What would you do? Very unique circumstance.

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GolfLover5122

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Hey everyone,

I'm about to graduate in May, and I recently found out that my scholarship will not be approved for any further schooling in the U.S.
d a few Australian dental schools that has the same exact ools here.

The scholarship will pay for only one further study (not in U.S.) so I could go to England and get a master's/P.h.D. and come back.
But I only get to pick one track.

My question is, what should I do? I am planning to apply this semester/summer so I have a gap year. Here are options that I could think of:
 
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If you want to practice here, you have to go to med school here.
Not true. There are many threads on people who go overseas and come back to practice. It's not the easiest, but it's doable.
 
Not true. There are many threads on people who go overseas and come back to practice. It's not the easiest, but it's doable.
@Goro is an admin in an American med school. While what you say is true-ish, I wouldn't go so far as to even call it "doable". The likelihood of practicing in your field of interest, in the US, is drastically reduced by not attending a US DO/MD institution.
 
Not true. There are many threads on people who go overseas and come back to practice. It's not the easiest, but it's doable.

Then do it. Understand, though, that's the difficulty you mention is not simply "I need to work harder." You're at a disadvantage from day 1 by going to a foreign medical school. You will not be treated in the same category as just about any applicant that comes from an American MD or DO school.

You can try and convince yourself otherwise, but if your goal is to 1) practice in the US and 2) have the greatest number of options for your career, @Goro's point is absolutely true. Unless you're a true superstar, you're not going to end up at one of the Harvard internal medicine programs as a foreign medical graduate (FMG). You will be lucky to get a spot at a program at any large university. This is becoming even more true as US medical schools expand and new schools open.. The end result is that FMGs are being squeezed out from residency programs.

I'm sure you'll be able to find anecdotes that prove this wrong, and I'm sure that foreign medical schools will bedazzle you with their match statistics. For a variety of reasons, these aren't reflective of reality.
 
It has been possible to go abroad, complete a program of study and eventually be licensed to practice in the US. OP, as you know, it is not easy. What you may not know is that it is getting harder because the number of US grads (who are favored by residency programs) is growing and the number of residencies left after the US grads get theirs is shrinking.

Furthermore, if you attended school in the US, then went abroad for your professional education, the question would be raised why you did not do your professional education here.

Go to dental school asap, pay off the debt and be debt free sooner than if you picked choices 2 or 3. Choice 4 could leave you in limbo for years while you attempt to pass the ECFMG exam and find a residency that will accept you over equally qualified applicants who were trained at US schools.
 
Thanks to everyone for the advice. I'm now looking deeper into my option of studying abroad and the pros/cons that come with it.
 
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It has been possible to go abroad, complete a program of study and eventually be licensed to practice in the US. OP, as you know, it is not easy. What you may not know is that it is getting harder because the number of US grads (who are favored by residency programs) is growing and the number of residencies left after the US grads get theirs is shrinking.

Furthermore, if you attended school in the US, then went abroad for your professional education, the question would be raised why you did not do your professional education here.

Go to dental school asap, pay off the debt and be debt free sooner than if you picked choices 2 or 3. Choice 4 could leave you in limbo for years while you attempt to pass the ECFMG exam and find a residency that will accept you over equally qualified applicants who were trained at US schools.

Such a thing doesn't really exist.

I knew nothing about University of Queensland in Australia before this morning, but some basic research shows that it looks very similar to Sackler in Israel. It is essentially a low end USMD school. Pre-clinicals in Australia, clinicals at Ochsner in Louisiana. You are required to be a US citizen or a US permanent resident to go to it. Their match lists are comparable to the less competitive US MD schools here in the states with even more regional bias. This is not your typical FMG program.

Another point, I don't think you can get financial aid via the US government if you are a foreign national, which means financing via private loans, which is a scary prospect.
 
Thanks to everyone for the advice. I'm now looking deeper into my option of studying abroad and the pros/cons that come with it.

I'm specifically looking at University of Queensland in Australia.

How bad are these stats? I'm not sure... it sounds pretty good (96%), but I don't have the knowledge to know if it's fluff.

http://www.mededpath.org/residency_match_2013.html

The question to ask is how many American students matriculated 5 years ago and how many of them are currently in US residencies. Some of these schools may have a high proportion matching because they weed hard in the first 2 years. The avg. undergrad GPA and MCAT are low and it would not be surprising if they cull the herd after year 1 and year 2. Check that out before you bite.
 
Yeah I've read posts from other people who've graduated from the UQ school. They regret it/said it's not the best education.. so that's out.
 
I knew nothing about University of Queensland in Australia before this morning, but some basic research shows that it looks very similar to Sackler in Israel. It is essentially a low end USMD school. Pre-clinicals in Australia, clinicals at Ochsner in Louisiana. You are required to be a US citizen or a US permanent resident to go to it. Their match lists are comparable to the less competitive US MD schools here in the states with even more regional bias. This is not your typical FMG program.

Another point, I don't think you can get financial aid via the US government if you are a foreign national, which means financing via private loans, which is a scary prospect.

To say that it's US accredited is a little disingenuous though. (however, as someone who had to walk 4 blocks through snow and wind this morning the thought of spending two years in Australia and two years in Naw'lins sounds pretty nice).

/good question about the fin-aid though. Not sure how it works for green carders. SDN? Anyone?
 
Could I apply for military/navy scholarships as a green card holder?

I can't find the answer anywhere.
 
wait, quick question, why would the Aussie route be fully funded?
I suspect the OP is a foreign national who is having her education paid for by her government. However, since she has a US green card, her home country will not pay for more schooling in the US but will pay for her to go elsewhere.
 
I suspect the OP is a foreign national who is having her education paid for by her government. However, since she has a US green card, her home country will not pay for more schooling in the US but will pay for her to go elsewhere.
..
 
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Their match lists are comparable to the less competitive US MD schools here in the states with even more regional bias. This is not your typical FMG program.
If the match lists are comparable to the less competitive US MD schools, wouldn't it be worth it then?
 
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If the match lists are comparable to the less competitive US MD schools, wouldn't it be worth it then?
I would be debt free because my medical school would essentially be paid for.


My father is also a family physician, and I wouldn't mind doing what he does. (many who go to this school end up becoming family physicians)

I'll take a shot at this. Keep in mind the following while you read: #1 I knew nothing about this school until today. #2 Schools are notorious for playing with their statistics to entice students to apply. US schools are notorious for this as well. My wife's Law school (top 3) pulls the most ridiculous things with their graduation stats that are just plain abhorrent. Caribbean have extremely misleading match lists and dubious claims about the success of their students.

#1 You are going to need to do your own in depth research about this specific school. My questions: When they list people on their match lists, how many are pre-lim (single year contracts rather than full training) positions? What exactly do they mean by "accredited"? They aren't listed by LCME. What exactly is the pathway into the ACGME match? Do you have to do what most FMGs do as far as securing US residency positions? As LizzyM asks, how many students do they bring in vs. graduate. They claim "96% match rate", but is that 96% of students that applied for the match? 96% of graduating students? 96% of students that matriculated on Day 1? On face value (ie in the 10 minutes that I searched for stuff), this is very similar to Sackler in Israel, which is a good thing from a training perspective and Ochsner (the health system) is a pretty big name in health care, at least here in the South. But, you have to really look long and hard before committing to this to make sure all the i's are dotted and t's crossed. What bodes well for them is that at least their website is pretty upfront about their stats and who they are, no obvious shenanigans.

#2 My biggest concern is that you have a certain level of apathy toward medicine. I am always concerned when someone says, "I wouldn't mind being a physician." Being a physician is quite different from being a dentist as it is quite different from most professions. There are people out there that genuinely could be extremely happy doing any number of different things, personally, the more I see my wife practice law, the more I think that I should have gone into the DA's office like her. (Also, my father went MD --> research --> pharma executive --> Wall Street --> retired (at 50) --> Full time human rights activist.) But, in my limited experience, most people aren't like this. Usually, when someone is apathetic, they are making decisions based on things they shouldn't (like salary) or ignorance (little to no clinical exposure).

This school sounds like a reasonable option, especially considering your financial constraints. Assuming that the stats are at least reasonably close to what they are representing and someone else is footing the bill, I think that it is actually a pretty good option. If you will not be able to get federal loans in the US for dental or medical school, I think that it is your best option.

I think that I am on solid logical footing here, but I am out of my depth experience wise and ask @Goro @gyngyn and @LizzyM to double check me.
 
#2 My biggest concern is that you have a certain level of apathy toward medicine. I am always concerned when someone says, "I wouldn't mind being a physician." Being a physician is quite different from being a dentist as it is quite different from most professions. There are people out there that genuinely could be extremely happy doing any number of different things, personally, the more I see my wife practice law, the more I think that I should have gone into the DA's office like her. (Also, my father went MD --> research --> pharma executive --> Wall Street --> retired (at 50) --> Full time human rights activist.) But, in my limited experience, most people aren't like this. Usually, when someone is apathetic, they are making decisions based on things they shouldn't (like salary) or ignorance (little to no clinical exposure).



I know I'm still young/new, but I've had some shadowing experience, and I do want to be in the medical/dental field. I get to treat patients and change lives because of my job. I love it. I just have to make a decision on which one I like more within.... the next month.

Thank you for a very comprehensive explanation. I'm not sure where their stats are coming from, but I'll try to get in touch with them and ask. There are posts on here where some people say it's a good opportunity to do international work, while others say that the education isn't worth it.

Again thank you!
 
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I'm not particularly impressed with that match list that was posted. Even with the salt lick sized grain of salt that should be taken when comparing match lists, I'd say they're bested by the Southern Illinois, Toledos, and Wayne States of the world pretty easily.
 
This is just my 2cents but, I met a Dr. who graduated from the Costa Rica I belive during a undergraduate internship I did over the summer. She had been working for 2 years at this place as a medical scribe. She is now in debt and is looking to go to a U.S school to be a nurse because she can not support her self on the income she is making. She cannot match any where to specialize , not even internal medicine nothing.
I couldn't imagine doing medical school, then to become a nurse. These 5+ year members know what they're talking about. U.S. medical school (maybe Canadian?) if you want to be a physician here. Best of luck!
 
Could I apply for military/navy scholarships as a green card holder?

I can't find the answer anywhere.

You must be a U.S. citizen to qualify for an HPSP scholarship and otherwise qualified to become a commissioned officer.
 
It seems like you're making your decisions based on getting a low or debt-free graduate degree. IMO, you should apply US MD/DO and take the debt like everyone else. You can pay it off in 5-10 years after residency.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think foreigners have a very difficult time getting loans in the US.

Maybe the green card would change things?
 
I'm not 100% sure, but I think foreigners have a very difficult time getting loans in the US.

Maybe the green card would change things?

Foreigners don't have access to federal loans, and I know a number of schools (Hopkins being a prime example) that require the entire cost for four years be placed into escrow at matriculation. Good luck with that

I'm unfamiliar with how the green card affects the situation, but I imagine it wouldn't change things too drastically.
 
Foreigners don't have access to federal loans, and I know a number of schools (Hopkins being a prime example) that require the entire cost for four years be placed into escrow at matriculation. Good luck with that

I'm unfamiliar with how the green card affects the situation, but I imagine it wouldn't change things too drastically.

Yup when my siblings attended undergraduate college, they still had their green cards and they received financial aid. Then again, this was 2001-2004 so things may have changed since then.
 
Foreigners don't have access to federal loans, and I know a number of schools (Hopkins being a prime example) that require the entire cost for four years be placed into escrow at matriculation. Good luck with that

I'm unfamiliar with how the green card affects the situation, but I imagine it wouldn't change things too drastically.
Green card holders are eligible for federally insured student loans.
 
Yup when my siblings attended undergraduate college, they still had their green cards and they received financial aid. Then again, this was 2001-2004 so things may have changed since then.

Green card holders are eligible for federally insured student loans.

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