When do you finally throw in the towel?

[SmoothER]

---

Members do not see this ad.

SDN,

I've been losing sleep over this for the past few weeks and it's actually depressing me so I'd thought I'd try to get the opinions of some fellow premeds. I graduated from a top 25 undergrad with a major in the social sciences. I took a lot of the premedical prereqs during undergrad and I earned decent grades in them. I got mostly Bs along with an occasional B+ or A-. The thing is, I had basically had to kill myself to earn those grades. I had to study countless hours for midterms, only to get a B in general chem I. I had to study 4 hours/day for a whole semester to get a B+ in physics II. As for MCAT, I've been studying steadily for it for the past 2 months (I'm taking the August MCAT) and I plan to study all throughout the summer (I'm not taking any classes and I don't have any plans to get a job).

I've been asking myself this question. After looking at my undergraduate career (I graduated 1 year ago), should I really be pursuing medicine? If I have to study to death just to get a B in general chem or physics, should I even be pursuing medical school? Won't the medical school courses be 1000x worse than the premed prereqs in terms of volume of information, difficulty, etc? If I can't even make As in the premed prereqs, what business do I have applying? I've decided that if I break a 30 on the MCAT, I'll go through with the applications (not in this cycle, but in next year's cycle). But if I score <30 on the test, should I just call it quits and throw in the towel? This process has been emotionally, physically, and mentally draining. I HATED taking classes like general bio I, general chem I, organic chem I & II, etc. This is why I majored in a social science field and I consisently earned As in my social science classes (the majority of my courses were history and political science classes). Even the thought of taking more classes like biochem and genetics in medical school makes me cringe. That said, I love what doctors do for a living. I've shadowed several physicians before at some of the more prominent hospitals in the country and I truly love how the medical field is able to balance the logic and reasoning of the scientific method along with the compassion, empathy, and interpersonal skills that are required to care for the sick. I love how physicians are able to apply the scientific method to the human body and how they're able to combine that with "soft" factors like communication skills and compassion. I've wanted to be a doctor since high school (I contemplated applying to joint BS+MD programs in my senior year of high school), but I just don't know if I even have what it takes to make it through the academic rigors of medical school.

My friends have tried to console me by saying, "Dude, you went to a top 25 undergrad. That's why your premed classes were so hard. You were competing against a self-selected group of higly-motivated, intelligent, and hard-working people. Don't be so down on yourself." But I just don't feel I have what it takes. Any help would be appreciated. If it helps, I'm posting my stats below.

BCPM GPA: 3.35
NON-science GPA: 3.87
MCAT: Will be taking it this August (No, I haven't taken any full-length practice tests so far).

 

[akaz]

Don't throw in the towel. Look at your stats and just apply to many and a variety of schools. If you need to boost your gpa later, with more courses. It is hard when you are an undergrad. Age makes it easier.

SDN,

I've been losing sleep over this for the past few weeks and it's actually depressing me so I'd thought I'd try to get the opinions of some fellow premeds. I graduated from a top 25 undergrad with a major in the social sciences. I took a lot of the premedical prereqs during undergrad and I earned decent grades in them. I got mostly Bs along with an occasional B+ or A-. The thing is, I had basically had to kill myself to earn those grades. I had to study countless hours for midterms, only to get a B in general chem I. I had to study 4 hours/day for a whole semester to get a B+ in physics II. As for MCAT, I've been studying steadily for it for the past 2 months (I'm taking the August MCAT) and I plan to study all throughout the summer (I'm not taking any classes and I don't have any plans to get a job).

I've been asking myself this question. After looking at my undergraduate career (I graduated 1 year ago), should I really be pursuing medicine? If I have to study to death just to get a B in general chem or physics, should I even be pursuing medical school? Won't the medical school courses be 1000x worse than the premed prereqs in terms of volume of information, difficulty, etc? If I can't even make As in the premed prereqs, what business do I have applying? I've decided that if I break a 30 on the MCAT, I'll go through with the applications (not in this cycle, but in next year's cycle). But if I score <30 on the test, should I just call it quits and throw in the towel? This process has been emotionally, physically, and mentally draining. I HATED taking classes like general bio I, general chem I, organic chem I & II, etc. This is why I majored in a social science field and I consisently earned As in my social science classes (the majority of my courses were history and political science classes). Even the thought of taking more classes like biochem and genetics in medical school makes me cringe. That said, I love what doctors do for a living. I've shadowed several physicians before at some of the more prominent hospitals in the country and I truly love how the medical field is able to balance the logic and reasoning of the scientific method along with the compassion, empathy, and interpersonal skills that are required to care for the sick. I love how physicians are able to apply the scientific method to the human body and how they're able to combine that with "soft" factors like communication skills and compassion. I've wanted to be a doctor since high school (I contemplated applying to joint BS+MD programs in my senior year of high school), but I just don't know if I even have what it takes to make it through the academic rigors of medical school.

My friends have tried to console me by saying, "Dude, you went to a top 25 undergrad. That's why your premed classes were so hard. You were competing against a self-selected group of higly-motivated, intelligent, and hard-working people. Don't be so down on yourself." But I just don't feel I have what it takes. Any help would be appreciated. If it helps, I'm posting my stats below.

BCPM GPA: 3.35
NON-science GPA: 3.87
MCAT: Will be taking it this August (No, I haven't taken any full-length practice tests so far).

 

[SmoothER]

Don't throw in the towel. Look at your stats and just apply to many and a variety of schools. If you need to boost your gpa later, with more courses. It is hard when you are an undergrad. Age makes it easier.

I'd like to apologize beforehand for posting this in allopathic. I thought it I the the "pre-allopathic" button but I obviously hit the "allopathic" button. Once again, I apologize and I'd be happy to delete the thread if necessary. I already posted this in pre-allo.

 

[kirexhana]

from what i've seen so far (not very much) med school work does look very intensive. BUT it doesn't seem too difficult. i think a big difference between med school and undergrad is that in your med school class, people are more likely to be cooperative and help you learn the material (at least i HOPE that's what's it's like) than the competition in undergrad.

general bio, gchem and ochem are not at all like the basic sciences you'd learn in med school, which seems to be more anatomy/physiology heavy. so if you're at all interested in those areas of bio it will be much easier for you than boring undergrad stuff.

B's are not bad grades, i'd say you're doing fine and will be able to learn med school material. chin up.

 

[footcramp]

if you are studying a lot because the material is difficult then you will probably be ok. if you're study a lot because you can't remember the material well enough then it will be tough. med school is like 1% thinking 99% regurgitation. well the first two years, anyway. you don't really have to study that hard for the clinical years.

my advice is to try as hard as you can. your case is far from hopeless, in my opinion. try your best. if you get into med school and somehow find it's too hard, well, at least you tried. if it really is your dream to be a doctor then don't you think it's worth a shot? nothing ventured, nothing gained.

 

[cfdavid]

Hey there OP. First, I don't think that you should take yourself out of the game if you really want to pursue medicine. But, I think it may be possible that your study method(s) might not be best suited to your individual learning style.

I'm in no way an expert in this matter, but perhaps you could do some research into learning methods (and even techniques for memorization. look into The Memory Book, by H. Lorrayne). The point is that you may not be studying in a fashion that allows for the highest yield in terms of time etc.

DON'T think this post is a confirmation that I feel you're putting too much time into studying. And I know many people that busted their a*ss to pass, for example, the CPA exam (not easy) or to get through a difficult MBA program. But, in the real world they are doing great in their careers. So, don't assume that if you MAY need to spend a bit more time than SOME others, that medicine is not for you. But, perhaps look into some more structured learning methods that can allow you to cut some of the time back. I'm confident that you will find a wealth of information on that stuff, but you may need to sort through the good from the bad/b.s./gimmiky stuff.

Also, don't let yourself get psyched out by overly competitive types (i.e. many pre-meds) that just love to brag about how little they have to study. Yet somehow they miraculously get A's in organic chemistry. I mean, after all, it's just "common sense", right? lol Sure, some subjects may come easier to some than to others, but most of the sciences really do require time to in order to get good grades.

Good luck!

 

[QofQuimica]

When I read your post, the first question that jumped into my mind is, why don't you go with what you love, which is clearly the social sciences? If you want to be a doctor, you are going to have to spend two intense years taking classes and studying subjects that you hate. Unlike in college, you won't be able to dilute your med school classes with classes from your major; it's going to pretty much be all science, all the time. I don't doubt that you CAN do it, but I do wonder whether it's worth you sacrificing so much time if you're going to be miserable. Have you considered going into psychology, sociology, or anthropology? There are medical applications to all of these fields, and you'd probably enjoy the schooling as well as the work. Maybe you have already thought about these things, and if so, forgive me for bringing this up. It's just that I don't get the impression that you would enjoy going to medical school. That being said, if you're sure you want to be a doctor, the good thing is that after the first two years, you won't have to take any more formal science courses, and you will hopefully find medicine a lot more enjoyable. You may just have to tough it out for those two years until you get to the clinical part. Best of luck to you whatever you decide to do. 🙂

 

[Hoya11]

I thnk you are really asking: Do I really want more of this stuff I hate?

A lot of people like studying and taking science classes and worrying about grades, etc...but many like me hated undergrad premed and hated all of med school classes to date. I had the same debate with myself about school, do I really want to do this? But wont it be worth it once the first two years are over? I wasnt sure, but I did it anyway and now I am done with my second year and it is basically over... and I cant wait to start seeing patients finally.

Let me just say that, different from undergrad premed classes, yes there is more work in med school. Yes it sucks much more than you can imagine. But whats better about it is there is NO pressure at all. You can fail or just get by and you will eventually come out the other side a doctor. You have no one to impress, no grades to worry about, you are in the magic little club once you are in med school.

 

[tiger_lily]

What *exactly* about medicine do you love? If it's the empathy/compassion/spending time with patients, you may want to consider nursing. In many areas of medicine, nurses are the ones who spend the most time with the patients and their families. Nursing courses cover sciences as well (though you may get to use some of the prereqs you've already completed) but usually has quite a heavy emphasis on the social sciences/humanities end of things, from what I understand. One idea might be to shadow some nurses and doctors on the same hospital ward, and see if you prefer one above the other?
One of my best friends is an ER nurse, and he absolutely loves it. He's brilliant too - far smarter than me! - but he loves nursing and wouldn't do medicine for anything. I, on the other hand, will have to work much harder at med school than he would, but am totally passionate about being a doctor and wouldn't be happy as a nurse. But, it's something to consider if you haven't already 🙂

 

[manO'war]

To the OP,
ya know I never was really fan of my undergrad science classses. Did it coz i had too, and had to spent some time in it too. like someone else said, we have to examine our study habits too. i think the first semester of med school was hard, coz i had to really figure out how to learn (HAHAH). In med school rite now, man I love the science stuff. there is a beauty in why things are there and how they work. I dont think i got that too much in undergrad for watever reason. So dont loose faith coz of your supposed lack of passion for science.
What you really gotta ask yourself though like some others point out is whether you wanna be a doctor? and whatever that is, nobody on this freakin forum or newhere else can tell ya; yes thats a good reason or its a bad reason. the call to be a doctor is upto you; screw what everyone else feels or thinks, do it if you want it or dont.
once you have the above part done, whether you can withstand the rigors of med scchool? well you want it bad enough rite? you will find a way.

 

[velo]

duplicate

 

[velo]

Well first of all, I don't think any concepts in medical school are "harder" than what you learn in undergrad. Each individual idea is just as easy (or hard) to grasp as any other. Of course, the volume of information does increase precipitously, and you have to be prepared for that to be challenging--not impossible, just challenging.

The thing that sticks in my craw about your OP is that I remember so many instances during 2nd year (and a few during 1st) where I thought to myself "man, if I didn't find this stuff really interesting, this just wouldn't be worth it." I really wish you had taken something like physiology--or any class that's very integrative-- so you could get an idea if its very basic science or just science in general that you can't stand.

If you find the field interesting enough but you have to work hard to do it, then I say stick with it. But if you're having trouble because you really just don't like it, I think you'll burn out hard.

Best of luck, I know this can be a stressful time, but I'm sure you'll come to the right decision.

 

[Ypo.]

Well first of all, I don't think any concepts in medical school are "harder" than what you learn in undergrad.

I have to second this. Actually conceptually it has been a lot easier to grasp than undergrad. It's just the sheer volume.

 

[Diceman M.D.]

To the OP:

I was a psych major and hated freaking prereq classes. You have a better science GPA than I did. Just score above a 30 on the MCAT and you'll be fine. Apply to maybe 10 more schools than everyone else, you'll get in a decent program.

As far as classes go, I'll be honest, first year was ****e because it was another year of basically undergrad. I've so far pretty much aced second year and absorb the concepts damn well, so don't let your undergrad prereq classes clogged with premeds taught by PhDs who hate premeds say anything about your intellectual ability.

 

[2Sexy4MedSchool]

SDN,

I've been losing sleep over this for the past few weeks and it's actually depressing me so I'd thought I'd try to get the opinions of some fellow premeds. I graduated from a top 25 undergrad with a major in the social sciences. I took a lot of the premedical prereqs during undergrad and I earned decent grades in them. I got mostly Bs along with an occasional B+ or A-. The thing is, I had basically had to kill myself to earn those grades. I had to study countless hours for midterms, only to get a B in general chem I..

To the OP:

Hello. I'm going to be an M1 this fall, so take this with a grain of salt. However, I think my law school experience is relevant to an issue you raise that has not yet been addressed. No matter which class we had, some of my classmates found the material easy and did not have to work hard while others had to beat their heads agianst their books for 10 hours/day every day just to keep up. Ditto prepping for the bar exam. But the point is that in some ways the hard workers made better lawyers than the people who absorbed the material easily.

There is a definite value to learning how to work hard for little to no tangible reward. Your post makes it sound like you feel killing yourself for a B makes you a bad candidate for med school. I don't know, because (obviously) we have never met. But I can tell you that as a patient I'd rather have the guy who beat the crap out of himself for that "B" than the guy who breezed through his classes on sheer brains. Don't get me wrong -- I'm not saying you're dumb; I'm saying I want the hard worker assigned to my case because he's more likely to put the time and energy needed to get the job done, even when thinks don't show immediate improvement. Tenacity impresses me more than genius because it is earned, not inheirited.

 

[cfdavid]

To the OP:

Hello. I'm going to be an M1 this fall, so take this with a grain of salt. However, I think my law school experience is relevant to an issue you raise that has not yet been addressed. No matter which class we had, some of my classmates found the material easy and did not have to work hard while others had to beat their heads agianst their books for 10 hours/day every day just to keep up. Ditto prepping for the bar exam. But the point is that in some ways the hard workers made better lawyers than the people who absorbed the material easily.

There is a definite value to learning how to work hard for little to no tangible reward. Your post makes it sound like you feel killing yourself for a B makes you a bad candidate for med school. I don't know, because (obviously) we have never met. But I can tell you that as a patient I'd rather have the guy who beat the crap out of himself for that "B" than the guy who breezed through his classes on sheer brains. Don't get me wrong -- I'm not saying you're dumb; I'm saying I want the hard worker assigned to my case because he's more likely to put the time and energy needed to get the job done, even when thinks don't show immediate improvement. Tenacity impresses me more than genius because it is earned, not inheirited.

Good post. Spoken like someone with experience in the real world. I've see the same thing myself, many times over.

 

[tiger_lily]

so don't let your undergrad prereq classes clogged with premeds taught by PhDs who hate premeds say anything about your intellectual ability.

Too true!

 

[skypilot]

Some undergrad schools (mine included) are filled with weeder classes designed to get people to drop out of the premed track. Med school is not like that, there are vast volumes of material to learn but it is very straightforward and the professors do what they can to make it easier to learn. You may find the material much more like your social science classes than it is like Physics or General Chemistry.

You will have to put in many many hours though. If you have any doubts take a sabbatical for a couple of years before you start.

 

[chef_NU]

I thnk you are really asking: Do I really want more of this stuff I hate?

A lot of people like studying and taking science classes and worrying about grades, etc...but many like me hated undergrad premed and hated all of med school classes to date. I had the same debate with myself about school, do I really want to do this? But wont it be worth it once the first two years are over? I wasnt sure, but I did it anyway and now I am done with my second year and it is basically over... and I cant wait to start seeing patients finally.

Let me just say that, different from undergrad premed classes, yes there is more work in med school. Yes it sucks much more than you can imagine. But whats better about it is there is NO pressure at all. You can fail or just get by and you will eventually come out the other side a doctor. You have no one to impress, no grades to worry about, you are in the magic little club once you are in med school.

"i hate, i hate, i hate, i hate... Peter Pan"

--captain hook

 

[Katya00]

Someone mentioned going into nursing, but you could also think about Physician's Assistant. It is less time to the degree, and less money, so if you change your mind, you won't be out as much.

Good luck to you. The advice given here is very good, but make sure you don't decide to pursue medicine just because you've invested so much time and energy toward this goal. There are many, many other careers out there that you can be happy in.

It is good to search your soul to be sure...I spent some years off doing different things, and I was drawn back into medicine. I have reservations about all the work, the stress, the money (etc!) but I try to focus on the reasons I decided to go into medicine instead. Besides I know I'll be so busy once school starts I won't have time to think about anything else

 

[Shangal]

take the MCATs, if you do bad on it re-take it next year. If you do bad on it again, re-take it again, and again, untill you get a good score. Your GPA isn't that bad, so just study for the MCATs really well, actually study for it with fear. If you get a solid MCAT score >30 you will get in, no question, somewhere. Just realize before you get in, most people in med school always question why they are in med school, and only a selected few actually enjoy the first two years of it. So don't worry about that until you get in.

After that is over, you will get into med school and advise everyone against applying to med school and recommend nursing or something like social work and make comments like, if you want to help people you can do it through other means, and crap like that, because you will be an arrogant jerk and don't even realize it.

I was just kidding with that last comment, but seriously, good luck with everything. I know how much you are stressed with the MCATs since now I am litterally crapping in my pants because of my fear of the USMLE's

 

[Katya00]

Yeah, because only arrogance could lead a person to recommend you thoroughly research all your options, especially when you have doubts.

That's exactly where I was coming from at least, I'm glad someone pegged me so quickly.

It's all so simple, I was a fool to think there were options. The credo of the day is "When in doubt, do not hesitate, but jump right in."

Or maybe once you are accepted, you can become arrogant enough to assume that medicine is for everyone, and that you couldn't possibly be happy in any other field.

 

[MeowMix]

You almost certainly are smart enough to make it through med school, but you sound burned out.

Take some time off, postpone the MCAT, take a break and focus on figuring out what's most important to you and whether medicine will meet those needs. If you hated the classes, studying all summer for the MCAT is going to really suck without a strong motivation for where it's going to take you. Two years of course work in med school will really suck; you need powerful motivation to get through that.

A problem, unfortunately, is that undergrad courses aren't the real world. I've never had a job/career yet where the undergrad class was any indication of what it was like to actually do that job every day and make a living doing it. I'm hoping my med school classes are equally unreflective of the real world of practicing medicine. 😀

 

[Rogue Synapse]

MeowMix, I love your screen name. Tickles the ole funny bone. I don't even like cats.

 

[dynx]

BCPM GPA: 3.35
NON-science GPA: 3.87
MCAT: Will be taking it this August (No, I haven't taken any full-length practice tests so far).

you're GPA beats my undergrad GPA all to hell. Im currently doing rather well in medical school. I assume you can too. The only thing I would say is it sounds as if you are not sure you even want to try at this point. If you dont go in motivated you could get creamed...decide if you really want to do it, dont worry about keeping up, you'll do fine.

 

[Droopy Snoopy]

To the OP:
There is a definite value to learning how to work hard for little to no tangible reward. Your post makes it sound like you feel killing yourself for a B makes you a bad candidate for med school. I don't know, because (obviously) we have never met. But I can tell you that as a patient I'd rather have the guy who beat the crap out of himself for that "B" than the guy who breezed through his classes on sheer brains. Don't get me wrong -- I'm not saying you're dumb; I'm saying I want the hard worker assigned to my case because he's more likely to put the time and energy needed to get the job done, even when thinks don't show immediate improvement. Tenacity impresses me more than genius because it is earned, not inheirited.

I agree wholeheartedly with the above statement. The kids who know how to study and work hard do far better as a group than those naturally brilliant coasters. You may not graduate in the top ten, but neither will most of the rest of us. That doesn't mean you'll be a bad doctor.

 

[MossPoh]

You just sound really drained, and worried. While there are people that don't have to study hard for this stuff there is also that equal amount that study excessivley. Just take a few deep breaths, stay positive, and try. I wouldn't give up on the first try. If you quit after that and just get whatever job somewhere then you'll probably wind up miserable, or at least very unfulfilled and left with doubts the rest of your life. Stay positive, work hard, and you'll get past that plateau........not everyone in medical school is a genius that just got a's without trying....in the end it is your heart and your attitude that really get you through and make you a great physician..well and a little bit of intelligence but you seem to be fine in that category.

 

[Army_Doc]

Don't give up! I felt the same way during my MCAT prep and application process. Remember why you chose medicine in the first place. There must have been something you enjoyed. Try and get in touch with that again.
The fact that you've worked your butt off this far shows how dedicated you are to the profession, and although I'm still far from my personal goals, I already know that dedication is the key to any field (more so than any level of genius). Keep it up!

 

[ToPa55]

hey all, I just recently moved my SDN addiction from the pre-allo to the allo now that I will be attending medical school this fall. It is like night and day b/n the two forums. You guys have some generally good and caring advice, I wonder if it's the cut-throat mentality to get into med school that makes the pre-allo so unbearable, and once you get in, I guess that goes away.. or does it get WORSE??

and to the O.P., like others have said, I would do some real soul-searching and be real with yourself. If you know medicine is your passion, then you will do everything in your power to make it happen. Good luck!

 

[RaaMD]

To the OP:

Hello. I'm going to be an M1 this fall, so take this with a grain of salt. However, I think my law school experience is relevant to an issue you raise that has not yet been addressed. No matter which class we had, some of my classmates found the material easy and did not have to work hard while others had to beat their heads agianst their books for 10 hours/day every day just to keep up. Ditto prepping for the bar exam. But the point is that in some ways the hard workers made better lawyers than the people who absorbed the material easily.

There is a definite value to learning how to work hard for little to no tangible reward. Your post makes it sound like you feel killing yourself for a B makes you a bad candidate for med school. I don't know, because (obviously) we have never met. But I can tell you that as a patient I'd rather have the guy who beat the crap out of himself for that "B" than the guy who breezed through his classes on sheer brains. Don't get me wrong -- I'm not saying you're dumb; I'm saying I want the hard worker assigned to my case because he's more likely to put the time and energy needed to get the job done, even when thinks don't show immediate improvement. Tenacity impresses me more than genius because it is earned, not inheirited.

Beautifully said...