What's Going on in Elk County, PA? Crazy High Locum Rates

[Zekchar]

Got this email froma recruiter. New high for a shift as far as i've seen, though the coverage looks odd
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An excellent client of ours is in need of a locum tenens Anesthesiologist for an assignment in Elk County, PA. Below are the details of the opening. If available and interested, please reply back with an updated copy of your CV to ************* at **************, and feel free to call *******************

Pay: $5k+ per shift (negotiable)

Specialty: General Anesthesia - Will also be covering OB/GYN

Requirements: Board Certified or Board Eligible within 5 years. Pennsylvania License a must.

Location: Smaller rural hospital with great staff to work alongside in Elk County, PA

Start Date: August 7, 2022 for 3 months with the option to extend should both parties agree

Schedule: First 3 weeks will be 24/7 Coverage (can stay at a local hotel or on-site). After that, the assignment will be 2 weeks on, and 2 weeks off (24/7 coverage) for 3 months with the option to extend should both parties agree.

Case Type: General, Ortho, Cataracts, and OB/GYN. The first Call is MD with CRNA backup. Epidurals, spinals, and blocks are performed by MD

Case Load: 12-15 cases per day

Computer System: Cerner

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Members don't see this ad.

 

[PainDrain]

How much?

 

[sevoflurane]

Got this email froma recruiter. New high for a shift as far as i've seen, though the coverage looks odd
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

An excellent client of ours is in need of a locum tenens Anesthesiologist for an assignment in Elk County, PA. Below are the details of the opening. If available and interested, please reply back with an updated copy of your CV to ************* at **************, and feel free to call *******************

Pay: $5k+ per shift (negotiable)

Specialty: General Anesthesia - Will also be covering OB/GYN

Requirements: Board Certified or Board Eligible within 5 years. Pennsylvania License a must.

Location: Smaller rural hospital with great staff to work alongside in Elk County, PA

Start Date: August 7, 2022 for 3 months with the option to extend should both parties agree

Schedule: First 3 weeks will be 24/7 Coverage (can stay at a local hotel or on-site). After that, the assignment will be 2 weeks on, and 2 weeks off (24/7 coverage) for 3 months with the option to extend should both parties agree.

Case Type: General, Ortho, Cataracts, and OB/GYN. The first Call is MD with CRNA backup. Epidurals, spinals, and blocks are performed by MD

Case Load: 12-15 cases per day

Computer System: Cerner

5k for 24 hr coverage is good?

 

[coffeebythelake]

5k for 24 hr coverage is good?

not really, for a short term gig.
and what do they mean by "first 3 weeks will be 24/7 coverage"? you are on-call for 3 weeks straight? ridiculousness??

 

[Guillemot]

5k for 24 hr coverage is good?

Really depends on how busy it is. The job pays 35k/week. That is a lot. But maybe its not worth it? All depends on how bad the actual hours are.

 

[IMGASMD]

Sounds like 24/7*3 weeks.

At 300/hr in house it’s 7200 per day.

I am sure it’ll be sold as, “beeper call”. You “rarely” get call-backs.

So the math I would imaging be something like this.
$300*8hrs + 1000 (to hold beeper) = 3400 per day. So if we pay you $5000/day, you’ll be ahead.

This is for 504 hours STRAIGHT. With no reprieve. You’d have to stay at Elk County, by the hospital for 3 fuking weeks.

Nah.

 

[anbuitachi]

this sounds terrible. unless you know the system and is willing to take a chance, who will sign a contract like that. they could be totally lying to you about how busy it is.

 

[sevoflurane]

not really, for a short term gig.
and what do they mean by "first 3 weeks will be 24/7 coverage"? you are on-call for 3 weeks straight? ridiculousness??

ya that’s what i was saying. I mean if you are done by 1-3pm every day w occasional call back it could be ok, but as a whole that is not a good rate. That’s 208/hr.

 

[sevo00]

5k per shift when a shift is 24 hrs is not something I’d call a crazy high rate

 

[Twiggidy]

I mean, it’s 5k/day for 7 days which is 35k as said about with a 3 month commitment.

That’s 420k if you’re willing to not have a life for 3 months

 

[OptionOffense]

I mean, it’s 5k/day for 7 days which is 35k as said about with a 3 month commitment.

That’s 420k if you’re willing to not have a life for 3 months

Give 1/2 of that to demented Joe and the Swamp infestation called US govt. No thanks.

 

[PainDrain]

Would this be a 1099 or W2? How much malpractice? Any other benefits?

 

[sevoflurane]

Guys, it says "negotiable."

Only a fool would settle on the first quoted rate. This hospital sounds like they won't even be able to function without an MD working there. If you have a clean record, they'll pay you whatever you want/ask for.

This is the problem w/ locums. How much do you make per week/month at a stable practice with stable workloads and benefits and sleeping in your own bed?

 

[sevoflurane]

I guarantee you the above locums job falls short of what most anesthesiologists have in many other practices. There is a price to pay for living out of a hotel plus days traveling to and from a locums city. Biggest attraction to locums is the ability to choose your own schedule… but anesthesia practices are wising up and giving anesthesiologists flexible schedules in order to bring them on board in the current market. We just hired one straight out of residency at 60% fte. We’re glad to have them and they're glad to be here.

 

[sevoflurane]

more like 50-100k in a good practice.

 

[sevoflurane]

also many practices pay u as 1099

I’ve owned my own llc as 1099/def benefit plans/tax deductions/etc
I’ve worked as a locums

I am currently VERY happy w/ my current setup.

 

[sevoflurane]

That being said, one of our ex-partners is on track to clean 7 digits this year, but he works for it and spends a lot of nights in a hotel. Just not for me at nearly 50 y/o.

 

[sevoflurane]

Don’t want to derail this thread, but 5k/24 hr shift doesn’t sound amazing to me. Our practice pays more than that here with bennies on top and your own home to sleep in with no traveling.

 

[Status Sciaticus]

Definitely in agreement there. I think 7-8k is more reasonable if there's OB to cover overnight. If not, then 5-6k is more reasonable if you're not at a trauma center of any designation.

You can use a standard locums rate of 400/hr x however many hours you are working, and maybe cut it to half for the hours you are available. Taking an average of 300/hr x 24 hours = 8000 plus lodging/malpractice/rental car/etc. Obviously add in a BFE multiplier. I would say 10K plus the usual locums accoutrements would be appropriate.

 

[GravelRider]

I guarantee you the above locums job falls short of what most anesthesiologists have in many other practices. There is a price to pay for living out of a hotel plus days traveling to and from a locums city. Biggest attraction to locums is the ability to choose your own schedule… but anesthesia practices are wising up and giving anesthesiologists flexible schedules in order to bring them on board in the current market. We just hired one straight out of residency at 60% fte. We’re glad to have them and they're glad to be here.

This is a good point. The reason the locums market is so attractive to people is the lure of flexibility. As seen in the “what did the old timers make?” thread, the earning potential is just not what it used to be and the carrot of a potential million dollar buyout is not there. The practices that are able to entice people with flexibility are going to be the ones to have an easy time recruiting. If I’m not making a million bucks a year, I don’t want to work 65 hours a week and get crushed on call. I’d rather make less and work less (but still work hard the hours I do work).

 

[Mman]

You can use a standard locums rate of 400/hr

$10K for 24 hours is "standard"????

 

[Status Sciaticus]

$10K for 24 hours is "standard"????

Whatever they can afford to bear is the new standard.

 

[OptionOffense]

also many practices pay u as 1099

I’ve owned my own llc as 1099/def benefit plans/tax deductions/etc
I’ve worked as a locums

I am currently VERY happy w/ my current setup.

Can you be at one location for an extended period of time as a 1099 contractor? My understanding is the govt wants you classified as an employee if that is what you are indeed. A traveling Resp Therapist told me she had to leave for 3o days because she works as a contractor and you cant do that for longer than a year o/w the govt will ding her employer (thehospital)

 

[chocomorsel]

$10K for 24 hours is "standard"????

No way. He just finished residency and is seeing stars in his dreams.
I highly doubt anyone has even come close to offering him that.
I am a veteran locums and this even sounds crazy to me.
You gonna be busting your ass for that 10k. Ain’t gonna be had in a little sleepy town. Maybe at a busy level one with OB. Not worth it to me. I like sleeping.

 

[chocomorsel]

Can you be at one location for an extended period of time as a 1099 contractor? My understanding is the govt wants you classified as an employee if that is what you are indeed. A traveling Resp Therapist told me she had to leave for 3o days because she works as a contractor and you cant do that for longer than a year o/w the govt will ding her employer (thehospital)

Not true at all. Lots of practices pay their partners 1099. Talk to an accountant and not a therapist.

 

[Guillemot]

Can you be at one location for an extended period of time as a 1099 contractor? My understanding is the govt wants you classified as an employee if that is what you are indeed. A traveling Resp Therapist told me she had to leave for 3o days because she works as a contractor and you cant do that for longer than a year o/w the govt will ding her employer (thehospital)

This is not r/t 1099, but to tax deductions for travel expenses AFAIK.

 

[Status Sciaticus]

No way. He just finished residency and is seeing stars in his dreams.
I highly doubt anyone has even come close to offering him that.
I am a veteran locums and this even sounds crazy to me.
You gonna be busting your ass for that 10k. Ain’t gonna be had in a little sleepy town. Maybe at a busy level one with OB. Not worth it to me. I like sleeping.

It was a cynical remark, obviously lost due to the nature of typing on a forum without tone.
You can doubt all you'd like, but I've gotten in house locums offers for a 24 that comes pretty close to 8k. But since you're a 'veteran locums', I'm sure you're getting those offers too, right?

 

[Mman]

Agreed. Posted in the private forum regarding real rates that are out there and easily findable.

The Texarkana job exists. If they can afford it, every hospital can. It's supply and demand after that.

hospital finances are a mysterious thing and what works at one does not necessarily work at another.

 

[DoctwoB]

Sounds like a decent gig for the right person. Suck it up in middle of nowhere PA for 3 months. Make money for the year. Take 9 months off and travel Europe.

Married with kids? Probably not a good option. Single and work to live? Why not?

 

[sevoflurane]

p

Can you be at one location for an extended period of time as a 1099 contractor? My understanding is the govt wants you classified as an employee if that is what you are indeed. A traveling Resp Therapist told me she had to leave for 3o days because she works as a contractor and you cant do that for longer than a year o/w the govt will ding her employer (thehospital)

Had my own LLC/1099 job for 7 years.
Def great and significant perks.

 

[chocomorsel]

It was a cynical remark, obviously lost due to the nature of typing on a forum without tone.
You can doubt all you'd like, but I've gotten in house locums offers for a 24 that comes pretty close to 8k. But since you're a 'veteran locums', I'm sure you're getting those offers too, right?

Close to 8k, sure. For 24 hour call. 10k a day as a locums? Hmmm….

 

[chocomorsel]

Sounds like a decent gig for the right person. Suck it up in middle of nowhere PA for 3 months. Make money for the year. Take 9 months off and travel Europe.

Married with kids? Probably not a good option. Single and work to live? Why not?

Right up my alley actually.

 

[Zekchar]

Close to 8k, sure. For 24 hour call. 10k a day as a locums? Hmmm….

Something doesn't add up. I posted thinking $5K is a high number for a 24hr call. I haven't heard of anything above that. Where are you all getting 6K, 7K, 8K ... 10K wtf? Either it's all bull**** or I'm missing something. If this was a reddit thread I would say screenshot or ban since I think a lot of you are full of shat and are simply getting youngster hopes up.

 

[Status Sciaticus]

Close to 8k, sure. For 24 hour call. 10k a day as a locums? Hmmm….

Right. My original comment for the 10k was for 24 hours of work. (12 hour shift and 12 hour in house availability), not a regular 7-5 workday.

 

[chocomorsel]

Right. My original comment for the 10k was for 24 hours of work. (12 hour shift and 12 hour in house availability), not a regular 7-5 workday.

Again, still rare even if on for 24 hours straight. Almost 8K is not the same thing as 10k.
We are doctors so maybe 2K is not a lot of money, but in reality it is.

 

[residency2010]

Something doesn't add up. I posted thinking $5K is a high number for a 24hr call. I haven't heard of anything above that. Where are you all getting 6K, 7K, 8K ... 10K wtf? Either it's all bull**** or I'm missing something. If this was a reddit thread I would say screenshot or ban since I think a lot of you are full of shat and are simply getting youngster hopes up.

I was offered 7.2k for a straight 24 hr weekend shift. But it’s in house and u cover 2 CRNA’s. I would take 5k if it’s home call with minimal call back. Money is out there for locums and it’s real. Do not underestimate yourself.

 

[gcc322]

I would do home call gig that has a relatively low call back rate for 5k over a busy in house for 8k. You could do the home call position for 17 weeks as 1 week on 2 weeks off and still pull down close to 600k.

 

[GravelRider]

Something doesn't add up. I posted thinking $5K is a high number for a 24hr call. I haven't heard of anything above that. Where are you all getting 6K, 7K, 8K ... 10K wtf? Either it's all bull**** or I'm missing something. If this was a reddit thread I would say screenshot or ban since I think a lot of you are full of shat and are simply getting youngster hopes up.

$7k for 24hr call is $250/hr. I assume if the hospital is paying $7k or more for 24hr call, you are getting beat up pretty bad for 24hrs.

Remember, jobs are evaluated by pay AND workload. The $5k per call might be better than the $8k if you don’t want to be delirious from 24 hours of torture.

 

[GassYous]

Something doesn't add up. I posted thinking $5K is a high number for a 24hr call. I haven't heard of anything above that. Where are you all getting 6K, 7K, 8K ... 10K wtf? Either it's all bull**** or I'm missing something. If this was a reddit thread I would say screenshot or ban since I think a lot of you are full of shat and are simply getting youngster hopes up.

If you're in-house the whole time doing cases that's a low estimate. Depends on how busy it is but the numbers are legit.

 

[undalay]

In house night call is very expensive. Why are people surprised at the sticker shock? CPI is at 40 yr highs and you want anesthesiologist to be paid at 1990s recession prices? 24 hr beeper call is expensive, but negotiate. Hospitals and casinos make the most money in this economy and if you are not demanding, someone is making money off your work. night call without much fuss, few epidurals and few csections routinely brinks 6–7 k per night in small towns.

 

[Mman]

In house night call is very expensive. Why are people surprised at the sticker shock?

The surprise you see is people that don't believe that is the prevalent rate for such work. In my neck of the woods, shifts are filled for a lot cheaper than that. If anybody offered $8-10K for a 24 hour in house shift, they would have to beat applicants away there would be so many people trying to fill it.

 

[vector2]

In house night call is very expensive. Why are people surprised at the sticker shock? CPI is at 40 yr highs and you want anesthesiologist to be paid at 1990s recession prices? 24 hr beeper call is expensive, but negotiate. Hospitals and casinos make the most money in this economy and if you are not demanding, someone is making money off your work. night call without much fuss, few epidurals and few csections routinely brinks 6–7 k per night in small towns.

Depends on the market. There is a prn job in town that only pays like 1500 for 8 hrs of 4:1 supervision. But they don't have any problem filling it because anesthesiologists want to live in the city and not in BFE. Same goes for calls... I've seen plenty get filled for 2-3k for a workload that would easily pay 5-6k elsewhere.

 

[Zekchar]

The surprise you see is people that don't believe that is the prevalent rate for such work. In my neck of the woods, shifts are filled for a lot cheaper than that. If anybody offered $8-10K for a 24 hour in house shift, they would have to beat applicants away there would be so many people trying to fill it.

I agree. I still do not believe that those 6-10K for 24hr calls exist. I maintain that people are making stuff up. For 6-10K 24hr in-house calls, I would get a license in a new state and be Q2 with post call off for a week straight every month, no questions asked.

Realistically, I think people are inflation the numbers for internet points and/or there are other financial considerations in play that get them to the claimed numbers.

 

[Twiggidy]

Whatever they can afford to bear is the new standard.

No lies detect......

 

[GassYous]

I agree. I still do not believe that those 6-10K for 24hr calls exist. I maintain that people are making stuff up. For 6-10K 24hr in-house calls, I would get a license in a new state and be Q2 with post call off for a week straight every month, no questions asked.

Realistically, I think people are inflation the numbers for internet points and/or there are other financial considerations in play that get them to the claimed numbers.

No you wouldn't because I know people who have done that and it isn't sustainable. Why would we care about internet points?

Let's say you have 35/unit. That's 200 units to get to 7k. You do 12 gi cases going from 7-4. 3 choles and 3 appys for 80 units and now it's 3 am. Then you do a lap salpingectomy and because the patient is obese theyre done at 530 am. That's almost 200 units for a reasonable schedule. Doesn't include blocks, lines or stipends. How is it hard to believe?

 

[Twiggidy]

I agree. I still do not believe that those 6-10K for 24hr calls exist. I maintain that people are making stuff up. For 6-10K 24hr in-house calls, I would get a license in a new state and be Q2 with post call off for a week straight every month, no questions asked.

Realistically, I think people are inflation the numbers for internet points and/or there are other financial considerations in play that get them to the claimed numbers.

I think they exist but they aren't made public because 1) why would I advertise my awesome locums gig so others can snatch it my potential income 2) the people offering it would get flooded with people kicking the tires on their gig or get a handful of poor anesthesiologist trying to cash in.

A lucrative locums position doesn't need to advertise to the world and if they do need to advertise to the world, it's because it's located somewhere even despite the money it's difficult to recruit. Elk County is 2.5hrs from Pittsburg....and I'm not even getting super excited about Pittsburgh

 

[Mman]

No you wouldn't because I know people who have done that and it isn't sustainable. Why would we care about internet points?

Let's say you have 35/unit. That's 200 units to get to 7k. You do 12 gi cases going from 7-4. 3 choles and 3 appys for 80 units and now it's 3 am. Then you do a lap salpingectomy and because the patient is obese theyre done at 530 am. That's almost 200 units for a reasonable schedule. Doesn't include blocks, lines or stipends. How is it hard to believe?

pointing out what could be collected for a busy day work with a decent payor mix does not change what a hospital can offer per hour to get someone to do the work. Someone will work for less than what could potentially be collected.

 

[GassYous]

pointing out what could be collected for a busy day work with a decent payor mix does not change what a hospital can offer per hour to get someone to do the work. Someone will work for less than what could potentially be collected.

The OP's assertion is that it's impossible to get that amount of pay. That 5k is absurd. I'm showing that it's not. If you're desperate enough to require locums, you can afford to pay more than what is being billed for anesthesia charges.

 

[nimbus]

pointing out what could be collected for a busy day work with a decent payor mix does not change what a hospital can offer per hour to get someone to do the work. Someone will work for less than what could potentially be collected.

There is a hospital currently recruiting locums, $450/hr for generalists and $500/hr for cardiac. The unit value there is in the mid 30s. The anesthesia collections from that practice doesn’t even come close to covering those locums rates. The hospital is paying almost twice what that practice actually generates.

 

[Mman]

There is a hospital currently recruiting locums, $450/hr for generalists and $500/hr for cardiac. The unit value there is in the mid 30s. The anesthesia collections in that practice doesn’t even come close to covering those locums rates.

locums pays the lowest possible cost required to find coverage whether or not the collections cover it.