impact on the overall traffic in the main forum. That being said if the vascular peeps really want it who am I to object

 

[dpmd]

I voted no but only because I couldn't vote "either is fine".

That would be the nutmeg option

 

[vhawk]

I thought that was "I just want to see the results"

 

[dpmd]

I thought that was "I just want to see the results"

Also means none of the other options are compelling enough to want to choose one

 

[mimelim]

I just search for "vascular" every once in a while and reply to threads as needed. I don't think there is enough traffic to have a sub forum.

 

[thedrjojo]

Nothing additional to add. This is an answer in search for a problem

 

[TypeADissection]

I feel like the kid that just got invited to the adult table. But I'm good with the way things are now. I don't think a separate vascular surgery sub-forum adds anything. It's such a small field anyway. I do enjoy reading up on what everyone else is doing too. Cheers.

 

[Dares Dareson]

Subforums we need urgently:

Vascular
Cardiothoracic
Trauma
Hepatobiliary
Pediatric
Surgical Oncology
Colorectal
Bariatric
Breast
Hand
Head and Neck
Minimally Invasive

 

[VincentAdultman]

I'm a little surprised vascular surgeons would crave a safe space. But who am I to judge.

 

[dpmd]

I'm a little surprised vascular surgeons would crave a safe space. But who am I to judge.

I was all set to make a joking remark but then I couldn't remember if you are a pod or ortho so I didn't want to make fun using the wrong specialty.

 

[Lawpy]

What about a reverse situation of merging the Surgery Applications subforum back into the main Surgery forum?

I don't recall seeing a residency application forum in any of the other specialty forums. And the Internal Medicine forums merged all the less active subspecialties into Other Subspecialties Forum.

 

[Lawpy]

The alternative proposal is to merge all the Surgery subforums back into main Surgery forum and merge all the Medicine subforums into the main Internal Medicine forum. Pediatrics and OB/GYN have several fellowships but they don't have subforums given their overall activity. Anesthesia and EM are pretty active but they don't have subforums corresponding to subspecialties (besides I guess the Toxicology forum common to both EM and Peds).

 

[TraumaLlamaMD]

Or merging everything except applications back in because, TBH, it’s nice to have the main board mostly free from WAMC and “what interviews did you get?”

 

[Lawpy]

Or merging everything except applications back in because, TBH, it’s nice to have the main board mostly free from WAMC and “what interviews did you get?”

Would having sticky WAMC and sticky surgery application threads help? The multiple WAMC and interviews threads can be merged into the sticky threads. I guess I'm not seeing the difference between an application subforum and application sticky threads.

 

[TypeADissection]

Would having sticky WAMC and sticky surgery application threads help? The multiple WAMC and interviews threads can be merged into the sticky threads. I guess I'm not seeing the difference between an application subforum and application sticky threads.

Would it help though? It seems to me from a birds eye view (since I never ever really reply to those questions), that the people who are posting the WAMC aren't necessarily inclined to look at the stickies or use the search function. I'm all for anything that would help streamline appropriate posts though.

 

[TraumaLlamaMD]

Would having sticky WAMC and sticky surgery application threads help? The multiple WAMC and interviews threads can be merged into the sticky threads. I guess I'm not seeing the difference between an application subforum and application sticky threads.

Ehhh. Right now there are at least five interview threads at the top of the applications sub forum (residency and multiple fellowships) - to have all these stickied at the top of the main forum would take up a lot of space, particularly on mobile devices, and hide the new relevant threads.

 

[Lawpy]

Would it help though? It seems to me from a birds eye view (since I never ever really reply to those questions), that the people who are posting the WAMC aren't necessarily inclined to look at the stickies or use the search function. I'm all for anything that would help streamline appropriate posts though.

Ehhh. Right now there are at least five interview threads at the top of the applications sub forum (residency and multiple fellowships) - to have all these stickied at the top of the main forum would take up a lot of space, particularly on mobile devices, and hide the new relevant threads.

Hmm true. Okay I suppose having a separate application subforum makes sense (although it would be better to move the residency/fellowship threads from other subspecialty forums into the Surgery Application subforum just to put everything in one forum).

Merging the other subspecialties forums back to the main Surgery forum is probably a good idea. I mentioned the separate Vascular Surgery forum mainly for the sake of easing forum navigation since the Surgery forums have a sort of a hybrid setup in its organization. Having the main Surgery forum for all things related to surgery and surgical subspecialties and a Surgery Applications subforum for all things related to residency/fellowship applications would help organize things better and make the forums easier to navigate.

If this idea works, I'll try suggesting a similar measure for the Internal Medicine forums.

 

[VincentAdultman]

I was all set to make a joking remark but then I couldn't remember if you are a pod or ortho so I didn't want to make fun using the wrong specialty.

I'm ortho. Fire away!

 

[dpmd]

I'm ortho. Fire away!

I forget what I was going to say but it had something to do with feet so unless you are a foot and ankle specialist it won't work.

 

[ACSurgeon]

Suggestion - Vascular Surgery Forum

Past and present experience shows that subforums reduce traffic in the main forum, subdivide the community, increase the number of unanswered threads and create more work for staff (eg moving misplaced threads), which is why we’ve long argued against it.

It may work elsewhere although I’m not sure the IM forums are exemplary as they have the same problems as above.

@SLUser11 @SouthernSurgeon @TypeADissection @Jolie South @ThoracicGuy @thedrjojo @vhawk @dpmd @ACSurgeon @LucidSplash @mimelim

Keep it simple. No subforum.

 

[Lawpy]

Keep it simple. No subforum.

Then what are your thoughts on merging the other subspecialties subforums besides the application forum into the main Surgery forum?

 

[Winged Scapula]

Then what are your thoughts on merging the other subspecialties subforums besides the application forum into the main Surgery forum?

You keep mentioning this. What are you talking about? Orthopedics, neurosurgery, and urology are not subspecialties of general surgery. The only one we could possibly merge would be plastic surgery and I don’t see any call for that.

 

[Lawpy]

You keep mentioning this. What are you talking about? Orthopedics, neurosurgery, and urology are not subspecialties of general surgery. The only one we could possibly merge would be plastic surgery and I don’t see any call for that.

Honestly, I was going by this guide: What are the surgical specialties?.

The American College of Surgeons recognizes 14 surgical specialties: cardiothoracic surgery, colon and rectal surgery, general surgery, gynecology and obstetrics, gynecologic oncology, neurological surgery, ophthalmic surgery, oral and maxillofacial surgery, orthopaedic surgery, otorhinolaryngology, pediatric surgery, plastic and maxillofacial surgery, urology, and vascular surgery.

Which fits with the current organization as to how those specific subspecialties are indexed as subforums under Surgery forum as opposed to being separate forums altogether. I wasn't thinking of the Surgery forum to be uniquely specific to general surgery and surgery fellowships discussions.

Even so, I'm still confused as to what are the requirements for getting a separate subforum? Is it activity? Is it representation? Are subforums supposed to represent subspecialties or different but related fields? There isn't a clear definition on SDN.

Only few specialty forums have this many field-specific subforums and that's mainly just IM and surgery. For IM, each of the subforum corresponds to a specific fellowship after a general IM residency, so I'd guess that the IM subspecialties are simply subspecialties of general internal medicine. Given the general lack of activity in those forums, merging those forums back to IM would probably be reasonable.

For surgery and surgical subspecialties, having more subforums is apparently opposed because that would draw traffic away from the main Surgery forums and the subforums would risk being inactive. So I was thinking for simplicity and ease in navigation purposes that merging the subforums back into main Surgery forum would help.

But apparently, merging them back isn't a good idea because the main Surgery forum is meant to represent general surgery and the subforums correspond to surgical subspecialties that aren't subspecialties of general surgery? And vascular surgery is too related to general surgery despite an integrated residency application process present so it's considered to be a subspecialty of general surgery and thus doesn't warrant a subforum?

 

[Lawpy]

Or are the surgery forums organized by this guide?: How many years of postgraduate training do surgical residents undergo?

And so why neurosurg, ENT, uro, plastics and ortho have specific subforums is because their training is uniquely a combination of general surgery + subspecialty training that's done within residency? But for things like vascular surgery, it's just general surgery training + separate subspecialty-specific training through fellowships?

 

[Smurfette]

Then what are your thoughts on merging the other subspecialties subforums besides the application forum into the main Surgery forum?

No.

Frankly, I'm not sure why you wanted to ADD a subforum for vascular but now suddenly want to take the existing subforums away? As they say, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

ACS formed "back in the day" before separate and distinct fields of OB, urology, ortho, etc. were created. They are surgical fields but aren't a division/fellowships of general surgery like the IM subspecialties are. They are their own residencies. Some of this will be much clearer after you start med school and do rotations. The surgery forum (actually all the specialty forums) are geared toward residents and attendings and most users stick to only their area or dabble in some related forums. SDN tries to give every specialty representation, but not every subspecialty needs it's own forum too.

As far as SDN forums and subforums, it depends on volume and interest and also what "makes sense". There have been some forums dissolved over the years and new ones created. If something doesn't seem to work, adjustments are made. But making the adjustments also has to not alienate users; if splitting off a new subforum results in less people contributing to a topic, it will frustrate users who get no input into their questions or make them resort to cross posting in other areas as well. If a topic (like CT or vascular) becomes so "big" that it crowds out other topics applicable in a forum, it may deserve it's own subforum. But that hasn't been the case here thus far and if a need arises, it can be done at the appropriate time.

 

[Lawpy]

No.

Frankly, I'm not sure why you wanted to ADD a subforum for vascular but now suddenly want to take the existing subforums away? As they say, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

ACS formed "back in the day" before separate and distinct fields of OB, urology, ortho, etc. were created. They are surgical fields but aren't a division/fellowships of general surgery like the IM subspecialties are. They are their own residencies. Some of this will be much clearer after you start med school and do rotations. The surgery forum (actually all the specialty forums) are geared toward residents and attendings and most users stick to only their area or dabble in some related forums. SDN tries to give every specialty representation, but not every subspecialty needs it's own forum too.

As far as SDN forums and subforums, it depends on volume and interest and also what "makes sense". There have been some forums dissolved over the years and new ones created. If something doesn't seem to work, adjustments are made. But making the adjustments also has to not alienate users; if splitting off a new subforum results in less people contributing to a topic, it will frustrate users who get no input into their questions or make them resort to cross posting in other areas as well. If a topic (like CT or vascular) becomes so "big" that it crowds out other topics applicable in a forum, it may deserve it's own subforum. But that hasn't been the case here thus far and if a need arises, it can be done at the appropriate time.

I'm still supporting creating a separate Vascular Surgery forum, and I only mentioned about merging the other forums back because there isn't a clear definition on what warrants a separate forum. There seems to be an inconsistency here and the argument used against creating a separate Vascular Surgery forum can be extended to other existing subforums (e.g. why are there separate IM subspecialty forums that are mostly inactive when they can just be merged to the general internal medicine forum since these subforums are just representing fellowships?). I'm more focused on consistency here.

When I suggested the Vascular Surgery forum idea, I was thinking in the context of general activity and how well it's represented by residents, fellows and attendings on here. I wasn't looking at it in the context of how closely it's related to general surgery since I was viewing Surgery forum as all things related to surgery rather than just uniquely focused on general surgery and fellowships. I was able to draw up parallels with the other existing surgical subspecialty forums and was thinking that this new forum would be similar if not more active than the other forums.

The concern on creating subforums is that it draws activity away from the main forums. And specialty forums are not always active. It's just interesting how the generally active forums like anesthesiology and EM have minimal subforums but less active forums like IM and surgery have a lot of subforums. So I wasn't sure how these forums were organized exactly.

But thanks for the explanation which helps answer the questions I have

 

[Lawpy]

Seems like the poll and consensus here is to keep the vascular surgery topics/discussions in the main Surgery forum while keeping the "non-general surgery" subspecialties as separate forums because of differences in training. That makes sense (although the IM parallels still confuse me occasionally). I didn't know the main Surgery forum is viewed as a place for mainly general surgery and related discussions.

I just wanted to present my thoughts on the matter from mainly an organizational viewpoint since it's been confusing me for a while. Maybe hopefully the vascular surgery community and/or other surgical subspecialty community becomes large enough to warrant a separate subforum in the future but I'm glad there's already significant discussion on these topics on SDN.

My other main concern is lack in activity and representation in some other specialty forums, like Sports Medicine, Sleep Medicine, Nuclear Medicine etc. Inactivity seems to be a problem for some forums in the Interdisciplinary section, such as Med Business and Topics in Healthcare. So I'll look into ways to help increase activity in these forums before suggesting for further additions/revisions/mergers in the forums.

Thanks for the help and insights

 

[VincentAdultman]

I forget what I was going to say but it had something to do with feet so unless you are a foot and ankle specialist it won't work.

Feet are gross. Ew.

BTW my safe space is telling the nurses to call medicine for any issue that doesn't involve the bone, joints, or connective tissue.

 

[LucidSplash]

I’m late to the game from when I was tagged because of a rough call and it seems like this is all resolved but...

Agree with opinions above regarding leaving everything as it is. I don’t find the current organizational scheme to be confusing or taxing. It doesn’t have to be an “all subspecialty subforums or none” approach, it’s whatever makes sense based on usage patterns.

I don’t see the need for a vascular subforum because even though there seems to be a run of topics on this of late I think it’s just a coincidence. Typically this hasn’t been the case and I don’t think vascular topics overwhelm the other threads so as to bury them. Also believe it or not there are still some general surgeons doing some bread and butter vascular out there.

If there was a subforum of course I would go there because I’m in vascular. But I don’t know that it benefits the group as a whole to have it separated out unless the general surgeons want to put a “pus and poop only” sign up. If that’s the case we’ll take our ball and go play with our dead feet alone in our subforum.

I don’t want the WAMC threads in the main forum because frankly sometimes I don’t know the answer (it’s been almost 10 years now since I applied to residency) and it’s out of the scope of the forum topic as practiced which is the practice of and training in Surgery.

 

[Trauma Surgeon]

Shouldn't you move vascular to radiology forum so they can talk to their peers?

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Shouldn't you move vascular to radiology forum so they can talk to their peers?

 

[MediCane2006]

Chiming in to agree with the majority, I would keep things the way they are.

 

[Psai]

I wish we could make some forums invisible so I don't have to scroll down every time to get to the physicians forum. Is international and audiology really important? I don't visit the vast majority of forums and I can't figure out how to ignore them.

 

[Smurfette]

I wish we could make some forums invisible so I don't have to scroll down every time to get to the physicians forum. Is international and audiology really important? I don't visit the vast majority of forums and I can't figure out how to ignore them.

I collapse the sections I don't frequent, but you also can follow or favorite various forums and just go to the "watched forums" screen instead. That screen will then only show you the forums you want.

 

[Psai]

I collapse the sections I don't frequent, but you also can follow or favorite various forums and just go to the "watched forums" screen instead. That screen will then only show you the forums you want.

I don't know how to do either of these things and I've been trying for a while.

 

[LucidSplash]

I wish we could make some forums invisible so I don't have to scroll down every time to get to the physicians forum. Is international and audiology really important? I don't visit the vast majority of forums and I can't figure out how to ignore them.

I just have bookmarks.

 

[Smurfette]

I don't know how to do either of these things and I've been trying for a while.

At the top of a forum you are interested, on the right, there will be an option to "watch forum". Once you do that, to find, on the main forums page, there is a "watched forums" option at the top next to "watched threads".

As far as collapsing forums, each section has a "label" above the forum links themselves. If you click on the little arrow on the right, it will collapse all the forums in that section.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

At the top of a forum you are interested, on the right, there will be an option to "watch forum". Once you do that, to find, on the main forums page, there is a "watched forums" option at the top next to "watched threads".

As far as collapsing forums, each section has a "label" above the forum links themselves. If you click on the little arrow on the right, it will collapse all the forums in that section.

That doesn't work in the sdn blue style. And that's the way sdn was meant to be viewed.

 

[Psai]

At the top of a forum you are interested, on the right, there will be an option to "watch forum". Once you do that, to find, on the main forums page, there is a "watched forums" option at the top next to "watched threads".

As far as collapsing forums, each section has a "label" above the forum links themselves. If you click on the little arrow on the right, it will collapse all the forums in that section.

Neither of these things seem to exist for the old school style and I really can't bear looking at the others.

 

[Smurfette]

Neither of these things seem to exist for the old school style and I really can't bear looking at the others.

I see the "watch forum" option on the Old School option (and the Old Blue option). It's not along the header, it's below that. Go in the forum you are looking at. Look to the right below the "post new thread" button (or just above the top of the first thread). It's next to "ignore forum" and "selected threads".

You're right about the collapse option though...I don't see it on some of the styles.

 

[Psai]

I see the "watch forum" option on the Old School option (and the Old Blue option). It's not along the header, it's below that. Go in the forum you are looking at. Look to the right below the "post new thread" button (or just above the top of the first thread). It's next to "ignore forum" and "selected threads".

You're right about the collapse option though...I don't see it on some of the styles.

Amazing, thanks

 

[Buzz Me]

Don't think it's necessary. I agree with not further reducing traffic to the main forum.