What's so bad about a DO?

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I know a DO Urologist that graduated from UNT. I'm certain that he is very happy with his position in life.


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La Presse said:
I know a DO Urologist that graduated from UNT. I'm certain that he is very happy with his position in life.


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Congratulations. As I said, there are examples of DOs in any field you want. It's just much harder to get there. Also, for Urology particularly, there do exist a few DO urology residencies (although very few). To underscore my point about it just being easier coming out of an MD program though, very few MD residencies will take a DO urologist (happens on the order of 2-5 per year nationally), and there are 15-16 spots in DO programs per year for 60+ DO applicants. Yield is 25-27%, vs around 60-70% for fourth year US seniors overall.
 
ChiDO said:
No one cares except pre-med forums on SDN.:corny:
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moneytree said:
And residency directors at top academic hospitals who never accept DOs...
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I feel like the perception of DOs is analogous to the perception of political solutions in our country. Both sides are so extremist and will make statements they know to be hyperbolic just to counterbalance the hyperbole on the other side. The truth is somewhere in the middle, but the polarized environment makes it nearly impossible to see.
 
aloepathic said:
Congratulations. As I said, there are examples of DOs in any field you want. It's just much harder to get there. Also, for Urology particularly, there do exist a few DO urology residencies (although very few). To underscore my point about it just being easier coming out of an MD program though, very few MD residencies will take a DO urologist (happens on the order of 2-5 per year nationally), and there are 15-16 spots in DO programs per year for 60+ DO applicants. Yield is 25-27%, vs around 60-70% for fourth year US seniors overall.
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I'm aware...


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the orthopedic surgeon who operated on me multiple times is a DO, i didn't mind
 
TriagePreMed said:
Do you have any reliable statistics showing that the majority of Osteopathic students are applying to MD residencies? Outside of the SDN world, I've met a lot of people that prefer Osteopathic medicine and want to do Osteopathic residencies. SDN pushes the idea that every DO student is just a failed MD applicants and that they are desperate for MD residencies. Even of the "failed MD applicants," many end up preferring Osteopathic medicine and its residencies.

And in the interest of fairness, yes, many are "failed MD applicants" and many DO students entered with lower scores and are thus not as good, academically, to MD counterparts, although fairness will also say that you can't just assume based on a degree and that there are MDs not as good as DOs; albeit lesser than the other way around.
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The numbers in my post come from the AACOM and the NRMP. Those are reliable statistics and show that most DO students try to get into MD residencies.

edit:If you look at the AOA match numbers, there are about half as many slots available as there are DO graduates looking for a slot and about a third of those go unfilled. http://www.natmatch.com/aoairp/stats/2012prgstats.html
 
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In a year look back on this thread, and you will all laugh about how silly this argument is. If someone wants to be a DO then that is their choice not any of ours.
 
PassThatMcat said:
In a year look back on this thread, and you will all laugh about how silly this argument is. If someone wants to be a DO then that is their choice not any of ours.
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Or at any of the other 50+ posts within the last year with the same underlying argument.
 
Bacchus said:
You need to get over names. Some of the best schools in our country have awful programs.
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I never said they provided good teaching. MGH/BWH are sometimes mentioned as malignant programs, but you can't deny that their residents are rockstars. You may not want to go there, but I'm sure many, many med students would eat dog poo to get in. Even if a DO candidate eats dog diarrhea, their app still goes straight to the circular file at MGH.
 
The funniest thing about this thread is that many people are bashing the D.O degree when they themselves hold nothing. C'mon people it's simple logic, go MD if you get in, otherwise go DO and be a doctor. If you can't even get into a DO school you don't deserve to be a doctor
 
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Hemorrage said:
The funniest thing about this thread is that many people are bashing the D.O degree when they themselves hold nothing. C'mon people it's simple logic, go MD if you get in, otherwise to DO and be a doctor. If you can't even get into a DO school you don't deserve to be a doctor
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This
 
Hemorrage said:
The funniest thing about this thread is that many people are bashing the D.O degree when they themselves hold nothing. C'mon people it's simple logic, go MD if you get in, otherwise go DO and be a doctor. If you can't even get into a DO school you don't deserve to be a doctor
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Talks about pre-meds bashing DO degree...indirectly bashes DO schools two sentences later. :laugh:
 
Fivo said:
Talks about pre-meds bashing DO degree...indirectly bashes DO schools two sentences later. :laugh:
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I'm not bashing DO, i'm simply stating that MD is the preferred degree because D.O granting schools have lower gpa/mcat requirements. If you can't meet the lower standard (D.O relative to M.D) then you shouldn't be a physician in the first place
 
Hemorrage said:
I'm not bashing DO, i'm simply stating that MD is the preferred degree because D.O granting schools have lower gpa/mcat requirements. If you can't meet the lower standard (D.O relative to M.D) then you shouldn't be a physician in the first place
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Someone should notify all the Carib MDs that they should turn in their licenses because they "shouldn't be a physician in the first place."
 
DO is just as good as MD in 2013. This isn't the old days. They even match into the same residencies.
 
Moosepig said:
DO makes it harder to match to something competitive. Otherwise though, you're a practicing doctor. I want to go into primary care so for me it's not too big a deal either way.

If DO is your only or best option, by all means apply for it. Being a PCP is way way better than not practicing at all if medicine is your dream.

Bottom line: DO is less than ideal but way way better than nothing.
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It's still hard to match into a competitive specialty regardless lol.
There's also a DO orthopaedist at the hospital I work at, but yeah n=1.
 
Hemorrage said:
I'm not bashing DO, i'm simply stating that MD is the preferred degree because D.O granting schools have lower gpa/mcat requirements. If you can't meet the lower standard (D.O relative to M.D) then you shouldn't be a physician in the first place
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I think, then, people who can't spell hemorrhage shouldn't be doctors....
 
moneytree said:
Someone should notify all the Carib MDs that they should turn in their licenses because they "shouldn't be a physician in the first place."
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Carib model is accepting 1000 students and failing 500 of them. When you admit that many students, you're bound to have success stories. No body likes to themself to be one of the 500 that fail out. Everyone going to that island is under the mindset that they'll be #1 in their class.
 
The bad part about DO is it bars you from doing a top-ranked residency program at MGH or whatever...but 99% of us wouldn't be doing a top-ranked residency at MGH or whatever even if we went to an MD school, so it's a non-issue.
 
circulus vitios said:
The bad part about DO is it bars you from doing a top-ranked residency program at MGH or whatever...but 99% of us wouldn't be doing a top-ranked residency at MGH or whatever even if we went to an MD school, so it's a non-issue.
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It doesn't necessarily bar you. But yeah, pretty much what you said.
 
School rankings matter when choosing between two MD candidates, so you would wrong to think that the DO tag wouldn't matter at all. Whether this impacts your career much depends a lot on what you want out of a career.

As someone said earlier, the system is a bit stacked against DOs. More than just the DO tag, there tend to be more research opportunities at MD schools, and MD schools tend to have more well-known academic centers and faculty that have connections.

Individual effort is still the largest contributor to where you end up in the future, but it would be a mistake to discredit the role that your school plays (this isn't just DO vs. MD, this is choosing between two MD schools as well). There are many factors at play including cost, location, etc, but it is always worth it to consider prestige too.
 
I have talked to many people (whom didn't know I was going to be a D.O.) that actively seek out osteopathic physicians because the treatment is more holistic and centered on preventative. Our society, especially in the U.S., is moving towards those approaches to medical care, making the D.O. philosophy more popular.

There may still be some stigmas in the higher ranks. But DOs still manage to get those awesome sub-specialty positions as mentioned. I have met a RS with a D.O. degree. He loves his job and is very successful.

M.D. = D.O. > Caribbean
 
I have posted this before, but I feel like it needs to be posted again...

DO school is like a hand dryer in a public restroom. You know if paper towels are available you are always going to pick them over having hot air blown on your hands. Hand dryers are always telling you why they are a better alternative to paper towels (good for environment, etc). Every now and then you might meet a person who prefers hand dryers, but you know something is a little off and secretly they yearn to dry their hands with a paper towel if given the opportunity. Some people even forgo drying their hands if there are no paper towels. Ultimately, both paper towels and hand dryers accomplish their goal of drying your hands, but one never truly feels dry when using a hand dryer. This is DO school in a nutshell.

Also, Carribean schools are like toilet paper...they barely dry your hands and leave a terrible residue.
 
notbobtrustme said:
DO students who take the USMLE are self-selecting. Weaker students most likely won't waste the money and time preparing for a test they might not do well on.
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The tests are practically the same though, right?
 
I'd rather go top tier DO than bottom feeder USMD. 😛
 
I knew a few people that as pre-meds were against DO tooth and nail. I'll never do DO.

One is now a nurse. The other is getting their chemistry PhD. Which, nothing at all is wrong with either.

But, if you grew up always wanting to be a physician, I think you really failed by becoming a nurse or a chemist than a DO.
 
pathologyDO said:
M.D. = D.O. > Caribbean
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You're missing a few ">" in there. It should be MD= DO >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Carribean/ IMG. I've made many pro-Carribean and IMG enemies here on SDN over spring break, but no regrets!
 
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Some people think that DOs practice "pseudoscience" but that is completely false. DOs learn the exact same things that MDs learn + the addition of another topic.

Edit: MD = DO >>>>> Caribbean >>>>>>> Other International medical schools (such as UK schools. lol).
 
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Weewee said:
I have posted this before, but I feel like it needs to be posted again...

DO school is like a hand dryer in a public restroom. You know if paper towels are available you are always going to pick them over having hot air blown on your hands. Hand dryers are always telling you why they are a better alternative to paper towels (good for environment, etc). Every now and then you might meet a person who prefers hand dryers, but you know something is a little off and secretly they yearn to dry their hands with a paper towel if given the opportunity. Some people even forgo drying their hands if there are no paper towels. Ultimately, both paper towels and hand dryers accomplish their goal of drying your hands, but one never truly feels dry when using a hand dryer. This is DO school in a nutshell.

Also, Carribean schools are like toilet paper...they barely dry your hands and leave a terrible residue.
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Does this clever analogy make it into resumes and CVs too?

I shudder imagining that kinda thinking allowing one to be successful.

Again, it was clever though!
 
I'm a DO and I've never kicked a puppy but will boot the @#^# out of a snail on my way into morning report.
I have, however, used the search function on SDN and google on the Internet with great success.
The OP has got to be one of the laziest trolls ever and wants to start up crap that he could have easily found by reading the thousands of other posts about MDs and DOs and the myths of their competition between the two groups on just about every subject possible.
Please use your (barely) oposable digits to search for the information before starting threads like this

[/interest]
 
Lysilegluleu said:
Does this clever analogy make it into resumes and CVs too?

I shudder imagining that kinda thinking allowing one to be successful.

Again, it was clever though!
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I am going to frame it over my desk in a million years when I am finally a doctor (emphasis on doctor just like my future DO colleagues). I have nothing but love for DOs. Sorry to seem insensitive, it was just meant to be entertaining.

But....You know the second you find out about your on hold MD acceptance you will jump ship.
 
DO's are often confused for OD's and physicians assistants.

P.S. never call a physician assistant a physicians assistant.
 
Chemdude said:
DO's are often confused for OD's and physicians assistants.

P.S. never call a physician assistant a physicians assistant.
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So what do you call them?
 
A physician assistant. Never call them a *physician's assistant. They get really upset if you call them that.
 
I think many pre-meds/ MDS think that DO curriculum is heavy on OMM, when in fact its actually not.

We have to take about 4 hours of OMM/ week during the first two years but this is a SEPARATE class, and most DO students end up hating it.

Basically our entire curriculum (with the exception of those 4 hours/ week in the separate course) is a normal allopathic type curriculum taught by MDs/PhDs/ and some DOs. This means we learn to diagnose with imaging, CBC, CMP, etc etc. We also learn to treat with the usual drugs, surgeries etc.

I have finished every single system at this point as I finish up second year. When we learn about diseases, they never tell us "oh and by the way, use OMM to treat this". That only happens in our OMM class (which most people ignore anyway). I've never seen a question on an exam (outside of OMM) relating to OMM.

Maybe this clarifies some myths
 
I'm not currently living in the US, so pardon me for my ignorance, but:

1. Do all patients recognize the DO degree as one that practices medicine, like the commonly-acknowledged MD degree?

2. Do patients ever frown upon doctors who are DO instead of MD? Ie. If they are searching for a doctor in private practice, all else being else, would they prefer a MD over a DO?

Would the answer to the 2 questions above be about 2-5% of the American population?
 
nychila said:
I'm not currently living in the US, so pardon me for my ignorance, but:

1. Do all patients recognize the DO degree as one that practices medicine, like the commonly-acknowledged MD degree?

2. Do patients ever frown upon doctors who are DO instead of MD? Ie. If they are searching for a doctor in private practice, all else being else, would they prefer a MD over a DO?

Would the answer to the 2 questions above be about 2-5% of the American population?
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nvm
 
When is someone going to compile these reasons and make a sticky?

THIS TOPIC COMES UP ABOUT EVERY MONTH!!!
 
nychila said:
I'm not currently living in the US, so pardon me for my ignorance, but:

1. Do all patients recognize the DO degree as one that practices medicine, like the commonly-acknowledged MD degree?

2. Do patients ever frown upon doctors who are DO instead of MD? Ie. If they are searching for a doctor in private practice, all else being else, would they prefer a MD over a DO?

Would the answer to the 2 questions above be about 2-5% of the American population?
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No, most patients don't know what a DO is nor do they care. They see a white coat and think "doctor" even if you're a nurse practitioner. Yes, some patients don't want to be seen by a DO, but some patients don't want to be seen by an MD. Given that their salary is the same and equally competitive in getting an average physician job, there's no reason to believe a DO degree will hinder you as an attending.
 
Chemdude said:
A physician assistant. Never call them a *physician's assistant. They get really upset if you call them that.
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Like... assistant regional manager vs assistant to the regional manager?
 
There's a DO that runs a well-known orthopedic practice in my town. He's a graduate of UNECOM, a respected orthopedic surgeon and, chair of orthopedic surgery at the nearby major hospital. Everyone loves him and his staff.

When he's not working, he's out sailing.

Make of life what you will.
 
It wont matter in the end. Nurse practitioners will eventually take over.
 
aloepathic said:
Basically, the really competitive specialties have a giant stigma against DO candidates. Right or wrong this is verifiably true. Yes there are DO orthopedists, DO dermatologists, and DO ______. But they are few and far between, and just as it's a somewhat unrealistic idea to go to the Caribbean planning on being number one in your class and matching neurosurg, so too it's somewhat unrealistic to go to a DO school with the same plan
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true and true. But since a large majority of MD's can't match at competitive residencies anyways, this should be a non issue for most run of the mill medical students, MD or DO.
 
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