What's your total monthly spending like as an attending?

[wamcp]

I'm genuinely curious as to how monthly spending tracks amongst attendings in this forum.

Helpful info to give a sense might include:

Years out from residency/fellowship?
Any kids?
$$ spent on food/discretionary
$$ spent on housing:
$$ spent on car payments:
$$ spent on student loans
$$ saved/invested per month:

etc etc etc

For me I'm 3.5 years out from residency, we have two kids, average total monthly spend at $7K and the rest goes towards investments. And income taxes of course.
Breakdown is roughly 3K to food/groceries/Amazon orders, $1.5K to property taxes, 1.5K to daycare, about 1K to everything else (insurance, utilities, gas etc). No debt; house/cars/student loans are all paid off.

When more travel 'reopens' might tack on 1K a month for vacationing.

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[CopperStripes]

6 years out from residency; married; no kids; no debt. Average monthly spend is around $2750. Breakdown is roughly $525 food/restaurants, $475 utilities and home maintenance; $325 various insurances; $150 TV/internet/phone; $150 vehicle maintenance and gas; a little over $1000 for other stuff (not including savings and investments). Like the OP, we'll likely increase our spending on travel and vacations after COVID settles down.

 

[doctalaughs]

15 years out, 2 kids.

Spend 16-17k/mo
- 6k mortgage (on a 10 year, almost paid off)
- 4K average/mo travel/vacation (less now with covid but planning to be more for a while with multiple trips planned.
- 4-5k groceries, eating out, utilities/ house stuff, repairs etc.
- 2k kids lessons activities etc

Save 13-15k mo
- max 401k, tax sheltered stuff (back door Roth, 529 to target, defined benefit practice acct etc)
- 3-5K taxable accounts.

Plan to cut back on work schedule in 3-5 years, retire (or work minimally) in 10, as investment returns make work minimally useful to portfolio over time.

 

[Mman]

10+ years out from residency, 2 kids

$2,000 per month for private school
$4,000 per month mortgage
$6,000 per month for everything else (insurance, food, amazon, cell phones, internet, TV, etc)

Occasional splurges for vacations or buying a car (with cash) every so often. But roughly spend $150K per year on the normal day to day stuff. Everything else plowed into 401K, pension, HSA, backdoor Roth, and taxable retirement account. While I work in a high paying job that lets me save ungodly amounts of money every year, we still live on a relatively modest budget. Hope to hit $10M net worth before age 50 and then cruise along quitting whenever I get sick of the grind.

 

[doctalaughs]

Hope to hit $10M net worth before age 50 and then cruise along quitting whenever I get sick of the grind.

Good goal. I’m fairly sure I can’t make it by 50 unless you count the real estate and 529s which I don’t... But I figure cut back to 60% schedule at 50 then cruise into that 10M assets across all accounts by 55-56 with an “easy” schedule that keeps me from being bored (and then maybe do 25% just for fun).

 

[dpmd]

9 yrs out, married, no kids
2.5k mortgage
1.2k prorated monthly amount of all the yearly or twice a year bills like property taxes for our home and two rentals, insurance for home and cars, life/disability insurance, car registrations
About 3 to 4k everything else (utilities, student loan payments, pool and lawn services, credit card spending which is food, gas, random **** I decide to get at costco, etc)
Put max to husband's 401k (19500 or whatever it is this year), max to my solo 401k (56000 or whatever it is this year) and at least 50k a year to taxable investing. Haven't been doing backdoor roths due to having some regular ira funds still. Everything left over each month eventually goes to high interest (relatively speaking) savings accounts until invested or whatever.

 

[robellis]

10+ years out from residency, 2 kids

$2,000 per month for private school
$4,000 per month mortgage
$6,000 per month for everything else (insurance, food, amazon, cell phones, internet, TV, etc)

Occasional splurges for vacations or buying a car (with cash) every so often. But roughly spend $150K per year on the normal day to day stuff. Everything else plowed into 401K, pension, HSA, backdoor Roth, and taxable retirement account. While I work in a high paying job that lets me save ungodly amounts of money every year, we still live on a relatively modest budget. Hope to hit $10M net worth before age 50 and then cruise along quitting whenever I get sick of the grind.

What field are you in? What’s an ungodly amount of money?

 

[Mman]

What field are you in? What’s an ungodly amount of money?

Anesthesia but lots of my income is from business type things and not directly from clinical care, currently save >$500K per year.

 

[TraderDoc]

32 years old, single w/ no kids
Hospitalist roughly $400K/year with moonlighting, 3 years out

$3000/month spent on discretionary (restaurants / groceries / gas / bars / vacation)
$4700/month on mortgage (includes cable TV / internet / most utilities with HOA)
$1300/month on car
$1500/month on student loans
$5300/month left over to invest in taxable brokerage account per month for investing / day and swing trading.

 

[doctalaughs]

Anesthesia but lots of my income is from business type things and not directly from clinical care, currently save >$500K per year.

Good job- definitely an ungodly amount and not realistic after taxes on (even robust) clinical collections alone.

If you are 10 y out with a healthy start I would think you could hit 15M net worth by 50 at that rate (and 40M by 60 if you care to work that long). I save far less and project close to 10 so that’s setting your sights low. Kudos.

 

[Baron Samedi]

32 years old, single w/ no kids
Hospitalist roughly $400K/year with moonlighting, 3 years out

$3000/month spent on discretionary (restaurants / groceries / gas / bars / vacation)
$4700/month on mortgage (includes cable TV / internet / most utilities with HOA)
$1300/month on car
$1500/month on student loans
$5300/month left over to invest in taxable brokerage account per month for investing / day and swing trading.

Please tell me you live in LA, DC, or NYC.

 

[chocomorsel]

Please tell me you live in LA, DC, or NYC.

YOLO!!!

 

[FlowRate]

Was just recently comparing my actual spending to my budget projection from last year and was spot on, so have the numbers handy. Nothing as impressive as some of the folks above.

31/single/no kids/first year as an attending
Net Monthly Income: ~$16000
Rent/Internet/Utilities/Parking in Luxury Apt: $2700
Toward Student Loans (~$100k): ~$3500
Max 401k/Roth: ~$2000
Car Payment + Insurance: $650
Misc Other: $2000

Which leaves about $5000/mo left over accruing in savings. Saving for eventual home down payment, or something. Should probably also start putting a bit into a taxable investment account, because just maxing 401k/Roth won't get me where I want to go. That's definitely the plan once the student loans are paid off.

 

[doctalaughs]

Was just recently comparing my actual spending to my budget projection from last year and was spot on, so have the numbers handy. Nothing as impressive as some of the folks above.

31/single/no kids/first year as an attending
Net Monthly Income: ~$16000
Rent/Internet/Utilities/Parking in Luxury Apt: $2700
Toward Student Loans (~$100k): ~$3500
Max 401k/Roth: ~$2000
Car Payment + Insurance: $650
Misc Other: $2000

Which leaves about $5000/mo left over accruing in savings. Saving for eventual home down payment, or something. Should probably also start putting a bit into a taxable investment account, because just maxing 401k/Roth won't get me where I want to go. That's definitely the plan once the student loans are paid off.

Look for more tax shelter strategies for that 5k/mo. Depending on your job situation may be able to do mega-back door Roth, or setup defined benefit, or at least save some in HSA.

Most situations can get way past 24k/yr in tax sheltered vehicles.

 

[FlowRate]

Look for more tax shelter strategies for that 5k/mo. Depending on your job situation may be able to do mega-back door Roth, or setup defined benefit, or at least save some in HSA.

Most situations can get way past 24k/yr in tax sheltered vehicles.

Thanks for bringing this up, looks like we do have Roth 401(k) option and ability to contribute after-tax more generically. We have our stuff through Vanguard and I don't find their site super transparent, I'll probably need to contact HR/Vanguard to figure out whether I can do a mega-backdoor. Does a mega-backdoor affect the backdoor Roth IRA that I already do each year?

 

[Smoothbrain]

Resident here:
- Single guy with a pug
- 1200 USD for rent
- 150 USD for gym, internet, phone
- 125 USD per week for food
- 300 USD invested or stored per week (I invest into CopyPortFolios on Etoro, energy companies, and aviation)
- No student loans (Im a FMG )
- Use the bicycle and bus (70 USD per month)

 

[robellis]

Resident here:
- Single guy with a pug
- 1200 USD for rent
- 150 USD for gym, internet, phone
- 125 USD per week for food
- 300 USD invested or stored per week (I invest into CopyPortFolios on Etoro, energy companies, and aviation)
- No student loans (Im a FMG )
- Use the bicycle and bus (70 USD per month)

Single guy with a pug? Loll

 

[Mman]

Single guy with a pug? Loll

i bet it gets chicks (if that's what you are into)

 

[abolt18]

Thanks for bringing this up, looks like we do have Roth 401(k) option and ability to contribute after-tax more generically. We have our stuff through Vanguard and I don't find their site super transparent, I'll probably need to contact HR/Vanguard to figure out whether I can do a mega-backdoor. Does a mega-backdoor affect the backdoor Roth IRA that I already do each year?

Mega-backdoor roth 401k will NOT affect your ability to do a backdoor Roth IRA.

 

[Smoothbrain]

i bet it gets chicks (if that's what you are into)

Hehe you figured it out very well! ; )

 

[emergentmd]

Years out from residency/fellowship? 20
Any kids? Married, single income, 3 kids
$$ spent on food/discretionary 9k including vacations, amazon, everything else
$$ spent on housing: 7k/mo including all utilities, property tax, P&I, insurance, maintenence
$$ spent on car payments: 700/mo
$$ spent on student loans 0 but $1500/mo on private school, 1k/mo donations
$$ saved/invested per month:10-15k/mo

 

[FutureInternist]

Thanks for bringing this up, looks like we do have Roth 401(k) option and ability to contribute after-tax more generically. We have our stuff through Vanguard and I don't find their site super transparent, I'll probably need to contact HR/Vanguard to figure out whether I can do a mega-backdoor. Does a mega-backdoor affect the backdoor Roth IRA that I already do each year?

From my understanding the max that you can put into a 401K is combined across all of them(Roth or not), so if you have enough to max pre-tax 401K , would that not be the better option?

Once maxed on that, one could then do 457/NQDC, then do HSA (which is a pesudo-401k) and THEN post-tax Roth IRA?

Also, since you’re a new attending, don’t forget 3-6 months of expenses saved, short term and long term disability, life insurance.

Additionally, look into “doctors loan” for house which requires 5% down rather than the usual 20

 

[FlowRate]

From my understanding the max that you can put into a 401K is combined across all of them(Roth or not), so if you have enough to max pre-tax 401K , would that not be the better option?

Once maxed on that, one could then do 457/NQDC, then do HSA (which is a pesudo-401k) and THEN post-tax Roth IRA?

Also, since you’re a new attending, don’t forget 3-6 months of expenses saved, short term and long term disability, life insurance.

Additionally, look into “doctors loan” for house which requires 5% down rather than the usual 20

From what I was reading, mega-backdoor roth uses a different max related to the employer-matched cap. My employer doesn't match so it's $57000-19500 = $37500

No 457 because for-profit and no HSA.

Yeah, all those other ducks are in a row.

 

[FutureInternist]

From what I was reading, mega-backdoor roth uses a different max related to the employer-matched cap. My employer doesn't match so it's $57000-19500 = $37500

No 457 because for-profit and no HSA.

Yeah, all those other ducks are in a row.

Mega- backdoor Roth is a separate beast and I do not know anything about it.

For profit have a 457 like option called “Nonqualified Deferred Compensation” that have the same rules.
Usually the max for that is 50% of salary.
The biggest hang up that people have about 457/ NQDC is that the $ is available to creditors in the event of bankruptcy or lawsuit.

HSA - Get it.
You will use it for medical expenses at some point in your life and since it comes off the “top” of your salary, and since it untaxed if used for medical expenses, it is like getting a 30% discount of medical bills.
Also, at 65 (Medicare enrollment age), whatever is left in HSA converts to a 401K so then you can use it for whatever and just pay the usual income tax you would... hence a “pseudo-401K”

 

[FlowRate]

Mega- backdoor Roth is a separate beast and I do not know anything about it.

For profit have a 457 like option called “Nonqualified Deferred Compensation” that have the same rules.
Usually the max for that is 50% of salary.
The biggest hang up that people have about 457/ NQDC is that the $ is available to creditors in the event of bankruptcy or lawsuit.

HSA - Get it.
You will use it for medical expenses at some point in your life and since it comes off the “top” of your salary, and since it untaxed if used for medical expenses, it is like getting a 30% discount of medical bills.
Also, at 65 (Medicare enrollment age), whatever is left in HSA converts to a 401K so then you can use it for whatever and just pay the usual income tax you would... hence a “pseudo-401K”

Oh I see--I mentioned having Roth 401(k) and after-tax options in the same employer account because you need those as the pieces to doing a mega-backdoor (it implies I could do a mega backdoor but I haven't looked into whether the other details are right yet.)

HSA are great if you have minimal health expenditures.

 

[dpmd]

Mega- backdoor Roth is a separate beast and I do not know anything about it.

For profit have a 457 like option called “Nonqualified Deferred Compensation” that have the same rules.
Usually the max for that is 50% of salary.
The biggest hang up that people have about 457/ NQDC is that the $ is available to creditors in the event of bankruptcy or lawsuit.

HSA - Get it.
You will use it for medical expenses at some point in your life and since it comes off the “top” of your salary, and since it untaxed if used for medical expenses, it is like getting a 30% discount of medical bills.
Also, at 65 (Medicare enrollment age), whatever is left in HSA converts to a 401K so then you can use it for whatever and just pay the usual income tax you would... hence a “pseudo-401K”

You can't just get an HSA. You have to have a high deductible plan. If your options are paying extra money for a high deductible plan or paying nothing to get an hmo plan that covers everything with minimal co-pays then the benefit of an HSA isn't exactly worthwhile.

 

[FutureInternist]

You can't just get an HSA. You have to have a high deductible plan. If your options are paying extra money for a high deductible plan or paying nothing to get an hmo plan that covers everything with minimal co-pays then the benefit of an HSA isn't exactly worthwhile.

Sure... and all the jobs that I know of have a HDHP for docs.

Sure the deductible can vary but the HSA max for a single person is around $3500, if I remember, so likely its beneficial.

Even if the deductible is higher than the max HSA, I would still recommend ‘cos you get a 30% “discount” as well as the ability to convert it to a 401K in retirement.

 

[FutureInternist]

Oh I see--I mentioned having Roth 401(k) and after-tax options in the same employer account because you need those as the pieces to doing a mega-backdoor (it implies I could do a mega backdoor but I haven't looked into whether the other details are right yet.)

HSA are great if you have minimal health expenditures.

HSA’s are great for any amount of expenditure.

If minimal, that $ rolls over and once you reach a minimum, you can start investing it just like a 401K.

If maximum, then you get the 30% discount since its pre-tax $ that will not be taxed when spent on medical expenses.

 

[Chemist0157]

Little more than 2.5 years out of fellowship.
Married, two kiddos.

Spend about $10,500 monthly.
2.5K is budgeted for loans (though tend to do more).
1.8K is giving.
2.8K is mortgage.
No car payments.

Maximize Roth IRA (backdoor). All equities.
Maximize 401K through work. 90/10 stocks/bonds.
Have an HSA through the practice insurance (contribution comes from the practice).
Have about 5K in a brokerage account, play money.
We keep an emergency fund, and just about all the rest goes to loans right now. Hopefully, those will be finally done within the next couple of years.
Talking about 529s.
Will probably get into some rental properties as where we live is a vacation/visiting destination, or we would look at where I did training as it's a little down the road but fairly cheap place to live. I wouldn't mind renting to a medical student/resident/fellow as they move in and out of the area.

 

[dpmd]

Sure... and all the jobs that I know of have a HDHP for docs.

Sure the deductible can vary but the HSA max for a single person is around $3500, if I remember, so likely its beneficial.

Even if the deductible is higher than the max HSA, I would still recommend ‘cos you get a 30% “discount” as well as the ability to convert it to a 401K in retirement.

Unless it costs extra to have to pay more of your health care expenses

 

[FlowRate]

HSA’s are great for any amount of expenditure.

If minimal, that $ rolls over and once you reach a minimum, you can start investing it just like a 401K.

If maximum, then you get the 30% discount since its pre-tax $ that will not be taxed when spent on medical expenses.

You sparked looking into my insurance options again. I thought our HDHP OOP max was higher than it actually is (if it was, it would definitely be a losing proposition). I probably spend about $1000 per year on copays on my HMO plan. I know I'd max our HDHP so that would be $3000. My company actually partially funds our HSA with $1600 so it'd be $1400 out of pocket. The tax benefits are a wash as I could pretty well estimate the majority of my expenditures and do an FSA. So I'm in the specific band where I benefit slightly or come out even from sticking with the HMO plan.

I guess I see why most people go with the HDHP here, as the effective OOP on the HDHP ($1400) is actually lower than on the HMO ($2000), although I think there are a few services that are not covered by the HDHP that are covered by the HMO.

 

[FutureInternist]

Little more than 2.5 years out of fellowship.
Married, two kiddos.

Spend about $10,500 monthly.
2.5K is budgeted for loans (though tend to do more).
1.8K is giving.
2.8K is mortgage.
No car payments.

Maximize Roth IRA (backdoor). All equities.
Maximize 401K through work. 90/10 stocks/bonds.
Have an HSA through the practice insurance (contribution comes from the practice).
Have about 5K in a brokerage account, play money.
We keep an emergency fund, and just about all the rest goes to loans right now. Hopefully, those will be finally done within the next couple of years.
Talking about 529s.
Will probably get into some rental properties as where we live is a vacation/visiting destination, or we would look at where I did training as it's a little down the road but fairly cheap place to live. I wouldn't mind renting to a medical student/resident/fellow as they move in and out of the area.

529s .... There is a limit to how much one can put in per year per child since anything past that is counted as more than a gift and subject to taxes. (i think its $30,000).

However, if you have a bunch of $ coming in, or get an inheritance etc, you can give more than that but for tax purposes say that you are spreading it out over 5 years.
This allows you to put in a big sum that will grow faster rather than putting in smaller sums each year.

Also, for those w/o kids but planning on it... you can open a 529 under your name and just transfer to kid when born, to allow for more than 18 years of savings

 

[dpmd]

You sparked looking into my insurance options again. I thought our HDHP OOP max was higher than it actually is (if it was, it would definitely be a losing proposition). I probably spend about $1000 per year on copays on my HMO plan. I know I'd max our HDHP so that would be $3000. My company actually partially funds our HSA with $1600 so it'd be $1400 out of pocket. The tax benefits are a wash as I could pretty well estimate the majority of my expenditures and do an FSA. So I'm in the specific band where I benefit slightly or come out even from sticking with the HMO plan.

I guess I see why most people go with the HDHP here, as the effective OOP on the HDHP ($1400) is actually lower than on the HMO ($2000), although I think there are a few services that are not covered by the HDHP that are covered by the HMO.

You have really high copays or just go to the doctor that much?

 

[FlowRate]

You have really high copays or just go to the doctor that much?

Probably an overestimate on medication copays, I think it's more accurately $600. It would be a lot more if there wasn't a mfr coupon. Although apparently those might not count toward the OOP max on the HMO plan (at least if the "$0 / $2000" out of pocket tracker on the website is to be trusted) but do on the HDHP.

 

[Mman]

529s .... There is a limit to how much one can put in per year per child since anything past that is counted as more than a gift and subject to taxes. (i think its $30,000).

However, if you have a bunch of $ coming in, or get an inheritance etc, you can give more than that but for tax purposes say that you are spreading it out over 5 years.
This allows you to put in a big sum that will grow faster rather than putting in smaller sums each year.

Also, for those w/o kids but planning on it... you can open a 529 under your name and just transfer to kid when born, to allow for more than 18 years of savings

as you note any individual can give $15,000 per year to a 529 for a kid since that is the annual gift limit. A married couple can give $30K per year. As you note out you can front load 5 years worth of contributions at a time if you would like, or $150K for a couple to a single child.