What would you guys do?

[DD214_DOC]

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JKMed, it really comes down to you. Do you REALLY want the MD? If so, go Carribean. What can I tell you? If you want a top notch AMERICAN EDUCATION, go DO. I don't care what anyone says. DO's is better than being a FMG. Notice I didn't say they were better doctors, I just think it will be easier for you in the long run.

I don't care what letters are behind my name.

 

[EMTLizzy]

I don't care what letters are behind my name.

Okay, I think we've narrowed down the problem.

WVSOM is very, very, very into OMM and what people call the "DO Philosophy". There are people in my class who are there because they wanted to be a doctor and this is where they got in. But it seems like they aren't all that happy because they always feel like they are being "brainwashed" because of the OPP integration.

There are other osteopathic schools that don't place such a great emphasis on this and you may be happier there (a more allopathic osteopathic school).

Then there are those people in class who are there precisely because they do care what letters come after their name. D.O.

 

[DD214_DOC]

I like the school and you're not going to talk me out of it because you think I don't belong there. I think I know what I want more than you. Sorry if that sounds mean.

 

[JohnnyOU]

I like the school and you're not going to talk me out of it because you think I don't belong there. I think I know what I want more than you.

👍

 

[EMTLizzy]

I like the school and you're not going to talk me out of it because you think I don't belong there.

Well, it was worth a shot anyway.

I think it's just your history of flippant remarks that's making the WVSOM welcome wagon a bit hesitant to roll out for you.

 

[DD214_DOC]

Well, it was worth a shot anyway.

I think it's just your history of flippant remarks that's making the WVSOM welcome wagon a bit hesitant to roll out for you.

That's ok. The same thing happened at a Baptist church when I refused to believe that the earth was 6,000 years old. That doesn't mean I don't deserve to be a Christian.

I'm just curious what you current students think of the automatic acceptance without interview program WVSOM has going on.

 

[EMTLizzy]

I'm just curious what you current students think of the automatic acceptance without interview program WVSOM has going on.

I'm not a fan of it. I think it's a great way to get a real tool in the class. Someone who looks great on paper, but is more like Rain Man in person.

 

[DD214_DOC]

I'm not a fan of it. I think it's a great way to get a real tool in the class. Someone who looks great on paper, but is more like Rain Man in person.

It's a bit suspect. The automatic interview thing is alright I guess.

 

[Old_Mil]

...I'd say go to St. Georges. You've paid your dues in the reapplication cycle; I personally would structure your applications the first time around so as to get you into medical school right away without reapplying. 2-4 years of your life is a lot of time to waste filling out applications.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

One of the upgrades to SDN is that signatures, links, etc., only appear ONCE per person per page. Therefore, exlawgrrl's signature can be found on the first post on this page from her. Subsequent posts from her ON THIS PAGE ONLY will not show her signature. If she posts on the next page, her first post on the next page will again show her signature.

At least, that's how I interpreted Lee's upgrade explanations.

i was confused about that, too. thanks for clearing it up. 🙂

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Nobody has really even touched on the other dilemma I face. After this academic year my numbers will be in the "possibility" range for both my state and lower-tier US MD schools.

reread this post to see where some of the rest of us are coming from. why would you care about getting your numbers up into range for allopathic schools unless that is your ultimate goal? true, i did apply to both allopathic and osteopathic schools, but you can see from my profile that i applied to many more osteopathic schools than allopathic schools. also, i don't routinely knock omm, which seems to be a hobby of yours.

i have trouble believing that if your numbers were higher that you would still only be applying to osteopathic schools. say what you like, it's inconsistent with your past posts, so i don't buy it.

 

[Megalofyia]

I'm not a fan of it. I think it's a great way to get a real tool in the class. Someone who looks great on paper, but is more like Rain Man in person.

Yeah I'm worried about this too.. OTOH someone with the numbers to get into an MD and takes the acceptace probably really wants to be a DO.

 

[DD214_DOC]

reread this post to see where some of the rest of us are coming from. why would you care about getting your numbers up into range for allopathic schools unless that is your ultimate goal? true, i did apply to both allopathic and osteopathic schools, but you can see from my profile that i applied to many more osteopathic schools than allopathic schools. also, i don't routinely knock omm, which seems to be a hobby of yours.

i have trouble believing that if your numbers were higher that you would still only be applying to osteopathic schools. say what you like, it's inconsistent with your past posts, so i don't buy it.

1) Questioning the utility and practicality of something isn't "knocking" it. I have never said, "OMM is stupid".

2) After potentially two cycles of being rejected from DO schools, if my numbers are in the MD range as well I was contemplating adding them to increase my chances of acceptance.

 

[Raven Feather]

JKD,

I personally, wouldn't mind having you as a school mate accepting that you never cared what letters you had behind your name! It is alright with me. 👍

 

[HoodyHoo]

I don't really agree with the assertions that I'm not commited to the DO profession. I really do like DO schools and the holistic approach is interesting, though I don't believe it to be completely exclusive to osteopathic medicine. There are other reasons that I prefer DO.

However, I am a bit skeptical regarding OMM. I think it has its uses but isn't the panacea some make it out to be and I don't believe it has a definite place in modern medicine. Remember, most practicing DO's do not use OMM. I would think it would be a good thing to have more DOs willing to scrutinize the bases of their own profession and adapt as the times change.

Nobody has really even touched on the other dilemma I face. After this academic year my numbers will be in the "possibility" range for both my state and lower-tier US MD schools.

You would be amazed at what kind of place OMM SHOULD have in medicine today. You cannot make that statement since you really don't know much about OMM......yet. It was hard for me to understand what it was all about before starting school, but when you learn about what kind of clinical correlations OMM has you will be amazed.

In my opinion most of us will not practice OMM because it is very time consuming to truly become an expert, and most of us have goals beyond spending years and years learning OMM. As a student you get a decent grasp, but not enough to sufficiently treat your patients in the future. you really need to do the fellowship/continued education in OMM to really get into it.

 

[NRAI2001]

Go to carribean. 4 years of applying is a lot of time to waste, you could have been almost done with med school by now. Plus they have comparable residency matches to most DO schools.

 

[USArmyDoc]

Go to carribean. 4 years of applying is a lot of time to waste, you could have been almost done with med school by now. Plus they have comparable residency matches to most DO schools.

Unless I have heard wrong, this is not really correct. Being a DO has alot of advantages over a FMG. Remember, I have been told this so I am just passing it on.

 

[JohnnyOU]

Unless I have heard wrong, this is not really correct. Being a DO has alot of advantages over a FMG. Remember, I have been told this so I am just passing it on.

I hear the same.

 

[dr.z]

Unless I have heard wrong, this is not really correct. Being a DO has alot of advantages over a FMG. Remember, I have been told this so I am just passing it on.

I heard it too.

 

[DD214_DOC]

Unless I have heard wrong, this is not really correct. Being a DO has alot of advantages over a FMG. Remember, I have been told this so I am just passing it on.

From my firsthand experience of looking at match lists, there is a lot of similarity between most of the DO and "Big 3" Carib school match lists. Both are typically mostly IM/FP with a smattering of Surg and other stuff.

However, that was not for all DO schools.

 

[NRAI2001]

Unless I have heard wrong, this is not really correct. Being a DO has alot of advantages over a FMG. Remember, I have been told this so I am just passing it on.

I m just speaking in regards to match lists. SGU and ROSS have pretty decent match lists, very comparable to most DO schools. Especially in terms of IM, FP, Anesth. and Gen surg. matches.

http://sgu.edu/website/sguwebsite.nsf/Home/2005ResidencyAppointmentListBySpecialty.htm

 

[manfood.com]

this argument will last forever. If you know the match list possibilities, why not just go to the carib? It's about what you put in that counts. If you think you want the MD after your name, go carib, if you want to wait, wait. If they both match in the same places, wouldn't you like to be home. I think you have beat enough around the bush and have answered your own questions 20x over. It seems to be you are battling your own thoughts online in this forum when deep down inside it seems like you want to be an MD. We arne't here to justify why you should go DO or not, that is a choice that I think you have to come up with. I think you have already made your choice, good luck to ya.

 

[NRAI2001]

this argument will last forever. If you know the match list possibilities, why not just go to the carib? It's about what you put in that counts. If you think you want the MD after your name, go carib, if you want to wait, wait. If they both match in the same places, wouldn't you like to be home. I think you have beat enough around the bush and have answered your own questions 20x over. It seems to be you are battling your own thoughts online in this forum when deep down inside it seems like you want to be an MD. We arne't here to justify why you should go DO or not, that is a choice that I think you have to come up with. I think you have already made your choice, good luck to ya.

The OP said that he doesn't care about the intials behind his name, so with that in mind my opinion is that you should not waste anymore time (i think u said u already applied to DO schools 3 times) and start your medical education. Unless if you want something like neuro surg., plastics, ent...etc you ll be able to do almost anything out of the carribean or out of DO schools.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Go to carribean. 4 years of applying is a lot of time to waste, you could have been almost done with med school by now. Plus they have comparable residency matches to most DO schools.

Nope, not really. They (FMG's) have much lower board pass rates anyway.

 

[OSUdoc08]

The OP said that he doesn't care about the intials behind his name, so with that in mind my opinion is that you should not waste anymore time (i think u said u already applied to DO schools 3 times) and start your medical education. Unless if you want something like neuro surg., plastics, ent...etc you ll be able to do almost anything out of the carribean or out of DO schools.

Um....you can do these as a DO....in fact DO's have their own residencies for these....

Not sure why you keep giving out false information, but it isn't helpful....

 

[NRAI2001]

Nope, not really. They (FMG's) have much lower board pass rates anyway.

But board score are student dependent. That student would have gotten that same score at a DO school anyway. So lets assume that board scores are held constant.

 

[OSUdoc08]

But board score are student dependent. That student would have gotten that same score at a DO school anyway. So lets assume that board scores are held constant.

We can't really do that, because average board scores are different when comparing 2 schools head-to-head. It really has to do with how good the education and preparation is at a particular school.

I agree that the individual may have a similar performance if they were able to be accepted to both schools, since many caribbean schools don't even require the MCAT and certainly don't care about GPA at all, but the extra boost of the better education would certainly can't be overlooked.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

But board score are student dependent. That student would have gotten that same score at a DO school anyway. So lets assume that board scores are held constant.

true, also the top caribbean schools actually have higher average usmle board passage rates that osteopathic schools. i don't think any of us are doing favors to osteopathic medicine but spreading falsehoods about caribbean schools. students at sgu pass the usmle more than osteopathic medical students do. should we care? not necessarily, because most likely osteopathic medical students don't place as much emphasis on usmle prep as they should because they also have to study for the comlex. but, i don't think it's right to clump all offshore schools together without admitting that there are offshore schools with good residency placement, licensure in all states, and yes, high usmle passage rates.

for someone in jdkmed's situation, attending a caribbean school could be a good option. personally, i'd attend sgu if i had to go offshore because i like my life to be easy and want the most ease with clinical rotation setup as possible.

 

[DD214_DOC]

SGU, Ross, and AUC are all fine schools. I hear Saba is getting up there. SGU has better clinical placement but AUC's island is a lot nicer (though very expensive to live on.)

Back to the original point of this thread, I'm tempted to try at least one more time to get into a DO school and adding USMD schools next year to broaden my application pool. However, doing so would be another year wasted.

The only problem I have with going to the Caribbean is that my wife wouldn't be able to work (RN) and I don't think we can financially live on just student loans with the obligations that would remain here.

My numbers and, subsequently, competitiveness increase with each semester, and it's getting to the point where it might be foolish and unnecessary to head to the Caribbean, particularly with my SGPA being above a 3.50 after this academic year. If I decide to retake the MCAT, I very well could be admitted through WVSOM's ED program regardless of this year's outcome.

 

[OSUdoc08]

true, also the top caribbean schools actually have higher average usmle board passage rates that osteopathic schools. i don't think any of us are doing favors to osteopathic medicine but spreading falsehoods about caribbean schools. students at sgu pass the usmle more than osteopathic medical students do. should we care? not necessarily, because most likely osteopathic medical students don't place as much emphasis on usmle prep as they should because they also have to study for the comlex. but, i don't think it's right to clump all offshore schools together without admitting that there are offshore schools with good residency placement, licensure in all states, and yes, high usmle passage rates.

for someone in jdkmed's situation, attending a caribbean school could be a good option. personally, i'd attend sgu if i had to go offshore because i like my life to be easy and want the most ease with clinical rotation setup as possible.

If you are going to isolate your comparison to only the top caribbean schools, then you must compare them to the top osteopathic schools to be fair.

In this case, the top osteopathic schools have a HIGHER pass rate than the top caribbean schools.

In your example of SGU --> there are DO schools that have a 100% board pass rate.

If you want to discuss the average of ALL DO schools, then you must also use the average of ALL caribbean schools.

 

[cosmicstarr]

If you are going to isolate your comparison to only the top caribbean schools, then you must compare them to the top osteopathic schools to be fair.

In this case, the top osteopathic schools have a HIGHER pass rate than the top caribbean schools.

In your example of SGU --> there are DO schools that have a 100% board pass rate.

If you want to discuss the average of ALL DO schools, then you must also use the average of ALL caribbean schools.

Which are the top DO schools?

 

[DD214_DOC]

If you are going to isolate your comparison to only the top caribbean schools, then you must compare them to the top osteopathic schools to be fair.

In this case, the top osteopathic schools have a HIGHER pass rate than the top caribbean schools.

In your example of SGU --> there are DO schools that have a 100% board pass rate.

If you want to discuss the average of ALL DO schools, then you must also use the average of ALL caribbean schools.

That's just lumping them together by geographic location instead of the type of school they are. I don't think there's any argument that the top Carib schools are in a class of their own; most of the other schools don't even have licensure in all fifty states, so how could you even lump them together with Ross, SGU, and AUC?

And which DO school has a 100% pass rate on the USMLE?

 

[OSUdoc08]

That's just lumping them together by geographic location instead of the type of school they are. I don't think there's any argument that the top Carib schools are in a class of their own; most of the other schools don't even have licensure in all fifty states, so how could you even lump them together with Ross, SGU, and AUC?

And which DO school has a 100% pass rate on the USMLE?

OSU-COM

(with the mean pass rate comparable to top tier MD schools AND with a majority of the class taking the USMLE)

 

[OSUdoc08]

That's just lumping them together by geographic location instead of the type of school they are. I don't think there's any argument that the top Carib schools are in a class of their own; most of the other schools don't even have licensure in all fifty states, so how could you even lump them together with Ross, SGU, and AUC?

And which DO school has a 100% pass rate on the USMLE?

Ok, then lets say:

The top DO schools vs. Ross, SGU, and AUC.

Does that make you feel better?

The top DO schools still have the better pass rates.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Which are the top DO schools?

It depends on what you base it on. If you base it on USMLE pass rates, then I would need to know the pass rates of all of the schools

I only know that TCOM's and OSU-COM's are high. Others can help me out with more schools.

 

[Shinken]

I don't think there's any argument that the top Carib schools are in a class of their own; most of the other schools don't even have licensure in all fifty states, so how could you even lump them together with Ross, SGU, and AUC?

As I understand, only Ross has licensure in all fifty states. Texas doesn't readily recognize the education obtained at AUC or SGU. Not to say that you couldn't get a license in Texas from AUC or SGU, but you probably would have to prove that the education was "substantially equivalent" to that of a US school.

Check this link: http://www.tmb.state.tx.us/professionals/physicians/applicants/physicianapplicants.php

Indiana also might present problems to applicants: http://www.in.gov/pla/bandc/mlbi/instinfo.html

DO schools don't have that problem in any state. Something to think about.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

As I understand, only Ross has licensure in all fifty states. Texas doesn't readily recognize the education obtained at AUC or SGU. Not to say that you couldn't get a license in Texas from AUC or SGU, but you probably would have to prove that the education was "substantially equivalent" to that of a US school.

Check this link: http://www.tmb.state.tx.us/professionals/physicians/applicants/physicianapplicants.php

Indiana also might present problems to applicants: http://www.in.gov/pla/bandc/mlbi/instinfo.html

DO schools don't have that problem in any state. Something to think about.

i think ross has been the first to fight the texas thing, which is why they're explicitly approved in texas. if ross can prevail there, i don't see why sgu or auc would have problems.

you are right, though, that do's have no practice limitations. also, a big disadvantage of caribbean schools in that some states require that all your core rotations be done at greenbook sites affiliated with your school. apparently, this often requires a lot of legwork (and moving) on the part of the student, and i've heard that caribbean schools don't always make this easy for their students.

 

[Megalofyia]

From what I understand SGU and AUC didn't fight Texas cause they weren't given a hard enough time by Texas to warrent the fight. I know I have a friend at AUC who wants to do residency in Texas and he and talked to residency directors in Texas and it didn't look like it was going to be a problem to do a residency in Texas from AUC provided he did his rotations at approved locations.

The other thing to consider when comparing board scores from the Carribean to DO schools is that the Carribean schools frequently dont allow all of their students to take the boards until they pass subject tests first. Thus only the students they think are going to pass first time are even allowed to take the exams.

This also does address the number of students who start out at AUC, Ross, or SGU and then drop out or transfer to other Carribean schools. Something that happens with much less frequency at DO schools.

 

[DD214_DOC]

Megal,

Just out of sheer curiosity, do you not attend WVSOM or what? You give the impression that you do with your fervent defense of it, particularly in post #19 on this thread.

However, your MDapplicants profile linked in your signature has no mention of WVSOM or any other DO school for that matter.

I was under the impression you were a student at WVSOM.

 

[EMTLizzy]

Megal,

Just out of sheer curiosity, do you not attend WVSOM or what? You give the impression that you do with your fervent defense of it, particularly in post #19 on this thread.

However, your MDapplicants profile linked in your signature has no mention of WVSOM or any other DO school for that matter.

I was under the impression you were a student at WVSOM.

I can confirm that Mega does indeed go there. Though I only rarely see her since she hides in the PBL rooms. 🙂

You may have seen her when you interviewed and not even known it. 😉 She looks nothing like her avatar.

 

[Megalofyia]

I can confirm that Mega does indeed go there. Though I only rarely see her since she hides in the PBL rooms. 🙂

You may have seen her when you interviewed and not even known it. 😉 She looks nothing like her avatar.

No but I do look a lot like the picture in my profile. 😉

The link just says if you must know.. it never says that it's actually MY MDapplicant's profile. Mostly I dont have one so it'd be pretty difficult to find it.

 

[DD214_DOC]

I can confirm that Mega does indeed go there. Though I only rarely see her since she hides in the PBL rooms. 🙂

You may have seen her when you interviewed and not even known it. 😉 She looks nothing like her avatar.

So the green rabbit I saw hopping around wasn't her?

I like the copies of the game, "Operation" in the PBL room we visited. I'm sure it's an effective study aide along with the dry erase boards and textbooks. 😀

 

[NRAI2001]

We can't really do that, because average board scores are different when comparing 2 schools head-to-head. It really has to do with how good the education and preparation is at a particular school.

I agree that the individual may have a similar performance if they were able to be accepted to both schools, since many caribbean schools don't even require the MCAT and certainly don't care about GPA at all, but the extra boost of the better education would certainly can't be overlooked.

All of the top carrib. school require the mcat, you should get your facts straight before making blanket comments like that.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

All of the top carrib. school require the mcat, you should get your facts straight before making blanket comments like that.

yes, osudoc is not the most factual source of info on caribbean schools.

 

[NRAI2001]

SGU, Ross, and AUC are all fine schools. I hear Saba is getting up there. SGU has better clinical placement but AUC's island is a lot nicer (though very expensive to live on.)

Back to the original point of this thread, I'm tempted to try at least one more time to get into a DO school and adding USMD schools next year to broaden my application pool. However, doing so would be another year wasted.

The only problem I have with going to the Caribbean is that my wife wouldn't be able to work (RN) and I don't think we can financially live on just student loans with the obligations that would remain here.

My numbers and, subsequently, competitiveness increase with each semester, and it's getting to the point where it might be foolish and unnecessary to head to the Caribbean, particularly with my SGPA being above a 3.50 after this academic year. If I decide to retake the MCAT, I very well could be admitted through WVSOM's ED program regardless of this year's outcome.

I think you would have to substainially increase your mcat scores to be considered for most US allo schools. If you want to spend a fourth year applying its all up to you, i would have wanted to move on with my life after the second year of applying.

You are only actually in the carribean for 16 months and at AUC and SGU u have long breaks between semesters where you could come home and be with your wife. After you basic sciences she could probably move with you to where ever you did your clinicals since nurses are in demand in most areas.

 

[NRAI2001]

If you are going to isolate your comparison to only the top caribbean schools, then you must compare them to the top osteopathic schools to be fair.

In this case, the top osteopathic schools have a HIGHER pass rate than the top caribbean schools.

In your example of SGU --> there are DO schools that have a 100% board pass rate.

If you want to discuss the average of ALL DO schools, then you must also use the average of ALL caribbean schools.

 

[NRAI2001]

If you are going to isolate your comparison to only the top caribbean schools, then you must compare them to the top osteopathic schools to be fair.

In this case, the top osteopathic schools have a HIGHER pass rate than the top caribbean schools.

In your example of SGU --> there are DO schools that have a 100% board pass rate.

If you want to discuss the average of ALL DO schools, then you must also use the average of ALL caribbean schools.

Well my carribean school can beat up your DO school ( i don't really attend a carribean school).

 

[OSUdoc08]

All of the top carrib. school require the mcat, you should get your facts straight before making blanket comments like that.

You're right. I never said they didn't.

 

[OSUdoc08]

yes, osudoc is not the most factual source of info on caribbean schools.

Describe the erroneous information please...

 

[dr.z]

I think you would have to substainially increase your mcat scores to be considered for most US allo schools. If you want to spend a fourth year applying its all up to you, i would have wanted to move on with my life after the second year of applying.

SC state schools have MCAT score average near 30. If you want a good shot at allopathic schools, you should re-take the MCAT again. Also AMCAS does not replace your re-takes with more recent grade. They average the old and new grade so your calculation may be different.