When to reject DO acceptance?

[Dr. Zombie]

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If outcomes between MD and DO were the same, then students who today would only apply MD would also apply DO. This would mean that mean GPA and MCAT for DO schools would approach low tier MD schools. Many of the supporters of MD/DO equality fail to realize that they would not have gotten into med school at all if this were the case.

I don't believe that admissions standards is the core of the issue. If everything else was equal, then I believe in my opinion, admissions standards would be overlooked.

 

[Beth_W737]

You neglect to realize many older upper tier DO schools like PCOM, Rowan, even Touros have GPA and MCAT similar to low tier MD. (>3.5 GPA, 28-30+ MCAT).

It's only the newer schools that still have a big difference in stats. The older schools are equal in quality or better than some low/mid tier MDs.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

You neglect to realize many older upper tier DO schools like PCOM, Rowan, even Touros have GPA and MCAT similar to low tier MD. (>3.5 GPA, 28-30+ MCAT).

It's only the newer schools that still have a big difference in stats. The older schools are equal in quality or better than some low/mid tier MDs.

There's a bit of an issue with the logic there. A school's stats =/= quality of a school.

PCOM/CCOM are amazing schools and comparable to MD schools in many regards. But undoubtedly even if you look at a low tier MD school like NYMC or RFU you'll see match lists that have more competitive specialty matches in a single year than PCOM had in the last 5. There's simply no denying that going to a DO school will limit your opportunities to match in many fields and in many places.

So if you want Radiation oncology and nothing else, then chances are you're better off doing a year in a lab, retaking the mcat, doing a SMP, etc.

 

[Beth_W737]

Few people will get in radiation oncology even if going to low or mid tier MD. Competitive for all MDs as well, so a bad reason to discourage people from going DO - especially if you are not someone who has gone to an osteopathic med school, Also should not base value off match list, many people choose to stay in system or certain geographic area.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Few people will get in radiation oncology even if going to low or mid tier MD. Competitive for all MDs as well, so a bad reason to discourage people from going DO - especially if you are not someone who has gone to an osteopathic med school, Also should not base value off match list, many people choose to stay in system or certain geographic area.

Right, that argument would work well if not for the fact that there's about a 50% match difference between a MD & DO for Rad oncology. But it doesn't really matter, statistics are statistics. A MD with an average USMLE score will do better than his/her DO colleague who scored far higher than them as evident in the match statistics book.

I imagine we can largely control for preference between schools and many other differences. The common denominator is that one school produces MDs and the other does not. But maybe you should listen to the residents who graduated from osteopathic medical school like the few above who openly stated that DOs are disadvantaged in the match.

 

[Beth_W737]

You always seem to reply to just one point. Radiation oncology is competitive, being at an avg mid tier MD doesn't give you that much better of a shot, it's still a crapshoot even for them.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

You always seem to reply to just one point. Radiation oncology is competitive, being at an avg mid tier MD doesn't give you that much better of a shot, it's still a crapshoot even for them.

There were more rad onco matches at a single low tier MD school than all of the DO schools combined for the last 5 years. But again, I'm using rad onc purely because it was an easy example. I could easily say a multitude of different residencies, I mean for example Derm. A graduate with an average USMLE score has a 70% shot of getting in, but for DOs? Probably 0 even with a 250.

 

[Jumpstartmy5HT]

Anywho, Seretonin call DMU on Tuesday to tell them you wish for your acceptance to go to someone else.

Actually it's KCUMB. Can I email or should I call? I ask because I am currently not even in the country, and there is an 11 hour time difference.


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[chizledfrmstone]

Actually it's KCUMB. Can I email or should I call? I ask because I am currently not even in the country, and there is an 11 hour time difference.


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Either one is fine. I now a person who politely declined over email and they send him a nice reply thanking him for letting them know early on.

 

[cliquesh]

Few people will get in radiation oncology even if going to low or mid tier MD. Competitive for all MDs as well, so a bad reason to discourage people from going DO - especially if you are not someone who has gone to an osteopathic med school, Also should not base value off match list, many people choose to stay in system or certain geographic area.

In 2011, 21 out of the 25 usmds applying for rad onc with usmle scores between 221 and 230 matched.

 

[Strudel19]

I think this post has lead to some meaningful discussions, especially the ones involving current residents sharing their application woes. This time marks the beginning of another application cycle, and the information may prove useful to those who are applying.


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Brilliant.

 

[costales]

In 2011, 21 out of the 25 usmds applying for rad onc with usmle scores between 221 and 230 matched.

I'll bet that every one of them had multiple publications and stellar LORs.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I'll bet that every one of them had multiple publications and stellar LORs.

Well those things are inherently better and more plentiful at MD schools to begin with anyway right? Research and LORs from big shots.

 

[235009]

DO match outcomes are way more similar to those of the "big 4" Caribbean schools than they are to any US MD school (even "low-tier" ones). The only difference is that DO schools tend to have less attrition and a higher match rate than Caribbean schools because of the COMLEX (which is an easier test than the USMLE) and DO residencies (which are, at the moment, not subject to competition from IMGs and FMGs). If you compare Touro Harlem's match list to that of NYMC (similar locations, both private, to account for geographic preference) you'll notice a stark difference. Touro's list is littered with no-name community programs for IM and FM and at NYMC the average IM applicant can end up at a very respectable mid-tier university program in a desirable location.

An extra $10k a year to go US MD is a no-brainer. You can't count on being that one superstar at your DO school who's going to match well. Odds are you won't be. In fact odds are you won't even be close. Being average at a US MD school is significantly more advantageous than being average at a DO school.

 

[Dr. Zombie]

DO match outcomes are way more similar to those of the "big 4" Caribbean schools than they are to any US MD school (even "low-tier" ones). The only difference is that DO schools tend to have less attrition and a higher match rate than Caribbean schools because of the COMLEX (which is an easier test than the USMLE) and DO residencies (which are, at the moment, not subject to competition from IMGs and FMGs). If you compare Touro Harlem's match list to that of NYMC (similar locations, both private, to account for geographic preference) you'll notice a stark difference. Touro's list is littered with no-name community programs for IM and FM and at NYMC the average IM applicant can end up at a very respectable mid-tier university program in a desirable location.

An extra $10k a year to go US MD is a no-brainer. You can't count on being that one superstar at your DO school who's going to match well. Odds are you won't be. In fact odds are you won't even be close. Being average at a US MD school is significantly more advantageous than being average at a DO school.

I think comparing Touro-NY with NYMC is not fair. The reason being that NYMC is located only 20-30min drive from Manhattan/Bronx boroughs. What do you have there? You have Columbia's program, Cornell's program, Albert Einstein's program, Mount Sinai program, NYU's program, leaving the rest to being community programs.

And we all know nearly all elite program directors are anti-DO's, so if you have a region flooded with top-tier programs, its hard to hold Touro-NY (a new school) accountable for not being able to send their students there.

For what it's worth though, Touro-NY has sent students to NYU's PMR and Columbia's PMR program which are ranked top 10. And yes I know what you will say "it's PMR."

My counter-argument is that NYU and Columbia program directors could've had their share of MD students from anywhere in the country and they chose to give 2-3 of their yearly spots to Touro students.

 

[chizledfrmstone]

I think comparing Touro-NY with NYMC is not fair. The reason being that NYMC is located only 20-30min drive from Manhattan/Bronx boroughs. What do you have there? You have Columbia's program, Cornell's program, Albert Einstein's program, Mount Sinai program, NYU's program, leaving the rest to being community programs.

And we all know nearly all elite program directors are anti-DO's, so if you have a region flooded with top-tier programs, its hard to hold Touro-NY (a new school) accountable for not being able to send their students there.

For what it's worth though, Touro-NY has sent students to NYU's PMR and Columbia's PMR program which are ranked top 10. And yes I know what you will say "it's PMR."

My counter-argument is that NYU and Columbia program directors could've had their share of MD students from anywhere in the country and they chose to give 2-3 of their yearly spots to Touro students.

Isn't that the whole issue here?

If Touro was an MD school, do you think the students would have a better chance?

 

[Dr. Zombie]

Isn't that the whole issue here?

If Touro was an MD school, do you think the students would have a better chance?

Even though I am supporting her to go to the MD school over DO for the sake of opportunities, I just felt comparing NYMC to Touro-NY was a bit harsh because of the ivy-league region Touro is in.

Yes, if Touro was MD it would perform better simply because the initials changed, but at the same time, if Touro was outside of NYC, their match list would be better too (as a DO school).

I'm just felt the user above was trashing Touro's match lists a little more than it deserved. That's all I'm saying lol.

 

[chizledfrmstone]

Even though I am supporting him to go to the MD school over DO for the sake of opportunities, I just felt comparing NYMC to Touro-NY was a bit harsh because of the ivy-league region Touro is in.

Yes, if Touro was MD it would perform better simply because the initials changed, but at the same time, if Touro was outside of NYC, their match list would be better too (as a DO school).

I'm just felt the user above was trashing Touro's match lists a little more than it deserved. That's all I'm saying lol.

1.) I think OP is female.

2.) If "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts, we'd all have a merry Christmas.

 

[Dr. Zombie]

1.) I think OP is female.

2.) If "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts, we'd all have a merry Christmas.

1. Edited the pronoun.

2. I don't think so....I'm currently on a diet for OMM

 

[235009]

Even though I am supporting her to go to the MD school over DO for the sake of opportunities, I just felt comparing NYMC to Touro-NY was a bit harsh because of the ivy-league region Touro is in.

Yes, if Touro was MD it would perform better simply because the initials changed, but at the same time, if Touro was outside of NYC, their match list would be better too (as a DO school).

I'm just felt the user above was trashing Touro's match lists a little more than it deserved. That's all I'm saying lol.

I just chose those schools because they're in a region i'm familiar with and because someone earlier mentioned that NYMC was a "low-tier" school. My main argument was that your opportunities are still significantly better at a "low-tier" school like NYMC. You can find similar comparisons all over the country.

Also the word "bias" isn't really accurate when you describe the preference of program directors for US MDs. There are real reasons to prefer US MDs over DOs and caribbean students not least of which is the consistently solid clinical training you can count on since the LCME has very strict standards.

 

[JustPlainBill]

Fair enough. But I don't like how pre-meds tend to exerpt and try to show that I went DO because I wasn't "good enough" to go MD. However one looks at it my point is I was given a chance to become a doctor and I am grateful everyday that I "made it". It wasn't because it was easy, or "easier" because I was in a DO school. So I try to be positive with the hand I was dealt and how I treat a patient is in no way inferior to what MD's do and sometimes even better when I can manipulate them back into place..

About that snide comment how I should have gone into the WAMI program had I had a 3.8 the first time around. I will tell you in 1992 the director of the WAMI program told me to my face that "Women don't belong in medicine and that I would be better of getting married and staying home with the children". I will tell you after that I had no desire to EVER even consider U of W as a place I would even think of setting foot in. Unless you have walked in my shoes you all can keep wishing about getting accepted somewhere, anywhere while I am living my dream.

My comments are only meant to be positive and helpful because this journey is hard enough without others knocking you down and being negative. So please excuse me for being a little irritated.

Wow -- Cabin -- I'm surprised you're even entertaining this one -- Who cares what a bunch of premed/preosteo, meds students or residents think? Until they've graduated residency their opinions don't really matter. We've both seen plenty of people who started down the path of medicine only to quit/flunk out for various reasons -- including those with high MCAT/GPAs.

Life lesson for the other posters -- As a patient, I really don't care where you graduated from or what residency you went to -- I've had Allergists from name residencies/medical schools who were almost comical in their physical exam skills and were tech dorks who hid behind the computer screen rather than really connect with patients. I've had arrogant asses who talked at my wife, rather than to her and were so pompous that I had them pegged as UTSW grads before I actually saw the residency graduation certificate on the wall. We wound up going with a podiatrist rather than this ortho dork and were completely happy and referred others to him.

Once you're out, it's about people skills and connecting with your patients --- and no one cares about where you went or what awards you have....

To the OP -- If you want to be a DO, then do it. If not, then give up the seat for someone who wants to be a DO. I originally wanted to be a DO but then became disenchanted with it when I saw how OMM/OPP were taught at my school. And I went to one of the top 25 schools for Primary Care according to USNews&World Report -- so what.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

^ this was just a wall of words honestly.

You essentially claimed that MDs are pompous inherently.

Likewise you used US ratings. That kills your entire post.

 

[Bill Brasky]

We really needed another MD vs. DO thread. Great job, team.

 

[Lycian]

For whatever it's worth, I had good enough numbers to go to an MD school, but only applied DO because I liked what that option offered significantly more. I feel like I fall into a small minority on this one, but there were some additional things DO offered I really thought were worth potential residency difficulties in the future.

 

[Dr. Zombie]

For whatever it's worth, I had good enough numbers to go to an MD school, but only applied DO because I liked what that option offered significantly more. I feel like I fall into a small minority on this one, but there were some additional things DO offered I really thought were worth potential residency difficulties in the future.

Nothing is worth residency troubles. That's your licensing you're messing with.

 

[el_duderino]

For whatever it's worth, I had good enough numbers to go to an MD school, but only applied DO because I liked what that option offered significantly more. I feel like I fall into a small minority on this one, but there were some additional things DO offered I really thought were worth potential residency difficulties in the future.

Serious question: what additional things do you feel DO offered that were worth potential residency difficulties?

 

[JustPlainBill]

^ this was just a wall of words honestly.

You essentially claimed that MDs are pompous inherently.

Likewise you used US ratings. That kills your entire post.

Soooo, since I have some time on my hands right now ----

I was pointing out the fact that I've met my share of idiots from "name" residencies/schools -- both MD/DO....the two examples I used were MD as there seems to be a certain amount of DO bias in this particular thread which was started before my comment.....

And I find the arbitrary rules used in arguments here quite entertaining --re: "you used US ratings. That kills your entire post."....coming from a pre-med, it reminds me of the neurotic personalities that get into medical school and regularly need to be adjusted to work and play well in the sandbox.

While I appreciate your comments, your arguments as a pre-med with no terminal clinical degree behind your name and no experience in residency match kill your entire post ;->

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

Soooo, since I have some time on my hands right now ----

I was pointing out the fact that I've met my share of idiots from "name" residencies/schools -- both MD/DO....the two examples I used were MD as there seems to be a certain amount of DO bias in this particular thread which was started before my comment.....

And I find the arbitrary rules used in arguments here quite entertaining --re: "you used US ratings. That kills your entire post."....coming from a pre-med, it reminds me of the neurotic personalities that get into medical school and regularly need to be adjusted to work and play well in the sandbox.

While I appreciate your comments, your arguments as a pre-med with no terminal clinical degree behind your name and no experience in residency match kill your entire post ;->

oh snap, burn

 

[Lycian]

1) Better quality of life. DOs practice longer, are happier and have lower suicide rates. I have met a lot of successful MDs who are not happy about their lives; this has never been my experience with DOs.
I have also found the DO community to be more friendly collaborative and relaxed than the MD one.
2) I think OMM is very valuable. It helped me a lot, I have seen it make big improvements for patients who otherwise could not be helped, and it is something I would enjoy practicing.
3) Being able to accurately diagnose patients and ideally treat them without referrals is very important to me. I feel DO schools, at least the one I am going to do a very good job at this. I have seen extremely inconsistent results in this regard (at least by my standards) from the people I know who went through MD program.

I don't feel a 200k salary vs a 400k salary really matters compared to quality enjoyment and satisfaction of life. For the highest paying residencies, it is true that you have better odds with MD, but I think that link is actually a bit spurious. The main thing most residencies care about are board scores, and only super smart people get high board scores. The super smart people are normally in MD schools, and thus MD 4th years have better test scores than DO 4th years, which allows them to get the coveted residency spots.

Every residency I potentially want to go to is accessible to me with the path I'm taking, so I feel all around pretty good about my choice. Ultimately my main advice for anyone pondering this question is to think the whole process and path through, from the start to the very end, rather than just stopping at say "which will get me into best residency."

 

[cliquesh]

1) Better quality of life. DOs practice longer, are happier and have lower suicide rates. I have met a lot of successful MDs who are not happy about their lives; this has never been my experience with DOs.
I have also found the DO community to be more friendly collaborative and relaxed than the MD one.
2) I think OMM is very valuable. It helped me a lot, I have seen it make big improvements for patients who otherwise could not be helped, and it is something I would enjoy practicing.
3) Being able to accurately diagnose patients and ideally treat them without referrals is very important to me. I feel DO schools, at least the one I am going to do a very good job at this. I have seen extremely inconsistent results in this regard (at least by my standards) from the people I know who went through MD program.

I don't feel a 200k salary vs a 400k salary really matters compared to quality enjoyment and satisfaction of life. For the highest paying residencies, it is true that you have better odds with MD, but I think that link is actually a bit spurious. The main thing most residencies care about are board scores, and only super smart people get high board scores. The super smart people are normally in MD schools, and thus MD 4th years have better test scores than DO 4th years, which allows them to get the coveted residency spots.

Every residency I potentially want to go to is accessible to me with the path I'm taking, so I feel all around pretty good about my choice. Ultimately my main advice for anyone pondering this question is to think the whole process and path through, from the start to the very end, rather than just stopping at say "which will get me into best residency."

Where did you read point #1?

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Where did you read point #1?

Right... The DOs I shadowed were miserable lol.

 

[nilbog]

Long story short: go where you will be happy, MD or DO. If you're happy, you'll study better, learn more, and be a better doctor!

 

[235009]

1) Better quality of life. DOs practice longer, are happier and have lower suicide rates. I have met a lot of successful MDs who are not happy about their lives; this has never been my experience with DOs.
I have also found the DO community to be more friendly collaborative and relaxed than the MD one.
2) I think OMM is very valuable. It helped me a lot, I have seen it make big improvements for patients who otherwise could not be helped, and it is something I would enjoy practicing.
3) Being able to accurately diagnose patients and ideally treat them without referrals is very important to me. I feel DO schools, at least the one I am going to do a very good job at this. I have seen extremely inconsistent results in this regard (at least by my standards) from the people I know who went through MD program.

I don't feel a 200k salary vs a 400k salary really matters compared to quality enjoyment and satisfaction of life. For the highest paying residencies, it is true that you have better odds with MD, but I think that link is actually a bit spurious. The main thing most residencies care about are board scores, and only super smart people get high board scores. The super smart people are normally in MD schools, and thus MD 4th years have better test scores than DO 4th years, which allows them to get the coveted residency spots.

Every residency I potentially want to go to is accessible to me with the path I'm taking, so I feel all around pretty good about my choice. Ultimately my main advice for anyone pondering this question is to think the whole process and path through, from the start to the very end, rather than just stopping at say "which will get me into best residency."

This is one of the most ludicrous posts I've ever read on sdn. You literally have no clue what you're talking about. A few points....

1. Talk about not looking past med school and residency. There is nothing different about everyday practice of medicine between MD and DO in the same specialty. Something like 90% of physicians in the US are MDs. The fact that you made this kind of generalization about this group is staggering and you'll be working with many/mostly MDs.

2. if OMM was that helpful we'd all be learning it and the DOs who practice would actually use it. Hardly any DOs do because they recognize it is very limited and know that the evidence behind it is weak.

3. This is the most ridiculous argument. One thing u learn in med school is when to ask for help and same goes for being a PCP. If the patient is too complicated, you have no idea what's wrong with them or their disease is hard to manage you refer them or else you are doing them a disservice!

Finally you're absolutely wrong about board scores. A US MD with the same board score as a DO will do way better in the match and have way more options. That's true for every single score in every single specialty (expect maybe PMR). You also clearly don't realize that when someone talks about match outcomes they are talking about WHERE people go not WHAT specialty they chose though you also have more options in the latter with MD.

Sorry you made such an uninformed choice ....assuming you actually would have had an option.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

I don't feel a 200k salary vs a 400k salary really matters compared to quality enjoyment and satisfaction of life.

Not when one has over 300+k student loan to pay back...

 

[Lycian]

Look, I realize this is a very sensitive subject for a lot of people. I tried to limit this to the assertions I felt were less controversial, but DO vs. MD is basically always going to be a polarizing subject. Some people who go the DO route think it doesn't matter, some think it's better, some think it's worse. There are reasons for each. In most regards MD and DO are the same and I would have been super happy with either. However for me DO was clearly preferable and I still have no doubt in my mind about that decision.

I did a lot of research over 4 years before I made my decision, and was fortunate to have access to very good resources for exploring this question. If you have any questions for me I'm happy to answer them via PM.

 

[Buffalosoldier8]

Hey Everyone. Saw this thread and have a similar, but rather different situation. Not sure about the etiquette on posting here or starting a new thread, but here's my situation and I would love some solid advise especially from those of you who have been down the residency road already. I am premed who recently accepted to two pretty good master programs (1 is a true SMP at BU, the other is a masters at JHU) I was super pumped about them knowing either way I can bust my butt and have a good chance a acceptance to a school I'm excited about. Here's the wrench in my plan. Yesterday I was accepted (last minute) to Touro NY program.
Option 1: Decline Touro, retake MCAT (3rd time b/c it last score expired this year), stick with masters program, accrue ~$70,000 of debt, wait 1 year to apply with no guarantee but a solid shot
Option 2: Accept Touro and start med school, but potentially be unhappy because I fear my residency opportunities may be somewhat-severely limited (horror stories from above posts) and I wasn't super-duper impressed with facilities.

I have some interest in primary care/EM/IM so I know that's great for DO, but when I get to school I could totally change my mind and be screwed if I want to go into something competitive. And I know where you go to residency determines a lot about where you practice and your salary in future (is this accurate?). I'm also super interested in lifestyle specialties. I want to be able to play as hard as I work eventually.

Advise please? Gotta make a crucial decision soon.

 

[el_duderino]

I think that giving up your only acceptance for a shot at something better is a dangerous, dangerous game.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

A bird in the hand is greater than two in the bush.

 

[cliquesh]

Hey Everyone. Saw this thread and have a similar, but rather different situation. Not sure about the etiquette on posting here or starting a new thread, but here's my situation and I would love some solid advise especially from those of you who have been down the residency road already. I am premed who recently accepted to two pretty good master programs (1 is a true SMP at BU, the other is a masters at JHU) I was super pumped about them knowing either way I can bust my butt and have a good chance a acceptance to a school I'm excited about. Here's the wrench in my plan. Yesterday I was accepted (last minute) to Touro NY program.
Option 1: Decline Touro, retake MCAT (3rd time b/c it last score expired this year), stick with masters program, accrue ~$70,000 of debt, wait 1 year to apply with no guarantee but a solid shot
Option 2: Accept Touro and start med school, but potentially be unhappy because I fear my residency opportunities may be somewhat-severely limited (horror stories from above posts) and I wasn't super-duper impressed with facilities.

I have some interest in primary care/EM/IM so I know that's great for DO, but when I get to school I could totally change my mind and be screwed if I want to go into something competitive. And I know where you go to residency determines a lot about where you practice and your salary in future (is this accurate?). I'm also super interested in lifestyle specialties. I want to be able to play as hard as I work eventually.

Advise please? Gotta make a crucial decision soon.

Your salary is not related to the quality of your residency program; it's related to the speciality of medicine you practice. A john hopkins trained internal medicine doctor, for instance, will get paid the same as a community hospital trained IM doctor.

Going to a good residency will, however, help you get a competitive fellowship, which will mean more money.

 

[235009]

Hey Everyone. Saw this thread and have a similar, but rather different situation. Not sure about the etiquette on posting here or starting a new thread, but here's my situation and I would love some solid advise especially from those of you who have been down the residency road already. I am premed who recently accepted to two pretty good master programs (1 is a true SMP at BU, the other is a masters at JHU) I was super pumped about them knowing either way I can bust my butt and have a good chance a acceptance to a school I'm excited about. Here's the wrench in my plan. Yesterday I was accepted (last minute) to Touro NY program.
Option 1: Decline Touro, retake MCAT (3rd time b/c it last score expired this year), stick with masters program, accrue ~$70,000 of debt, wait 1 year to apply with no guarantee but a solid shot
Option 2: Accept Touro and start med school, but potentially be unhappy because I fear my residency opportunities may be somewhat-severely limited (horror stories from above posts) and I wasn't super-duper impressed with facilities.

I have some interest in primary care/EM/IM so I know that's great for DO, but when I get to school I could totally change my mind and be screwed if I want to go into something competitive. And I know where you go to residency determines a lot about where you practice and your salary in future (is this accurate?). I'm also super interested in lifestyle specialties. I want to be able to play as hard as I work eventually.

Advise please? Gotta make a crucial decision soon.

Would be nice to have a little more info like what your first two MCAT scores were and how many times and to how many US MD programs you've applied. My gut feeling from the information you've presented is to say take the Touro acceptance since it sounds like you've given it a fairly good decent shot. That being said the JHU masters is useless.

 

[Dr. Zombie]

Would be nice to have a little more info like what your first two MCAT scores were and how many times and to how many US MD programs you've applied. My gut feeling from the information you've presented is to say take the Touro acceptance since it sounds like you've given it a fairly good decent shot. That being said the JHU masters is useless.

MD acceptance > DO acceptance > SMP

 

[Buffalosoldier8]

3.5 sGPA, 3.6cGPA, 32 MCAT, good ex curr and letters I think. Why would you say JHU Masters is useless?

 

[Buffalosoldier8]

I would really to come back to the west coast, but I didn't look like many residency programs (more competitive ones) took any DOs. Is that just a result of sampling error, regional bias, or a reality that DOs just don't get into more competitive programs?

Should I even be worried about residency at this point? Especially with ACGME/AOA merger?

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

3.5 sGPA, 3.6cGPA, 32 MCAT, good ex curr and letters I think. Why would you say JHU Masters is useless?

It'd be a waste of money as you'd never use the degree or training.

And yah, you'd have a shot at MD. But plenty of people with your stats get rejected. So really unless you're pushing hard towards ultra competitive subspecialties it may be new to take the acceptance.

 

[Buffalosoldier8]

It'd be a waste of money as you'd never use the degree or training.

And yah, you'd have a shot at MD. But plenty of people with your stats get rejected. So really unless you're pushing hard towards ultra competitive subspecialties it may be new to take the acceptance.

I'm honestly not sure what I'm pushing for. I think some of the surg subspecialties are awesome but I don't know if that's for me. On the other hand I do like the E-R.O.A.D specialities since I want a good lifestyle and I know optho and derm are super competitive.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

With a 3.6 he should avoid SMPs like hellfire.

 

[235009]

3.5 sGPA, 3.6cGPA, 32 MCAT, good ex curr and letters I think. Why would you say JHU Masters is useless?

Your stats are way better than I thought they would be. How many times have you applied? Did you make any glaring errors in your last app cycle like submitting the primary or secondaries late? Applying to too few programs or too many reaches? Any red flags in your app? Are you from a state that's disadvantageous like CA? At this point I think your stats are set. The chance of getting a significantly better MCAT score on your third try is slim.

Your stats aren't the kind of stats that an smp can help. Those are for people with low gpa and high MCAT and as someone mentioned it's a huge and expensive gamble.

The masters at jhu is just a cash cow for the school (assuming we're not talking abt a public health degree) but either way that won't help you get into med school.

This is very tough. Being a US MD grad is a huge leg up no matter which specialty you want to do. Don't let anyone on SDN convince you that the playing field is even everywhere other than the ultra competitive specialties. Feel free to PM me if you're uncomfortable answering the above questions here.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I mean a 3.5/32 isn't exactly a 100% for MD either tbh. And even then there's always DO residencies for residencies that are too competitive for DOs.

So you know... bird and a bush..

 

[user3]

I'm honestly not sure what I'm pushing for. I think some of the surg subspecialties are awesome but I don't know if that's for me. On the other hand I do like the E-R.O.A.D specialities since I want a good lifestyle and I know optho and derm are super competitive.

If you've applied repeatedly unsuccessfully to MD then I think you should just take touro. Risk/reward ratio of your plan B is not worthwhile

 

[Jumpstartmy5HT]

Hey Everyone. Saw this thread and have a similar, but rather different situation. Not sure about the etiquette on posting here or starting a new thread, but here's my situation and I would love some solid advise especially from those of you who have been down the residency road already. I am premed who recently accepted to two pretty good master programs (1 is a true SMP at BU, the other is a masters at JHU) I was super pumped about them knowing either way I can bust my butt and have a good chance a acceptance to a school I'm excited about. Here's the wrench in my plan. Yesterday I was accepted (last minute) to Touro NY program.
Option 1: Decline Touro, retake MCAT (3rd time b/c it last score expired this year), stick with masters program, accrue ~$70,000 of debt, wait 1 year to apply with no guarantee but a solid shot
Option 2: Accept Touro and start med school, but potentially be unhappy because I fear my residency opportunities may be somewhat-severely limited (horror stories from above posts) and I wasn't super-duper impressed with facilities.

I have some interest in primary care/EM/IM so I know that's great for DO, but when I get to school I could totally change my mind and be screwed if I want to go into something competitive. And I know where you go to residency determines a lot about where you practice and your salary in future (is this accurate?). I'm also super interested in lifestyle specialties. I want to be able to play as hard as I work eventually.

Advise please? Gotta make a crucial decision soon.

I think if I were in your position, I would just go to Touro NY.

Giving up the acceptance is a risky move on its own. You're also adding another 70k in debt. In addition, you're adding a year where you won't be making any money. So really, the amount of $$ you waste is way more than 70k. It's 70k plus interest plus what you could be making as a doctor.