What Would Your Life Look Like: $400k / Year?

[AD04]

If you were given $400k / year (adjusted for inflation) with the condition of giving up your medical license forever, what would you do with the rest of your life?

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[bravotwozero]

Live large baby. $400k a year for life means I don’t have to worry about retirement, just taxes. I might find kids college, take vacations, if I can land a non medical gig that I enjoy, I’ll take it, otherwise I can find plenty of things ti occupy my time with. Given all the free time and money, I’d probably be cooking all of my meals at home

 

[Entadus]

Save aggressively for 2.5 years, buy a modest house (in CA) with cash.
Stay at home dad for a few years, possibly take on home schooling my daughter.
Go back to school (MBA or business) and new career as entrepreneur. More time spent investing.
Increase the travel budget (time and $) substantially. South America, Europe. Bring the parents, in-laws.
Resume some expensive hobbies I haven't touched in years (skiing, aviation).

To be honest I'd be a bit sad about quitting medicine before I'd even started. But overall this would be a huge blessing since I'm sure I could find other avenues for my time and energy.

 

[mvenus929]

Be sad.

And then just enjoy life cause that's more than I'm making now working in medicine (by about double). Maybe do some research or teaching just to fill the time.

 

[Mad Jack]

Travel until I die. Learn a few new languages. Learn how to make authentic food from all over the world. Use any extra funds for anonymous acts of kindness for those in need that I come across.

 

[LADoc00]

I have passive income streams that exceed that per year and I still work. Why? No clue. I wake up in the morning and feel like this is my only skill in life so I have to keep plugging away in order to do something.

Trust me, decades into the grind and you will be surprised how the whole system has evolved to keep you stuck in. I complain constantly how much I hate our healthcare system and still just keep stumbling ahead. I probably have drinks with a buddy once a month who simply cant fathom what exactly I am still doing working. My attorney actually cut ties with me because he was disgusted I wasn't traveling more and enjoying life..one day I guess.

 

[dpmd]

I guess alternate between vacations and the non-medical volunteer work I do. Plus maybe see if I can still do international medical volunteer work without a license because I do actually enjoy medicine. And if it is guaranteed for life I would find some worthwhile charitable things to do with my current liquid assets and rental income instead of waiting till I die to do so.

Currently live off around 100k a year and don't feel deprived so I'm not sure if I would increase my spending more than 100k per year on a regular basis. I have fairly simple tastes so besides buying out a waterpark and magic mountain for a day or two for my family and friends I can't think of something really big ticket that I would want enough to actually spend crazy money on (like I love lazy rivers and fantasize about having one at my house but the reality of the upkeep costs would probably make me say it isn't worth it)

 

[Mad Jack]

I have passive income streams that exceed that per year and I still work. Why? No clue. I wake up in the morning and feel like this is my only skill in life so I have to keep plugging away in order to do something.

Trust me, decades into the grind and you will be surprised how the whole system has evolved to keep you stuck in. I complain constantly how much I hate our healthcare system and still just keep stumbling ahead. I probably have drinks with a buddy once a month who simply cant fathom what exactly I am still doing working. My attorney actually cut ties with me because he was disgusted I wasn't traveling more and enjoying life..one day I guess.

I say I'll be free someday but this is probably what will actually happen. I'm a workaholic at heart, unfortunately

 

[Entadus]

This is basically a FIRE question. $400k income is more or less equivalent to a forced early retirement with $10MM nestegg at 4% withdrawal rate. Even for those who have considered what their ideal retirement would look like, it still takes a lot of soul-searching to answer this type of question

 

[LADoc00]

I say I'll be free someday but this is probably what will actually happen. I'm a workaholic at heart, unfortunately

Escaping this “lifestyle” and it is a lifestyle folks is far harder than you would ever imagine from the perspective of a 25 year old…

 

[LADoc00]

This is basically a FIRE question. $400k income is more or less equivalent to a forced early retirement with $10MM nestegg at 4% withdrawal rate. Even for those who have considered what their ideal retirement would look like, it still takes a lot of soul-searching to answer this type of question

Yup...FIRE is absolutely great in theory however medicine is so all consuming it becomes the core part of your self identity to level that is literally unimaginable.

Here is a lifetime income stream you basically do nothing but push paper around for BUT you must trade it for your core self identity. You go from Dr. Nobody to Mr. and Mrs. Nobody.

This is the Faustian Bargain. Some are willing to take, but it will surprise you one day most of your colleagues wont take it.

 

[AD04]

It's interesting that a lot of answers include some type of work, whether paid or volunteer. Almost every week, I ask myself what I would do if it wasn't medicine. I came up with a few possibilities and they mostly involved work as well:

- live in Taiwan and become fluent in Mandarin (no clue what I would do after I became fluent)
- live in Columbia and become fluent in Spanish (no clue what I would do after I became fluent)
- break into the financial world and start a hedge fund (why spend time to make more money that I don't need or even lose it all because of a bad trade)
- travel the world and work out and date a lot (which will get dull after a few years due to hedonistic adaptation)
- become a monk (which will likely end up with me giving away all I own)

At the end of the day, does any of the alternatives add more value to the world than what I am doing now? Aside from becoming a monk and saving souls, I can't say the alternatives add much value.

I have passive income streams that exceed that per year and I still work. Why? No clue. I wake up in the morning and feel like this is my only skill in life so I have to keep plugging away in order to do something.

Trust me, decades into the grind and you will be surprised how the whole system has evolved to keep you stuck in. I complain constantly how much I hate our healthcare system and still just keep stumbling ahead. I probably have drinks with a buddy once a month who simply cant fathom what exactly I am still doing working. My attorney actually cut ties with me because he was disgusted I wasn't traveling more and enjoying life..one day I guess.

Do tell more about these passive income streams. Real estate syndications?

Your attorney turned away money because he didn't approve of you working instead of spending?

 

[thesauce]

It's interesting that a lot of answers include some type of work, whether paid or volunteer. Almost every week, I ask myself what I would do if it wasn't medicine. I came up with a few possibilities and they mostly involved work as well:

- live in Taiwan and become fluent in Mandarin (no clue what I would do after I became fluent)
- live in Columbia and become fluent in Spanish (no clue what I would do after I became fluent)
- break into the financial world and start a hedge fund (why spend time to make more money that I don't need or even lose it all because of a bad trade)
- travel the world and work out and date a lot (which will get dull after a few years due to hedonistic adaptation)
- become a monk (which will likely end up with me giving away all I own)

At the end of the day, does any of the alternatives add more value to the world than what I am doing now? Aside from becoming a monk and saving souls, I can't say the alternatives add much value.



Do tell more about these passive income streams. Real estate syndications?

Your attorney turned away money because he didn't approve of you working instead of spending?

Yeah that part about his attorney made no sense

 

[forchinet121]

It's interesting that a lot of answers include some type of work, whether paid or volunteer. Almost every week, I ask myself what I would do if it wasn't medicine. I came up with a few possibilities and they mostly involved work as well:

- live in Taiwan and become fluent in Mandarin (no clue what I would do after I became fluent)
- live in Columbia and become fluent in Spanish (no clue what I would do after I became fluent)
- break into the financial world and start a hedge fund (why spend time to make more money that I don't need or even lose it all because of a bad trade)
- travel the world and work out and date a lot (which will get dull after a few years due to hedonistic adaptation)
- become a monk (which will likely end up with me giving away all I own)

At the end of the day, does any of the alternatives add more value to the world than what I am doing now? Aside from becoming a monk and saving souls, I can't say the alternatives add much value.



Do tell more about these passive income streams. Real estate syndications?

Your attorney turned away money because he didn't approve of you working instead of spending?

Are you married or have kids? Focusing on them takes a lot of effort and being involved is extremely fulfilling

 

[SCallergydoc]

$400k before taxes and necessities doesn't go far enough to support everyone's pipe dreams.. Kids cost money---Tuition at top 20 school undergrad $70k plus (after taxes). My health insurance is $25k/year for two---would be after taxes for you. Inflation now 6-8%. Last year of club soccer was $11k for my son. You can certainly do this with a modest lifestyle but travel the world?---Good luck

 

[Entadus]

$400k before taxes and necessities doesn't go far enough to support everyone's pipe dreams.. Kids cost money---Tuition at top 20 school undergrad $70k plus (after taxes). My health insurance is $25k/year for two---would be after taxes for you. Inflation now 6-8%. Last year of club soccer was $11k for my son. You can certainly do this with a modest lifestyle but travel the world?---Good luck

Welp, you heard it here first, folks. $10MM nest egg is just not enough to retire in style anymore. How much do you suggest saving? How much do you think needs to be spent to "support everyone's pipe dreams"?

And $400K minus income taxes = $260K
Minus tuition for eldest child $70K (so they don't have ANY scholarships? Not working at all? Have to go to most expensive schools?) = $190K.
Minus health insurance $25K = $165K
Minus club soccer for 2 younger kids $22K (assuming this is your kids' pipe dream) = $143K
Minus food (restaurants and Whole Foods) $23K (that's some nice food) = $120K
Minus auto savings and maintenance, gas $20K (I suppose some people would want 10X as much..) = $100K
Minus LOTS of travel $50K (Who can't travel the world on this?) = $50K
Minus entertainment, gifts, luxuries like clothing and jewelry $10K (for me it would be perfume, suits, etc) = $40K
The rest could be spent on property taxes, home maintenance, misc. expenses
Assuming house is paid for, no need for costly insurances like life, disability, malpractice, and no need to save more for retirement.

what else do you need?

I suggest reading some Mr Money Mustache. Not because he's right and you're wrong. But because your viewpoint and his represent 2 opposite ends of a spectrum. Some balance is needed.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

22k for club soccer??? I can see hockey or something (paying for ice time, gear etc) but how does soccer cost that much? When I was a kid pretty sure it was like 300 for the season.

 

[deleted1133766]

$400k before taxes and necessities doesn't go far enough to support everyone's pipe dreams.. Kids cost money---Tuition at top 20 school undergrad $70k plus (after taxes). My health insurance is $25k/year for two---would be after taxes for you. Inflation now 6-8%. Last year of club soccer was $11k for my son. You can certainly do this with a modest lifestyle but travel the world?---Good luck

400K before taxes is a lot of money to A LOT of people.

Someone making 300K before taxes can retire with at least $10 million after 35 years, send their kids to college, AND see the world.

Maybe you live in a really big house and drive fancy cars.
My two rules

1. A house is a money pit
2. A car is a depreciating asset

Choose both wisely

 

[AD04]

Are you married or have kids? Focusing on them takes a lot of effort and being involved is extremely fulfilling

Let's say I would be terrible dad and a terrible father, an ok boyfriend, and an excellent daddy.

I'm not wired to put efforts into or find fulfillment in wife and kids. I don't look forward to playing catch with kids or drive a minivan or go on a family trip to Disney World. And there are too many downsides of making them your objective in life. They can die. Wife can leave and take half of all you own. Wife an start getting lazy and fat and entitled. Kids can turn out to be degenerates of society. Even if they are not degenerates, what is the chance of kids turn out to be better than an already accomplished parent? Quite low and most kids are not as accomplished which is why generational wealth is hard to establish without a structure in place (e.g. trust). Would the effort you spend on wife and kids be more valuable than efforts spent at work? What if the extra time you spend at work saves someone who makes advances in civilization?

The rational thing to do in a society without alimony or child support is to get multiple women pregnant and have a lot of kids (kind of like what Elon Musk is doing) and then focus your attention on the most successful ones. I believe in healthy competition to keep people the best version of themselves (including for myself).

 

[Splenda88]

Move to Malaysia and live like a king.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Welp, you heard it here first, folks. $10MM nest egg is just not enough to retire in style anymore. How much do you suggest saving? How much do you think needs to be spent to "support everyone's pipe dreams"?

And $400K minus income taxes = $260K
Minus tuition for eldest child $70K (so they don't have ANY scholarships? Not working at all? Have to go to most expensive schools?) = $190K.
Minus health insurance $25K = $165K
Minus club soccer for 2 younger kids $22K (assuming this is your kids' pipe dream) = $143K
Minus food (restaurants and Whole Foods) $23K (that's some nice food) = $120K
Minus auto savings and maintenance, gas $20K (I suppose some people would want 10X as much..) = $100K
Minus LOTS of travel $50K (Who can't travel the world on this?) = $50K
Minus entertainment, gifts, luxuries like clothing and jewelry $10K (for me it would be perfume, suits, etc) = $40K
The rest could be spent on property taxes, home maintenance, misc. expenses
Assuming house is paid for, no need for costly insurances like life, disability, malpractice, and no need to save more for retirement.

what else do you need?

I suggest reading some Mr Money Mustache. Not because he's right and you're wrong. But because your viewpoint and his represent 2 opposite ends of a spectrum. Some balance is needed.

You're looking at this the wrong way. 400k/year in retirement is a whole different story than 400k/year in your 30s or 40s.

I'm 39, my wife and I both have medical school loans. Our kids are in private school. We have a mortgage. We have health, life, and disability insurance to pay for. We're putting money away for retirement.

At retirement, the house will be paid off. God willing the kids will be able to support themselves and be done with all educational expenses. Outside of Medicare premiums, we will have no other insurance to pay for. We won't be saving for retirement. Our student loans will be paid off.

Most people can live on significantly less in retirement because their expenses have significantly decreased.

Could we live on $400,000 a year right now? Of course, but it would be a decrease in our lifestyle. Conversely, $400,000 a year in retirement would be absolutely amazing.

 

[deleted1133766]

You're looking at this the wrong way. 400k/year in retirement is a whole different story than 400k/year in your 30s or 40s.

I'm 39, my wife and I both have medical school loans. Our kids are in private school. We have a mortgage. We have health, life, and disability insurance to pay for. We're putting money away for retirement.

At retirement, the house will be paid off. God willing the kids will be able to support themselves and be done with all educational expenses. Outside of Medicare premiums, we will have no other insurance to pay for. We won't be saving for retirement. Our student loans will be paid off.

Most people can live on significantly less in retirement because their expenses have significantly decreased.

Could we live on $400,000 a year right now? Of course, but it would be a decrease in our lifestyle. Conversely, $400,000 a year in retirement would be absolutely amazing.

I'm confused with what you're saying.

Are you saying $400K is not enough money to finance your current "lifestyle?"

I think the person you are quoting was suggesting that a lot of people spend money excessively and that is why they do not have more at retirement.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I'm confused with what you're saying.

Are you saying $400K is not enough money to finance your current "lifestyle?"

I think the person you are quoting was suggesting that a lot of people spend money excessively and that is why they do not have more at retirement.

It is not since as a family we currently make more than that.

 

[deleted1133766]

It is not since as a family we currently make more than that.

I think the person you were quoting was suggesting that a lot of people have inflated lifestyles.

To each their own though. I don't judge.

 

[forchinet121]

I think the person you were quoting was suggesting that a lot of people have inflated lifestyles.

To each their own though. I don't judge.

Who cares what that poster is saying? If I live off 500k do you think I care what you think? Everyone has their own limits, priorities, etc. so telling someone they have an “inflated” lifestyle is completely pointless.

 

[deleted1133766]

Who cares what that poster is saying? If I live off 500k do you think I care what you think? Everyone has their own limits, priorities, etc. so telling someone they have an “inflated” lifestyle is completely pointless.

Take it easy man

The point was that you can retire wealthy even at the lowest income when you are a doctor. "Inflated" lifestyles will hinder that however.

You're right though, what should anybody care about someone else's lifestyle.

 

[Splenda88]

It is not since as a family we currently make more than that.

Are we talking about 400k net income?

You must have a great lifestyle if 33.3k month is not enough to finance your lifestyle...especially for someone who lives in SC.

 

[dpmd]

You're looking at this the wrong way. 400k/year in retirement is a whole different story than 400k/year in your 30s or 40s.

I'm 39, my wife and I both have medical school loans. Our kids are in private school. We have a mortgage. We have health, life, and disability insurance to pay for. We're putting money away for retirement.

At retirement, the house will be paid off. God willing the kids will be able to support themselves and be done with all educational expenses. Outside of Medicare premiums, we will have no other insurance to pay for. We won't be saving for retirement. Our student loans will be paid off.

Most people can live on significantly less in retirement because their expenses have significantly decreased.

Could we live on $400,000 a year right now? Of course, but it would be a decrease in our lifestyle. Conversely, $400,000 a year in retirement would be absolutely amazing.

Would it really though for this scenario where the money is guaranteed for life? Also the idea that you will have fewer expenses in retirement doesn't necessarily hold true because health care tends to become more expensive as you age and there is a lot Medicare doesn't cover. The reduction of other expenses won't necessarily offset that plus the increased travel and spending on hobbies that tends to happen at retirement.

 

[deleted1133766]

Are we talking about 400k net income?

You must have a great lifestyle if 33.3k month is not enough to finance your lifestyle...especially for someone who lives in SC.

"Money talks, wealth whispers."

 

[Splenda88]

200k/yr with a 2000 sqft paid off home for the rest of my life would be a dream...

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Are we talking about 400k net income?

You must have a great lifestyle if 33.3k month is not enough to finance your lifestyle...especially for someone who lives in SC.

The OP didn't say net. We definitely don't net 400k.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Would it really though for this scenario where the money is guaranteed for life? Also the idea that you will have fewer expenses in retirement doesn't necessarily hold true because health care tends to become more expensive as you age and there is a lot Medicare doesn't cover. The reduction of other expenses won't necessarily offset that plus the increased travel and spending on hobbies that tends to happen at retirement.

Certainly possible, but it's much more likely to be lower. Student loans are 4k/month after taxes. Private school is around 2.5k/month (2 kids). Mortgage if we don't pay off early (and at 2.5% I don't plan to) will be gone when I turn 66. Add in various non-health insurances and we're talking saving 11k/month or so. If even with Medicare I'm spending $120,000 a year on my medical care just go ahead and put me down.

 

[forchinet121]

The OP didn't say net. We definitely don't net 400k.

Net probably 260k?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Net probably 260k?

Something in that neighborhood.

 

[Mad Jack]

Yup...FIRE is absolutely great in theory however medicine is so all consuming it becomes the core part of your self identity to level that is literally unimaginable.

Here is a lifetime income stream you basically do nothing but push paper around for BUT you must trade it for your core self identity. You go from Dr. Nobody to Mr. and Mrs. Nobody.

This is the Faustian Bargain. Some are willing to take, but it will surprise you one day most of your colleagues wont take it.

It's interesting, I actually don't even talk about work outside of work unless it's with other people in the field. I feel like I'm a person who happens to be a doctor not a doctor who happens to be a person, and medicine certainly isn't core to my identity. My problem is that I need something, anything to do to keep busy or I start to go a bit crazy. I just can't relax after years of excessive work. Like, after a two week stretch with no days off I get this "I can put in a couple more" feeling, I'm a legitimate workaholic. I really love my life, so it doesn't make much sense because I'm not avoiding home or an empty social life or anything, my life outside of medicine is pretty great

 

[Monocles]

This is basically a FIRE question. $400k income is more or less equivalent to a forced early retirement with $10MM nestegg at 4% withdrawal rate. Even for those who have considered what their ideal retirement would look like, it still takes a lot of soul-searching to answer this type of question

Right??

400k annual passive income is a dream. I'd do it on the spot for 60k a year w/ annual adjustment to inflation. (basically goal of 2M w/ 3% SWR)

36k a year goes into mortgage, 24k a year to maintain our (very comfortable) standards of living.

 

[finalpsychyear]

400k a year if you take it from your portfolio is what 15 percent long term cap tax. if i live in florida thats 350k post tax.
Would be great if i can be there in 10 years lol.

 

[Saddleshoes]

If you were given $400k / year (adjusted for inflation) with the condition of giving up your medical license forever, what would you do with the rest of your life?

The old joke applies here...
"Well, I guess I would keep on farming until its gone."