What to do

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When in the app cycle did you apply (ie June? Nov?) Where did you apply? How many interviews did you have?

If you had a lot of interviews, then you need more interviewing practice. If you didn't get a lot of interviews (which is hard to imagine, given your numbers), then there is something in your app somewhere throwing up a red flag. And no, being white is not one of them. You seem to have some kind of grudge. Maybe that is coming across.

Of course, the most likely situation (given your posting history) is that you are either a troll, someone with a chip on his shoulder, or both.

Just my opinion.

-X
 
your ECs are a bit weak and plus you're a frat boy and we all know the stereotypes of a frat guy. you should just forget about med school and play football.
 
maybe some clinical experience...

and a fraternity can only be a downside if you include it on your application.
 
Your volunteer experience is a bit short in duration--see if you can spend this next year getting involved in something ongoing, such as weekly volunteering at a hospice. This will also give you something new to write about in your personal statement. And take an honest look, along with people you trust to tell you the bald truth, at those communication skills and the way you present yourself. Sometimes if someone won't give you a specific thing to improve on next year's application, it's that you came across as less than delightful in some way in your interview. Since there's no good way to say, "we just plain didn't like you and so we admitted some equally qualified people we liked better," you'll hear that there were many qualified applicants, blah-blah-blah.

Some things to watch out for: a "know-it-all" attitude, being less than perfectly polite to EVERY BREATHING PERSON you meet, forgetting that you're "on" all day long at the interview, not just during the interview, etc.

I think it's a waste of time and energy to speculate on the reasons beyond your control why someone else got admitted when you didn't. You'll never know if it's true and you can't do anything about it, anyway. Since you can't change your race, sex, or frat boy history, work on making the rest of your application the best it can possibly be. If you were waitlisted or rejected at any more schools, try to ask very proactive questions about your status, things like, "If I only work on improving ONE THING for next year's application, what should it be?" "If you could give all pre-med students blanket advice, what would it be?" "I was wondering about this or that area of my application, and thinking of doing Z to improve it. Do you think that's a good way to be spending my energies?" This takes the admissions folks out of the realm of defending their decision and into a part of your team, helping to make you a good potential student.

Good luck, and don't let yourself get bitter!
 
well you are not a minority so get over yourself and get it together!! minorities get rejected to you know. that was a really stupid thing to say. maybe you came across as arrogant in the interviews, huh?
 
Thank you guys all for the help, and keep it coming if you have more.

To answer some of your questions I didnt have a chip on my shoulder going into the application process, but the quotas and diversity "problems" these med schools are trying to fix are very evident in their classes and as a white male I do feel discriminated against.

I am in a frat, but I was one of the leaders in my fraternity. I was not just some drunk sex crazed lunatic.

I agree in that I need some EC's on a more weekly basis, and this year I am planning on getting involved full time doing clinical research and volunteering at my local hospital on a weekly basis. Also I have been doctor shadowing this summer already.

Finally I got only 3 interviews, 2 waitlists and all but one interivew seemed to go extremely well. I was very suprised not to get into one of my waitlist schools becuase my interviews very definetly great.

I dont have any red flags from talking to peers, admissions people, my recommenders, and teachers. I hate to say this but I feel I diserve I spot in a med school and I feel it is unfortunate I will probably have to reapply. My grades and scores and everything else leads me to believe I earned this, and I know my application is far from perfect, but I still am dissatisfied. Thanks everyone for responding. Im a little down right now, and any quality feedback is good.
 
NICEWHITEKID said:
Thank you guys all for the help, and keep it coming if you have more.

To answer some of your questions I didnt have a chip on my shoulder going into the application process, but the quotas and diversity "problems" these med schools are trying to fix are very evident in their classes and as a white male I do feel discriminated against.

I am in a frat, but I was one of the leaders in my fraternity. I was not just some drunk sex crazed lunatic.

I agree in that I need some EC's on a more weekly basis, and this year I am planning on getting involved full time doing clinical research and volunteering at my local hospital on a weekly basis. Also I have been doctor shadowing this summer already.

Finally I got only 3 interviews, 2 waitlists and all but one interivew seemed to go extremely well. I was very suprised not to get into one of my waitlist schools becuase my interviews very definetly great.

I dont have any red flags from talking to peers, admissions people, my recommenders, and teachers. I hate to say this but I feel I diserve I spot in a med school and I feel it is unfortunate I will probably have to reapply. My grades and scores and everything else leads me to believe I earned this, and I know my application is far from perfect, but I still am dissatisfied. Thanks everyone for responding. Im a little down right now, and any quality feedback is good.
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Well, maybe the problem is you seem to have an attitude of deserving to be there and that might have rubbed people the wrong way. Also, as a rule of thumb if you are participating in an interview and it seems to be going a bit too smoothly, or seems too easy it may be that the interviewer is not very interested in you. Generally, the more challenging the interview the more interested the interviewer is in what you have to say; hence the difficult and at times uncomfortable questions. Or maybe your very subtle racism and assumed superiority to minority applicants came through and they decided that you are not med school material. I can't see why a mature individual will sit around blaming others for their problems. Plus if you think adcoms are incapable of picking qualified applicants maybe you should look into another profession. I know this is harsh, but your comments concerning minorities were extremely insensitive.
 
I am going to agree with the other posters about your attitude. It might be the problem. But we don't really know you, so...

One more thing to think about is your range of schools and how many you applied to.
 
Being in a social fraternity can be a positive EC. I'd emphasize the fact that you were in a leadership position. ALso, most greek organizations (even socal ones) get involved in some sort of community service, which you should also emphasize. Best of all, being in a club (in this case a frat) shows that you have social skills.

As for not getting in this time around, try not to think of it as a race issue. There is always room for improvement, even if you think you were a *qualified* applicant. I agree with the other posters to get more clinical exp. Your GPA and MCAT are great. The rest of your app now depends on activities that show your softer, more sensitive side. Try making an appointment with a career counselor to practice your interviewing skills and to help identify any mannerisms that might put off adcoms.

Cheer up! You have already accomplished the hard part (mcat/gpa)
 
There could be many reasons that you did not get in this past year, but being a white male is not one of them. You have above averages stats for accepted "white guys" at med school. That means there are plenty of 'white guys' who got into med school this past year with stats lower than yours. Some minorities are accepted to med school with lower stats. They did not keep you out or take your spot. If anyone should have a gripe about this it would be non-URM applicants with borderline applications. These are the people that may 'lose' a seat because they are not URMs.

I have a big issue with people who say someone 'took' their seat. You may have worked very hard, but no one is owed a seat in med school. There are many factors considered in the admission process and the only people whose opinion about whether or not you belong in med school matters are those who are on the admission committee.

I understand this result was not what you expected this year, but move forward from here and take a hard look at your whole application.

Some suggestions:

How many schools did you apply to?
Did you apply to a wide range of schools or just highly ranked ones?
When did you apply? Was your application late?

It sounds like your ECs and clinical experience were a bit sparse. Your plans now to fix this sound great.

Reread your personal statement. Have some other people read it and ask them to be brutally honest. There are plenty of people here on SDN that will read you PS if you ask. Having a couple of people read it anonymously can give you feedback your friends and family may hesitate to give.

Have you seen you LORs? Although they are confidential sometimes the writer gives you a copy anyway. Did anyone at your interviews mention that your letters were very good? I would call and talk to some of the people that wrote your letters. Tell them you didn't get in this year and ask them if they have any suggestions for you based on what they know from other former students that have been accepted. If the
letter writer knows you well, they may give you some good advice on areas you could strengthen your application. Perhaps they will offer to rewrite your letter.

Call the admission office at the schools you interviewed at and ask for a phone meeting to discuss your application and ask what they think is the reason you were not accepted. They can be your best source of information on what you need to improve in your app.

Good luck.
 
I think you are all hearing me wrong.

I am not saying I did not get in becuase I am white. I am just saying that I believe if I were a minority I would have gotten in. I believe minority students are unfairly given an advantage applying. Now dont get me wrong if someone (minority or not) had a hard upbringing and worked through it I believe they deserve extra help. HOwever I do not believe this help should be given based soley on race. I dont really know why the word diversity seems to mean non white, but apparently it does and some of you have have hinted I am a racist are exactly what I mean. HOw does questioning the system or feeling discriminated against make me a racist. That is ludacris and it is so easy for you all to point fingers. I thank the people that responded and wanted to help me figure things out because this is not easy. I am a good person and the people who are writing mean statements can kiss off.
 
Hey i hear you man, when you do not get in to any school, everyone assumes that you are doing something wrong, or have something wrong with your application that warrants it.

No one wants to believe that a qualified candidate with a genuinely good personality and good numbers would not get in, it simply goes against logic, but its the truth. Sometimes, there can be nothing wrong with your app ,and you can have done every little thing right to get into the school and still not get in. It happens, this process is very random. And by random i mean RANDOM, illogical, not that they are looking for "the right personality" or "the right fit" or whatever some people hide behind.

And i do agree with you that if you were a minority you would have gotten into several schools no problem. It is the 32/white/male combo that makes you not so desirable. Think about it, the average is a 30, your 32 will allow someone with a 28 to enter. I personally know many minorities who got in with around a 26, so they are looking for the white males to have ridiculous scores to cancel out those minorities given preference. Not to say that there arent minorities out there with 36's, but just by the sheer fact that there are more minorities being admitted to schools by preference, their number have to drop, and nonminorities have to make up the difference in scores.

I would make sure that you are applying from a state that has a lot of open seats at your state schools, and a lot of private schools that give preference to instate applicants. Also, it might not hurt to do something like working with kids or in a hospital or something to show your softer side. Apply early, and too a lot of schools, with a 32 you should be getting more than 3 interviews.

Good luck and keep in mind that the results of this process are definitely not always fair, or the be all end all of your life.
 
You seem like a very good candidate. But if it were to an outsider u seem like just another typical average white male with average stats. Meaning yer competitive but u kinda blend in. Nothing about u stands out.
U have a competitve GPA, good MCAT sure, but so do the other applicants. What about u makes u special? What did u do that makes u stand out to the admissions committe that says u are unique? And being a minority might account for that fact, but I doubt it counts for all. Yer upset right now...I wouldn't hold a grudge against the quota schools have to meet concerning minorities.
People like to see a person whose either overcome adverse experiences to get where they are now, have an exteremely high GPA, or some unique volunteering experiences. Do u have that?
If not u are just another qualified student against some stiff competition. Maybe work on yer EC's. And call the admissions people as to what u can do to improve yer application. They should be helpful to u. Good Luck!
 
medtechv79 said:
...typical average white male with average stats. Meaning yer competitive but u kinda blend in. Nothing about u stands out....
Click to expand...



Uh...the last time I checked, 32 was a pretty damn good score....and how many dual majors are applying to med school....

Hey Med...if you think 32 is a "average stat," I would love to see what you consider an "above average" stat.... 🙄 🙄
 
JayMiranti said:
And i do agree with you that if you were a minority you would have gotten into several schools no problem. It is the 32/white/male combo that makes you not so desirable. Think about it, the average is a 30, your 32 will allow someone with a 28 to enter. I personally know many minorities who got in with around a 26, so they are looking for the white males to have ridiculous scores to cancel out those minorities given preference. Not to say that there arent minorities out there with 36's, but just by the sheer fact that there are more minorities being admitted to schools by preference, their number have to drop, and nonminorities have to make up the difference in scores. .
Click to expand...


Wow, the word stunned hardly begins to describe my feelings right now 😱 . Goodness, you are way ahead of your time... "They are looking for white males to have ridiculous scores to cancel out those minorities given preference." As a matter of fact I know a couple of white men who got into med school with sub 30 scores who the heck is going to cancel out their scores. Oh, and what about the non-URM's who posted their stats on the thread about giving hope to applicant's with sub 30 scores who will cancel out their scores. All I can say is that I for one am glad white men are so much more intelligent than the rest of us and can make up for our inadequacies.
 
Icarus05 said:
Wow, the word stunned hardly begins to describe my feelings right now 😱 . Goodness, you are way ahead of your time... "They are looking for white males to have ridiculous scores to cancel out those minorities given preference." As a matter of fact I know a couple of white men who got into med school with sub 30 scores who the heck is going to cancel out their scores. Oh, and what about the non-URM's who posted their stats on the thread about giving hope to applicant's with sub 30 scores who will cancel out their scores. All I can say is that I for one am glad white men are so much more intelligent than the rest of us and can make up for our inadequacies.
Click to expand...
:laugh: 👍
 
Dont associate test scores with genuine intelligence.

The non-URM with a sub 30 mcat who gets in is the VAST minority, but yet is does happen, we all know a couple people out of the tens of thousands applying.

And the guys in the sub-30 forum who arent URMs wont get in for the most part.
 
JayMiranti said:
Dont associate test scores with genuine intelligence.

The non-URM with a sub 30 mcat who gets in is the VAST minority, but yet is does happen, we all know a couple people out of the tens of thousands applying.

And the guys in the sub-30 forum who arent URMs wont get in for the most part.
Click to expand...
You're probably a subpar white applicant who has applied to only US allopathic schools but got rejected 3 or more times.

Take the stick out of your bottom and apply to caribbean schools as well as osteopathic schools so you don't have to reapply and attack people because you're bitter.
 
Keep the hope up - people do get accepted as late as august.

But please don't play the race card... Brooding over this doesn't help your application any - only makes you depressed and angry. (It's like saying "if I were 6'5'' and could bench 300 lbs, I could have a shot at playing college football". But what's the point?)
 
i havent attacked anyone
and no one is brooding or angry or playing the race card we are just talking about what is going on in the process
 
Luck said:
You're probably a subpar white applicant who has applied to only US allopathic schools but got rejected 3 or more times.

Take the stick out of your bottom and apply to caribbean schools as well as osteopathic schools so you don't have to reapply and attack people because you're bitter.
Click to expand...

Jay, aren't you going to med school or will be soon .... where?
 
JayMiranti said:
i havent attacked anyone
and no one is brooding or angry or playing the race card we are just talking about what is going on in the process
Click to expand...

sorry if my previous comment sounded "offensive," but i just hope that people don't get hang up on this stuff - a situation which may be real or imagined.

i'm a minority applicant (mcat 37, undergrad ivy league school, 2 years of basic research, 1 yr full time in primary care clinic). below is a list of schools i got rejected from: upenn, u of missouri at columbia, cornell, medical college of TN. suprising in a way, isn't it? the application is crapshoot for everyone - don't feel singled out just because one isn't urm.
 
to the guy above me, where did you end up going?

As for me I am not applying again, I've changed my mind and decided to go dentistry. I am currently studying for the DAT. I think the carribean/Do is a good route, but I just wanted to go dentistry, im into it and its in my fam.

peace everyone
 
medlaw-Oh I think 32 is a very good MCAT score...but I'm sure there are a bunch of applicants that have that or even higher. All I'm saying is just because yer qualified does not mean u will get in.
I am interested in vet school....admissions committee state even if yer qualified does not mean u get in. Med school are very competitive. It probably is just a random process...the admissions thing. Ihave no idea, that is just my opinion. I still think he could work on beefing up his app with something unique is all I'm saying....
 
Thanks everyone. I will keep my hopes up and reapply again this year. Good luck to all of you. I think Im goingto spend thisnext year working in a hospital or doing clinical research. Hopefully this will work better.
 
pureofheart said:
Keep the hope up - people do get accepted as late as august.

But please don't play the race card... Brooding over this doesn't help your application any - only makes you depressed and angry. (It's like saying "if I were 6'5'' and could bench 300 lbs, I could have a shot at playing college football". But what's the point?)
Click to expand...
I agree, some of these comments sound like they stem from being bitter -- because they are way out of line. Minorities are so underrepresented at medical schools, so that would mean even if schools had so-called quotas, every non-URM has a greater chance of getting a spot than a URM. But I digress.

Whitey, you should look at the following:
-more clinical and volunteer activities, otherwise I would not be convinced you know what you are getting into. Also, if you are really committed to serving others it would be reflected in your service activities.
-applying to a broader range of schools. Your comment about "deserving to get into med school" suggests to me you applied to a narrow range.
-applying early.
-practice being humble. Yes, I know, you worked hard and it doesn't seem fair. But reading the posts on SDN always makes me think "wow, these people are amazing".

best,
~sunflower
 
sunflower79 said:
I agree, some of these comments sound like they stem from being bitter -- because they are way out of line. Minorities are so underrepresented at medical schools, so that would mean even if schools had so-called quotas, every non-URM has a greater chance of getting a spot than a URM. But I digress.
Click to expand...

I dont know about that logic. There are less minorities in the population overall, "minorities". You have to talk about proportions represented.

But anyway, You know sometimes there CAN be something genuinely wrong with the app process, or someone who was genuinely qualified, yet did not get in, and they have a right to harp about it this is a very extreme process.

Any rhetoric from applicants who were not admitted about issues they have with the system does not necessarily stem from them being "bitter" and "angry". We have the right to talk amongst ourselves about not getting admitted, and not be "out of line". Nothing that anyone said was "out of line". Dont be so dramatic.

I have seen lots of blog sites and this pre-med zone inparticular is filled with the most jugmental, war-mongering, dramatic posters I have ever seen. Try seeing things from all sides, and respecting what each poster has to say, without this standard response: "OMG that is so wrong, you are so wrong"
YOU are becoming a DR.
Personal insult. Googly eyes.
Put some logic in there, start a real argument that heads somewhere and is not personal or counterproductive to the whole purpose of this site. "Out of line" geesh.

Look at sites like livejournal.com or gamingage.com(yeah im a dork). There is a whole world of happier/funnier posters out there for the most part. peace out
 
NICEWHITEKID said:
I never write on SDN but I felt I had to. I graduated dual degree 3.79 Molecular Biology and Biochemistry from a very good state university. I did 1 and 1/2 years of research, ive been told I have great letters, and I did 2, 2 week long volunteering projects last summer. I got a 32 on my MCAT. I am only waitlisted at two places. What should I do to improve next year. What else ddo they want from me. I am very upset about this process because I feel I slipped through the cracks and I think part of it is becasue I am white. I strongly believe if I were a minority I would have been accepted to several schools. What do some of you guys think?
I went to my school were I got rejected when they made the waitlist and they told me there is nothing wrong, only that there are lots of very qualified appplicants out there. I am a good communicator.

My only down sides are I was in a fraternity, I am white and I am a guy.
Do you think I will get in if I reappply, and what should I do in the offseason?
Thanks

Whitey
Click to expand...

I don't know if you knew this but apparently most people who apply to medical school ARE white 😱 Shocking I know. That means you had the same chance as most of the people applying. Your stats were fine so the problem either was you applied over your head and had no safety schools, or you are a terrible interviewer. Work on these three things
1) Use some filler to fill in that chip on your shoulder.
2) Figure out why you didn't wow them in the interviews
3) Perhaps a stronger personal statement.

You should work during the offseason.
 
I'm really surprised you didn't get in. Did you apply early or late? If you wait to apply- it really decreases your chances of getting accepted as there are less slots to compete for.
You have good grades and MCAT scores- hopefully you got your application in early this year. I agree that you should do some long term volunteering once a week this year. Also, talk with a medical school advisor- I called several medical schools and they give you "insider" advice.
Cheer up- I'm sure you'll get accepted this year- don't second guess yourself or wonder why- just keep positive.
 
Any rhetoric from applicants who were not admitted about issues they have with the system does not necessarily stem from them being "bitter" and "angry". We have the right to talk amongst ourselves about not getting admitted, and not be "out of line". Nothing that anyone said was "out of line". Dont be so dramatic.
Click to expand...
You have the right to complain about the system, and I have the right to say that your complaints are not justified. I don't think that if the OP were a URM he would get admitted. Like the OP said, diversity is more than just race. If he spent a year in Africa or something, that would add some diversity to the class too.

Earlier I said non-URMs have a greater chance proportionally than URMs of being accepted, just by statistics alone. In 2001, URMs accounted for about 23% of the US population, but only 11% of med school matriculants. (JJ Cohen, JAMA. 2003;289:1143-1149. btw he's the AAMC president.)

I agree, the admissions process can seem unfair sometimes. "Look at this person who did XYZ, got a 3.7 and 32, and STILL didn't get in." We've all heard horror stories like that. Call me naive, but I like to think there are good reasons for things like that. Otherwise, is that rejected applicant just going to get into med schools by sitting on his butt and complaining about how unfair the world is? No, but instead by trying to see how he can improve.
 
sunflower79 said:
Earlier I said non-URMs have a greater chance proportionally than URMs of being accepted, just by statistics alone. In 2001, URMs accounted for about 23% of the US population, but only 11% of med school matriculants. (JJ Cohen, JAMA. 2003;289:1143-1149. btw he's the AAMC president.)
Click to expand...

Seems kind of difficult to get in if you don't apply 🙂

In other words, this seems like a weird way to present the numbers.
 
to say that URMS have no advantage is ridiculous and untrue.

to say that someone who did not get in this year, did not get in for a reason, IS being naive.

Such a positive attitude about this process is unhealthy, I mean afterall, med schools turn away half of the applicants, each wishing to pay the money, go through school, and become a practicing physician to serve other, what is wrong with that? Why turn them away? Sure some arent qualified, but a lot who are being rejected would make great physicians. It seems like a shame to me I know a lot of people who even decided NOT to apply based on their chances for admission, who I am totally confident would have been great MDs. It is frustrating that it works this way.

And this process doesnt "seem unfair sometimes" it "is unfair sometimes". I mean come on be real.

but i do agree with you that harping about it is not the best way to acheive ones goal. So good luck to all
 
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