What would be my best course of action right now?

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Mr Doc Turr

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I'm a junior in college now. I am planning on taking the MCAT in either April or May.

My school GPA is 3.034

I put my grades into a reliable AMCAS GPA calculator and it shows my GPA as 2.97. My science GPA is even lower at 2.73 (brutal)

I have a good, but not great amount of volunteer hours as well.

My GPA has been on a slight incline since the end of my sophomore year. I still have 40 credits to take so that might increase my GPA... BUT the AMCAS will only factor in my grades after this semester if I apply this summer. So, not much of a difference there.

I am going to study my absolute heart out for the MCAT and my question is...

What SHOULD I do?

A. Apply after my senior year, when my GPA could be higher. This also would mean I could delay my MCAT and take a gap year
B. Take the MCAT this April/May and apply the traditional way, after my junior year
C. Apply to the Big 4 Caribbean schools ONLY this year
D. Other (put in comments)
 
There's almost no chance that you're getting accepted with those numbers. Plan for the gap year. Take the MCAT in August, and use all 3 months to study for it. There are plans on here for how to use that time effectively. Do well and you may get a DO spot. If you crush it and make straight-A's next year, you could get a low-tier MD spot. You still need shadowing, clinical experience, letters of recommendation, and maybe research.
 
beachside said:
There's almost no chance that you're getting accepted with those numbers. Plan for the gap year. Take the MCAT in August, and use all 3 months to study for it. There are plans on here for how to use that time effectively. Do well and you may get a DO spot. If you crush it and make straight-A's next year, you could get a low-tier MD spot. You still need shadowing, clinical experience, letters of recommendation, and maybe research.
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If I can get a great MCAT score in August, would you still recommend that I apply this year?

Or take it in August and also take a gap year?
 
Ismet said:
D. Retake the science classes that are bringing down your GPA and apply to DO schools.

Not A. Your GPA would maybe go up to a 3.0. Not any better than a 2.9.
Not B. Your chance of acceptance with a GPA <3.0 is quite low
Not C. Caribbean is not the answer.
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Even the best carribean schools aren't a good option?

Do you think I would have a chance this year, with a good mcat, to get into one of the big 4 carribean schools?
 
Mr Doc Turr said:
If I can get a great MCAT score in August, would you still recommend that I apply this year?

Or take it in August and also take a gap year?
Click to expand...

It's possble that you could do well enough on the MCAT to apply to DO schools this year. Seems unlikely given your track record, however. If you really want to apply this year, you could try to take the MCAT in July. That would give you better timing.

You still need shadowing, clinical experience, and LOR's though. You would also need to crush the MCAT.

Alternatively, you can use DO grade-replacement policy to retake your low grades. It'll effectively add an extra year to your plan, most likely.
 
I think maybe you're thinking of rushing a little bit when you're not in the greatest spot at the moment. I'd recommend taking the time to flesh out the best application even if it takes you a little longer. That probably means doing well in all your classes currently and possibly retakes of classes you did poorly on and waiting to apply until you have all your ducks in a row. It'll save you a rash decision which is probably the last thing you want to do after all the work put in.
 
Ismet said:
D. Retake the science classes that are bringing down your GPA and apply to DO schools.

Not A. Your GPA would maybe go up to a 3.0. Not any better than a 2.9.
Not B. Your chance of acceptance with a GPA <3.0 is quite low
Not C. Caribbean is not the answer.
Click to expand...
D. as above Don't apply this summer with subpar ECs and GPA. Take an extra year or two to make your application the best it can be.
 
I'll just give you the truth being someone who has been through it all.

If you truly want to do medicine, as of this point you have no chance. You need a GPA of at least 3.5 or 3.6 to even be looked at. Once you get there, you need an MCAT of 30 or higher to be looked at.

Cariabean is a waste of money. Even if you match, with a 50% chance at that, you will be in a crappy residency with poor job prospects.

So what can you do? First, post-bac and get the GPA above 3.5. Then you should worry about the MCAT.

Truth is if someone doesn't tell you the truth, you will just waste more time and money.
 
As has been noted previously on the forums many times, even 45 MCAT will not rescue your GPA.

You have been struggling in your coursework. Why do you think you can achieve a great MCAT score? Magic thinking isn't going to help you, fixing your learning deficits will.


Mr Doc Turr said:
If I can get a great MCAT score in August, would you still recommend that I apply this year?

Or take it in August and also take a gap year?
Click to expand...
 
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cincincyreds said:
I'll just give you the truth being someone who has been through it all.

If you truly want to do medicine, as of this point you have no chance. You need a GPA of at least 3.5 or 3.6 to even be looked at. Once you get there, you need an MCAT of 30 or higher to be looked at.

Cariabean is a waste of money. Even if you match, with a 50% chance at that, you will be in a crappy residency with poor job prospects.

So what can you do? First, post-bac and get the GPA above 3.5. Then you should worry about the MCAT.

Truth is if someone doesn't tell you the truth, you will just waste more time and money.
Click to expand...
I'm going to use your comment as motivation. Plenty of people have gotten in with a 3.2 to 3.4
 
Mr Doc Turr said:
I'm going to use your comment as motivation. Plenty of people have gotten in with a 3.2 to 3.4
Click to expand...

It's true, it's possible to get in with stats like that, but those applicants usually have something that sets their apps apart. Even then, it's an uphill battle. My undergraduate cGPA is also in the ~3.2 range with an MCAT slightly in the mid-30's. But I also have a really steep upward trend, a master's degree, and I was a combat medic in the Army. When I applied, I knew the odds were against me, but thankfully I received a handful of II's and garnered an acceptance.

I don't want to discourage you, but you should have a realistic outlook. You have a lot of work ahead of you, and while it's possible, you shouldn't count on it.
 
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Mr Doc Turr said:
I'm going to use your comment as motivation. Plenty of people have gotten in with a 3.2 to 3.4
Click to expand...

I wish the best for everyone. And hopefully I've motivated you to study hard, improve your GPA and scrore a fantastic MCAT scrore. Just don't assume that you will score a 30 or higher on the MCAT. It is actually fairly tough to do and all the schools can easily fill their spots with people with MCATs>30 and GPAs>3.5. There are a lot of highly qualified applicants out there.

I think a lot of people fail at the process because they don't know what is requried of them when they start.
 
cincincyreds said:
I'll just give you the truth being someone who has been through it all.

If you truly want to do medicine, as of this point you have no chance. You need a GPA of at least 3.5 or 3.6 to even be looked at. Once you get there, you need an MCAT of 30 or higher to be looked at.

Cariabean is a waste of money. Even if you match, with a 50% chance at that, you will be in a crappy residency with poor job prospects.

So what can you do? First, post-bac and get the GPA above 3.5. Then you should worry about the MCAT.

Truth is if someone doesn't tell you the truth, you will just waste more time and money.
Click to expand...

Although I agree that Caribbean is a terrible idea, the GPA required for US allopathic schools is not nearly that high. For a community full of people who are highly scientifically literature, SDN tends to inflate the heck out of the data or ignore it all together in favor of anecdote. AAMC was kind enough to provide the GPA and MCAT information for our use, and I would recommend doing so. I've linked the site below. Table 24 would be what I would use.

https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/85992/bymcatscoresandgpas.html

All of that being said a post-bac is a good call if you're not interested in DO.
 
Cyberdyne 101 said:
Yeah, that's if they've demonstrated at least 1.5 years of straight As. I'll be applying with a sub-3.5 gpa, but that'll be with a significant amount of As on my transcript.
Click to expand...

Yup, exactly. Pretty much flunked out of my first 1.5 years of college, dropped out and joined the Army, then came back and beasted through my bachelor's.
 
MrLogan13 said:
It's true, it's possible to get in with stats like that, but those applicants usually have something that sets their apps apart. Even then, it's an uphill battle. My undergraduate cGPA is also in the ~3.2 range with an MCAT slightly over 30. But I also have a really steep upward trend, a master's degree, and I was a combat medic in the Army. When I applied, I knew the odds were against me, but thankfully I received a handful of II's and garnered an acceptance.

I don't want to discourage you, but you should have a realistic outlook. You have a lot of work ahead of you, and while it's possible, you shouldn't count on it.
Click to expand...

By the way, congrats on improving yourself. You are someone a medical school admissions committee would be looking for.
 
cincincyreds said:
By the way, congrats on improving yourself. You are someone a medical school admissions committee would be looking for.
Click to expand...

Thanks for saying that. It's been quite the struggle, but it helped that things came into focus for me as I grew more mature in life.

OP can do the same, but no joke, you have a lot of work ahead of you.
 
So you make a thread asking for advice and then you decide to do the opposite of the sound advice given to you. Good luck
 
MrLogan13 said:
Yup, exactly. Pretty much flunked out of my first 1.5 years of college, dropped out and joined the Army, then came back and beasted through my bachelor's.
Click to expand...

A record like this tells a cohesive, compelling story. Young and foolish -- Reboot --- Older and wiser, with maturity, dedication, and presumably, some degree of insight. This is a story any older adult (like most AdCom members) can relate to.
 
DokterMom said:
A record like this tells a cohesive, compelling story. Young and foolish -- Reboot --- Older and wiser, with maturity, dedication, and presumably, some degree of insight. This is a story any older adult (like most AdCom members) can relate to.
Click to expand...
Yup.. My story too. Different script, similar theme.


Sent from my iPhone
 
peglegbob said:
Although I agree that Caribbean is a terrible idea, the GPA required for US allopathic schools is not nearly that high. For a community full of people who are highly scientifically literature, SDN tends to inflate the heck out of the data or ignore it all together in favor of anecdote. AAMC was kind enough to provide the GPA and MCAT information for our use, and I would recommend doing so. I've linked the site below. Table 24 would be what I would use.

https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/85992/bymcatscoresandgpas.html

All of that being said a post-bac is a good call if you're not interested in DO.
Click to expand...
I actually disagree with the statement that SDN inflates the data. Telling someone that they can get into a MD program with a 3.4 and a 28 is hardly sound advise IMO. Sure, people get in with those stats, but if you're white like most applicants your chances hover around 30% and that's not even the whole story. Many of those people are like myself, Mr.Logan, and cyber who have made profound improvement in our academic record.

Most of us on SDN want to help others be successful. In order to do that I would much rather recommend someone apply with stats in the 50-70% acceptance range. Unfortunately, this is not what people like the OP want to hear. Everyone wants to be the exception to the rule; too bad that's not statistically possible.


Sent from my iPhone
 
ski89 said:
I actually disagree with the statement that SDN inflates the data. Telling someone that they can get into a MD program with a 3.4 and a 28 is hardly sound advise IMO. Sure, people get in with those stats, but if you're white like most applicants your chances hover around 30% and that's not even the whole story. Many of those people are like myself, Mr.Logan, and cyber who have made profound improvement in our academic record.

Most of us on SDN want to help others be successful. In order to do that I would much rather recommend someone apply with stats in the 50-70% acceptance range. Unfortunately, this is not what people like the OP want to hear. Everyone wants to be the exception to the rule; too bad that's not statistically possible.


Sent from my iPhone
Click to expand...


I agree that advising someone with a 3.4 and a 28 to apply is irresponsible, but I do find it rather irritating when people state that a 3.6 is required for admission. That is equally, if not more, irresponsible. The data simply doesn't support that assertion. That's why I was advocating for a factual look at the situation as opposed to people throwing out numbers off the top of their head. I think stating that with GPA X and MCAT Y your chances are Z% is reasonable, regardless of the percent. We are not dealing with children who do not understand basic probability, they should already understand that they likely will not be the exception to the rule.

Now as to whether people on SDN do or do not inflate numbers, I can't argue your point anymore than you can argue mine because it's all anecdotal. All I can say is that I have noticed a lot of people who set the bar far higher than what the data shows. I want others to be successful as well, but I also don't want to crush someone's dreams without reason. The amount of work to get from a 3.0 to a 3.6 is insane. The OP would need to get a 4.0 in more credits than they have already taken in order to raise their GPA that much.

I am in the same boat as you, terrible start with increasing performance and if I had read that the requirement was a 3.6 I would have given up long ago. Fortunately I did not and through a combination of hard work and perseverance I now have a reasonable chance at admission.

I do think the caveats that you listed are reasonable, which is why I advocated for a postbac to increase the OP's GPA and show an upward trend.
 
ski89 said:
I actually disagree with the statement that SDN inflates the data. Telling someone that they can get into a MD program with a 3.4 and a 28 is hardly sound advise IMO. Sure, people get in with those stats, but if you're white like most applicants your chances hover around 30% and that's not even the whole story. Many of those people are like myself, Mr.Logan, and cyber who have made profound improvement in our academic record.

Most of us on SDN want to help others be successful. In order to do that I would much rather recommend someone apply with stats in the 50-70% acceptance range. Unfortunately, this is not what people like the OP want to hear. Everyone wants to be the exception to the rule; too bad that's not statistically possible.


Sent from my iPhone
Click to expand...
I disagree with the notion that applicants with a sub "3.5 gpa do not get looked at." That is inflating data IMO, which happens at times on SDN (see above). However, such myths are often disproved by other SDNers with hard data. But you are correct that it's quite difficult to get in with lower stats. People tend to romanticize the gpa reconstruction process and believe that those As will materialize out of nowhere. And obviously, it's not that simple. If anything, my story is more like a cautionary tale. I actually wish I didn't take science during immensely difficult times. Sadly, I didn't know any better and I was given very poor advice at the time. But I should have a decent shot at some schools once it's all said and done.

Congrats on your acceptance!!
 
@peglegbob @Cyberdyne 101

Yeah I think we are on the same page.. I would never tell someone with a 3.3 GPA that they don't have a shot. I would just tell them not to apply for another year or two so they have a more reasonable chance at an MD acceptance.
 
Get straight As (or very close to it) this semester and both semesters senior year.

Can't do that? Do something other than med school.
 
ski89 said:
@peglegbob @Cyberdyne 101

Yeah I think we are on the same page.. I would never tell someone with a 3.3 GPA that they don't have a shot. I would just tell them not to apply for another year or two so they have a more reasonable chance at an MD acceptance.
Click to expand...
Yep, if that GPA (and other parts of the app) can be improved, then they should definitely wait. However, for some, getting to a 3.3 required 2 or more years of As. Obviously, this will vary depending on the circumtances.

My situation is actually a worst case scenario (1 F and 2 NC grades, which count as Fs). I have over 30 grades of at least an A- on my transcript (9 are in the BCPM category) and there's only so much I can do for my GPA at this point :shrug:After my sGPA breaks the 3.0 mark, I'll apply and see what happens :shrug:. By then, my overall should be ~3.4 (it's harder to improve once you've compiled over 160 credits).
 
Yeah I mean I got in sub 3.5 but I had to take time to develop a maturity that I could convey with multiple gap years of working/volunteering/growing the hell up/understanding what medicine will be like. Prior to that, it was all talk in my mind but I think that I've taken steps to improve as a person/applicant even if I didn't necessarily take more classes.

Plus my last two years of undergrad >>> first two. I just didn't have the study skills at first even though I had previously been a good student. OP has the opportunity for 2 years of showing that he/she can improve as a student. Why rush it and apply early?
 
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There's a big difference between the dramatic "turnaround" story some applicants have, going from poor students to super-star students - often with a break in between. That tells a story of an applicant who grew up and made some serious changes, and the more-recent 4.0 tends to partially negate the previous <3.0.

But a "chronic B or A-B student" tells a very different story -- that of a reasonably bright applicant who is moderately hard-working and hasn't necessarily, undergone any major metamorphoses. Respectable. But yawn...

As long as there are multiple highly-qualified applicants for every spot, why would an Ad Com select the moderately good student over the super-star? Sometimes there are reasons -- amazing extra-curricular activities, an unusual back-story that adds diversity, grandfather's trust fund or double-legacy status.

OP - You've said a 'moderate upturn' in your grades. I'd suggest that moderation really isn't good in all things...
 
DokterMom said:
There's a big difference between the dramatic "turnaround" story some applicants have, going from poor students to super-star students - often with a break in between. That tells a story of an applicant who grew up and made some serious changes, and the more-recent 4.0 tends to partially negate the previous <3.0.

But a "chronic B or A-B student" tells a very different story -- that of a reasonably bright applicant who is moderately hard-working and hasn't necessarily, undergone any major metamorphoses. Respectable. But yawn...

As long as there are multiple highly-qualified applicants for every spot, why would an Ad Com select the moderately good student over the super-star? Sometimes there are reasons -- amazing extra-curricular activities, an unusual back-story that adds diversity, grandfather's trust fund or double-legacy status.

OP - You've said a 'moderate upturn' in your grades. I'd suggest that moderation really isn't good in all things...
Click to expand...

Well put.


Sent from my iPhone
 
I'm surprised no one has said "to tread lightly" lol

But as others have said, you need to start pulling 4.00s every semester and/or do a post-bac.

Try to get involved with (or continue) an EC that would really make you stand out.
 
justadream said:
I'm surprised no one has said "to tread lightly" lol

But as others have said, you need to start pulling 4.00s every semester and/or do a post-bac.

Try to get involved with (or continue) an EC that would really make you stand out.
Click to expand...

If that's true, and you don't know who I am, then perhaps your best course would be to tread lightly.
 
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