What to do now? (Post bachelor student advice question)

[zoner]

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Hi everyone

I need an advice on what to do from now on.

I am 33, majored in humanities with 3.2 GPA from Wesleyan University, CT. I have no science nor math back ground except that I've been taking Trig., Precal. and Intro to Chem. at San Diego City College (CC) with grade all 'A's .

I finally decided on attending CSULB (over CSUN) starting fall of this year. CSULB does not have a formal Post Bacc program, but they were gracious enough to let me in as a 2nd bachelor and even gave me a grant to cover the tuition. I will only be there for 3 years though: first two years doing my premed prerequisites and taking more advanced classes during the gliding year.

My med school hope is to stay in California no matter what. UCLA, UCSF, Stanford etc...


So, my main questions are, what do I do now?

1) what is the lowest GPA I can get away with in premed prerequisite classes? if my already undergrad GPA is too low, should I take a lot more classes to raise my GPA?

2) how many hours and months of volunteer experiences do I actually need to have before actually applying to med school? Also, where and exactly what kind of volunteer experiences are most beneficial? Also when should I start them?

2.5) I have been a massage therapist / muscle therapist and currently have my own practice. Would this at all benefit my med school application?

3) Should I have more volunteer experience or should I take more classes to further raise my GPA?

3) same question as #2, but what about when it comes to research?




I talked to an Adviser at CSUN and this is how she broke down for me.

FALL '09
1) Chem I (2) Bio I (3) Cal I -for natural science major-

SPRING '10
1) Chem II (2) Bio II (3) Cal II -for natural science major-

SUMMER '10
1) Org. Chem I & II

FALL '10
1) BioChem (2) Phy I (3) Statistics

SPRING '11
1) Mcat Preparation (2) Phy II (3) English Lit. (4) English Comp.

SUMMER '11, take MCAT

6/1/11 ish, apply to AMCAS

FALL '12
--MED SCHOOL-- (if everything goes right)



What do you guys all think about this schedule? any other recommendation? comments or feedback?

Thanks in advance

 

[witness23]

do you really need a 2nd major? for your grant? if you didn't major, will you have to pay? is there a pre-health committee that can write a packet letter for you?

to answer your questions

1. aim for a 4.0, no point in asking for a low bar
2. start volunteering now. hospital. maybe a nursing unit or something. but do something. now. 1x a week, 4 hours a day. until you get into medical school
2.5. sure, it won't hurt. present it well!
3. gpa is a bigger priority, but you can take your pre-reqs, volunteer, and do research. it shouldn't be that bad (assuming you don't have a family or a ft job). you can do the research over the summer. priority should be, gpa, clinical volunteering/shadowing, research

you don't need all the math courses. even though i was math dualie and its fun, i'd just recommend taking the 2 easiest possible courses (don't do 3 unless its to raise ur bcmp). and i'd spread out the english courses as well.

 

[pietachok]

1) Make it your goal to get the highest GPA you can. That's all there is to that. It's hard to get into med school, but especially hard w/ a GPA below 3.5. Assuming you took a normal courseload as an undergrad, if you get straight A's from now on, you're really only going to end up a scooch above a 3.4.

2) 200+ volunteer hours is suggested by many post-bacc programs. Volunteer work should have a clinical component w/ patient interaction of some sort.

2.5) Probably--in general schools like to see non-traditional applicants who have been successful in another path. It demonstrates commitment/ambition, etc.

3) Both.

4) It is good to do research if you plan to apply to places like Stanford and UCSF. If you were younger, I would say you didn't have any chance at those schools due to your UG GPA, but being such a non-traditional applicant can give some surprising results when your postbacc work shows strong improvement. You need to be prepared to apply outside of CA, however, or apply to the D.O. schools in CA, too w/ your GPA. Unfortunately the CA schools are among the most selective, and w/ a ~3.4ish GPA, you're gambling that they think your other experiences are unique. (I am a non-trad w/ a 3.45 GPA and had to apply 3 years to get in ANYWHERE).

W/ regards to the schedule:
1) I would take G-Chem over THIS summer, not Orgo over next summer. Orgo is much harder to cram into one summer b/c you have to memorize so many reactions on top of learning concepts, which is something you don't have to do in G-Chem.

2) Why are they recommending you take English classes? If you were a humanities major you do not need to do that, even though you've been out of school for many years. You can double check on the non-trad forum, but I haven't heard of anyone being denied b/c of the "expiration" of their English req's...I'm a non-trad, and I never even took an "English" course. Every school I applied to was willing to consider my foreign lit coursework (in translation) as "English."

3) It is highly recommended that you take a full courseload as a postbacc if you've been out of school for a long time or originally were not in the sciences. One of the things adcoms are looking at besides whether or not you have your pre-reqs is whether or not you can handle an intensive science-heavy courseload. Do 3 courses + labs constitute a full courseload at CSULB? Generally a full courseload would be ~16 credits a semester. If you feel ok doing it you could take non-calculus-based physics the same year you take bio. That would pose a problem for some students but not for others. If you are working part-time or doing a significant # of hours of research/volunteer work, it would be more than acceptable to only take 3 courses. If you want to add a 4th course but don't want to move Physics into that year, you can add something that is medically relevant but a non-science course (e.g. something related to public health).

Good Luck!

 

[BJPENNSTATE]

you're very dedicated...i sure wouldnt want to start medical school when i turn 36.

my advice would take as many science courses as possible and get ur gpa from 3.2 to 3.6 to be competitive in CALI and get at least a 33 on ur MCAT. best wishes to u (i cant imagine being 33 years old and juggle taking college courses, working to support a family, study for the mcat's, and volunteering at a clinic.

 

[Druzie]

1) 4.0 - but be realistic. With a courseload like that in addition to volunteering and a job (I assume you'll continue working to supplement your grant) , it's going to be tough. You may not be able to afford setting your sights so narrowly on California.

2) As much as possible. Continuity is positively looked upon, so if you go once a week somewhere, try to stick with it for at least a year. There are two basic experiences you need - to interact with patients yourself and to observe physicians doing their jobs. You could get these two things through non-volunteering avenues (i.e. clinical research plus shadowing). In that case, volunteering regularly in a non-medical setting should suffice.

2.5) Yes.

3) Yes.

4) Someone already said this, but I'll emphasize. If you're really so set on those top-tier California programs, research will help you *a lot.*

This is what I would recommend:

FALL '09
1) Chem I (2) Bio I (3) Phy I

SPRING '10
1) Chem II (2) Bio II (3) Phy II

SUMMER '10
1) Calc I & II (if you must) (2) English Lit. (if you must)

FALL '10
1) BioChem (2) Orgo I (3) Statistics

SPRING '11
1) Mcat Preparation (2) Orgo II (3) English Comp. (if you must)

SUMMER '11, take MCAT

6/1/11 ish, apply to AMCAS

FALL '12
--MED SCHOOL-- (if everything goes right)

My reasoning:
This would suit me, personally, better. There is less and less orgo on the MCAT these days, so if you take a spring MCAT you should be okay, whereas you need to have the physics under your belt beforehand. Plus, some people (especially those with little science background) really struggle with physics, so I would not advise taking it and orgo concurrently.

If you have to get the second bachelor degree, then take the requirements, like Calculus. As for the English courses, 1) I suppose they're requirements for the bachelor also, 2) as a former humanities major, they'd probably be a good way to boost your GPA. However, if there are other, more exciting classes that fulfill these requirements, I would recommend those. Personally, if I were an adcom and saw a former humanities major retake basic English Lit and Comp, I'd be skeptical.

Finally, I think the term of your MCAT prep should not be so heavy. Think of MCAT prep as another course.



Feel free to disagree with me, people.

 

[TexasPhysician]

Really try to maximize gpa and MCAT. Cali schools are among the toughest for anyone! Good luck!

 

[pietachok]

This is what I would recommend:

FALL '09
1) Chem I (2) Bio I (3) Phy I

SPRING '10
1) Chem II (2) Bio II (3) Phy II

SUMMER '10
1) Calc I & II (if you must) (2) English Lit. (if you must)

FALL '10
1) BioChem (2) Orgo I (3) Statistics

SPRING '11
1) Mcat Preparation (2) Orgo II (3) English Comp. (if you must)

SUMMER '11, take MCAT

6/1/11 ish, apply to AMCAS

FALL '12
--MED SCHOOL-- (if everything goes right)

Finally, I think the term of your MCAT prep should not be so heavy. Think of MCAT prep as another course.



Feel free to disagree with me, people.

I think this schedule looks somewhat better, also, but I wouldn't wait so late to take Calculus, IF you have any questions about your ability to get a decent grade in the course. I have known several non-trads who honestly couldn't pass calculus, and it became a deal breaker for them that caused them to wholly re-think their post-bacc program and med school ambitions. I don't want to be discouraging, b/c it's a small fraction of individuals who find calc to be *that* difficult (usually it's the most benign of the pre-reqs), but if you aren't "a math person" I don't recommend taking it in the summer or taking it AFTER you've worked your butt off completing a year of other pre-req's. It can also be useful to have it before Physics even if you aren't taking calculus based physics.

 

[zoner]

Thanks everyone to who replied to my post, I really really appreciate all your advice and care.

Currently, at age 33, I feel like I had a blast past 10 years. I did so many different things, different field of work, been in a long term serious relationship and went through life and death situation, and I have no ounce of " I have not lived my life" in me. However, that void is filled with complete dedication to my new chosen path of going into medicine. Also, I am not planning on having a family.



To respond to some of the questions and also to raise some more questions...

1) I love math and I would actually like to study up to Calculus III if I could. Does it look better if I take Calculus for natural science major or just take regular cal. for math majors. Natural Science Math is 3 units and for the math major calculus is 5 units.

2) I would probably be taking upper level English Lit and Comp. According to that adviser, English classes had to be taken within 5 five years prior to applying to med school.

3) No, I don't have to get my 2nd bachelor degree and tuition will still be free.

4) I heard that in general, its not a good idea to take three lab classes per semester. At CSULB, anything above 12 units is considered as full time student.

5) Does it look better if I take Calculus based Physics instead of non calculus based?


So, here is my ultimate question. My undergrad. GPA was based on some weird classes I took at Wesleyan Univ. Lot of art, film history, Chinese language, and not one course in science nor math. Also, I never ever cared about what grade I got. I only saw it recently when I needed it to apply to CSULB. So would med school really take a close look at my GPA that I earned 10 years ago? I have changed so much since those punk rebellious days of my youth!

So in order to be competitive for Cali med school, exactly how many more 'A's do I need. I am way willing to take as many classes I need to do this.

 

[TexasPhysician]

I can't help with all of your questions because I'm wasn't a non-traditional applicant.

I do know that you are thinking way too hard about all of this. Medical schools don't have time to scrutinize every class you take. If you are debating between 2 courses, choose the one most likely to get you an A. Don't risk anything. Medical schools will check off that you have the requirements and look at your gpa. Cal based physics, natural blah blah math, english whatever.....it doesn't matter as long as you meet the requirements. Medical schools are basically in a pissing contest to see who can have the students with the highest gpa's and MCAT's.....for the most part.....obviously there are some exceptions to the rule.

 

[Druzie]

If you are debating between 2 courses, choose the one most likely to get you an A.

1) If you're absolutely certain you can ace Calc for math majors, then take it. Since it's more units, it will help your GPA more. I don't think it will "look better" in any other sense.

4) I apologize. At some schools, labs are separate courses and do not have to be taken concurrently with lecture. I assumed this might be the case at CSULB. To revise my suggested schedule, I would switch Calculus (take it first year) and Physics (take it in the summer with lab).

5) I don't think it makes a difference as long as you do well. I did not take calc-based physics.

I have not been out of school as long as you, so I don't know how much your old ugrad GPA will count. Maybe someone else can weigh in here...

Have you checked out the non-trad forum?

 

[MUBiomed]

Thanks everyone to who replied to my post, I really really appreciate all your advice and care.

Currently, at age 33, I feel like I had a blast past 10 years. I did so many different things, different field of work, been in a long term serious relationship and went through life and death situation, and I have no ounce of " I have not lived my life" in me. However, that void is filled with complete dedication to my new chosen path of going into medicine. Also, I am not planning on having a family.



To respond to some of the questions and also to raise some more questions...

1) I love math and I would actually like to study up to Calculus III if I could. Does it look better if I take Calculus for natural science major or just take regular cal. for math majors. Natural Science Math is 3 units and for the math major calculus is 5 units.

2) I would probably be taking upper level English Lit and Comp. According to that adviser, English classes had to be taken within 5 five years prior to applying to med school.

3) No, I don't have to get my 2nd bachelor degree and tuition will still be free.

4) I heard that in general, its not a good idea to take three lab classes per semester. At CSULB, anything above 12 units is considered as full time student.

5) Does it look better if I take Calculus based Physics instead of non calculus based?


So, here is my ultimate question. My undergrad. GPA was based on some weird classes I took at Wesleyan Univ. Lot of art, film history, Chinese language, and not one course in science nor math. Also, I never ever cared about what grade I got. I only saw it recently when I needed it to apply to CSULB. So would med school really take a close look at my GPA that I earned 10 years ago? I have changed so much since those punk rebellious days of my youth!

So in order to be competitive for Cali med school, exactly how many more 'A's do I need. I am way willing to take as many classes I need to do this.

It is hard for me to answer a lot of those questions as I was a more traditional applicant, but as far as the calc-based physics goes I never encountered any questions during interviews relating to my own non-calc based physics. While it may look slightly better if you had the calc one I am sure you can do something better with your time that will aid your app more than the added studying required for calc vs non-calc physics classes. Best of luck btw....