what?

[MaChien]

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About three weeks ago I got a job as a kennel tech, It was really stressful, no set hours, and my shifts were always being change, however, I always showed up on time. Twice, she called me to see if I could come in when i wasn't scheduled, (once, I told her no, because she called late the night before, I my mom needed the car) She called again last night around 8ish, to see if I could come in today from 8-1030. I was out grocery shopping for thanksgiving, I didn't get the message until 9 this morning. I called her up to apologize, and she laid me off....wtf?

To be honest, It wasn't the most enjoyable job in the world, I didn't hate it, but going made me sad. They have around....60 cats, some of them are older than me, one of them is 19, and hypothyroid. She craps all over herself, and has so little body fat, that she sits on a hot water-bottle all day. They have lots of cats with similar stories, they are so sick and miserable, I have no idea why they don't put the poor things out of pain, lots of them have such boogery eyes, they can't open them. They also don't bother to try to adopt out the healthy cats. Instead, they keep them locked up in the kennels, where they rarely get any attention.

They also have two dogs, beautiful dogs, but very untrained and unruly dogs. There lives are, in a back 5feet by 3feet kennel at night, and then in a airline kennel or strapped to a desk by day. They get walked, maybe twice a week if they are lucky, and do you know what kind of leash they use? one of those collars with the spikes sticking into a dogs neck.

I though people who did all the work involved with becoming a vet, did so because they hate seeing animals in pain, and just generally loved animals.. but after seeing this it made me sick.

So I'm off to go job/volunteer hunting.

Anyone else ever have a job/volunteer job that made you sick to see how the animals were treated?

 

[BlacKAT33]

omg that is so horrible. I think its a good thing you dont have to work there anymore.

"Anyone else ever have a job/volunteer job that made you sick to see how the animals were treated?"
This happened today and I was so turned off/very angry. A mouse that a tech was using in an experiment was not fully under before he took its eye out to draw blood. I told him he's not under when he first started but he didnt listen and once he took the eye out to start bleeding the mouse jumped out of his hand. He caught it and kept continuing. I yelled at him. I am still super mad about it actually. 😡😡😡

 

[CorporateFatCat]

I yelled at him. I am still super mad about it actually. 😡😡😡

I think you can report him, if you're really serious about the abuse. I think they have whistle blowing forms and such...as far as I know. I wish I could tell you more, but I've never done it, so I have no idea.

 

[TrocarKarin]

They get walked, maybe twice a week if they are lucky, and do you know what kind of leash they use? one of those collars with the spikes sticking into a dogs neck.

I'm not going to comment on the rest of your post (which seems like a bad situation,) but this jumped out at me. Prong/pinch collars look pretty bad, but when properly fitted and properly used, they're safer than choke chains, and don't cause a lot of the problems that gentle leaders/haltis do. If you ever get a chance, put on around your thigh and pull. Its a mild pinch.


I can't tell from the rest of your post, but was this at a vet's office or a rescue?

 

[dottoressa]

This happened today and I was so turned off/very angry. A mouse that a tech was using in an experiment was not fully under before he took its eye out to draw blood. I told him he's not under when he first started but he didnt listen and once he took the eye out to start bleeding the mouse jumped out of his hand. He caught it and kept continuing. I yelled at him. I am still super mad about it actually. 😡😡😡

You can definitely report that sort of abuse to the IACUC at your institution. It can be anonymous. In my experience, the vets are *very* concerned about such blatant abuse and will crack down on the offenders. The ones at my institution were not worried about speaking up. They were very respectful/tactful but had a zero-tolerance policy and were backed up by the institution 100%.

 

[BlacKAT33]

I think you can report him, if you're really serious about the abuse. I think they have whistle blowing forms and such...as far as I know. I wish I could tell you more, but I've never done it, so I have no idea.

Ya i have thought about reporting, Im actually interning with the vet for my dept so I could easily talk to him. It really just comes down to that if i make a big complaint it could easily turn my lab against me (only 3 other people so it could easily be done) and i need some for my letters of recommendation/future jobs/ plus i still have 9 months left. I know it sounds super bad, but i just cant manage to bomb everything ive worked for until i know ive gotten into vet school.
This doesn't happen that often, but it does happen often enough (once a month) that i still want to say something when I leave. I am very verbal about my opinion and I have even said something in front of my PI (multiple tiems). But sometimes... she doesnt really seem to care and claims that they really can't feel anything (even though they scream at the same time somethign is done to them). Ogod, i can't even write anymore it makes me feel sick when I think about them. It also sounds bad because i dont want people to think that all research abuses animals because thats not the case. Anyway, I know it would be impossible for my vet to catch this, unless he stays in our lab for every experiment done. This is what drives me more to want to be a lab animal vet. Because i know what can go on 'behind the scenes' even if they answer questions correctly during lab walk throughs with the vet.

edit: dottoressa- yes my vet would be concerned too. i guess i could talk to him and mention my worries also bout my relationship with my PI (because i still need a good one til im in vet school) and see if he could discretely talk with them? Im just so worried about it making a mess while im still here and before ive gotten into school! i really need a letter from here for vet school because its my biggest research and i may need it a second yr if i dont get in this yr

 

[Myotis]

MaChien-that sounds awful! I'm lucky enough to not have had any bad experiences to that magnitude. The only bad experience I had was when I volunteered at a therapeutic horseback riding facility, the horses were relatively well taken care of, but the trainer had no idea what he was doing. There was an arabian at the facility who was being used for therapeutic riding, which is fine, but the trainer started riding her when she wasn't even two, which is a huge no-no with arabians. She was four when I was there and had really bad back problems but was still being used. Some other horses had neck problems from having people yank the reins straight up.
The only other thing was when I went to a trail riding facility to go for a ride on the beach. The horses were seriously being abused. One almost keeled over and died during the ride. The tack didn't fit properly, their feet were overgrown, their teeth were overgrown, they were sick, had back problems, and were filthy. We reported them, but apparently they have been reported numerous times but nothing has ever really been done about it because the owner is rich and buys his way out of everything. It was disgusting.

Blackat-I totally understand your concerns about not wanting to lose letters of recommendation, but I really think you should say something. You may lose a letter of recommendation, but at least you'll know that you've done something. And, say during and interview at a vet school, you're asked some kind of question about animal abuse and ethical concerns of the use of lab animals, the fact that you stood up for these animals that are being abused and risked a letter of recommendation will say so much more about your love for animals and desire to be a good vet who treats animals well than any letter.

 

[Electrophile]

I'm not going to comment on the rest of your post (which seems like a bad situation,) but this jumped out at me. Prong/pinch collars look pretty bad, but when properly fitted and properly used, they're safer than choke chains, and don't cause a lot of the problems that gentle leaders/haltis do. If you ever get a chance, put on around your thigh and pull. Its a mild pinch.

Yeah, I was going to say, a well fit prong collar is one of the more humane training tools out there. Problem is getting people to fit them properly.

 

[MaChien]

I'm not going to comment on the rest of your post (which seems like a bad situation,) but this jumped out at me. Prong/pinch collars look pretty bad, but when properly fitted and properly used, they're safer than choke chains, and don't cause a lot of the problems that gentle leaders/haltis do. If you ever get a chance, put on around your thigh and pull. Its a mild pinch.


I can't tell from the rest of your post, but was this at a vet's office or a rescue?

Its a vet clinic/grooming/boarding kennel. And They also use the choke chains, I understand when they use them for clients dogs, (our safty first, the dogs can be super unruley) But these dogs live there. And as for the pronged collar on them, the dogs still pull, once i was walking jacky(one of the dogs) past a house with three little yappy dogs in the yard barking at Jacky, she lunged forward and screamed because the collar had dug into her neck. It made me really sick. The dogs live there for goodness sake! They could take the time to train them to heel! Especially because they are generally not very buisy, The woman who runs everything is, and does all the paperwork, but the vet has at the most two appointments a day.

 

[cuitlamiztli]

This doesn't happen that often, but it does happen often enough (once a month) that i still want to say something when I leave.

If I were in your situation I would report it now; nothing will change in the lab unless you or someone else does. In my opinion, waiting until you leave is too long.

I can understand being worried about a letter of recommendation (and the whole lab situation)... but, personally, I'd be uncomfortable with getting one from someone who a) knows that "I" am aware of situations like this in their lab and b) knows that "I" chose not to do something about it. I would also question whether I wanted someone who has an apparently blatant disregard for animal welfare recommending me for veterinary school.

I highly doubt that, should you report the situation and have it blow up in your face, an adcom would fault you for not having an LOR from your PI if they were made aware of the situation.

 

[sunshinevet]

They have around....60 cats, some of them are older than me, one of them is 19, and hypothyroid. She craps all over herself, and has so little body fat, that she sits on a hot water-bottle all day.

I know this seems really anal, but I don't want you going on thinking its hypothyroid when its actually hyperthyroid. Hypothyroid is different. Best to learn now 🙂

I don't understand why there are so many animals LIVING at a vet clinic. How strange. But seriously, theres no point staying at a crap vet. They just teach you the crap sides of practice, and not the good stuff.

And BlacKat, I would say something. As the others said, even if you lose the letter, even if you get fired, it won't "look bad". If it comes up in interview, why didnt your PI give you a letter when you did research, and you say what went down, im sure it will be FINE. But imagine how bad your going to continue to feel if you don't.

 

[Minnerbelle]

Yes, definitely report it. That's a gross violation of IACUC, and these types of things are what give researchers a bad reputation. For heaven sakes, there are rules about not being allowed to even have a terminal procedure in the same room as another live animal. Unweaned pups are NEVER allowed to be separated from the mother (even if they're going to be euthanized). If those things aren't okay, then unnecessarily torturing under-anesthesized animals is totally unacceptable.

After hearing this, I am soooo glad I work in a lab where my boss adores all of our mice! Sorry to hear that you're in this situation. That really sucks.

I have had to deal with icky situations in the past though... some of which were totally illegal. I won't go into those, but talk about treating a crowded facility full of animals with parvo through homeopaths... That disgusted me (especially because it happened more than once).