What's so bad about Caribbean med schools?

[patisserie]

I'm looking at this page... https://baysgu35.sgu.edu/ERD/2009/ResidPost.nsf/BYPGY?OpenView&RestrictToCategory=PGY1&Count=-1
...which has the residency postings for 2009 for St. George's. It really doesn't seem bad at all?

What are the cons of attending a Caribbean school for someone who wants to practice in the US? Does anyone know someone who went to a carib school or have personal experience of life after carib med school?

Thanks!

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[persianprep08]

my brother is attending one now and from the research that he did he found out that if you graduate there you can kiss a surgery residency goodbye.
If you want to go into a competitive field you need to go to a US school. but if you want to go into something less competitive then the Carabians are fine.

 

[Medison]

God forbid..the beach

 

[7starmantis]

The search function works great, but then you know that because when you created the thread it showed you others that were similar.

Where is that other thread about canned responses when you need it...

 

[muhali3]

It's fine if you want to go into primary care, but even specialties like anesthesiology are very hard to get into if you're coming from the Carrib, whereas if you come from a US MD/DO school it is only mildly competitive.

 

[Hoody]

Ross University 2009 Residency appointment list....


same thing as a match list?

 

[muhali3]

Ross University 2009 Residency appointment list....


same thing as a match list?

Yeah, it's the same thing, the only reason they don't call it a "match" list is because some students went to residencies that did not use the NRMP (National Residency Matching Program)

 

[Hoody]

Medical School: A Non Traditional Approach

 

[Kid A]

Cons to going to Caribbean:

-High attrition rates compared to MD/DO schools. Almost everyone at US schools will graduate, but a decent amount will not finish at Caribbean schools.
-Quality of 3rd and 4th year rotations. They just aren't the same quality of US schools, so many students are rotating around and the schools often times don't help them setting things up.
-Cost being even higher than the already expensive US schools especially if they have to go for more than 4 years.
-Residency Placements- A decent number don't match and with new MD/DO schools opening up now it's just going to get worse with no new Residencies opening up, but more US students taking those spots. Even if they do get a spot often times their only options are primary care and even those aren't at the greatest of sites. Sure there are exceptions, but it's not the norm for someone going to the Caribbean.

 

[patisserie]

What is a match list? lol sorry excuse my ignorance

 

[muhali3]

I think the main difference is the percent of students who match and not what specialties the students get into. The reason it looks like a good match list is because they have such a large class size, so that even if 1% of the class matches into radiology, it looks like a lot. I'm not saying it's a bad match list, I'm just saying you shouldn't go to the Carribean if you're aiming for a competitive specialty.

 

[anonymousername]

What is a match list? lol sorry excuse my ignorance

unlike applying to college and med school, a medical student needs to "match" into a residency. This is like Avatar where you need to choose a residency but the residency program in a teaching hospital needs to choose you. When both of you "match" you can fly around half naked on your crazy birds and be trained in a specialty like IM, surgery...after that you can sub specialize.


Besides the Avatar reference, if there are any inaccuracies, please correct me.

 

[J ROD]

the Caribbean is a last resort for practicing in the US....that simple...

 

[DrBowtie]

God forbid..the beach

Some of these places are a small step above Haiti (pre-earthquake).

 

[Cybii]

unlike applying to college and med school, a medical student needs to "match" into a residency. This is like Avatar where you need to choose a residency but the residency program in a teaching hospital needs to choose you. When both of you "match" you can fly around half naked on your crazy birds and be trained in a specialty like IM, surgery...after that you can sub specialize.


Besides the Avatar reference, if there are any inaccuracies, please correct me.

Wow... I love your analogy!

 

[Pills Of Soap]

unlike applying to college and med school, a medical student needs to "match" into a residency. This is like Avatar where you need to choose a residency but the residency program in a teaching hospital needs to choose you. When both of you "match" you can fly around half naked on your crazy birds and be trained in a specialty like IM, surgery...after that you can sub specialize.


Besides the Avatar reference, if there are any inaccuracies, please correct me.

can i be your friend? good reference haha

 

[cho15]

unlike applying to college and med school, a medical student needs to "match" into a residency. This is like Avatar where you need to choose a residency but the residency program in a teaching hospital needs to choose you. When both of you "match" you can fly around half naked on your crazy birds and be trained in a specialty like IM, surgery...after that you can sub specialize.


Besides the Avatar reference, if there are any inaccuracies, please correct me.

You are officially awesome b/c you referenced my now favorite movie!

More according to the topic of discussion (not avatar, sadly) I have 2 friends, 1 attending med school in the Philippines and 1 going to Ross, and I feel somewhat scared for them...neither one tried to apply to US MD schools one more time like I did. I think the Carribbean is misleading and should only be a last last resort and not a quick answer, if that makes sense.

 

[ILikeDrugs]

my brother is attending one now and from the research that he did he found out that if you graduate there you can kiss a surgery residency goodbye.

Either your brother is lying or you are blind.
I think it's both.
I counted at least 45.

 

[FutureCTDoc]

Most Caribbean students need significantly higher USMLEs to qualify for a surgical position i.e. 215+ Step I scores for categorical. Go through that list and see how many are just prelims.

 

[apumic]

The search function works great, but then you know that because when you created the thread it showed you others that were similar.

Where is that other thread about canned responses when you need it...

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=694214

Anyone else sometimes (often) feel like you give the same, almost canned advice to posters over and over again?! It seems everyone has their own question that's been asked 1000+ times before but with its own subtle nuances that are completely insignificant. It's like... everybody wants their question answered specifically... if only there were some way of finding the answers previous posters got to the exact same question. If only there were some way of quickly looking through posts for your question... I mean, seeing as you're going to get the exact same answer the last 600 people did when they asked that question, it'd be really nice to be able to get that much information. I mean, 600 threads about that topic x 20 posts/thread would be 12,000 different opinions about your question. It's not likely I would get even 1200, much less 12,000, replies to my question. I just wish there were some way of accessing all of those previous replies to my question without having to click through all 127,330 threads....

(Anything to help)

 

[J1515]

Either your brother is lying or you are blind.
I think it's both.
I counted at least 45.

Or a pre-med doesn't know what he's talking about. There's a huge difference between categorical vs preliminary surgery.

 

[Evergrey]

Cool, someone from SGU got into a surgery residency at "Stamford."

Yes, that's a [sic] folks.

Edit: apparently there is a Stamford Hospital in Connecticut. I stand corrected

 

[Theory]

Cool, someone from SGU got into a surgery residency at "Stamford."

Yes, that's a [sic] folks.

Stamford is a major hospital in Stamford, Connecticut.

 

[riverjib]

I'm looking at this page... https://baysgu35.sgu.edu/ERD/2009/ResidPost.nsf/BYPGY?OpenView&RestrictToCategory=PGY1&Count=-1
...which has the residency postings for 2009 for St. George's. It really doesn't seem bad at all?

What are the cons of attending a Caribbean school for someone who wants to practice in the US? Does anyone know someone who went to a carib school or have personal experience of life after carib med school?

Thanks!

Nothing wrong with it, if you're okay with the stats. Personally, I'd rather invest another two years improving my application before applying to Caribbean schools. Until they become as selective as US med schools, the bias is still there. Caribbean MDs are less competitive than US MDs for residency slots. If I wanted to go into primary care, I'd choose PA or NP, and save myself years of hard work.

 

[Hoody]

Do not go to the Carribean!

I'm married to an SGU student who is currently in rotations at a U.S. hospital. Let me tell you -- it really sucks for him.

Wonder if it sucks for this dude?

 

[petyr_baelish]

Wonder if it sucks for this dude?

There are always exceptions. The problem lies here: as an SGU student, you get the short end of the stick when it comes to clinical education. I once heard that you can learn basic sciences in a cave off the coast of Madagascar, but if your clinical rotations are good then you've got it made. The reverse is true for SGU -- their clinical rotations leave a lot to be desired.

So I can only speak about our experiences. We wanted to live in California, and found out that the only hospital you can do all of your core rotations at is Kern, which is in Bakersfield. Who in their right mind wants to go to Bakersfield? Nuff said. Don't be fooled by the "SGU has a lot of affiliated hospitals." Spots are incredibly limited, and furthermore, only certain rotations are allowed to be completed in those hospitals, which translates into a lot of moving around. So we came to NY -- the hospital system is huge and yet SGU students get the short end of the stick again: there is only one good hospital that everyone tries to get into (Maimonides) and the rest of the students are subjected to things like hospitals losing their paeds residency in the middle of their rotation which means they have to repeat it, etc. Overall it's the lack of organization and lack of pedogogy that makes these rotations bad -- not even the dismal locations of their affiliated hospitals.

However, if you are resigned to go to the Caribbean I have some advice: my husband has overcome a lot of the nonsense by being extremely pro-active about his education.

It means studying until 2 am when you have to be up at 5, due to being overworked as a med student because the hospital won't hire more residents.

It means becoming an escape artist when you are assigned a bad resident who makes you do scutwork when you are supposed to leave. It means finding out who the ghost attending is so you don't have to deal with residents who cannot or will not teach.

It means skipping the occasional conference to go see patients so that you can impress your attending.

It means being super nice to administration so that they can arrange longer than 2-week electives (because of the massive demand) during your third year requirement rotation, so that you maximize your chances of matching into your desired specialty.

It means being super-optimistic about your credentials (board scores, gpa, letters of rec) because you know that the cards are stacked against you come match day.

If you are a go-getter and have to go to SGU, it may work out for you. But it adds another layer of variability in an already variable situation: the match. The match determines the rest of your life. If you think you can work hard then, why not work hard now and get into a U.S. MD or D.O. school?

 

[7starmantis]

The people who keep referring others to the search function have obviously spent way too much time on SDN. Who cares if topics are repeated? History repeats itself!

Lol, you have obviously spent to little time on SDN

Bottom line is there lies a wealth of information on this very subject at the fingertips of the OP. Who knows what kind of information will be garnered by this thread, but many more responses than this are out there, on SDN, if one were so inclined.

Just saying

 

[WNT Signaling]

Remember, the match list does not tell you who didn't match. A school might match 7 people into rads, but the match list cannot tell you that 15 people from that school tried to match in rads

 

[BBender716]

I wish they had a little guy like this who held up a sign that said "Search Function" instead...

 

[nonsciencemajor]

this is just my personal opinion, but I believe the hierarchy is like this:

US MD > UK/Australia Med School >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SGU > US DO >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all of the other carrib schools

* note the so many > is there for a reason. It is to show how big of a difference it is

 

[J1515]

this is just my personal opinion, but I believe the hierarchy is like this:

US MD > UK/Australia Med School >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SGU > US DO >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all of the other carrib schools

* note the so many > is there for a reason. It is to show how big of a difference it is

Ah good. I'm sure we all wanted to hear the personal opinion of a pre-med

 

[swamprat]

this is just my personal opinion, but I believe the hierarchy is like this:

US MD > UK/Australia Med School >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SGU > US DO >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all of the other carrib schools

* note the so many > is there for a reason. It is to show how big of a difference it is

What is your gripe with DO? I have seen numerous posts with you talking trash about anything DO its kind of ridiculous, especially if you are planning on going into this field.

 

[brooklynblunder]

What is your gripe with DO? I have seen numerous posts with you talking trash about anything DO its kind of ridiculous, especially if you are planning on going into this field.

seriously, i cant tell if hes serious

 

[WDeagle]

What is your gripe with DO? I have seen numerous posts with you talking trash about anything DO its kind of ridiculous, especially if you are planning on going into this field.

He also whines about being a non-science major alot. He's gonna be that one complainy guy in your class that complains about anything just to complain about it. That dude usually ends up being the guy that attendings hate just to hate.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

this is just my personal opinion, but I believe the hierarchy is like this:

US MD > UK/Australia Med School >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SGU > US DO >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all of the other carrib schools

* note the so many > is there for a reason. It is to show how big of a difference it is

I would like to grant you the pre-med award of the year. You dont have to thank anyone or say anything.. It'd be probably more appriciated if you just leave .

on this topic, many australian schools that accept the the mcat more or less have pretty low standards. I know Queensbury is like 3.4 + 23 mcat, significantly lower then any D.O school. Im beginning to think your a troll who is seriously making non-science majors look bad .

 

[schrizto]

I would like to grant you the pre-med award of the year. You dont have to thank anyone or say anything.. It'd be probably more appriciated if you just leave .

on this topic, many australian schools that accept the the mcat more or less have pretty low standards. I know Queensbury is like 3.4 + 23 mcat, significantly lower then any D.O school. Im beginning to think your a troll who is seriously making non-science majors look bad .

LOL Queensbury. It's Queensland and I doubt their standards are that low. UK/Australia/Caribbean are all grouped together as IMGs anyway.

 

[nonsciencemajor]

I would like to grant you the pre-med award of the year. You dont have to thank anyone or say anything.. It'd be probably more appriciated if you just leave .

on this topic, many australian schools that accept the the mcat more or less have pretty low standards. I know Queensbury is like 3.4 + 23 mcat, significantly lower then any D.O school. Im beginning to think your a troll who is seriously making non-science majors look bad .

I am not talking about some Australian med school or a med school with a US program, which is not recognized by the australian government. the med schools/and or programs that are accredited by the australian government I thought have near a 30 mcat requirement. Not sure about GPA... when I applied to med schools, I only applied to US MD schools and was fortunate to be accepted to multiple schools. The reason why you dont hear many students going to UK/Australia schools is that there admissions process is almost as hard as US MD school admissions. Usually the requirments are very similiar, so chances are if you get into a UK/Australia school you will also get into US MD school, and then virtually every applicant goes to US MD school for cost and LCME recognition.

DO schools are good, but the degree that is conferred is a DO. I have heard many cases of DO physicians being marganilized when it comes to jobs (especially in CA) and the difficulty in recruiting patients. Also DO have a stigma against them in residency programs, especially where there are FMG's (not Carrib's... true FMG's) as they have never even heard of DO.

 

[nonsciencemajor]

He also whines about being a non-science major alot. He's gonna be that one complainy guy in your class that complains about anything just to complain about it. That dude usually ends up being the guy that attendings hate just to hate.

really... wow... I am actually very well liked by both students and faculty. Why? Because I am well-rounded. I like to hang out with friends, go to social events, participate in greek organization activities, etc... while handling college and courses, studying for MCAT, and being involved in research projects all at the same time.... its kinda sad how there are 24 hours in a day, as it usually means for me a compromise in sleep.....

so yea, I am sure attendings really like to hate well-rounded people, and rather prefer to have students who study 24/7 and dont even have the time to take a shower or have any sense of social skills what-so-ever.... i see them all the time, and I see all the love people have for these gunners..... it makes me jealous, how much attention they get

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

really... wow... I am actually very well liked by both students and faculty. Why? Because I am well-rounded. I like to hang out with friends, go to social events, participate in greek organization activities, etc... while handling college and courses, studying for MCAT, and being involved in research projects all at the same time.... its kinda sad how there are 24 hours in a day, as it usually means for me a compromise in sleep.....

heres a well rounded individual

 

[nonsciencemajor]

heres a well rounded individual

no not really... i think people would see he is not taking care of his own health... image and looks are included in being well-rounded...

i know the world is very superficial, but this is the reality unfortunately

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I am not talking about some Australian med school or a med school with a US program, which is not recognized by the australian government. the med schools/and or programs that are accredited by the australian government I thought have near a 30 mcat requirement. Not sure about GPA... when I applied to med schools, I only applied to US MD schools and was fortunate to be accepted to multiple schools. The reason why you dont hear many students going to UK/Australia schools is that there admissions process is almost as hard as US MD school admissions. Usually the requirments are very similiar, so chances are if you get into a UK/Australia school you will also get into US MD school, and then virtually every applicant goes to US MD school for cost and LCME recognition.

DO schools are good, but the degree that is conferred is a DO. I have heard many cases of DO physicians being marganilized when it comes to jobs (especially in CA) and the difficulty in recruiting patients. Also DO have a stigma against them in residency programs, especially where there are FMG's (not Carrib's... true FMG's) as they have never even heard of DO.

actually queens'land' is certified by the Australian board of medicine.
you can opt to do american residency or aussie residency

hmm the "stigma" is pre-med BS.
anyway good for you getting into US Med schools.. though i was pretty sure you said you were a sophmore last time we talked

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

no not really... i think people would see he is not taking care of his own health... image and looks are included in being well-rounded...

i know the world is very superficial, but this is the reality unfortunately

Snickers..
hahahaha..
im sorry but you dont watch anime do you?

 

[nonsciencemajor]

actually queens'land' is certified by the Australian board of medicine.
you can opt to do american residency or aussie residency

hmm the "stigma" is pre-med BS.
anyway good for you getting into US Med schools.. though i was pretty sure you said you were a sophmore last time we talked

where did you get the idea I was a sophomore... i didnt even know about SDN when I was a sophomore..

i take that back... i heard of SDN but never checked it

yea last time we talked, was about something like the importance of medical humanities class... never once did I mention even anything about me being a sophomore, so I have no idea where you got that idea...

the only time I may have talked about sophomore, is that till sophomore year I was an undeclared major taking only med school pre-req's and gen ed's and it is through my experience with gen ed's that I knew which major I wanted to declare my junior year.

 

[nonsciencemajor]

Snickers..
hahahaha..
im sorry but you dont watch anime do you?

no... i watch south park, but thats about it.. and i watch south park when I am terribly bored out of my mind

 

[CarlATHF]

I am not talking about some Australian med school or a med school with a US program, which is not recognized by the australian government. the med schools/and or programs that are accredited by the australian government I thought have near a 30 mcat requirement. Not sure about GPA... when I applied to med schools, I only applied to US MD schools and was fortunate to be accepted to multiple schools. The reason why you dont hear many students going to UK/Australia schools is that there admissions process is almost as hard as US MD school admissions. Usually the requirments are very similiar, so chances are if you get into a UK/Australia school you will also get into US MD school, and then virtually every applicant goes to US MD school for cost and LCME recognition.

DO schools are good, but the degree that is conferred is a DO. I have heard many cases of DO physicians being marganilized when it comes to jobs (especially in CA) and the difficulty in recruiting patients. Also DO have a stigma against them in residency programs, especially where there are FMG's (not Carrib's... true FMG's) as they have never even heard of DO.

lololololol now that's quality entertainment.

I know a DO dermatologist and a DO ophthalmologist practicing in California (the derm for 25+ years). DO (get it?) the world a favor: get off your high horse and join the rest of us in reality.

 

[anonymousername]

nonsciencemajor: get into med school first...then get an opinion.

 

[nonsciencemajor]

nonsciencemajor: get into med school first...then get an opinion.

i got into multiple US MD schools all ready.... so yea that is my opinion

 

[anonymousername]

i got into multiple US MD schools all ready.... so yea that is my opinion

fair enough, go to (or graduate from) said school, then get an opinion.

 

[link2swim06]

Wonder if it sucks for this dude?

The point is statistically you have a much better chance in a US med school, in stats are always outliers....

 

[link2swim06]

I am not talking about some Australian med school or a med school with a US program, which is not recognized by the australian government. the med schools/and or programs that are accredited by the australian government I thought have near a 30 mcat requirement. Not sure about GPA... when I applied to med schools, I only applied to US MD schools and was fortunate to be accepted to multiple schools. The reason why you dont hear many students going to UK/Australia schools is that there admissions process is almost as hard as US MD school admissions. Usually the requirments are very similiar, so chances are if you get into a UK/Australia school you will also get into US MD school, and then virtually every applicant goes to US MD school for cost and LCME recognition.

DO schools are good, but the degree that is conferred is a DO. I have heard many cases of DO physicians being marganilized when it comes to jobs (especially in CA) and the difficulty in recruiting patients. Also DO have a stigma against them in residency programs, especially where there are FMG's (not Carrib's... true FMG's) as they have never even heard of DO.

Um no.