What's this I hear about money?

[1ive2die]

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So a number of threads on here talk about pharmacists making a lot of money or pharmacists being in it for the money etc. and I've always wondered, what money?

Granted pharmacists may average a little beyond a 100k a year but when you account for the amount of schooling, liability, and the physical and mental stresses of the job, is that really a lot? It's certainly not a ridiculous amount compared to what some bankers, lawyers, even some tradespeople etc bring in. When you factor in the opportunity cost, the high tuition cost, and debt do pharmacists really come out ahead?

It seems to me that most people, in most industries that gradually work their way up the corporate ladder will meet and exceed a pharmacist's salary during their career and will have more wage earning years overall, thus have more of an opportunity to save and invest.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not scoffing at a pharmacist's salary, I realize it is a nice sum of money that will allow a person to live comfortably but at the same time I don't understand the notion out there that pharmacists are really well compensated or some may go as far as saying they are rich.

I think if you compared your average middle manager out there with your average pharmacist, the middle manager would likely accumulate more wealth than the pharmacist by the end of their career. Yet this idea seems to be lost on a lot of people who just look at the 6 figure starting salary and assume pharmacists are rich.

 

[xiphoid2010]

Nothing to prevent a pharmacist from becoming a mid level manager. Just like most mid-level managers, they have to start somewhere. You can start from flipping burgers or you can start with a Ph.D. The difference is, if you don't succeed, one would be stuck with minimum wage, the other will at least make a decent living.

 

[LazyMooch]

It's not about becoming rich, it's about being guaranteed a spot in the upper middle class. We still have the ability to strike it rich by opting for a management track or good (lucky) investing. However, unlike joe shmo the junior banker, we can fall back on a +100k salary and live a financially better life than 80% of America.

At the end of the day, it's all about your individual perspective. Those of us that grew up poor or middle class see the salary of a pharmacist as a major leap.

Also, business majors are all lame/bro's.

I kid.

well... not really.

 

[owlegrad]

It seems to me that most people, in most industries that gradually work their way up the corporate ladder will meet and exceed a pharmacist's salary during their career and will have more wage earning years overall, thus have more of an opportunity to save and invest.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not scoffing at a pharmacist's salary, I realize it is a nice sum of money that will allow a person to live comfortably but at the same time I don't understand the notion out there that pharmacists are really well compensated or some may go as far as saying they are rich.

I think if you compared your average middle manager out there with your average pharmacist, the middle manager would likely accumulate more wealth than the pharmacist by the end of their career. Yet this idea seems to be lost on a lot of people who just look at the 6 figure starting salary and assume pharmacists are rich.

Shockingly false. I am at a loss for words. No, most people will not exceed a pharmacist's salary within their lifetime. Do some people? Of course. But to think that most people will...never mind.

The answer is no, most people will not raise to the income level of a pharmacist, although some will, and a very small number will become CEO's of successful business and rake in billions. Now that I think about it, you should just go that route. CEO's make far more than most pharmacists.

 

[LazyMooch]

Shockingly false. I am at a loss for words. No, most people will not exceed a pharmacist's salary within their lifetime. Do some people? Of course. But to think that most people will...never mind.

The answer is no, most people will not raise to the income level of a pharmacist, although some will, and a very small number will become CEO's of successful business and rake in billions. Now that I think about it, you should just go that route. CEO's make far more than most pharmacists.

Lazy Mooch: So what are your plans after getting your undergrad?

Senior Business Major: Imma get my MBA and and become a CEO and make **** tons of cash! Hey, why haven't you finished that beer?

Lazy Mooch: I just opened it...

Senior Business Major: shotgun that you bitch!

Lazy Mooch: ......

 

[owlegrad]

Lazy Mooch: So what are your plans after getting your undergrad?

Senior Business Major: Imma get my MBA and and become a CEO and make **** tons of cash! Hey, why haven't you finished that beer?

Lazy Mooch: I just opened it...

Senior Business Major: shotgun that you b****!

Lazy Mooch: ......

I thought you put it pretty well above. How do people think that 100k+ is the norm or on the low end? Perspective, amIright? It just boggles my mind. Of course it is not "rich", but it is way, way above median wages.

 

[Farcus]

Yes 100-140k is not that much money but anything above 100k is at the top 15.8% income bracket in the usa. So out of 100 people you earn more than well over 85-86 people. Not to mention most pharmacist are clearly 100k unless you're part time.

 

[owlegrad]

Yes 100-140k is not that much money but anything above 100k is at the top 15.8% income bracket in the usa. So out of 100 people you earn more than well over 85-86 people. Not to mention most pharmacist are clearly 100k unless you're part time.

Oddly specific.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

"most people" don't eventually work their way up to 100k. My husband has a very good job but doesn't make nearly that much. He probably will some day, but that will be after many years in management. It's taken 15 years to go from where he started (8 bucks an hour, part time at night) to where he is now. Yes he was a business major and works in mgmt for Fortune 500 company. The idea that 100K isn't much or is just average or whatever is nuts.

 

[Dr Wario]

The financial attractiveness of pharmacy will likely change in the coming decades with saturation and automation, but today it does offer unique monetary rewards. Personally, pharmacy is used as a gateway to financial independence through investing and business ownership, the timeline for which was the most expedited out of the multitude of career options.

Before starting college I had a list of about twenty possible career paths and I calculated their total earning potential over a fifteen year time horizon (accounting for training/education requirements) and pharmacy came out #1 adjusting for relative risk. Yes, opening one's own business out of hs could earn more, but the risk is very high unlike pharmacy, who at the time had a risk ratio that approached zero. Bottom line is that pharmacy has been very good to me, though as always, YMMV.

 

[xiphoid2010]

The financial attractiveness of pharmacy will likely change in the coming decades with saturation and automation, but today it does offer unique monetary rewards. Personally, pharmacy is used as a gateway to financial independence through investing and business ownership, the timeline for which was the most expedited out of the multitude of career options.

Before starting college I had a list of about twenty possible career paths and I calculated their total earning potential over a fifteen year time horizon (accounting for training/education requirements) and pharmacy came out #1 adjusting for relative risk. Yes, opening one's own business out of hs could earn more, but the risk is very high unlike pharmacy, who at the time had a risk ratio that approached zero. Bottom line is that pharmacy has been very good to me, though as always, YMMV.

Man, there I thought I was as systematic and analytical as people get, then you go beat me by a mile. Bravo 👍

 

[Kansas Pharmer]

Also, business majors are all lame/bro's.

I kid.

well... not really.

Hey!!! I resemble that remark! Actually, you are mostly correct. I got my business degree because it was relatively easy and I could not decide what I wanted to be when I grew up.

Now that I have kinda grown up, I realize that was a huge waste of my time and money and I should have followed my original science based passions and started the pharm schooling years ago... 😡

 

[owlegrad]

Hey!!! I resemble that remark! Actually, you are mostly correct. I got my business degree because it was relatively easy and I could not decide what I wanted to be when I grew up.

Now that I have kinda grown up, I realize that was a huge waste of my time and money and I should have followed my original science based passions and started the pharm schooling years ago... 😡

I love your avatar though!

 

[Zoupa]

well OP is right that most middle managers average more than pharmacists. I think they average around 130-140k.

But pharmacy isn't stressful. Being part of a corporation, taking your work home with you (being on call, working at home to meet deadlines), working long hours, corporate politics, and worrying about promotions is more stressful than what pharmacists do.

Pharmacy is so attractive because it has pretty good pay with very good work life balance. But you won't be rich as a pharmacist unless you own a successful pharmacy or something.

 

[schamj01]

well OP is right that most middle managers average more than pharmacists. I think they average around 130-140k.

But pharmacy isn't stressful. Being part of a corporation, taking your work home with you (being on call, working at home to meet deadlines), working long hours, corporate politics, and worrying about promotions is more stressful than what pharmacists do.

Pharmacy is so attractive because it has pretty good pay with very good work life balance. But you won't be rich as a pharmacist unless you own a successful pharmacy or something.

I agree. In my area, (midwest) a typical pharmacist makes $115k working 40 hours a week. If he were to work overtime like a middle manager would...let's say 10 hours more per week (conservative, yes), he/she would be making about 160k (assuming ot is paid time and 1/2). Combined with the fact that a staff pharmacist generally does not have to work at home or be on call, I'd say that the pharmacist wins. IMO, of course.

I would much rather be able to put in my 40 per week and be able to enjoy the money I earn.

 

[xiphoid2010]

I would much rather be able to put in my 40 per week and be able to enjoy the money I earn.

This will also keep you doing the same thing until retirement without any advancement. Yet the same people who don't want to work hard are usually the ones who complaining about not getting raises or promotions. If someone do the same stuff day in and day out, why should he be paid any more?

 

[schamj01]

True, I agree with that statement. Perhaps what I should have said is I would rather not have to worry about work pretty much 24/7. I fully believe in working hard...I wouldn't be in pharmacy school if I believed otherwise.

 

[Zoupa]

True, I agree with that statement. Perhaps what I should have said is I would rather not have to worry about work pretty much 24/7. I fully believe in working hard...I wouldn't be in pharmacy school if I believed otherwise.

Agreed. I don't mind working hard, but I hate working long. They aren't the same thing. Family and hobbies are the most important things to me. I don't want to work my life away.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Where are you getting these numbers for middle management? My husband is middle management for a large corporation and makes NOWHERE near 130K. Also, he doesn't get paid overtime. Many managers do not. If he works 50 hours (which he routinely does), he doesn't make any extra.

 

[Zoupa]

Where are you getting these numbers for middle management? My husband is middle management for a large corporation and makes NOWHERE near 130K. Also, he doesn't get paid overtime. Many managers do not. If he works 50 hours (which he routinely does), he doesn't make any extra.

They're just averages. Sorry that your husband's on the bottom end of the curve.

You have to realize that the average middle manager is pretty old... somewhere in his 40s. I'm assuming that your husband isn't.

If you check out bls, managers (who are 'middle management'. Upper management are executive positions) average base salaries are 110-130k for most industries. Bonuses for middle managers is typically around 20%. Sometimes a lot less, sometimes a lot more. Where I live financial managers will average around 140k. Engineering managers are about the same. You're right about the 50 hour work weeks though.

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm#11-0000

Edit: I should also add that manager pay varies greatly between industry and corporations. I know an accounting manager who makes 230k at age 33. I also know an engineering manager who makes like 90k at about the same age. He works for a crap company. Even though it's a fortune 500.

 

[Kansas Pharmer]

You have to realize that the average middle manager is pretty old... somewhere in his 40s. I'm assuming that your husband isn't.

Again, I repeat: I resemble that remark. Pretty old is in the 40s? You do know that the average age for someone to settle on a career field is actually around 36? If you think 40s is old then what do you think about people retiring at age 62? Ancient? Knocking on death's door?

I will be graduating (hopefully) at age 42. I was in middle management shortly after I left active duty at about age 30. I wasnt making 100k+ but I also wasnt working for a Fortune 500 company. It was a family company that I absolutely loved working for, I just wanted something more.

The money is irrelevant (for the most part). You need to pick a career that you enjoy enough that the money is not in your top 3 reasons for the job. If you are only working for he money, you will never truly enjoy your job. But, if you look forward going to work everyday and you also happen make 100k, then it is just the icing on the cake.

 

[Zoupa]

Again, I repeat: I resemble that remark. Pretty old is in the 40s? You do know that the average age for someone to settle on a career field is actually around 36? If you think 40s is old then what do you think about people retiring at age 62? Ancient? Knocking on death's door?

I will be graduating (hopefully) at age 42. I was in middle management shortly after I left active duty at about age 30. I wasnt making 100k+ but I also wasnt working for a Fortune 500 company. It was a family company that I absolutely loved working for, I just wanted something more.

The money is irrelevant (for the most part). You need to pick a career that you enjoy enough that the money is not in your top 3 reasons for the job. If you are only working for he money, you will never truly enjoy your job. But, if you look forward going to work everyday and you also happen make 100k, then it is just the icing on the cake.

Being completely honest... if I didn't need money, I wouldn't even think about working.

So yeah, I work to pay the bills. So money is important to me. I don't think I'll enjoy any career, but there are some things that I'd like to have (autonomy, reasonable working hours) and avoid (stress).

I'm not sure why you'd pick pharmacy if you're main goal is career fulfillment. I can't imagine anyone being excited going to work at a pharmacy every day. Pretty monotonous stuff. But it has perks like low stress and pretty good pay.

I guess the age thing is just about perspective. I'm in my early 20s, so 40s is old to me.

 

[JonPrePharmD]

I think if you compared your average middle manager out there with your average pharmacist, the middle manager would likely accumulate more wealth than the pharmacist by the end of their career. Yet this idea seems to be lost on a lot of people who just look at the 6 figure starting salary and assume pharmacists are rich.

Wealthy and rich are two different things, so I have no idea what you're even saying. This thread is lol.

I'll make it simple...
[YOUTUBE]4m37JkkGjAY[/YOUTUBE]

Anyway, I think you're churning way too many ideas in your head...I think this was your main point here...

"When you factor in the opportunity cost, the high tuition cost, and debt do pharmacists really come out ahead?"

Answer: Yes. Even if you're still paying off your loans 10 years after school, you still come out ahead. People pay off loans differently and live differently than most, but you can live well beyond what is simply comfortable and afford to go on very nice vacations and still pay off loans. Even though I am not a Pharmacist, I work with them, and they are taking WAY too many damn vacation days this coming month!

"I don't understand the notion out there that pharmacists are really well compensated."

Why not? It's a 4 year professional program. I feel that they are decently compensated for the job the perform and I'm sure most agree. Have you worked in pharmacy before? Not saying it is easy by any means, but the only very difficult, strenuous, stressful events of the pharmacist's day that I work with is either patient complications mostly unrelated to the pharmacist's performance or insurance issues. They aren't actually having difficulty with what they learned, it's the crap on the side...unlike trying to prove someone is innocent of a murder and juggling how you'll handle a certain piece of evidence the state has against you in court (talk about a stressful job)....

I feel there are other jobs that are more stressful than a pharmacist (see ER doc/any surgeon or in your own example, a lawyer). In those cases, I don't care if they make more than me, I'd go to bed each night saying they've earned their $XX-XXXk more than me, doing something I'd never want to do, ever.

 

[LazyMooch]

Hey!!! I resemble that remark! Actually, you are mostly correct. I got my business degree because it was relatively easy and I could not decide what I wanted to be when I grew up.

Now that I have kinda grown up, I realize that was a huge waste of my time and money and I should have followed my original science based passions and started the pharm schooling years ago... 😡

I'm just jealous that you had to opportunity to learn utility skills like investing and management strategies. While I'm really good at the sciences, I find them boring and would prefer to learn about economics and business. However, the salaries in healthcare are just too high and too easily attainable compared to working up the corporate ladder.

I did just get Day Trading for Dummies at Borders though... $10, due to the fact that they're going out of business...

 

[All4MyDaughter]

They're just averages. Sorry that your husband's on the bottom end of the curve.

You have to realize that the average middle manager is pretty old... somewhere in his 40s. I'm assuming that your husband isn't.

If you check out bls, managers (who are 'middle management'. Upper management are executive positions) average base salaries are 110-130k for most industries. Bonuses for middle managers is typically around 20%. Sometimes a lot less, sometimes a lot more. Where I live financial managers will average around 140k. Engineering managers are about the same. You're right about the 50 hour work weeks though.

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm#11-0000

Edit: I should also add that manager pay varies greatly between industry and corporations. I know an accounting manager who makes 230k at age 33. I also know an engineering manager who makes like 90k at about the same age. He works for a crap company. Even though it's a fortune 500.

LOL to this post. 40's is not "pretty old." And yes, we're much closer to our 40's than our 20's. My husband is pretty advanced in his career, as are most of our friends. I was also in management, before I decided to become a pharmacist.

Anyway, I don't think the numbers you posted match your assertions.

From your link: for all management occupations (including executives) the average salary is $105,440. That's a lot less than the 110 -130 average base you're claiming is earned by "most." In fact, out of all of the management occupations listed, only 8 have salaries in over 110K. The other 20+ management occupations have average salaries < 110K reported.

The two occupations on that list that most closely match what my husband does are Transportation, Storage, and Distribution Managers ($86,630) and Training and Development Managers ($95,800). So based on how long he's been in the field (15+ years) and adjusting for regional differences, I'd say that's about right.

And 20% bonus? I don't think so. Perhaps in some fields, but in other industries there is no bonus structure at all. I was in educational/non-profit management (executive level) and didn't get bonuses. My husband receives a standard "Christmas" bonus of one half month's salary every year and a variable stock bonus based on company performance. The target stock bonus is 15% of gross annual salary but that hasn't happened in several years. The economy is bad.

 

[Kansas Pharmer]

I'm not sure why you'd pick pharmacy if you're main goal is career fulfillment. I can't imagine anyone being excited going to work at a pharmacy every day. Pretty monotonous stuff. But it has perks like low stress and pretty good pay.

But, working retail is not anywhere near the limit of the profession. You have to look at the broader picture. In fact, I abhor retail so I going to (again hopefully) try a different career path after I get my Rph.

 

[Zoupa]

LOL to this post. 40's is not "pretty old." And yes, we're much closer to our 40's than our 20's. My husband is pretty advanced in his career, as are most of our friends. I was also in management, before I decided to become a pharmacist.

Anyway, I don't think the numbers you posted match your assertions.

From your link: for all management occupations (including executives) the average salary is $105,440. That's a lot less than the 110 -130 average base you're claiming is earned by "most." In fact, out of all of the management occupations listed, only 8 have salaries in over 110K. The other 20+ management occupations have average salaries < 110K reported.

The two occupations on that list that most closely match what my husband does are Transportation, Storage, and Distribution Managers ($86,630) and Training and Development Managers ($95,800). So based on how long he's been in the field (15+ years) and adjusting for regional differences, I'd say that's about right.

And 20% bonus? I don't think so. Perhaps in some fields, but in other industries there is no bonus structure at all. I was in educational/non-profit management (executive level) and didn't get bonuses. My husband receives a standard "Christmas" bonus of one half month's salary every year and a variable stock bonus based on company performance. The target stock bonus is 15% of gross annual salary but that hasn't happened in several years. The economy is bad.

I was only considering the professional fields. And I left out things like "education administrator" who really aren't what most people consider middle management. And stuff like transportation/distribution management and whatever aren't really professions either. That's why all of those obscure fields that no one's ever heard of are poorly paid.

If you take the operations, marketing, financial, purchasing, sales, CIS, HR, engineering, health services, and natural science managers (basically, all of the traditional professional management fields on there. Fields that potential pharmacists might consider pursuing), the average base comes out to 115k. I never said average was 110-130, I just said that was roughly the range. Most are closer to 110 than 130. A typical bonus is definitely around 20% in most of these fields, which would put the average above 135k. Even if the bonus is only 10% (which is very small for a manager), that still almost comes out to 130k.

I just don't see the point in comparing obscure pseudo-professional fields like 'gaming managers' and 'lodging managers' to pharmacy. So that's why I never looked at the total average. It makes more sense to compare it to things like finance, engineering, marketing, etc. Take engineering managers for instance. On that list they average 126k base. Over here they average 20-30% bonus if they work for a good company. That's an average of about 150k total. And I know numerous engineering managers who make 160k+ in their 40s. Many of whom work about 40 hours per week.

Lastly, I've seen similar stats quoted for those industries elsewhere. Look up earning potential for various types of managers on google. Make sure you find one's that quote total compensation and not just base. They aren't very hard to find.

For whatever reason you guys seem to think 100k or even 130k is a lot of money. It isn't... Ok, maybe your husband and friends don't make much. That doesn't mean that they represent the average. I know what the average income is for all people, but for a professional, 100k isn't a lot. Like I said, pharmacists make decent money. But you can easily make as much or more in other fields.

 

[Quiksilver]

I think the fact that 100k comes right after graduation has only been briefly mentioned in this thread. Yes, there are people who bring in more $$$ in a year but how many will earn it throughout their careerss over an extended time like a pharmacist would?

 

[Zoupa]

I think the fact that 100k comes right after graduation has only been briefly mentioned in this thread. Yes, there are people who bring in more $$$ in a year but how many will earn it throughout their careerss over an extended time like a pharmacist would?

Yeah that's a good point. And money earned now is worth more than money earned later. You also have to factor in the 2+ years of opportunity cost (pharmacy takes longer than a 4 year degree) and more expensive tuition, though. So in that sense the head start is probably a wash. I make 80k first year out and I'll cross 100k in a few years, but I earn quite a bit more than your average entry level engineer since I work in the oil and gas industry.

Either way, the difference in income between a pharmacist and middle manager probably won't be enough to justify choosing either career path. Given the choice, I'd probably choose pharmacist just for the defined hours and not taking anything home. I don't plan to enter middle management. I'm even still loosely considering pharmacy... since I want a simple/lax life. That's why I'm posting here. I'm also considering dentistry.

 

[Rx MPLS]

I'm just jealous that you had to opportunity to learn utility skills like investing and management strategies. While I'm really good at the sciences, I find them boring and would prefer to learn about economics and business. However, the salaries in healthcare are just too high and too easily attainable compared to working up the corporate ladder.

I did just get Day Trading for Dummies at Borders though... $10, due to the fact that they're going out of business...

Brief note, as I think I've seen you mention this before. Most business classes don't focus on investing or management strategy. Much is learned on your own/through experience. If you'd like to see a few books that touch on these subjects, you might check out The Neatest Little Guide to Stock Market Investing (Kelly), Feed your Eagles (Newton), and Good to Great (Collins). These three books will probably teach you more practical information than you'd usually learn in undergrad business school and possibly help you learn to think like a manager or investor. 🙂

 

[PharmDstudent]

Between both of my jobs, I get paid roughly $67/hour. I work 72 hours on nights at one job and get paid for 80 hours (plus paid holidays, vacation, and a small bonus), and I work roughly 4 hours while on-call at another job and get paid for 9.5 hours. Not including any overtime or extra shifts, that's $133,000 per year for 38 hours of work per week.

... and Tony the Tiger and I thinks that's GREEEEEAAAAAAT!

 

[LazyMooch]

Brief note, as I think I've seen you mention this before. Most business classes don't focus on investing or management strategy. Much is learned on your own/through experience. If you'd like to see a few books that touch on these subjects, you might check out The Neatest Little Guide to Stock Market Investing (Kelly), Feed your Eagles (Newton), and Good to Great (Collins). These three books will probably teach you more practical information than you'd usually learn in undergrad business school and possibly help you learn to think like a manager or investor. 🙂

You are the man. or woman. Whichever.

I definitely want to beef up my knowledge on money handling. I just have trouble because most books assume a decent amount of prior knowledge, of which I have little. One of my friends has a fake stock portfolio he is using to educate himself by following the market, making decisions with pseudo money and analyzing the results. I've been thinking about trying that out.

However, I also wish to learn about all types of investing, rather than just stocks. The little I know about 401K's, Roths, etc. is laughable.

Do you or anyone know of any sites or books that assume you have no background?

Thanks for the help/suggestions 👍

 

[Rx MPLS]

You are the man. or woman. Whichever.

I definitely want to beef up my knowledge on money handling. I just have trouble because most books assume a decent amount of prior knowledge, of which I have little. One of my friends has a fake stock portfolio he is using to educate himself by following the market, making decisions with pseudo money and analyzing the results. I've been thinking about trying that out.

However, I also wish to learn about all types of investing, rather than just stocks. The little I know about 401K's, Roths, etc. is laughable.

Do you or anyone know of any sites or books that assume you have no background?

Thanks for the help/suggestions 👍

I do the same thing with the fake stock portfolio. It's quite an education!

I don't know much about 401ks or Roths myself, but there are a number of financial literacy books on Amazon. Suze Orman books are usually a good read, too. I listen to Marketplace Money and Marketplace on the radio or as a podcast quite a bit as well. Robert Kiyosaki is worth a read as well, though I've heard he's a bit of a fraud. He's worth being familiar with though as many people have read his book and will try to convince you his word is the Gospel of Money.

You might browse the library for books on the subject to see which ones best fit your needs. The good ones are worth buying as they can serve as references for a long time...

One last thing I think everybody on this board should probably read: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/27/y...-do-no-harm.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=doctors&st=cse (aimed at medical doctors, promoting more financial literacy in their ranks).

 

[ttopping]

Yeah that's a good point. And money earned now is worth more than money earned later. You also have to factor in the 2+ years of opportunity cost (pharmacy takes longer than a 4 year degree) and more expensive tuition, though. So in that sense the head start is probably a wash. I make 80k first year out and I'll cross 100k in a few years, but I earn quite a bit more than your average entry level engineer since I work in the oil and gas industry.

Either way, the difference in income between a pharmacist and middle manager probably won't be enough to justify choosing either career path. Given the choice, I'd probably choose pharmacist just for the defined hours and not taking anything home. I don't plan to enter middle management. I'm even still loosely considering pharmacy... since I want a simple/lax life. That's why I'm posting here. I'm also considering dentistry.

It depends on where you go to school. Taking an extra 2 years at state school pricing is barely a years tuition at private universities. In that case you've barely lost anything. Then there are those that go through accelerated programs who come out even quicker. I can definitely see your argument if someone has done a 4 + 4 path or pays private tuition / out of state costs however. Even so, there are very few options that pay ~100k immediately post-grad with so much career versatility after an average of 6 years.

 

[Kansas Pharmer]

Brief note, as I think I've seen you mention this before. Most business classes don't focus on investing or management strategy. Much is learned on your own/through experience. If you'd like to see a few books that touch on these subjects, you might check out The Neatest Little Guide to Stock Market Investing (Kelly), Feed your Eagles (Newton), and Good to Great (Collins). These three books will probably teach you more practical information than you'd usually learn in undergrad business school and possibly help you learn to think like a manager or investor. 🙂

Actually, I majored in management but that is the human/corporation kind. You are correct that there are only basic classes for investment and management of funds. The way I learned was reading, reading, making a couple investing mistakes and then reading some more. Unfortunately, that is the best way to learn the ropes. I make a decent return on my money after 15 years of learning but I still have a lot of room for improvement.

 

[Kansas Pharmer]

I love your avatar though!

THANKS!!! But, I am not sure if that is a good thing, you being an owl and all... 😕

Actually it comes from the saying "super secret squirrel" if you have ever heard that before.

 

[Ackj]

THANKS!!! But, I am not sure if that is a good thing, you being an owl and all... 😕

Actually it comes from the saying "super secret squirrel" if you have ever heard that before.

 

[Pharmacy Kid]

Ain't about the cha-ching, cha-ching
Ain't about the ba-bling, ba-bling

 

[Kansas Pharmer]

Yes, that is Secret Squirrel and Moroccan Mole. One of my favorite cartoons but not exactly what I was referring to. I do like watching that cartoon though

Actually, "super" secret squirrel is a colloquial military term.

 

[owlegrad]

THANKS!!! But, I am not sure if that is a good thing, you being an owl and all... 😕

Actually it comes from the saying "super secret squirrel" if you have ever heard that before.

All I will say is, you have to sleep sometime...


And it's owle, don't worry about it though, common mistake.

 

[gambit78]

I'm reminded of my former coworker who has practiced pharmacy for over 30yrs...he is now shocked at how high the incomes are for pharmacists these days. I heard about phlebotomists making so little despite having to cut open veins and draw blood. I think this is scarier more difficult than having to deal with paperwork getting reimbursed by Medicaid.

Oh, and the story about how an engineer met a pharmacist at a dating service site and then he (the engineer) absolutely freaked out at how much the pharmacist made and stopped contacting her. That pharmacist went onto to marry another pharmacist. Teehee.

 

[xtsukiyox]

I was only considering the professional fields. And I left out things like "education administrator" who really aren't what most people consider middle management. And stuff like transportation/distribution management and whatever aren't really professions either. That's why all of those obscure fields that no one's ever heard of are poorly paid.

Are you serious? I'm so glad All4MyDaughter is responding to you - patience of a saint. You are ridiculous!

Shockingly false. I am at a loss for words. No, most people will not exceed a pharmacist's salary within their lifetime. Do some people? Of course. But to think that most people will...never mind.

It's not about becoming rich, it's about being guaranteed a spot in the upper middle class. [...] Those of us that grew up poor or middle class see the salary of a pharmacist as a major leap.

QFT.

First generation college student - my mom has some college but never finished, my dad went to trade school & has worked the same trade his whole life. My dad makes a comfortable living over 30+ years and has worked up into management. I will make quite a bit more than him. If I were to try to scale the same trade? Not gonna happen. The traditional wisdom that the union / company pension will take care of you has disappeared before his eyes and never even existed for me. My mom's trade? I make almost the same amount as her now, just from working my way up a company for 7 years.

It's amazing to me how many kids see their parents making $100k+ and assume it's the norm / not that great. The average US household salary is somewhere in the $70k range, last I checked.

 

[xtsukiyox]

Dammit, I just fed the troll, didn't I?

 

[owlegrad]

Dammit, I just fed the troll, didn't I?

No worries, it happens to the best of us. 😉

 

[Rxboy3]

the money is pretty good now.. but you have to consider what will happen in the future.. no one can guarantee that the salary is goin to always be 100k so for those who are goin to this field, they better love it or else they're in for a harsh reality. especially if the salaries go down.

 

[Zoupa]

Are you serious? I'm so glad All4MyDaughter is responding to you - patience of a saint. You are ridiculous!

Maybe you should learn the definition of a profession before you call me out. Professions are self regulated. For example, lawyers, doctors, engineers, nurses, financial analysts, accountants, teachers, pharmacists, etc. are professionals. Transportation management is not. It's some obscure field that people fall into after obtaining unrelated degrees and isn't what I was intending to compare to pharmacy when I initially posted in this thread.

 

[hydromorphone]

You are the man. or woman. Whichever.

I definitely want to beef up my knowledge on money handling. I just have trouble because most books assume a decent amount of prior knowledge, of which I have little. One of my friends has a fake stock portfolio he is using to educate himself by following the market, making decisions with pseudo money and analyzing the results. I've been thinking about trying that out.

However, I also wish to learn about all types of investing, rather than just stocks. The little I know about 401K's, Roths, etc. is laughable.

Do you or anyone know of any sites or books that assume you have no background?

Thanks for the help/suggestions 👍

From my experience investing student loans into the stock market, you can still make a quick buck... but you need a lot of capital to bring a decent return in this bear market. IRA's and retirement portfolios are okay for the lazy investor, but the real returns these days are in overseas investment where markets have more liquidity and small business franchises stateside that have a high startup costs and relatively high risk. 🙁

 

[Zoupa]

First generation college student - my mom has some college but never finished, my dad went to trade school & has worked the same trade his whole life. My dad makes a comfortable living over 30+ years and has worked up into management. I will make quite a bit more than him. If I were to try to scale the same trade? Not gonna happen. The traditional wisdom that the union / company pension will take care of you has disappeared before his eyes and never even existed for me. My mom's trade? I make almost the same amount as her now, just from working my way up a company for 7 years.

It's amazing to me how many kids see their parents making $100k+ and assume it's the norm / not that great. The average US household salary is somewhere in the $70k range, last I checked.

Police officers can easily make 100k in their 20s. So can trades guys if they work in the right places. I don't care what the "average" american makes. The average american doesn't even have a solid career. 100k for a professional isn't much. My sister made 80k in her first year as a nurse. I'm making 80k in my first year as an engineer. I know engineering grads starting at 100k this year working for the oil majors (exxon, bp, etc.). And unlike pharmacists, they have a lot of upward potential. A pharmacist's earning potential isn't much better than those in many other fields. Sorry. You guys seem very defensive about this. Almost as if it's the only reason you entered the field.

Having said that, like i said, pharmacy is a great career considering the good pay with low stress, defined hours, etc.

 

[xtsukiyox]

Edited to remove. I realized how much I was ranting simply because I was baited by a troll, and it bothered me. Zoupa is not going to stop being arrogant or naive due to a post on a board on the interwebz. I guess it bothers me most that people actually look down with this much disdain on the 80+% of the rest of us who work hard just to maintain, much less climb out of upper lower / lower middle class.

Also - I reiterate - it's fun to make up numbers.

 

[xtsukiyox]

You know what? When I share something of myself, and a stuck-up rich kid decides to **** on my father's career - 30 years of honest work - I should stop reading the thread.

Troll 1 - Me 0