Corpseman

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Honestly I don't understand, man. Truth is you guys are still making $100k+ a year, and no pharmacist has failed to find jobs within a year of graduation. But you guys are all like doom and gloom. Exaggerated much ?
Full time jobs?
 

Lnsean

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Honestly I don't understand, man. Truth is you guys are still making $100k+ a year, and no pharmacist has failed to find jobs within a year of graduation. But you guys are all like doom and gloom. Exaggerated much ?
Nah...a bunch of real practicing pharmacists posting current market conditions is taken for "exaggeration" but you would be fine if it was written in some article with ambiguous sources and such.
 
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Sho

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I didn't read any other articles. I would like to believe these posts on here BUT, salary still remains high (>$50 an hour) as reported in the salary thread, and also as reported on here, people didn't spend much time landing jobs after graduation. So how can you guys say it's "doom and gloom"?
 

fewaopi

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Hmm well I actually know people who haven't found work after more than 1 year after graduation and some are still looking. I know some who didn't get full time work.

And I know some who don't make >$50/hr. (aka moi).

I know people who spent several months looking for work after graduation (usually less than a year but several months sometimes)

We all know places where people don't get raises for years. Luckily (or unlucky?) there isn't much inflation these days.

It's not the apocalypse but there are a lot of driving forces slowly pushing towards that direction that more and more are now seeing with no forces trying to reverse the trend. So there's a lot of concern among new grads looking for work and older pharmacists trying to hang on.

Area and willingness matters, a lot. And desperation to pay down student loans.
 
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BMBiology

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What is wrong with making $50 an hour and working just 20 hours a week? That is still more than $50 k a year. In the meantime, you can follow your passion like making Youtube videos and becoming a Youtube celebrity!

Student loans? Get on PAYE and let the government forgive your loans.

Health insurance? ever heard of Obamacare?

Retirement? Social security got your back.

Ask youself this - if it is so bad then why is CVS still giving raises? Big raises, too. So yeah, follow your passion. LOL
 

wagrxm2000

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Hmm well I actually know people who haven't found work after more than 1 year after graduation and some are still looking. I know some who didn't get full time work.

And I know some who don't make >$50/hr. (aka moi).

I know people who spent several months looking for work after graduation (usually less than a year but several months sometimes)

We all know places where people don't get raises for years. Luckily (or unlucky?) there isn't much inflation these days.

It's not the apocalypse but there are a lot of driving forces slowly pushing towards that direction that more and more are now seeing with no forces trying to reverse the trend. So there's a lot of concern among new grads looking for work and older pharmacists trying to hang on.

Area and willingness matters, a lot. And desperation to pay down student loans.
If it takes you a year to find a job then you are either a bad candidate or refuse to move. It's not going to kill someone to live in a lesser area for awhile until an opportunity presents itself.
 
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BMBiology

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If it takes you a year to find a job then you are either a bad candidate or refuse to move. It's not going to kill someone to live in a lesser area for awhile until an opportunity presents itself.
And I totally agree. What is wrong with spending your prime years in school then the next 3 years living in Kentucky? That is only a 2 hour flight to NYC.
 
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Honestly I don't understand, man. Truth is you guys are still making $100k+ a year, and no pharmacist has failed to find jobs within a year of graduation. But you guys are all like doom and gloom. Exaggerated much ?
"$100K/year" upon graduation is great if you can maintain and keep your job until the retirement age of 65. In retail, this is getting harder and harder with pharmacists forced to stay on their feet longer and longer. Many of my friends in this sector have complained about chronic lower back pain and the most of them do their best to keep in good shape with optimal eating and exercising whenever they can. Other complaints including the rising wave of graduates desperate to pay off loans. This encourages employers to hire hungrier and younger grads at a lower price than experienced pharmacists that then get replaced and handed the pink slip for a bogus, yet political ploy to meet budget standings.

Hospitals are not hiring as many new pharmacists as before. In hospital pharmacy, you are mainly doing chart reviews as opposed to mainly dispensing in retail. Yes, you do have MTM/counseling in hospital, but it depends on the size of the hospital and the rest of the staff. Major academic hospitals with a medical/nursing/PA school attached - FORGET IT! Not much use for a clinical pharmacist as nursing/PAs do much of the things that clinical pharmacists do (medication reconciliation, counseling and chart reviews to name a few examples).
 

fewaopi

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Part observation, part assumption, but the ones who find work tend to have student loans. I imagine it's more borne out of desperation and willingness to do w/e. the ones that have a lot of trouble finding work are usually not willing to move, or don't have as much debt or any debt so there's less motivation to get out and work.

loans/debt are sort of a good kicker for people to get out and work.
 

pezdispenser

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I think the complaints are just coming from people with an entitled attitude. Wah! I can't get a job in SF or NYC as a new grad with no experience! Wah! I'm not getting unlimited time and a half OT! Wah! I need the government to forgive all my loans!

The real world is of course much tougher, and when the going gets tough, the tough get going. So the people who have some grit, and know how to put their head down, work hard and make sacrifices will still become successful.
 

Chriskahn

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The "harsh conditions" of working in retail is funny to me. As a person that has been doing manual labor for minimum wage my entire working life before starting pharmacy, standing for 10 hours straight on a cushy floor mat and making $50+ per hour is a dream. I interned this summer and felt strange not sweating, being tired, or having to clean something while working a 10 hour day. I finished my work day without smelling weird. It was amazing.
 

StallionRx

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The "harsh conditions" of working in retail is funny to me. As a person that has been doing manual labor for minimum wage my entire working life before starting pharmacy, standing for 10 hours straight on a cushy floor mat and making $50+ per hour is a dream. I interned this summer and felt strange not sweating, being tired, or having to clean something while working a 10 hour day. I finished my work day without smelling weird. It was amazing.
Keep that mind set.

Ive been a pharmacist for roughly 8 years and do construction on my days off. Try mixing cement in 90* weather, carrying shingle bundles up on ladders, hanging drywall, etc. Im sure you get the point.

Most people dont realize how good they have it to stand behind a computer and check for a couple hours while cranking out 6 figures on the regular.
 

BMBiology

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We have it good. You just don't know how good it is until you had experienced the "real world".

I remember I used to work as this pressure cooker. The place was hot, crowded and the fact that my coworkers have hippo hips didn't help either. I would get the same question over and over again. "Where is the restroom key?", a lady would ask. A few minutes later, another lady would ask, "Can you help me locate the restroom key?". I had to stop what I am doing and hunt down this precious key. The phones would go off like firecrackers and the line of people would snake around the building waiting for me to serve their needs. They were in the hurry. They were anxious and they wanted my full attention.
I was a one man working machine.

Man, those were the days. Thank god I got out of there.
 

christy101

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I guess it really depends on what you land with and where you are and the place you are working at. I think in comparison with other jobs is not bad etc. you wont suffer that much financially if you work just part time if you manage your money well. but i guess a lot of the complains is with retail. For me, i took a few month and my loans started kicking in to find a job after graduation and when i did, i was working several part time positions, a day here and day there, per diem for few pharmacies that are willing to take new graduates with little experience. i saw it as being a floater haha. i dont mind doing retail but as i started working i realized independent retail in saturated areas is really suffering, a lot of competition between pharmacies and making you put into situations you don't want to as pharmacist and your boss eyeballing the business volume that to be honest is really not in your control but then you seem to have to take the blame, if anyone understands what i mean, and trying to beat out your competitor pharmacy next door or across the block. Its not all doom and gloom but just to me in independent retail at least in my area i dont see the growth aspects or security. Im thinking of trying to get with a chain, but of course hear a lot of complains about them from friends that work chain but i guess it really depends on what your experience is with in your work. I guess in comparison i rather want to try working for a chain with a little more security and less worry that your pharmacy may run out of business or make you do things you dont want and you lose that job and have nothing.
 

stoichiometrist

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The $100k/year becomes $70-80k when you take into consideration student loans which are often over $200k. That adjusted salary becomes even less when you factor in the opportunity cost of 4 years of school.

The job market is only going to get worse especially in California as a wave of 4 pharmacy schools graduate their first class in 2018.
 
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W19

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Honestly I don't understand, man. Truth is you guys are still making $100k+ a year, and no pharmacist has failed to find jobs within a year of graduation. But you guys are all like doom and gloom. Exaggerated much ?
The doom and gloom is on the EM forum as well even if they make >400k/year for 12-12hr shifts per month...
 

W19

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Keep that mind set.

Ive been a pharmacist for roughly 8 years and do construction on my days off. Try mixing cement in 90* weather, carrying shingle bundles up on ladders, hanging drywall, etc. Im sure you get the point.

Most people dont realize how good they have it to stand behind a computer and check for a couple hours while cranking out 6 figures on the regular.
We are Americans... We invented drive thru for God sake!
 

stoichiometrist

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I see a lot of software engineers on Reddit talk about how great their profession is doing, how much money they're making, how easy it is to find a job, etc.
 

Maruko

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I see a lot of software engineers on Reddit talk about how great their profession is doing, how much money they're making, how easy it is to find a job, etc.
as I said in another thread, not all software engineers make $90k out of the bat. in fact, very few do. their typical salary is $50-70k. and not even all of them get hired. you have to be a genius and LUCKY to work for Google, Yahoo, Twitter, etc. where you earn big.
 
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pillpharmer14

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There is so much BS in this thread that I don't even know where to start. What's with all the pre-med people knowing more about the pharmacy outlook than the actual pharmacists?

Honestly I don't understand, man. Truth is you guys are still making $100k+ a year, and no pharmacist has failed to find jobs within a year of graduation. But you guys are all like doom and gloom. Exaggerated much ?
There are jobs now, but as someone in this thread and countless others has already pointed out, there are multiple driving factors that are moving the market towards a surplus. Pharmacists in this forum are simply expressing concerns for the FUTURE because the job market will affect all of us.

The "harsh conditions" of working in retail is funny to me. As a person that has been doing manual labor for minimum wage my entire working life before starting pharmacy, standing for 10 hours straight on a cushy floor mat and making $50+ per hour is a dream. I interned this summer and felt strange not sweating, being tired, or having to clean something while working a 10 hour day. I finished my work day without smelling weird. It was amazing.
Pharmacists are not complaining that the work in retail is too hard for what they are paid. Retail sucks due to the liability, having to trust your McDonald's caliber technicians to not make mistakes, and being legally responsible for supervising them when you can barely keep up with your own work is a terrible feeling. The hourly rate is high, but if it costs you your license then your ability to make money is gone.

Before bashing pharmacists about how they complain, you should consider the job that we are being asked to do. Some of us consider ourselves healthcare professionals and don't like the idea of harming patients (potentially) to bring in that big salary.
 

Deja

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why are people comparing pharmacist to manual labor? you go through 4 years of pharmacy school for a reason... I shouldn't even have to explain how ridiculous it is to even mentioning these 2 jobs in the same sentence

and $50 an hour is alot? comparing to some other professional programs, no its not... again its all relative, sure it's alot if you are comparing it to someone with an undergrad degree.... also in SF after your loan payment (which alot ppl have 200k loans) and tax, you won't even be able to find a decent apt, would have to get roommates far away from the city... idk about you, but the idea of having to live with a roommate when you are 30 yrs old and supposedly have a professional degree irks me

P.S. I think my salary is decent/good and my work is Okay too... just don't like the comparison thats been made
 
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BidingMyTime

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and $50 an hour is alot? comparing to some other professional programs, no its not... again its all relative, sure it's alot if you are comparing it to someone with an undergrad degree....
Extremely few people make $50/hour, even those with advanced degrees. And there are even fewer degrees that virtually guarantee making $50/hour outside of pharmacy. Hearing pharmacists complain is like hearing Marie Antoinette asking why the peasants don't eat cake. The economy sucks, and there are a lot of very educated people in the "good" fields, engineering, computers, etc. who can't find jobs. There are lots of people who have work 10 - 12 hour days when they do find their $75,000 a year job. Yes, there are certainly valid concerns that pharmacists bring up, but they aren't bringing up problems that many other educated professionals don't also have to deal with.
 
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Sho

Sho

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What's the percentage of unemployed pharmacists after 1 year post-graduation?

Doctors have to supervise nurses, PA and techs, and can lose license for their mistake, too.
 

wagrxm2000

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What's the percentage of unemployed pharmacists after 1 year post-graduation?

Doctors have to supervise nurses, PA and techs, and can lose license for their mistake, too.
Can you give examples about nurses, I guess I didn't know that
 

pillpharmer14

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What's the percentage of unemployed pharmacists after 1 year post-graduation?

Doctors have to supervise nurses, PA and techs, and can lose license for their mistake, too.
Once again, do not comment on things you don't understand. Nearly every task that a pharmacy technician is legally allowed to perform comes with the qualification "under the direct supervision of a pharmacist". Correct me if I'm wrong, but nurses do not require your "direct supervision" under law for the majority of the tasks they perform.

Nurses and PAs have college degrees, pharmacy technicians get a certification with no schooling required. They have no medical training and have to pass a simple math test to get certified. They make barely better than minimum wage so I would expect your nurses and PAs to have a little more pride in their work seeing as how their lively-hood is on the line. I have had technicians intentionally try to dispense room temp insulin that was accidentally left out because "no one will know". You're talking about professionals versus people who run a cash register.
 

Digsbe

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why are people comparing pharmacist to manual labor? you go through 4 years of pharmacy school for a reason... I shouldn't even have to explain how ridiculous it is to even mentioning these 2 jobs in the same sentence

and $50 an hour is alot? comparing to some other professional programs, no its not... again its all relative, sure it's alot if you are comparing it to someone with an undergrad degree.... also in SF after your loan payment (which alot ppl have 200k loans) and tax, you won't even be able to find a decent apt, would have to get roommates far away from the city... idk about you, but the idea of having to live with a roommate when you are 30 yrs old and supposedly have a professional degree irks me

P.S. I think my salary is decent/good and my work is Okay too... just don't like the comparison thats been made
Honestly when it comes to professional degrees pharmacists still make more than most. On average you'll make more than a veterinarian, chiropractor, physical therapist, nurse practitioners, PAs, audiologists, etc. Although many others mentioned don't require 4 year doctorate (Vets do, but the others is 2-3 years for a masters or doctorate). Really the only professional programs I can think of that may make more are MD/DO, DDS/DMD, a CRNA and maybe a JD if they build themselves up to be very successful since they have a high earning potential (with PharmD's still making more than the average JD).

I can agree with comparing pharmacy to manual labor though, the point of getting a 4 year doctorate is to not work that type of job.
 
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NateRobinson

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It's because the majority of people here are ****ing bitches. Like SCIENCE. OH BOO HOO, WOE IS ME. I HAVE TO VERIFY THINGS WITHIN 15 MINUTES.

People like SCIENCE will never, ever, ever be happy. They're just perpetually angry. CVS could give his store 400 hours of tech help a week, constant overlap, they could get rid of mycustomer experience, and he would probably come on here and complain that the company expects him, and not the front store to close the pharmacy and put the gate down.
 

pillpharmer14

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It's because the majority of people here are ****ing bitches. Like SCIENCE. OH BOO HOO, WOE IS ME. I HAVE TO VERIFY THINGS WITHIN 15 MINUTES.

People like SCIENCE will never, ever, ever be happy. They're just perpetually angry. CVS could give his store 400 hours of tech help a week, constant overlap, they could get rid of mycustomer experience, and he would probably come on here and complain that the company expects him, and not the front store to close the pharmacy and put the gate down.
Says the guy who uses Caps Lock to drive his points home.
 

Deja

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Extremely few people make $50/hour, even those with advanced degrees. And there are even fewer degrees that virtually guarantee making $50/hour outside of pharmacy. Hearing pharmacists complain is like hearing Marie Antoinette asking why the peasants don't eat cake. The economy sucks, and there are a lot of very educated people in the "good" fields, engineering, computers, etc. who can't find jobs. There are lots of people who have work 10 - 12 hour days when they do find their $75,000 a year job. Yes, there are certainly valid concerns that pharmacists bring up, but they aren't bringing up problems that many other educated professionals don't also have to deal with.
again huge difference between engineer, computers and other "good" fields vs pharmacy, the ones you mentioned are all undergrad degrees... computer engineers in sf makes bank too

also when i said other professionals, I was more or less comparing other people in the medical fields that went through a 4 year program
 

W19

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again huge difference between engineer, computers and other "good" fields vs pharmacy, the ones you mentioned are all undergrad degrees... computer engineers in sf makes bank too

also when i said other professionals, I was more or less comparing other people in the medical fields that went through a 4 year program
If you are making 120k/year, you're in the the top 5% in the US in term of salary... There are other professionals (DVM, DPT, AuD etc...) that do not make that much... One can argue that pharmacy school is 6 years since I know some people that do it in 6 years. These issues that people talk about here are not unique to pharmacy... Ask a physician who has to deal with a bunch of BS; ask a dentist who has to become salesman to stay afloat. The list goes on and on. I have a few friends who are pharmacists, and one thing I have noticed is that the ones that work for CVS/Walgreens do not speak well about their job, but the ones that work for other retails and hospital think the job is not that bad. Of course things can always be better!
 

StallionRx

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If you are making 120k/year, you're in the the top 5% in the US in term of salary... There are other professionals (DVM, DPT, AuD etc...) that do not make that much... One can argue that pharmacy school is 6 years since I know some people that do it in 6 years. These issues that people talk about here are not unique to pharmacy... Ask a physician who has to deal with a bunch of BS; ask a dentist who has to become salesman to stay afloat. The list goes on and on. I have a few friends who are pharmacists, and one thing I have noticed is that the ones that work for CVS/Walgreens do not speak well about their job, but the ones that work for other retails and hospital think the job is not that bad. Of course things can always be better!
This.

Concerns about liablity? Seriously? Were all concerned about liability, but this is what you signed up for. Doctors, nurses, pharmacists, dentists. Were all liable and any one of us is vulnerable to getting sued.

I agree the retail environment can be very tough, but mistakes can happen in crazy busy stores or dead ones. The most memorable mistake I ever made was during a blizzard where I filled about 60 rxs during a 8 hour shift.

Also....Ive seen salaries mentioned at 100k, 120k? Ive never made that low ever in my career. Even the local hospital that is known to be considerably less offered me roughly 120k back 7+ years ago.

I know MANY pharmacists that work for the big retail chains with salaries +/- 150k....and some +/- 200k with considerable OT and bonus.
 
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radio frequency

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This.

Concerns about liablity? Seriously? Were all concerned about liability, but this is what you signed up for. Doctors, nurses, pharmacists, dentists. Were all liable and any one of us is vulnerable to getting sued.

I agree the retail environment can be very tough, but mistakes can happen in crazy busy stores or dead ones. The most memorable mistake I ever made was during a blizzard where I filled about 60 rxs during a 8 hour shift.

Also....Ive seen salaries mentioned at 100k, 120k? Ive never made that low ever in my career. Even the local hospital that is known to be considerably less offered me roughly 120k back 7+ years ago.

I know MANY pharmacists that work for the big retail chains with salaries +/- 150k....and some +/- 200k with considerable OT and bonus.
You've never seen $120k salary?? Seriously? That's the median. Look it up.
 

gwarm01

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I need to move to where hospitals are starting pharmacists at 120k. Sub-100k base is very common in the SE.
 
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Momus

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I need to move to where hospitals are starting pharmacists at 120k. Sub-100k base is very common in the SE.
Another statement out of context, you can move to $150k base with $3000/mo for 1 bedroom rent + everything else from gas and entertainment being at least 1.5-2X the cost where you are now, you definitely can move if you are jealous of those pharmacists.
 

gwarm01

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Another statement out of context, you can move to $150k base with $3000/mo for 1 bedroom rent + everything else from gas and entertainment being at least 1.5-2X the cost where you are now, you definitely can move if you are jealous of those pharmacists.
It's not as clear as that. I live in the Miami area, where a decent two bedroom apartment costs $2000/month and food, gas, etc. are all fairly expensive. Hospitals in the area start off at the low $40's/hr. It feels proportionally very wrong. The same salary would have seemed much better in a place where you can own a house for $1000/mo.
 

pillpharmer14

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This.

Concerns about liablity? Seriously? Were all concerned about liability, but this is what you signed up for. Doctors, nurses, pharmacists, dentists. Were all liable and any one of us is vulnerable to getting sued.

I agree the retail environment can be very tough, but mistakes can happen in crazy busy stores or dead ones. The most memorable mistake I ever made was during a blizzard where I filled about 60 rxs during a 8 hour shift.

Also....Ive seen salaries mentioned at 100k, 120k? Ive never made that low ever in my career. Even the local hospital that is known to be considerably less offered me roughly 120k back 7+ years ago.

I know MANY pharmacists that work for the big retail chains with salaries +/- 150k....and some +/- 200k with considerable OT and bonus.
I was talking about liability in general compared to liability at CVS. They are very different. I feel that I have relatively low liability in the hospital setting with regards to supervising techs.
 

Momus

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It's not as clear as that. I live in the Miami area, where a decent two bedroom apartment costs $2000/month and food, gas, etc. are all fairly expensive. Hospitals in the area start off at the low $40's/hr. It feels proportionally very wrong. The same salary would have seemed much better in a place where you can own a house for $1000/mo.
You wish you could get 2 BR for 2000/mo in SF, haha... that's cheap. You'd get a studio for 2.5k/mo. And yes, average pay in around that area is 75+/hr.
 

Deja

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You wish you could get 2 BR for 2000/mo in SF, haha... that's cheap. You'd get a studio for 2.5k/mo. And yes, average pay in around that area is 75+/hr.
wait avg pay in sf is 75+?!?!?!? im getting duped!!!! lol i pay 2400 for a studio lmao but seriously pharmacist here are getting 75+?!
 

spacecowgirl

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I live in a very low CoL area and make considerably more than $120K. Igloos are quite inexpensive. But for realz, I live 2 hours from a major metro area, so it's not total BFE.

We're not hiring - no turnover. Everyone knows they have it good; they aren't going anywhere.

I'm not doom and gloom but I AM very glad I am well into my career by now. I feel much more secure and I have sympathy for people looking now. Except for the people who only want to work in a specific place and whine that there is nothing available except float retail.
 

pillpharmer14

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Chasing rabbits here, but why does everyone think it's so acceptable to just move to the middle of nowhere to work? I would do it if there was no other option, but it seems like a lot of posters are bashing people for wanting to live in a certain area. I work in my preferred area currently, and I sure as hell didn't go to school for 7 years to move into isolation away from friends and family. I would "whine" just as much if I had to do that. What's next? "There are plenty of jobs quit whining, just get licensed in Canada and move there, you brat pharmacist?"
 

stoichiometrist

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2,172
Chasing rabbits here, but why does everyone think it's so acceptable to just move to the middle of nowhere to work? I would do it if there was no other option, but it seems like a lot of posters are bashing people for wanting to live in a certain area. I work in my preferred area currently, and I sure as hell didn't go to school for 7 years to move into isolation away from friends and family. I would "whine" just as much if I had to do that. What's next? "There are plenty of jobs quit whining, just get licensed in Canada and move there, you brat pharmacist?"
^ this, especially those who have mortgages, established spouses, and/or young children who cannot afford to just pack up and move.
 

wagrxm2000

A different perspective
5+ Year Member
Sep 17, 2014
3,438
1,973
Chasing rabbits here, but why does everyone think it's so acceptable to just move to the middle of nowhere to work? I would do it if there was no other option, but it seems like a lot of posters are bashing people for wanting to live in a certain area. I work in my preferred area currently, and I sure as hell didn't go to school for 7 years to move into isolation away from friends and family. I would "whine" just as much if I had to do that. What's next? "There are plenty of jobs quit whining, just get licensed in Canada and move there, you brat pharmacist?"
Well I would say why do pharmacists feel they deserve to work wherever they want? What profession do people ALWAYS get to choose where they want to work? No one is saying you have to stay there, just wait and a spot will open up.
 

CUninja

Riding Thru Your Backyard
7+ Year Member
Dec 23, 2009
238
22
Somewhere cold
Status
Pharmacist
Chasing rabbits here, but why does everyone think it's so acceptable to just move to the middle of nowhere to work? I would do it if there was no other option, but it seems like a lot of posters are bashing people for wanting to live in a certain area. I work in my preferred area currently, and I sure as hell didn't go to school for 7 years to move into isolation away from friends and family. I would "whine" just as much if I had to do that. What's next? "There are plenty of jobs quit whining, just get licensed in Canada and move there, you brat pharmacist?"
Your 7 years of school entitles you to nothing. Welcome to the real world.