What's harder to achieve?

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Judging from table 19, 16% more white applicants apply with a 31 than do with a 3.8.

Completely depends on where you went to school and what you studied.
 
Thanks a bunch guys. Do you think there's a pretty solid correlation between how well you do in pre reqs and your MCAT score?
 
werunthis said:
Thanks a bunch guys. Do you think there's a pretty solid correlation between how well you do in pre reqs and your MCAT score?
Click to expand...

I knew a 4.0 student who scored a 22 and 23 on their MCAT. N=1 but I think a strong GPA is easier to obtain.
 
werunthis said:
Thanks a bunch guys. Do you think there's a pretty solid correlation between how well you do in pre reqs and your MCAT score?
Click to expand...

I imagine there's a correlation there. I think a 3.8+ GPA is less common than a 31 MCAT, and I imagine on average it is easier to do the latter among serious applicants (i.e. people who realize what it takes to get into medical school). Many people take the MCAT with absolutely no idea of how to prepare, that they even should prepare, etc, making the percentiles amongst test-takers useless because they are so drastically different from percentiles among applicants.

Look at this great thread put together by @sector9 to get a better idea of the sorts of stats that applicants have and their success with those stats. Example figure is below.


Figure 1 (click on graph for higher resolution)

Another useful section:
sector9 said:
The data in this post is from last year. I'll update it as soon as I can with a current graph.

Which is better: a LizzyM score composed of a high GPA/low MCAT or the same LizzyM score created from a low GPA/high MCAT?


The available data suggests that your chances are slightly higher if your GPA contributes more to your LizzyM score.


Figure 12 (click on graph for higher resolution)

Blue dots: MCAT contributes more to your LizzyM score than the average matriculant (more than 46.6%)
Red dots: GPA contributes more to your LizzyM score than the average matriculant (more than 53.4%)
Click to expand...
 
Time-wise a good GPA takes longer to obtain and maintain. You can also retake MCAT, but with GPA your options are limited. I haven't taken MCAT but it seems that many people run into a ceiling where they just can't improve their score significantly so I am personally more concerned with getting a good MCAT score than maintaining a 3.8 as I know for sure I can do the later but have no idea how I'll do on MCAT. It doesn't help seeing 4.0 students scoring in high twenties. I also prefer tests that are not cumulative and MCAT is only gonna get more content heavy.
 
Depends on your university and your major. I think 31 MCAT is easier.
 
A lot of private schools inflate GPAs, so it depends.
 
A large proportion of the MCAT relies on the test-takers natural intellect. Some people sit down and take their first practice test and score a 36 on it, others sit down and score a 20, while both might have done similarly in school. That being said, maintaining a 3.8 takes a lot more effort than preparing for one exam.
 
At my school, only like ~ 2% of people got over a 3.8 I think. Frankly, I have no idea which is harder, but to get both is awesome.
 
I appreciate all the advise and opinions offered, guys. I'm not sure how to tag others yet, as I just made this account today.
 
3.8 requires a consistent effort for an extended period of time, 31+ MCAT requires concentrated effort in 3-4 months prior to the exam. Also, 3.8 may be damn near impossible depending on the major (i.e. 3.8 in ECE is baller AF, and 3.8 in Comm is definitely respectable, but not comparable by any means). Overall, 3.8 is more difficult unless you're in a chill major.
 
3.8 MCAT znd 31 GPA here.




Edit: oops. I guess someone made a similar joke above. ♥
 
At my school, there were some majors where you could get a 4.0 with very minimal effort. At my brother's school, they had lots of very similar majors of differential difficulty. If you blew it at the main type of such a major, they would switch you to an easier version, and if you blew it there, they switched you to an even easier version. I think he said that people who couldn't cut it in a hard science major would get switched to exercise science, and if they couldn't hack it there, they got switched to physical education. If you just pick the easiest major from the start and use "rate my professor" to make sure you avoid the "tough" instructors in your major and gen-eds, you can get a 4.0 with very little effort.

You can't pull such shenanigans with the MCAT, you actually need to know a lot of things and be able to apply them. I would say that a 4.0 is easier to achieve than even a 28 on the MCAT, you just have to find a nice, grade inflating, school to go to, and then you are made in the shade if your goal is to get a 4.0 and you don't care whether you actually learned anything.

edit: FWIW, I earned a 3.995(not including 5 F's I earned in my first semester of college after which I dropped out and didn't return for 5 years) and a 35. The 3.995 was hard effort over a long time; the 35 was insane effort in a short time. I would liken it to being hit in the nuts with a wiffle bat 20 times versus being hit in the nuts with a sledgehammer once.
 
Last edited:
[QUOTE="V5RED, post: 15416800, member: 370870"I would liken it to being hit in the nuts with a wiffle bat 20 times versus being hit in the nuts with a sledgehammer once.[/QUOTE]
Hahaha
 
Depends on your undergrad difficulty. At my school, premeds/science majors with a 3.8+ are a complete rarity, but almost everyone I knew managed a 30+ on the MCAT.
 
V5RED said:
At my school, there were some majors where you could get a 4.0 with very minimal effort. At my brother's school, they had lots of very similar majors of differential difficulty. If you blew it at the main type of such a major, they would switch you to an easier version, and if you blew it there, they switched you to an even easier version. I think he said that people who couldn't cut it in a hard science major would get switched to exercise science, and if they couldn't hack it there, they got switched to physical education. If you just pick the easiest major from the start and use "rate my professor" to make sure you avoid the "tough" instructors in your major and gen-eds, you can get a 4.0 with very little effort.

You can't pull such shenanigans with the MCAT, you actually need to know a lot of things and be able to apply them. I would say that a 4.0 is easier to achieve than even a 28 on the MCAT, you just have to find a nice, grade inflating, school to go to, and then you are made in the shade if your goal is to get a 4.0 and you don't care whether you actually learned anything.

edit: FWIW, I earned a 3.995(not including 5 F's I earned in my first semester of college after which I dropped out and didn't return for 5 years) and a 35. The 3.995 was hard effort over a long time; the 35 was insane effort in a short time. I would liken it to being hit in the nuts with a wiffle bat 20 times versus being hit in the nuts with a sledgehammer once.
Click to expand...

👍

Your observations and analogies are spot-on.
 
The 3.8+ is harder. You have to be really good in school from the start. A 3.6-3.7 gives you some room for a mediocre freshman year but a 3.8+ requires academic excellence every semester.

Many people that get 31+ on the MCAT were not "31+ students" freshman year. They came into undergrad first semester bumped their head and got it in gear afterwards.
 
The 3.8 gpa at my school is a gunner (the type who argues with professors/TAs about every grade less than A), but many have gotten a 37+ MCAT.
 
It is definitely school dependent. At my school, a 3.8 would put you at the top 5%. However, a 31 is the top 17% of all test takers.
 
Gunna go ahead and go against the grain and say 31+ MCAT
 
Although I didn't have a 3.8, it would have been much easier for me to put in the extra effort to get that GPA than put up with the amount frustration it took me to get a 31 (my score exactly). My science courses were generally curved for about 10-15% A's. I realized quickly after I started studying for the mcat that it just wasn't my thing and I was super jealous of the people who could hit that score with minimal effort. Each achievement takes very different aptitudes and only you can know if the MCAT is your thing.
 
I also want to add that no one yet knows what sort of aptitudes will guarantee someone a great score on the MCAT 2015, as it will require a greater range of skills from test takers.
 
allenlchs said:
I also want to add that no one yet knows what sort of aptitudes will guarantee someone a great score on the MCAT 2015, as it will require a greater range of skills from test takers.
Click to expand...

True. If you are taking 2015 then take everything with a grain of salt.
 
GPA is harder regardless of school, atleast for me. I always forget to do little homework assignments and stuff, or lose pointts on attendance, that lowers my grades :/

GPA tests your motivation, organization, and long term effort, with some intelligence depending on school and major

MCAT tests your intelligence and short term highly concentrated effort
 
darkjedi said:
A meaningless comparison considering how much variance there is in grading between different schools.

95% of the students in my undergrad had below a 3.6 GPA. A 95th percentile on the MCAT is like a 35 or something.
Click to expand...

But a 35 on the MCAT is generally the 95% out of people who did Fairly well in college and prereqs (those not weeded out ). I think the McAT student population would be stronger than your college student population no?
 
I am curious as to what colleges release such an all-inclusive statistics on their ugrad students' GPAs.
 
Definitely the MCAT in my opinion. I go to a grade deflating school (especially in engineering) and have a 3.8+ over 3 year, still couldn't get a 31 MCAT... or even close.
 
I'm frankensteining this thread.

I think it's easier to game your GPA than the MCAT.

I know some pre-meds who major in easy majors like psychology, took their pre-reqs over the summer with easy graders or at community colleges, or organize their schedule so that they always have easy classes to offset more difficult ones, so that they can still maintain a high GPA while taking what looks like a heavy course load. More so, cheating isn't rare among high achievers, at least at my school. I know people who always score well on difficult exams because their friends who took the class earlier gave them all the old exams that the teacher reused questions from and didn't make available to current students.

The MCAT, on the other hand, is standardized. It's meant to level the playing field and I think that it does a good job of it. My score speaks to my ability to understand the material that I was expected to learn compared to all other pre-meds, it doesn't penalize me for not knowing how to game my GPA.
 
allenlchs said:
Time-wise a good GPA takes longer to obtain and maintain. You can also retake MCAT, but with GPA your options are limited. I haven't taken MCAT but it seems that many people run into a ceiling where they just can't improve their score significantly so I am personally more concerned with getting a good MCAT score than maintaining a 3.8 as I know for sure I can do the later but have no idea how I'll do on MCAT. It doesn't help seeing 4.0 students scoring in high twenties. I also prefer tests that are not cumulative and MCAT is only gonna get more content heavy.
Click to expand...
Exactly.
 
khronos said:
I'm frankensteining this thread.

I think it's easier to game your GPA than the MCAT.

I know some pre-meds who major in easy majors like psychology, took their pre-reqs over the summer with easy graders or at community colleges, or organize their schedule so that they always have easy classes to offset more difficult ones, so that they can still maintain a high GPA while taking what looks like a heavy course load. More so, cheating isn't rare among high achievers, at least at my school. I know people who always score well on difficult exams because their friends who took the class earlier gave them all the old exams that the teacher reused questions from and didn't make available to current students.

The MCAT, on the other hand, is standardized. It's meant to level the playing field and I think that it does a good job of it. My score speaks to my ability to understand the material that I was expected to learn compared to all other pre-meds, it doesn't penalize me for not knowing how to game my GPA.
Click to expand...
That's me; I use Rate My Professor religiously, choose appropriate class loads to where I know I can excel, and take summer courses. I am cautious and realistic about how I choose classes. At the end of the day, who will look smarter? A student with a 3.9-4.0 with a strategic approach or the 3.5-3.6 who rushed through and sacrificed quality for quantity. Of course, GPA is only one factor in this equations, but I am not underestimating the MCAT, like many do.
 
Completely depends on the university the GPA is earned at, that's why the MCAT is the Great Equalizer.

According to the good old AAMC there were 35384 applicants in the 3.8-4.0 GPA range and 64818 applicants with 30+ MCAT.

So there you have it, the high GPA is less common.

What's really interesting is that over a third of people in the 3.8-4.0 range failed to break 30 on their MCAT. So there is a decent proportion of universities where the skills needed for a good MCAT are not needed for good grades. This seems odd to me, making A's in prereqs required a lot more reasoning ability and mastery of the material than the MCAT did
 
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