Whats a good number to apply for IM residency, for an IMG?

[Smashingdude]

I know the answer is the more you apply, the better your chances. I am well aware that you increase your chances. Its simple maths - probability, plug in some numbers, you will increase the likelihood of getting that one desired outcome.

But, lets face it, you have to weigh in the finance issue, and the specific requirements for the programs.

Therefore, what do you think is the bare minimum number that at least guarantees you will have 10-15 interviews. I am referring to IM specifically.

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[ThoracicGuy]

I know the answer is the more you apply, the better your chances. I am well aware that you increase your chances. Its simple maths - probability, plug in some numbers, you will increase the likelihood of getting that one desired outcome.

But, lets face it, you have to weigh in the finance issue, and the specific requirements for the programs.

Therefore, what do you think is the bare minimum number that at least guarantees you will have 10-15 interviews. I am referring to IM specifically.

I would apply to 30 at a minimum. Given you are an FMG, I think maybe 50 might be a reasonable minimum for you, especially if you target the right places.

 

[jakeislove]

It may also depend on how strong one's application is.

 

[webgenius]

I know the answer is the more you apply, the better your chances. I am well aware that you increase your chances. Its simple maths - probability, plug in some numbers, you will increase the likelihood of getting that one desired outcome.

But, lets face it, you have to weigh in the finance issue, and the specific requirements for the programs.

Therefore, what do you think is the bare minimum number that at least guarantees you will have 10-15 interviews. I am referring to IM specifically.

I'm applying to 30-40 programs only. and only to southern states.
There are lots of programs there.
You don't have to pay 5000 for 150 applications to get interviews.
Just hand pick 30 programs that you honestly think they can take you (ie don't apply to Hopkins) and you can easily get 15 interviews.
Good luck to you 🙂

 

[Smashingdude]

I'm applying to 30-40 programs only. and only to southern states.
There are lots of programs there.
You don't have to pay 5000 for 150 applications to get interviews.
Just hand pick 30 programs that you honestly think they can take you (ie don't apply to Hopkins) and you can easily get 15 interviews.
Good luck to you 🙂

That might be true if you are an american graduate with no visa problems. I am an IMG, and can only get H1b visa. So, I have to hit high! Only question is, how low should it go to secure at least a decent number of interviews.

And 'Jakeislove', my stats are quite aright I guess: 250/250/241/CS, all first attempt, YOG 2012, 9 month USCE private clinics, plenty of research stuff but without any major publications, and volunteer as well.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

That might be true if you are an american graduate with no visa problems. I am an IMG, and can only get H1b visa. So, I have to hit high! Only question is, how low should it go to secure at least a decent number of interviews.

And 'Jakeislove', my stats are quite aright I guess: 250/250/241/CS, all first attempt, YOG 2012, 9 month USCE private clinics, plenty of research stuff but without any major publications, and volunteer as well.

If you want your best shot this time to be able to match, apply to every program that offers the H1b visa sponsorship.

 

[rokshana]

That might be true if you are an american graduate with no visa problems. I am an IMG, and can only get H1b visa. So, I have to hit high! Only question is, how low should it go to secure at least a decent number of interviews.

And 'Jakeislove', my stats are quite aright I guess: 250/250/241/CS, all first attempt, YOG 2012, 9 month USCE private clinics, plenty of research stuff but without any major publications, and volunteer as well.

you're 3 years out….that will eliminate some places…and if you are only looking for H1b, that limits you as well… + your USCE is only in private clinics and the research didn't pan out to any publications (could you not have gotten at least a poster out of something?) they don't really help all that much...agree with TG…apply to every place offering the H1b and then pare down if you get too many interviews…though if you are finished with school, you really should go to every interview you get.

 

[Smashingdude]

you're 3 years out….that will eliminate some places…and if you are only looking for H1b, that limits you as well… + your USCE is only in private clinics and the research didn't pan out to any publications (could you not have gotten at least a poster out of something?) they don't really help all that much...agree with TG…apply to every place offering the H1b and then pare down if you get too many interviews…though if you are finished with school, you really should go to every interview you get.

How am I three years out? As far as I read on the forums, the year of graduation is calculated from September of the year of application(i.e for 2015 IM match, its September 2014) to your graduation year. I graduated in September 2012, so that should be 2 years since graduating, right?

Also, I do have 4 oral presentation resulting from some research work. My USCE is in private clinics, but my other home country letters are waived as well, and one is from a PD in a good hospital, and the other from chairperson of medicine(a subspeciality actually) of my med-school. I am relying on my scores, and clearance of all the steps, and I thought that this is more important than getting an observership in a hospital (and that too by paying agencies like Americlerkships or so)

 

[gutonc]

Stop getting hung up on YOG, 2 years, 3 years, whatever, it's a problem but not your biggest one. Your home country LORs will essentially be ignored. Real USCE is important. Observerships are a waste of time anywhere other than that particular institution. Agree with the others that you need to be applying everywhere that will sponsor an H1b and cross your fingers.

 

[rokshana]

How am I three years out? As far as I read on the forums, the year of graduation is calculated from September of the year of application(i.e for 2015 IM match, its September 2014) to your graduation year. I graduated in September 2012, so that should be 2 years since graduating, right?

you gradated in 2012 which means you would have been eligible for the 2013 and 2014 matches…you are applying to the 2015 match…3rd year out...

Also, I do have 4 oral presentation resulting from some research work. My USCE is in private clinics, but my other home country letters are waived as well, and one is from a PD in a good hospital, and the other from chairperson of medicine(a subspeciality actually) of my med-school. I am relying on my scores, and clearance of all the steps, and I thought that this is more important than getting an observership in a hospital (and that too by paying agencies like Americlerkships or so)

oral presentations where? regional chapter meetings? national meeting? or research day at your school? great that you have research experience per se, but its like a hospital event that occurs or a PE that you did but didn't document, it didn't happen…research that results in publications or presentations at national meetings are going to be held to a higher level than research that does not. And CLERKships are valued more than OBSERVERships…and clerkships done in a hospital with residents and fellows holds more weight than one done in some community clinician's office.

and the letters from non US, even the PD or Chair are not going to get you far...and many programs will want a Chair letter from the DOM, not a subspecialty letter.

yes, your scores are good….but they are not unique…there will be applicants that DON't need a visa, have USCE in academic residency programs, who have publications AND your scores…that are graduating in 2015…maximize your chances by applying to a LOT of places…and then hope you have the luxury of being selective with the invites.

 

[Smashingdude]

Thank you everyone for the input and the insight. I really appreciate it. Its truly informative and has better oriented me.

I'll apply to all H1b programs that are available. Unfortunately, there arent more than 121-130 programs that sponsor H1B. My only dilemma is; Should I apply to more programs that sponsor J1, apart from these H1b prgorams, just to increase my chances of getting more interviews and subsequently matched?

I mean, 130 programs are H1b confirmed, should I apply to 50 -60 more programs that sponsor only J1, in the hope that they will somehow make exception and sponsor H1b if I got matched there? The downside is that if I got matched to a program that only sponsors J1 and are unwilling to sponsor H1b, I'll be stuck and the program may find a replacement.

Thanks once again. You all rock!

 

[IMPD]

Thank you everyone for the input and the insight. I really appreciate it. Its truly informative and has better oriented me.

I'll apply to all H1b programs that are available. Unfortunately, there arent more than 121-130 programs that sponsor H1B. My only dilemma is; Should I apply to more programs that sponsor J1, apart from these H1b prgorams, just to increase my chances of getting more interviews and subsequently matched?

I mean, 130 programs are H1b confirmed, should I apply to 50 -60 more programs that sponsor only J1, in the hope that they will somehow make exception and sponsor H1b if I got matched there? The downside is that if I got matched to a program that only sponsors J1 and are unwilling to sponsor H1b, I'll be stuck and the program may find a replacement.

Thanks once again. You all rock!

Please do not apply to J1 programs and hope that they will make an exception. I understand the confusion that arises when a program sponsors H1bs for Fellowship but not residency, or certain parts of the University sponsor H1bs, but the residency website says "J1 ONLY". However, despite that understandable confusion, there is a significant difference in these visas and when a program makes a decision to stop the H1bs, you are NOT likely to make an exception.

We had two great candidates match elsewhere last year because they were able to get H1bs from another program. Good for them. I am not going to start the nightmare of petitions that would be required to get my Univeristy and hospitals to go back to H1bs for residency. Just not going to happen.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I completely agree with IMPD. If a program doesn't sponsor H1b's, then they will not do it for you. We make our visa policy very clear on our website. I have had several interviewee's come to me (during their interview day) and say they wanted a visa we don't offer, and I asked them to leave and stop wasting our (and their) time. This is not something I can compromise on.

In addition, if you match with me and then try to tell me you need a visa I don't sponsor, that makes me very angry. When you match, you are committing to that program, including the visa type that should have been discussed at your interview.

Last, I'm not sure the NRMP would be happy with the situation. You might be labeled as violating the match, and that would be the end of trying to get a spot.

Bottom line: don't do this.

 

[Smashingdude]

Thank you IMPD and aProgDirector for your wonderful insights and advice. Surely, I was mistaken in the visa policy, thinking it more to be a matter dealt by the HR dept of the hospital/university; I didn't know that the PD's have a significant say in the matter.

I wasn't going to lie on my application/interview anyway. Of course now, I'll only apply to programs that sponsor H1B and try my luck.

Thank you all for your support and clearing some of these issues. I am sure this will help other IMG's in similar situation.

 

[thehundredthone]

I completely agree with IMPD. If a program doesn't sponsor H1b's, then they will not do it for you. We make our visa policy very clear on our website. I have had several interviewee's come to me (during their interview day) and say they wanted a visa we don't offer, and I asked them to leave and stop wasting our (and their) time. This is not something I can compromise on.

I assume though, that it's okay to ask a program that does not specify what visa they sponsor (there are some) or one that states states "case by case basis"/"rare instances"/something similar as to what those cases/instances might be, or whether one fits that description? (on interview day)

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I assume though, that it's okay to ask a program that does not specify what visa they sponsor (there are some) or one that states states "case by case basis"/"rare instances"/something similar as to what those cases/instances might be, or whether one fits that description? (on interview day)

Yes, although I'd recommend discussing it after you're invited but before you interview, if the answer will change your decision. So, if you only will accept an H, you might as well be certain that the program will be able to offer you one before you go.

 

[thehundredthone]

Yes, although I'd recommend discussing it after you're invited but before you interview, if the answer will change your decision. So, if you only will accept an H, you might as well be certain that the program will be able to offer you one before you go.

Small probability it might change my ranking based on the strength of the program, nothing else. I won't have trouble with getting the J1 like the OP so only quality of training will really matter, although an H1 will be a plus.