What should I do now if I want to make money?

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Sumbody1245

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With the assumption that I have the capability to do all the options I am listing. I never really wanted to be a doctor, graduated with a sub 3.0 GPA and have been working for the past few years barely making anything.

I don't want to waste any more time. Not another year. Which option will make me the most money the fastest? I can't even APPLY to grad programs with a sub 3.0 GPA so that's kind of pointless. To continue my schooling I would need to get another undergrad degree. And then what, its MD/DO vs dentistry vs MBA. The lifestyle of Dentists and certain specialties of MD seem nice along with the compensation.

Or I could skip the cost of undergrad and go straight into a Caribbean school, which seems like a good option. I only got 1 recommendation letter from a professor, and it was for AUA and I didn't do my MCAT because I thought for sure I was going to AUA. Well I decided to take some time off, AUA tells me they require the MCAT now, so I just sat down and took it blind and got a 22. But I heard AUA is trash now and they have a cheating scandal or something, making it probably tougher to get into a good residency.

So what now, go back to undergrad then 7+ years of medicine? Is this preferable over an MBA? MBA grads don't make as much as doctors even if you graduate from Harvard though and they have worse hours... Being a doctor sounds okay in terms of compensation but only if I get into a good specialty, and is that possible coming from the Caribbean? TL;DR What makes most sense for me now if all I care about is compensation/lifestyle and the time it takes to get there? Thanks beforehand for any non condescending replies!
 
Over time, even for a physician who goes right from college to med school to residency, physicians make (minus debt, interest, etc) approximately 10 bucks more per hour than teachers.

TL;DR: Don't be a doctor if you want a vault of gold coins to dive into.
 
Rik1111 said:
Over time, even for a physician who goes right from college to med school to residency, physicians make (minus debt, interest, etc) approximately 10 bucks more per hour than teachers.
TL;DR: Don't be a doctor if you want a vault of gold coins to dive into.
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An MBA would be of similar expense of med school. And I would have to get another undergrad degree to get into an MBA worth its salt, so overall that's like 150k+ and 4 years. More expensive than some caribbean med schools, but also doesn't require as much time.

TL;DR if I want a vault of gold coins to dive into, what path do you suggest? Obviously if you strike big in music or in founding your own business you would, but that's a bit of a gamble.
 
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I am also interested in this question. There are definitely outliers out there, like NuttyEngDude mentioned one. But how many engineers actually get into google and make that much? And how many engineers are stuck at 60k jobs no matter how hard they work? How many people with MBA actually make 500k+ a year, and how many are stuck with the 80-100k a year? But doctors for sure make money. Jobs will always be there for physicians, and the compensation is good as well. The average family physician makes $180,000 a year in my city according to salary.com. That's just a family physician, but if you specialize, then you can make $200,000+ per year. I think neurologists make like $230k a year? Psychiatrists make around 200k a year, so I guess a lot of the regular specialties revolve around that 200k assuming you work full time. This does not include surgery, as surgeons can make a lot more, but have to work long hours. I would say that most specialized physicians make at least 150k starting salary right out of residency, and after just a few years it probably increases to 200k. A lot probably start at 200k right after residency, I would say.
 
Rik1111 said:
Over time, even for a physician who goes right from college to med school to residency, physicians make (minus debt, interest, etc) approximately 10 bucks more per hour than teachers.
TL;DR: Don't be a doctor if you want a vault of gold coins to dive into.
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I get the point, but source?
 
Ja3ger said:
I get the point, but source?
Click to expand...

This is what I'm referencing. http://qz.com/67304/i-just-finished-my-87-hour-work-week-and-have-230000-in-medical-school-debt/

My number could be off but the idea is right.


(In case you meant the gold vault thing)

scrooge-500x281.jpg
 
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Drakeyboo said:
I am also interested in this question. There are definitely outliers out there, like NuttyEngDude mentioned one. But how many engineers actually get into google and make that much? And how many engineers are stuck at 60k jobs no matter how hard they work? How many people with MBA actually make 500k+ a year, and how many are stuck with the 80-100k a year? But doctors for sure make money. Jobs will always be there for physicians, and the compensation is good as well. The average family physician makes $180,000 a year in my city according to salary.com. That's just a family physician, but if you specialize, then you can make $200,000+ per year. I think neurologists make like $230k a year? Psychiatrists make around 200k a year, so I guess a lot of the regular specialties revolve around that 200k assuming you work full time. This does not include surgery, as surgeons can make a lot more, but have to work long hours. I would say that most specialized physicians make at least 150k starting salary right out of residency, and after just a few years it probably increases to 200k. A lot probably start at 200k right after residency, I would say.
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The average physician will most likely out earn the average engineer over a lifetime. However, don't discount the fact that phyicians start making that money 7-10+ years after the average college grad and have to spend time digging themselves out of student loan debt. Someone who starts working after UG will have a large headstart on building up investments. I'm pretty firmly in the "physicians make more than almost every profession" camp, but a lot of pre-meds don't realize that the gap might not be as wide as they think.
 
I am sorry if I come across kind of rude but you seem to have a very "simpleton-like" view of graduate and professional education.

Nobody on this forum can tell you with any certainty which path is the most financially lucrative because honestly there are just too many variables to consider.
 
There are a lot of variables to consider. Two jobs may pay the same salary, and have a totally different time requirement. Do you consider the job with the lower time commitment to 'make more' because the equivalent hourly wage is higher?

If so, what if one job has a super high time commitment, but makes only a little more salary wise than one with a lower time commitment. Now the salary is higher at one job, but the equivalent hourly wage at the other is higher.

Just something to think about.

Anyway, to get to your question:
Becoming a physician can make a lot of money, so can striking it big in business. Which would make you more in the long run depends on how skilled you are. Being a physician is a secure job to live comfortably. Being a businessman is less secure, and can have more risk especially as you age. It all depends on your skill level, dedication, and how you value risk. Heck, if you have enough talent, you could start in medicine and end up a multimillionaire entrepreneur anyway.

Anyway, how do you feel about risk?
 
Drakeyboo said:
I am also interested in this question. There are definitely outliers out there, like NuttyEngDude mentioned one. But how many engineers actually get into google and make that much? And how many engineers are stuck at 60k jobs no matter how hard they work? How many people with MBA actually make 500k+ a year, and how many are stuck with the 80-100k a year? But doctors for sure make money. Jobs will always be there for physicians, and the compensation is good as well. The average family physician makes $180,000 a year in my city according to salary.com. That's just a family physician, but if you specialize, then you can make $200,000+ per year. I think neurologists make like $230k a year? Psychiatrists make around 200k a year, so I guess a lot of the regular specialties revolve around that 200k assuming you work full time. This does not include surgery, as surgeons can make a lot more, but have to work long hours. I would say that most specialized physicians make at least 150k starting salary right out of residency, and after just a few years it probably increases to 200k. A lot probably start at 200k right after residency, I would say.
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Streampaw go home.

Sidenote: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...o-years-to-continue-md.1050263/#post-14794106

You're out of control.
 
Microglia said:
There are a lot of variables to consider. Two jobs may pay the same salary, and have a totally different time requirement. Do you consider the job with the lower time commitment to 'make more' because the equivalent hourly wage is higher?

If so, what if one job has a super high time commitment, but makes only a little more salary wise than one with a lower time commitment. Now the salary is higher at one job, but the equivalent hourly wage at the other is higher.

Just something to think about.

Anyway, to get to your question:
Becoming a physician can make a lot of money, so can striking it big in business. Which would make you more in the long run depends on how skilled you are. Being a physician is a secure job to live comfortably. Being a businessman is less secure, and can have more risk especially as you age. It all depends on your skill level, dedication, and how you value risk. Heck, if you have enough talent, you could start in medicine and end up a multimillionaire entrepreneur anyway.

Anyway, how do you feel about risk?
Click to expand...
The thing is to start a business you need a fall back in case your business falls through, I would feel very uncomfortable starting a business with nothing but a USELESS bio degree. With an MBA from a top tier school I could get SOME job that pays 100-150k. Also the hours the average MBA works are far worse than SOME specialties in medicine. It would terrible to be a general practitioner, mediocre lifestyle and mediocre compensation for 7-9 years of schooling/residency.. Which is why I'm worried about the Caribbean since I hear Carib grads are discriminated against in getting residencies regardless of STEP scores.

And yes lifestyle is very important, probably more than compensation. If there was a job that would let me work 20 hrs a week and get 50k, I would take it.
 
You are under the assumption that a top tier MBA is within reach for you....if you got a sub 3.0 gpa and you've been working a crappy job for the last few years, there's a good chance it's out of reach.
 
markmark said:
Basically there are no good jobs anymore.
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if your definition of a "good" job is a job that's easily obtainable, stress free, and pays half a million $, yes, there are very few "good" jobs out there.
 
anytime this topic is brought up on sdn everyone likes to act like doctors don't make much money and if they cared about money they would go into business and be making 500k next year working 40 hours a week. this thread hasn't been too bad, but the reality is that going into health care is extremely profitable, and not that much of a time commitment.

i think the top med students would probably be successful in whatever they did, but for somebody around average stats/ intellgience for medical school, it is probably the best choice financially (except maybe dentistry). PA, NP, or AA are also great careers with less training and expense.
 
histidine said:
You are under the assumption that a top tier MBA is within reach for you....if you got a sub 3.0 gpa and you've been working a crappy job for the last few years, there's a good chance it's out of reach.
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Lol if you don't get a top tier MBA then its mostly a waste of money. If you read the OP, I said if I was going the MBA route I would retake my undergrad. Basically all options have me retaking my undergrad other than the Caribbean.

"Doing well" in business undergrad especially after having got the partying out my system, will be a joke.
 
Sumbody1245 said:
Lol if you don't get a top tier MBA then its mostly a waste of money. If you read the OP, I said if I was going the MBA route I would retake my undergrad. Basically all options have me retaking my undergrad other than the Caribbean.

"Doing well" in business undergrad especially after having got the partying out my system, will be a joke.
Click to expand...
pics or it didn't happen
 
Sumbody1245 said:
Lol if you don't get a top tier MBA then its mostly a waste of money. If you read the OP, I said if I was going the MBA route I would retake my undergrad. Basically all options have me retaking my undergrad other than the Caribbean.

"Doing well" in business undergrad especially after having got the partying out my system, will be a joke.
Click to expand...

I agree it's top 20 or nothing for MBA. You need a solid gpa ~3.5, a 700+ GMAT, and top work experience for several years (big 4, wall st, top consulting, fortune 500 etc). It will be an incredibly difficult path.
 
What should you do right now to make money? No loan debt, extra time for education or anything?

Start working construction, join a union, get experience, start running a crew, and then pull in 10-20k/month for literally sitting on your ass.
 
TheWeeIceMan said:
:hilarious:
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its not really that much time.

4 years of undergrad (same as most high paying jobs)
4 years of medical school
lets say 4 years of residency making ~$40k (don't know how accurate that is)
make 150k+++ the rest of your life.

so if you count graduation from ugrad as the start, you are really only sacrificing 4 years. residency salary is going to be a little bit less than somebody 4 years out would be making in business/engineering, but 4 years later you are going to be making more than double what they are.

where is the huge time commitment that everyone complains about? if your going into business you are going to go from ugrad to a job with hours and pay like residency, to maybe even less, and then get an MBA, and still not be making as much. the ceiling on your salary is a lot lot higher, but its no guarantee, and the lifestyle is going to be a lot worse.

basically what i am saying is no matter what you go into you can expect to spend about 10 years working hard and long hours for not a whole lot of money, and then the hours will start to get better and the pay will go up.

i'm not an expert on any of this so correct me if i'm wrong. if you can tell me an easier way to make as much money as a physician, working similar hours, and the same job security then let me know.
 
i hate these threads about money and what not. Face reality everyone, there is no easy money. Just because you are a doctor doesn't mean you are going to be rich. You might even be poor and miserable. Sure, it does increase your chances of being rich compared to someone with a MBA but its not like people will start giving you bills after you graduate. Also, with health care going to be falling into big corporations, things don't look bright.

If you want to be rich in this world, you have to take chances with your life. simple as that
 
I agree with thefritz. construction, electrical, plumbing, etc.....join a union & build a crew.
 
Wakadaka said:
its not really that much time.

4 years of undergrad (same as most high paying jobs)
4 years of medical school
lets say 4 years of residency making ~$40k (don't know how accurate that is)
make 150k+++ the rest of your life.

so if you count graduation from ugrad as the start, you are really only sacrificing 4 years. residency salary is going to be a little bit less than somebody 4 years out would be making in business/engineering, but 4 years later you are going to be making more than double what they are.

where is the huge time commitment that everyone complains about? if your going into business you are going to go from ugrad to a job with hours and pay like residency, to maybe even less, and then get an MBA, and still not be making as much. the ceiling on your salary is a lot lot higher, but its no guarantee, and the lifestyle is going to be a lot worse.

basically what i am saying is no matter what you go into you can expect to spend about 10 years working hard and long hours for not a whole lot of money, and then the hours will start to get better and the pay will go up.

i'm not an expert on any of this so correct me if i'm wrong. if you can tell me an easier way to make as much money as a physician, working similar hours, and the same job security then let me know.
Click to expand...

I never said there were easier ways to make money. I took issue with saying that the road to becoming a physician is "not really much of a time commitment." Medical school and residency/fellowship are extremely time intensive for almost everyone. For many people, the large time commitment doesn't stop after residency. Just because you can point to ibankers and MBB consultants as equally time intensive, doesn't mean that physicians don't make huge time sacrifices for their careers.
 
Zelda840 said:
I agree with thefritz. construction, electrical, plumbing, etc.....join a union & build a crew.
Click to expand...

chillinillinkillin007 said:
i hate these threads about money and what not. Face reality everyone, there is no easy money.
Click to expand...

Oh it's very easy money. You just have to be borderline criminal. I've watched contractors pull in $6k on a single day's job by totalling shafting some dude to fix a broken sewer pipe. These guys pull in hundreds of thousands a year, but it's the same deal everytime. They are lazy as **** and don't want to do any good work because they have no incentive to. So they do half-assed work for a few months, make 30 or 40 grand, get a bunch of people pissed at them, then skip town for 3 or 4 months, do a bunch of drugs, and when they're all broke again, go back and open up shop when things have settled down. They repeat this cycle, literally, their whole life.

I have watched this dozens of times from so many different contractors. It's remarkable. The reality is that a premed would never consider himself low enough to do this kind of work even though it can pay far, far better than any type of corporate job if you are a hard worker and diligent.
 
Rik1111 said:
This is what I'm referencing. http://qz.com/67304/i-just-finished-my-87-hour-work-week-and-have-230000-in-medical-school-debt/

My number could be off but the idea is right.


(In case you meant the gold vault thing)

scrooge-500x281.jpg
Click to expand...

Dude, I think that gastroenterologist had only been an attending for like a couple months when he wrote that.

Gas docs consistently make above 350k, and that's the low end, like just starting out.

I know of 3 gastroenterologists, two of them in their mid 40s making above 500k living REALLY comfortable lives. The other one has only been board certified for a couple years and is not living as comfortably as the other ones because he is trying to quickly pay-off his loans.

Basically, am just trying to say that there's definetly money to be made in medicine if you have the passion and love for a particular specialty, BUT you won't be seeing any of that money until about 10 years AFTER you start med school.
 
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thefritz said:
Oh it's very easy money. You just have to be borderline criminal. I've watched contractors pull in $6k on a single day's job by totalling shafting some dude to fix a broken sewer pipe. These guys pull in hundreds of thousands a year, but it's the same deal everytime. They are lazy as **** and don't want to do any good work because they have no incentive to. So they do half-assed work for a few months, make 30 or 40 grand, get a bunch of people pissed at them, then skip town for 3 or 4 months, do a bunch of drugs, and when they're all broke again, go back and open up shop when things have settled down. They repeat this cycle, literally, their whole life.

I have watched this dozens of times from so many different contractors. It's remarkable. The reality is that a premed would never consider himself low enough to do this kind of work even though it can pay far, far better than any type of corporate job if you are a hard worker and diligent.
Click to expand...

I disagree. Most small entrepreneurs are good hardworking people. And money don't just drop on them. There is a lot of competition and they have to offer a reasonable price especially when the pockets are tight. The biggest problem is that many of them have very poor money management skills and don't understand why it's a bad idea to by everything on credit.
 
Regardless of the dumb anti union debate (the AMA is a union by the way, and it's the reason doctors wages are high) an MBA is hardly a guarantee that you will be pulling down big guap.
 
You don't have the grades or the academic pedigree for investment banking, law, medicine.

There are no legal shortcuts to getting rich. Want a realistic chance of making good money? Go to the oilfields. Look into entry MWD/LWD jobs with big oilfield service companies like Baker Hughes or Halliburton. Work hard and take every opportunity to learn new skills and tools. After 5 years, transfer to an independent MWD company or find a company willing to train you as a directional driller. Independent MWDs can make $150k/yr, DDs can make $200-300k/yr. The hours and lifestyle are complete garbage, but if all you're looking for is money...
 
Just start a bank

You get some money and loan out $10 for every dollar you have, then charge everyone interest

You can't lose
 
histidine said:
I agree it's top 20 or nothing for MBA. You need a solid gpa ~3.5, a 700+ GMAT, and top work experience for several years (big 4, wall st, top consulting, fortune 500 etc). It will be an incredibly difficult path.
Click to expand...

I mostly agree, except for one thing. Yes, you need a great GMAT, but GPA is given a lot of wiggle room. The thing that gets absolutely zero wiggle room is top work experience. Better be working at a Fortune 500 while studying the GMAT in your rare nights off. I have close personal experience with this path and it's not pretty. I certainly don't envy it.
 
top 20? I don't have a ton of experience with MBA stuff, but I thought the whole "M7" thing was the cutoff for top tier.
 
Microglia said:
I mostly agree, except for one thing. Yes, you need a great GMAT, but GPA is given a lot of wiggle room. The thing that gets absolutely zero wiggle room is top work experience. Better be working at a Fortune 500 while studying the GMAT in your rare nights off. I have close personal experience with this path and it's not pretty. I certainly don't envy it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's true. I think a 3.5 is average, but the range is significant both ways. Also, at least for finance and consulting, pedigree matters. He's going to need a good GPA either way to get his foot into wall st, fortune 500, etc....or know some people in high places (though the fact that he's working a low paid job suggests otherwise).

TheWeeIceMan said:
top 20? I don't have a ton of experience with MBA stuff, but I thought the whole "M7" thing was the cutoff for top tier.
Click to expand...

I'd say the top 10 is "top tier," but all the schools in the top 20 list give very good returns on investment. Start looking further down the list and the salaries start dropping significantly.
 
circulus vitios said:
You don't have the grades or the academic pedigree for investment banking, law, medicine.

There are no legal shortcuts to getting rich. Want a realistic chance of making good money? Go to the oilfields. Look into entry MWD/LWD jobs with big oilfield service companies like Baker Hughes or Halliburton. Work hard and take every opportunity to learn new skills and tools. After 5 years, transfer to an independent MWD company or find a company willing to train you as a directional driller. Independent MWDs can make $150k/yr, DDs can make $200-300k/yr. The hours and lifestyle are complete garbage, but if all you're looking for is money...
Click to expand...
I have the grades and academic pedigree for the Caribbean! So hah!

Also, yes I do care about lifestyle, it was in the TL;DR
 
http://www.businessinsider.com/entry-level-engineers-out-earn-phds-2013-11
The glut of rapidly growing tech giants and startups in the Bay Area has created a talent crunch, particularly when it comes to computer engineering talent. As a result, salaries are getting pushed rapidly upwards, with the average computer engineer salary above $100,000in Silicon Valley.
When you add in bonuses and stock options, it's possible for an engineer in the Bay Area to earn in the six figures right out of school.

A computer science professor at Stanford told The New York Times that he had heard of at least one $160,000 offer for a graduate, and expected that there were larger numbers out there. One recruiter is placing entry-level grads with base salaries alone above $80,000. And big companies offering upwards of $100,000 for entry-level grads has forced smaller startups to offer bigger and bigger deals.

A signing bonus for computer engineers just five years out of school can be in the $60,000 range. These sorts of figures aren't typical, but they're increasingly common in Silicon Valley.

The result is that computer engineers in their 20s can potentially out-earn Ph.D.s and many other professionals in prestigious jobs, according to Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) data. For example, optometrists earn an average $94,000 a year, while math and computer science professors earn $72,000 a year and psychologists make $63,000.

That might be reason enough to change your major.
Click to expand...
 
areyounotentertaned said:
This is BS though. That entire industry is a bubble and the software engineering/IT community has no spine or willingness to advocate for itself. That bubble is already deflating and wages in that sector will be in freefall soon. By the time you were done with that education the gravy train will have left the station.
Click to expand...
I dont entirely disagree plus outsourcing is a major concern. But if OP is looking for some quick money, 2 years of non-general ed. coursework would get him there. Not sure about it already deflating since these articles are mentioning salaries on the rise.
 
baconshrimps said:
You need to read Forbes, not StudentDoctorNetwork.
Click to expand...


Snipped for quick info

http://www.forbes.com/sites/susanad...e-degrees-with-the-highest-starting-salaries/
The College Degrees With The Highest Starting Salaries
Click to expand...
Graduates in some majors like petroleum engineering are making close to six figures in their first jobs. According to NACE, that’s the top-paying bachelor’s degree with a salary of $96,200. The next two highest-paying majors are also engineering degrees: computer engineering at $70,300 and chemical engineering at $66,900.
.....
Petroleum Engineering $96,200
Computer Engineering $70,300
Chemical Engineering $66,900
Computer Science $64,100
Aerospace/Aeronautical/Astronautical Engineering $63,900
Click to expand...
 
NuttyEngDude said:
I dont entirely disagree plus outsourcing is a major concern. But if OP is looking for some quick money, 2 years of non-general ed. coursework would get him there. Not sure about it already deflating since these articles are mentioning salaries on the rise.
Click to expand...
The whole industry exists because all the free money the rich got post 2008 is needs to be parked somewhere and there was a cult around "startups" and IT/Cloud/BI/Lean/Big Data/SaaS type buzzwords at the same time the rich started majorly cleaning up in the equity markets. The party has to end some time and even the rich people who throw their money at the current crop of "venture Capitalist" MBA dittoheads can't convince themselves of this charade much longer. Doing the actual engineering and coding for these companies is so far down from the venture capitalist teat that you may as well not bother unless you're going to MIT or something.
 
areyounotentertaned said:
The whole industry exists because all the free money the rich got post 2008 is needs to be parked somewhere and there was a cult around "startups" and IT/Cloud/BI/Lean/Big Data/SaaS type buzzwords at the same time the rich started majorly cleaning up in the equity markets. The party has to end some time and even the rich people who throw their money at the current crop of "venture Capitalist" MBA dittoheads can't convince themselves of this charade much longer. Doing the actual engineering and coding for these companies is so far down from the venture capitalist teat that you may as well not bother unless you're going to MIT or something.
Click to expand...

Not true, you will be paid well regardless. The thing about these bubbles is that when they burst, the pay remains the same, but the jobs aren't increasing like before, the industry doesn't die.

OP doesn't care about actual engineering or coding, but assuming that is what he is doing, even if you're getting "average" starting salary of ~$70k, it's good money for the amount of schooling you need. Even so, the industry is larger than the "buzzwords of the day."



With the parameters the OP has given:
Sumbody1245 said:
With the assumption that I have the capability to do all the options I am listing. I never really wanted to be a doctor, graduated with a sub 3.0 GPA and have been working for the past few years barely making anything.

I don't want to waste any more time. Not another year. Which option will make me the most money the fastest? TL;DR What makes most sense for me now if all I care about is compensation/lifestyle and the time it takes to get there?
Click to expand...

I think Engineering is a good thing to look into.
 
NuttyEngDude said:
Not true, you will be paid well regardless. The thing about these bubbles is that when they burst, the pay remains the same, but the jobs aren't increasing like before, the industry doesn't die.

OP doesn't care about actual engineering or coding, but assuming that is what he is doing, even if you're getting "average" starting salary of ~$70k, it's good money for the amount of schooling you need. Even so, the industry is larger than the "buzzwords of the day."



With the parameters the OP has given:


I think Engineering is a good thing to look into.
Click to expand...


Not really, the pay does go lower, There are way more people copmpeteing for way, way fewer jobs. Whitness all of the IBM greybeards who've been replaced by people making half their salary. And the IT industry has no willingness to advocate for itself.. Instead of "starting" at 70K you will be looking at topping out at 70K. which is barely a livable wage at this point.
 
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