What's more important, passing boards on first time or high GPA?

[richhomiequanhere]

I'm currently a 2nd year student and I was wondering if anyone could give some advice. Currently, a classmate of mine is at a low 3.0 GPA but this person (trying to let this person be anonymous) is quite hardworking. Can't stop won't stop. This student puts in the work and gives it a 110%. I know passing boards shouldnt be a big issue but how does this student stack against someone that has a 3.8+, but fails boards, for residency?

The reason I'm asking is because I've noticed certain classmates that are cheating themselves of a podiatric school education (they have literally admitted cheating on exams, multiple times). I have some qualms of whether they will pass boards at their first try. So as far as residencies go, if there are any residency directors here, which candidate looks more appealing? Do grades trump passing boards on first try? If they dont pass on their first try, where does this 3.8+ stack vs other low 3.0 students that passed on their first try?

Student A: Low 3.0 GPA, 1st time Boards Step 1 Passed, great work ethic, more nice than Mr Rogers, great with dissections
Student B: Mid to High 3.0 GPA, 2nd time Boards Step 1 Passed, terrible work ethic, very laid back attitude (laissez faire), I have yet to see this student do any dissection on a cadaver (it's been more than a year)

I just want to know if there's some justice out there and if Student A will be able to get a great surgical residency over Student B.

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[Weirdy]

High stats and board pass will NEVER make up for a **** work ethic or toxic personality.

Programs don't even know whether you've passed boards or not the 1st time when you put your selections in and get them. So your colleague will probably get away with it and know how to play the game well enough to not get screened out with his/her work ethic when they pick clerks. They've also got a higher GPA so they will get more choices in terms of "better" clerkships when they pick compared to the hard working/nicer person.

All of this is flipped when you start your clerkship.
9 out of 10 times, attendings can sniff out a bullsh*tter when that person has been there for a month. You forget they see students day in day out every single year.

And if that program or those attendings are incapable of sniffing out individuals who kiss @ss, put off work, are lazy, constantly throw their co-externs under the bus to make themselves look better, try to impress residents in slimy, sleaze ball ways- if a program actually falls for those individuals- is that a place you want to go to?

If those programs end up liking people that are two faced, lazy, conniving, it just tells me to stay completely away from the programs, residents, and attendings associated with that individual.

Had the same concerns you did. Every single year. Felt like it was a losing battle to find kind, caring, capable people who weren't just in it for themselves. Then you look at your classmates who are @ssholes or those in high positions that abuse their power and you realize all of that extends to the national level when you become a resident and attending. Does it start to make sense now?

Clerkships are the equalizer. Choose wisely - some high powered programs have gpa/class rank cutoffs or hand pick high stats during clerkship picking. Students like to talk and impress each other about where they're going but they don't know **** until they've been there in person.

Apologies for the chip on my shoulder. It wears you out having to work with toxic, high stat students with no people or hand skills.

Worry about yourself and let them fall where they fall. It is not your job to look next to you and compare. You will only take away focus on how much harder and better you can work.

TL;DR- there is justice out there for people who work hard, stay humble, and want the best not only for themselves but those around them.

You just might not see justice until 4th year. Hang in there and keep working hard. Find every chance to be kind to those who deserve it around you. Pick programs not on name brand but on things you value.

 

[richhomiequanhere]

High stats and board pass will NEVER make up for a **** work ethic or toxic personality.

Programs don't even know whether you've passed boards or not the 1st time when you put your selections in and get them. So your colleague will probably get away with it and know how to play the game well enough to not get screened out with his/her work ethic when they pick clerks. They've also got a higher GPA so they will get more choices in terms of "better" clerkships when they pick compared to the hard working/nicer person.

All of this is flipped when you start your clerkship.
9 out of 10 times, attendings can sniff out a bullsh*tter when that person has been there for a month. You forget they see students day in day out every single year.

And if that program or those attendings are incapable of sniffing out individuals who kiss @ss, put off work, are lazy, constantly throw their co-externs under the bus to make themselves look better, try to impress residents in slimy, sleaze ball ways- if a program actually falls for those individuals- is that a place you want to go to?

If those programs end up liking people that are two faced, lazy, conniving, it just tells me to stay completely away from the programs, residents, and attendings associated with that individual.

Had the same concerns you did. Every single year. Felt like it was a losing battle to find kind, caring, capable people who weren't just in it for themselves. Then you look at your classmates who are @ssholes or those in high positions that abuse their power and you realize all of that extends to the national level when you become a resident and attending. Does it start to make sense now?

Clerkships are the equalizer. Choose wisely - some high powered programs have gpa/class rank cutoffs or hand pick high stats during clerkship picking. Students like to talk and impress each other about where they're going but they don't know **** until they've been there in person.

Apologies for the chip on my shoulder. It wears you out having to work with toxic, high stat students with no people or hand skills.

Worry about yourself and let them fall where they fall. It is not your job to look next to you and compare. You will only take away focus on how much harder and better you can work.

TL;DR- there is justice out there for people who work hard, stay humble, and want the best not only for themselves but those around them.

You just might not see justice until 4th year. Hang in there and keep working hard. Find every chance to be kind to those who deserve it around you. Pick programs not on name brand but on things you value.

Thank you for the reply! This helps immensely.

 

[DexterMorganSK]

Agreed with Weirdy. I know of ppl that didn't match because 1) didn't rank enough programs 2) were terrible with people, i.e., couldn't work collaboratively with another physician/provider/patients. The 1-month externships during 4th year determines if you will match or not, irrespective of your GPAs.

That said, even a mediocre student should pass part 1 on their first attempt if they put in the hours during dedicated.
A lot of board studying is self-learning, so it is possible.

 

[PTPuser]

High stats and board pass will NEVER make up for a **** work ethic or toxic personality.

Programs don't even know whether you've passed boards or not the 1st time when you put your selections in and get them. So your colleague will probably get away with it and know how to play the game well enough to not get screened out with his/her work ethic when they pick clerks. They've also got a higher GPA so they will get more choices in terms of "better" clerkships when they pick compared to the hard working/nicer person.

All of this is flipped when you start your clerkship.
9 out of 10 times, attendings can sniff out a bullsh*tter when that person has been there for a month. You forget they see students day in day out every single year.

And if that program or those attendings are incapable of sniffing out individuals who kiss @ss, put off work, are lazy, constantly throw their co-externs under the bus to make themselves look better, try to impress residents in slimy, sleaze ball ways- if a program actually falls for those individuals- is that a place you want to go to?

If those programs end up liking people that are two faced, lazy, conniving, it just tells me to stay completely away from the programs, residents, and attendings associated with that individual.

Had the same concerns you did. Every single year. Felt like it was a losing battle to find kind, caring, capable people who weren't just in it for themselves. Then you look at your classmates who are @ssholes or those in high positions that abuse their power and you realize all of that extends to the national level when you become a resident and attending. Does it start to make sense now?

Clerkships are the equalizer. Choose wisely - some high powered programs have gpa/class rank cutoffs or hand pick high stats during clerkship picking. Students like to talk and impress each other about where they're going but they don't know **** until they've been there in person.

Apologies for the chip on my shoulder. It wears you out having to work with toxic, high stat students with no people or hand skills.

Worry about yourself and let them fall where they fall. It is not your job to look next to you and compare. You will only take away focus on how much harder and better you can work.

TL;DR- there is justice out there for people who work hard, stay humble, and want the best not only for themselves but those around them.

You just might not see justice until 4th year. Hang in there and keep working hard. Find every chance to be kind to those who deserve it around you. Pick programs not on name brand but on things you value.

I'm 2 months into first year and everything he said has been true. It's not even funny how accurate this is.

 

[PTPuser]

I keep telling myself that rotations and externships / OR time will be one of the most honest places in the world. It will be painfully obvious who has the skill and knowledge for the job.

I keep telling myself to keep grinding and block out the noise but sometimes it's hard.

 

[Weirdy]

I keep telling myself that rotations and externships / OR time will be one of the most honest places in the world. It will be painfully obvious who has the skill and knowledge for the job.

I keep telling myself to keep grinding and block out the noise but sometimes it's hard.

Hated 1st year. Constant anxiety of passing class or failing out, seeing classmates study this way and that, seeing them breeze through some of their classes. The inevitable p*ssing contest of "hur di durr i'm medical student now" or "I know xyz doctor and will land xyz residency cause I have my hands in every important club".

Also met incredible individuals who were some of the smartest, most genuine and helpful people ever. People who would see me struggle and unapproached, would check on me and give me all their notes, tell me how they studied, push me to study with them. Made life long friends. Sometimes you just have to laugh at the enormity of the pressure.

Work hard. Be humble. Be nice when you have an opportunity to those around you.

Then go murder it during clinicals. Let your work speak for itself and let the residents and attendings you work with at different programs get back to your home program.

 

[PTPuser]

Hated 1st year. Constant anxiety of passing class or failing out, seeing classmates study this way and that, seeing them breeze through some of their classes. The inevitable p*ssing contest of "hur di durr i'm medical student now" or "I know xyz doctor and will land xyz residency cause I have my hands in every important club".

Also met incredible individuals who were some of the smartest, most genuine and helpful people ever. People who would see me struggle and unapproached, would check on me and give me all their notes, tell me how they studied, push me to study with them. Made life long friends. Sometimes you just have to laugh at the enormity of the pressure.

Work hard. Be humble. Be nice when you have an opportunity to those around you.

Then go murder it during clinicals. Let your work speak for itself and let the residents and attendings you work with at different programs get back to your home program.

The bold part is absolute nightmare. I am going through that right this moment. It's really toxic. Worst than high school. I absolutely cannot stand the majority of the people in my class and dread the idea of constantly having to work with them in our endless group projects.

I'm a naturally anxious person and these past two months my anxiety has been through the roof.

It doesn't help either than if the class acts up, we're punished as a whole so there's no team mentality. Everyone is on their own and people are throwing everyone and anyone under the bus for everything. These people have no sense of ownership whatsoever and are constantly demanding ridiculous things from professor and our school...

I pray every day that it gets better as time goes on. I keep telling myself it can't rain every day.

I'm happy to be here and trying my best but Lord, my classmates are something else.

 

[groovy341]

The bold part is absolute nightmare. I am going through that right this moment. It's really toxic. Worst than high school. I absolutely cannot stand the majority of the people in my class and dread the idea of constantly having to work with them in our endless group projects.

I'm a naturally anxious person and these past two months my anxiety has been through the roof.

It doesn't help either than if the class acts up, we're punished as a whole so there's no team mentality. Everyone is on their own and people are throwing everyone and anyone under the bus for everything. These people have no sense of ownership whatsoever and are constantly demanding ridiculous things from professor and our school...

I pray every day that it gets better as time goes on. I keep telling myself it can't rain every day.

I'm happy to be here and trying my best but Lord, my classmates are something else.

Your program sounds absolutely god awful and I'm sorry that this is your experience. I too am in first year and have had nothing but the complete opposite of your experience. I really hope it gets better for you or you at least find a way to cope with it well enough to stay focused and successful.

 

[DexterMorganSK]

The bold part is absolute nightmare. I am going through that right this moment. It's really toxic. Worst than high school. I absolutely cannot stand the majority of the people in my class and dread the idea of constantly having to work with them in our endless group projects.

I'm a naturally anxious person and these past two months my anxiety has been through the roof.

It doesn't help either than if the class acts up, we're punished as a whole so there's no team mentality. Everyone is on their own and people are throwing everyone and anyone under the bus for everything. These people have no sense of ownership whatsoever and are constantly demanding ridiculous things from professor and our school...

I pray every day that it gets better as time goes on. I keep telling myself it can't rain every day.

I'm happy to be here and trying my best but Lord, my classmates are something else.

Sorry, you're going through all that. My only advice would be for you not to let the classroom 'drama' affect your studies or your health.

Doing well in classes is mainly through self-learning, so you can focus on your tasks and moving on. Get the most out of lectures, ask questions, and be calm. Since Podiatry is a small field, the chances of seeing one of your classmates during residency are likely, so I would try to be cool with everyone.

I had a similar environment when I first started, but after the first semester, it was all right. I was a non-trad, so finding friends who were around my age helped to make a study group and now friends for life Having friends that you can study with and rely on is pertinent...and IMO 1-2 is enough while being cool with everyone else. That said, don't get anxious from everyday nonsense; think of the bigger picture, you will be out to clinics soon, and you probably won't see the majority of your classmates from then. Study hard and move on.

 

[Redsting]

Neither. Good personality and good work ethic. If you have those I can teach you and will want to teach you.
If you show up to my clinic with a 4.0 GPA and are dull, or a know it all, or are late and don't want do do anything then you're out.
Going above and beyond is good too.