when did your GI bill run out for medical school?

[anonimoose]

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Hello,

I apologize for starting a new thread, but I posted in the "nontraditional students" forum (of the pre-medical forums) and didn't get a definitive response.


Basic Question:

For veterans...

1. who have 100% eligibility for the Post 9/11 GI Bill AND
2. who attended medical school using said Post 9/11 GI Bill AND
3. who left the service (no further Active Duty/Reserve/Guard/scholarship obligations to confuse the analysis; just a clean break)

...when did your benefits run out?


Background:

Many have said that one's Post 9/11 GI Bill benefits will run out before the end of medical school.

And post 9/11 only covers 36 months. Most med schools go year round at some point so you'll need loans to cover the end. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/post-9-11-gi-bill.958248/

Otherwise, if I don't get a scholarship, I will use the post-9/11 GI Bill benefits for 36 months and suck it up with loans in the last year. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/g-i-bill-how-much-will-it-really-pay-for-med-school.688786/

The GI Bill can only be used for 3 years, but I have been told that you can spread out over 4 years if you do the traditional 2 semester route. The 3 year coverage is supposedly a year round deal so it is really meant to cover 4 years with the summers off like most schools do it. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...-cost-credit-or-states-most-expensive.703177/

You start having to do 12 month years once clinical work starts (for the most part). The 9-10 months thing only worked for me that first year. Not sure how that will pan out once I get to MS4 and the clock runs out half way through. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/gi-bill-for-medical-school-help.1012253/

However, all of this seems prospective/speculative -- I haven't read any postings on SDN by anyone who's actually completed medical school using the Post 9/11 GI Bill. (I'm sure people have in the past few years, but with internship and residency, they're probably too busy to post on SDN.)

I'm thinking that the conventional wisdom is right, but that the financial situation may be less dire than initially understood. I spoke to the veterans affairs coordinator at my university; she clarified a number of different points:

1. So long as there's one day of educational benefits remaining when an academic term begins, the Department of Veteran Affairs (VA) will pay the tuition (everything for state schools; up to $19,198.31 for private) for that academic year at the beginning of the academic year

2. So long as there's one day of educational benefits remaining when an academic term begins, the VA will pay said benefits (tuition/books fee, Basic Allowance for Housing [BAH]) for the remainder of the academic term -- thus, benefits can be extended past 36 months, up to 48 months

3. If applicable, Yellow Ribbon payments (both from the university and the VA) are paid at the beginning of the second academic term of an academic year


Analysis:

Based on the conversation, I have prepared the following analysis for a hypothetical veteran beginning medical school in Fall 2016 with 100% of her/his Post 9/11 GI Bill benefits remaining.

2016-08: MS1, tuition payment made, books (partial) paid, BAH paid (month 1/36)
2016-09: MS1, BAH paid (month 2/36)
2016-10: MS1, BAH paid (month 3/36)
2016-11: MS1, BAH paid (month 4/36)
2016-12: MS1, BAH paid (month 5/36)
2017-01: MS1, Yellow Ribbon paid, books (remainder) paid, BAH paid (month 6/36)
2017-02: MS1, BAH paid (month 7/36)
2017-03: MS1, BAH paid (month 8/36)
2017-04: MS1, BAH paid (month 9/36)
2017-05: MS1, BAH paid (month 10/36)
2017-06: MS1, BAH paid (month 11/36)
2017-07: MS1, no BAH paid (no classes)

2017-08: MS2, tuition payment made, books (partial) paid, BAH paid (month 12/36)
2017-09: MS2, BAH paid (month 13/36)
2017-10: MS2, BAH paid (month 14/36)
2017-11: MS2, BAH paid (month 15/36)
2017-12: MS2, BAH paid (month 16/36)
2018-01: MS2, Yellow Ribbon paid, books (remainder) paid, BAH paid (month 17/36)
2018-02: MS2, BAH paid (month 18/36)
2018-03: MS2, BAH paid (month 19/36)
2018-04: MS2, BAH paid (month 20/36)
2018-05: MS2, BAH paid (month 21/36)
2018-06: MS2, BAH paid (month 22/36)

2018-07: MS3, tuition payment made, books (partial) paid, BAH paid (month 23/36)
2018-08: MS3, BAH paid (month 24/36)
2018-09: MS3, BAH paid (month 25/36)
2018-10: MS3, BAH paid (month 26/36)
2018-11: MS3, BAH paid (month 27/36)
2018-12: MS3, BAH paid (month 28/36)
2019-01: MS3, Yellow Ribbon paid, books (remainder) paid, BAH paid (month 29/36)
2019-02: MS3, BAH paid (month 30/36)
2019-03: MS3, BAH paid (month 31/36)
2019-04: MS3, BAH paid (month 32/36)
2019-05: MS3, BAH paid (month 33/36)
2019-06: MS3, BAH paid (month 34/36)

2019-07: MS4, tuition payment made, books (partial) paid, BAH paid (month 35/36)
2019-08: MS4, BAH paid (month 36/36)
2019-09: MS4, BAH paid (month 37/48)
2019-10: MS4, BAH paid (month 38/48)
2019-11: MS4, BAH paid (month 39/48)
2019-12: MS4, BAH paid (month 40/48)
2020-01: MS4, no Yellow Ribbon paid, no books paid, no BAH paid
2020-02: MS4, no BAH paid
2020-03: MS4, no BAH paid
2020-04: MS4, no BAH paid
2020-05: MS4, no BAH paid
2020-06: MS4, no BAH paid


Requests for Information (RFI)s/Unknowns:

1. Is my analysis correct?

2. Does each university have its own policies (e.g. tuition payments split up into two terms instead of one lump sum at beginning of academic year, Yellow Ribbon paid at the beginning of the academic year instead of in the middle, etc)?


Would really prefer to hear from those who have actually done it. I realize I'm looking at a very small (and unique) sample size here -- but the insights from your personal experience would clarify, encourage, and enlighten those fellow veterans seeking to follow in your footsteps.

Respectfully,
Moose
(former USMC, current USMCR)

 

[BigNavyPedsGuy]

Thanks for your service Moose.

I've honestly never heard of anyone using their GI Bill for medical school. Very few folks have all the pre-med prereqs done upon separation and they use the GI bill for undergrad coursework. Or they've finished medical school and use the GI bill during residency.

I hope you find your answers, but unfortunately, I think you'll be blazing a new trail with this one.

I do know that each school's tuition payment structure/schedule is different. I know my school would've worked with you to figure out the right loan/GI Bill combo. Hopefully others would do the same.

 

[vamedrnr]

there are many of us in this boat and frankly we aren't quite sure how it will end. I found a great person at the Buffalo Regional VA who helped me a lot. She thinks it will run out but she had this great bit of info: the VA will pay in full whatever term you have already started. So suppose you start your last term at 35 mo, 29 days -the VA will pay out the end of that term. However, if you are short they will not start a new term. Which is absolutely insane given the spirit of the law. When I was trying to figure this out I did learn that many medical schools have some interesting "timelines" worked out with the VA to try and fix this in their own way. However, the VA is apparently cracking down on this process. If you are greater that >30%, you can transfer over the the Voc Rehab program as that program is 4 calendar years rather than 36 mo. You can do that all the way up to the last month, i.e. you could go to 34 mo on 9/11 and then transfer to Voc Rehab and it will finish that calendar year even though you are over 36. what you cannot do is begin any voc rehab paperwork after your 36 mo of 9/11 is used up. My schools financial aid dept had a sweet plan worked out for me should I have run out of months, but I decided on HPSP instead (for many other reasons).

 

[Pons Asinorum]

All,


However, all of this seems prospective/speculative -- I haven't read any postings on SDN by anyone who's actually completed medical school using the Post 9/11 GI Bill. (I'm sure people have in the past few years, but with internship and residency, they're probably too busy to post on SDN.)

I'm thinking that the conventional wisdom is right, but that the financial situation may be less dire than initially understood. I spoke to the veterans affairs coordinator at my university; she clarified a number of different points:

1. So long as there's one day of educational benefits remaining when an academic term begins, the Department of Veteran Affairs (VA) will pay the tuition (everything for state schools; up to $19,198.31 for private) for that academic year at the beginning of the academic year

2. So long as there's one day of educational benefits remaining when an academic term begins, the VA will pay said benefits (tuition/books fee, Basic Allowance for Housing [BAH]) for the remainder of the academic term -- thus, benefits can be extended past 36 months, up to 48 months

3. If applicable, Yellow Ribbon payments (both from the university and the VA) are paid at the beginning of the second academic term of an academic year

You are correct. My benefits lasted all the way through 4yrs of medical school, housing stipend included, consistent with your analysis. There comes a point where you just have to give in to just not knowing how it will all wash out when you deal with the VA, as the application of ambiguous directives is not something you can really predict.

 

[mikepremed1987]

Do med schools generally charge the entire year to the GI bill or per semester? The undergrad I am at charges per year. I am asking because I would have exactly 1 month left of post 9/11 going into MS3 year and if they charged the entire year that "should" allow the VA to extend my benefits the entire year or semester even though I am past the 36 months. Seems to good to be true.

edit: What I mean by "charging per year" is I get my statement from the VA and they show the college having me down for the entire year (8 months) at a time, even though this is 2 semesters.

 

[anonimoose]

You are correct. My benefits lasted all the way through 4yrs of medical school, housing stipend included, consistent with your analysis. There comes a point where you just have to give in to just not knowing how it will all wash out when you deal with the VA, as the application of ambiguous directives is not something you can really predict.

Dr. Pons Asinorum,

Thank you, thank you, thank you for the clear, factual information from someone who's actually been there, done that. I realize that there are a host of confounding factors that'll make each individual case somewhat unique, but glad to know that the conventional wisdom -- "Oh noes! You'll run out of the GI Bill in three years of medical school and will be screwed for your fourth year!" -- isn't completely/entirely correct.

Respectfully,
Moose

 

[numberwunn]

Mine lasted all 4 years for tuition and book stipend. Did not receive BAH (on HSCP). I think you may need to work with your school's registrar to make sure how they send frame the billing to make it last all 4 (i.e. because most schools are year-round for 3rd year you may have months that you don't get BAH in there, but want to get tuition paid for at least for the entire time). My school had lots of students with GI bill so they had it down pat.

 

[anonimoose]

Mine lasted all 4 years for tuition and book stipend. Did not receive BAH (on HSCP). I think you may need to work with your school's registrar to make sure how they send frame the billing to make it last all 4 (i.e. because most schools are year-round for 3rd year you may have months that you don't get BAH in there, but want to get tuition paid for at least for the entire time). My school had lots of students with GI bill so they had it down pat.

Dr. numberwunn,

Thank you for corroborating.

Very Respectfully,
Moose

 

[packersfans]

In undergrad I was able to use fractional months for several years. It involved using something like 7 of 12 units ( maybe 9 of 12 units?) each semester. At the time on fractional months you were able to receive full tuition and fees, full BAH and 7/12 or 9/12 of the books and supplies stipend. Essentially the book stipend was the only area you took the hit. Effectively you could turn 36 month into 62 months (at 7/12) or 48 months (at 9/12). The semester after the I left undergrad they closed the loophole and said if you are using 7/12 (9/12) you would still receive full tuition and fees but your BAH and books stipend would also be fractional. Not sure if this still holds true, If it does you could collect 12 of 12 units at first then taper off to fractional units after you get closer to the end. You may have to take loans to cover the BAH short-fall but it seems like at most schools tuition and fees are the major cost.


Another strategy, not sure if this is still true. If you fell into your last term with at least 1 month of benefits remaining the entire term would be covered.(edit: you covered that.)

Hopefully this helps.

edit: I should note, not sure if "fractional months" is the correct term. simply just what we referred to it as at my schools VA office.

 

[vamedrnr]

I specifically asked both my schools financial aid and the regional VA office if I could do this as BAH is a joke compared to my tuition. Was told no by both and that this is a loophole they are closing. But it seems like rules at the VA change depending on who you talk to, so I would recommend trying everything no matter how many of us have already been told no.