• Please review the updated member agreement. Included is a new statement supporting the scientific method and evidence-based medicine. Claims or statements about disease processes should reference widely accepted scientific resources. Theoretical medical speculation is encouraged as part of the overall scientific process. However, unscientific statements that promote unfounded ideological positions or agendas may be removed.

IlianaSedai

Senior Member
7+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Nov 9, 2002
325
4
www.silklantern.com
Status
As stated in subject, I see lists and lists of EM electives, but I know very little about each one. I'd like to take one at home and one away.

At this point, I really want to know what you found to be a good place with good teaching and student support -- not necessarily Top 5/famous/most respected. If you had a very positive EM student elective at a given institution, can you please share?
 
  • Like
Reactions: KansasDoc93

DrQuinn

My name is Neo
Moderator Emeritus
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Dec 6, 2000
4,227
16
Wisconsin
Visit site
Status
I did a rotation at a EM residency in Philadelphia, as well as the University of Maryland.

UM's student rotation is topnotch IMHO. They have student lectures, separate from grand rounds, where it is just an attending and all 5-6 students rotating that month. They also have splint labs, cadaver labs, etc JUST for the students. Every month! Their Grand Rounds are great, their attendings are awesome...

It was a GREAT month. I ended up ranking UM #2.

Cannot say enough about the student rotation and their program!

Q, DO
 
  • Like
Reactions: Osteoth

double shot

Junior Member
15+ Year Member
Mar 5, 2004
5
3
Visit site
Status
I would suggest doing an away rotation somewhere that you are interested in doing residency. I found that doing an away rotation at a program really helped. I did 4 EM away rotations this year and enjoyed all of them. I don't know if any of the places I went are places you are interested in, but I will give you a quick blurb on each.

UT southwestern (Dallas)- I loved being in the Parkland ED. It is very busy and students get to do a lot. Most days there is a 3rd year resident on a teaching rotation who is there to see patients with the students and teach students. The faculty were excellent and very eager to teach and help you in any way. My medical school does not have an EM program so the faculty at Parkland were great as advisors. During the rotation, students do 12 -12hr shifts and attend student lectures once a week.

UC Davis (Sacramento) - I also enjoyed UC Davis. THe ED there was not as busy as Parkland, but the faculty were great. During the student rotation there are 14 shifts (some 12, some10, some 8) and you rotate in the main ED, urgent care, and pedi ED.

UC Irvine (EM ultrasound) - great rotation for learning US. I did not do a regular ED rotation there, but I highly recommend the ED US rotation. The US faculty (Chris Fox) is great and I learned a ton about doing ultrasound in just one month. This rotation is also more laid back than a core ED rotation.

THe other place I rotated was the Pedi ED at Kosair (university of Louisville's childrens hospital). It was a good rotation, but it is put on by the pedi department so is not the best rotation for getting letters and meeting residents and faculty.

One last thought. I didn't rotate at Christiana in Delaware, but I was very impressed by the program at my interview and heard that they provide housing for rotating students.
 
About the Ads

IlianaSedai

Senior Member
7+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Nov 9, 2002
325
4
www.silklantern.com
Status
double shot said:
I did 4 EM away rotations this year and enjoyed all of them.
Whoa... isn't that sort of a lot?

Quinn, where in Philadelphia did you do your rotation, and did you have a good experience there?

I may be interested in rotating in San Francisco area at Highland and/or Stanford, but I've read the reviews at scutwork.com and they seem to say that Highland at least may not be friendly to students. Can anyone who's rotated there share their experience?

Thanks a bunch, guys. Keep it coming. I'll read up on those you mentioned.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Osteoth

Dr. Cowboy

Member
7+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Apr 13, 2003
54
0
Oklahoma
Visit site
Status
I did a month in Charlotte and think it is a great student rotation. You work about 15 shifts in one of the 3 areas of the ED. Student classes/procedure lectures ~3x/week. Everyone gets a letter from the med ed director. You get to fly if you want to. Charlotte is a great town with something always going on. I would recommend this rotation to anyone because the attendings are incredible (esp. Marx) teachers and like to teach "on the fly" while checking out your patients.
 

NinerNiner999

Senior Member
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Nov 5, 2003
1,516
229
Where it's at.
Status
Attending Physician
Christiana was incredible. There are 45 residents there to help you, they are all super cool and friendly, the ED is top notch, and the attendings are great. 150k+ patient volume between 2 ED's and just about as much trauma as you could ever want. Excellent pathology, high acuity. They put you up for the month in the Hilton, free of charge, and at then end, you will get a letter from Christiana, which will help you immensly anywhere you apply. 18 8-hr shifts in all areas of the ED, no nights, no end of rotation test. Can't say it enough - a great month as a student.

South Florida was fun. New program with eager residents and awesome faculty. 14-18 8 hour shifts, all hours. High volume, great pathology, high acuity. The city of Tampa can't be beat during the down time. The end of rotation test there was very tough in my opinion and the reading material they give students is a 2-inch thick book of journal and textbook articles, but no hint as to where the questions will come from. No student lectures. Teaching was great there and I really had a blast.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Osteoth and YNWA777

SewerRat

Member
7+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Nov 27, 2003
45
0
Visit site
Status
IlianaSedai said:
Whoa... isn't that sort of a lot?

Quinn, where in Philadelphia did you do your rotation, and did you have a good experience there?

I may be interested in rotating in San Francisco area at Highland and/or Stanford, but I've read the reviews at scutwork.com and they seem to say that Highland at least may not be friendly to students. Can anyone who's rotated there share their experience?

Thanks a bunch, guys. Keep it coming. I'll read up on those you mentioned.
I rotated over at Highland and loved it. Very active residents and I have friends in S.F. However, two of my very good friends rotated over there around the same time I did and absolutely hated it. I think they clashed with some of the personalities there. I ended up being the only one out of the three of us to rank them in my top 5. Good program, apparently just not for everyone.
 

beyond all hope

Senior Member
7+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Dec 18, 2003
623
7
46
Visit site
Status
Jacobi in NYC was a great first EM rotation for me because they pretty much let you care for your patients by yourself. Great pathology, volume, trauma as well. The teaching was average because there aren't many attendings and too many patients. The letter I got was incredible - every interview I got they mentioned by letter from Jacobi.
 

Hercules

Son of Zeus
15+ Year Member
20+ Year Member
Jul 25, 2000
1,329
345
41
Mobile, AL
Status
Attending Physician
Has anyone done an away rotation at Vandy?
 

southerndoc

life is good
Moderator Emeritus
Lifetime Donor
15+ Year Member
Jun 6, 2002
12,321
1,398
Atlanta
Status
Attending Physician
Hercules said:
Has anyone done an away rotation at Vandy?
Yep, it was awesome. You'll receive about 100 hours of lecture during your month there, including several labs (casting, suturing, procedures, etc.). Wrenn and Slovis are awesome. Both will give a daily lecture or two (the rest of the lectures are given by other faculty members).

You'll be handed "the phone book" and will be expected to read it. Basically it's about 600 pages of lecture notes printed on both sides of the page. An EXCELLENT thing for someone considering EM. In fact, I'm rereading the stuff prior to the start of residency because the stuff in there is that good.

You'll work only 12 8-hr shifts if my memory serves me correctly. The majority of my shifts were in the peds ED. I only had one night shift, but none of the other students in my group had any night shifts. You're given the option of riding with EMS or LifeFlight for one shift (so you'd only do 11 ED shifts). LifeFlight only accepts riders during a certain time of the year (I think October through April?).

The away rotation there was very good. I thoroughly enjoyed it. Unfortunately, Vandy does NOT provide housing. I spent nearly $2,000 to lease a furnished apartment for a month. Do keep that in mind when you sign up for the rotation. It's a jamup rotation, but expensive to find housing.
 

palmettobay

Junior Member
7+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Jan 10, 2004
11
0
Visit site
Status
A good rotation experience is obviously key, but I would also highly recommend doing an elective at one of the programs you're most interested in. For the most competitive programs, of which Highland is one, having rotated there will definitely help your chances of getting an interview/matching.
 

FoughtFyr

SDN Lifetime Donor
Lifetime Donor
15+ Year Member
Mar 19, 2003
2,215
26
Status
Post Doc
Resurrection in Chicago.

I loved it!!!

I didn't expect to, but there are several things that make that ED great to learn in. The acuity is very high (I had more than a few shifts with multiple intense ICU pts. at one time including one shift with 2 separate PE patients given TPA in the ED), the nursing and support staff are fantastic, and the attendings love to teach. It was GREAT!

The bonus is their residents are all happy, which to me is always a good sign! :thumbup:

Anyway, just my $0.02 (actual cash value $0.005),

- H
 

Virion

Junior Member
7+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
May 19, 2003
17
1
Visit site
Status
Rotated at Denver Health Medical Center. Great experience. Students get at least an hour of small group education with attendings every day you work a shift! That does not count the student lectures, or grand rounds. Good student labs, suturing, splinting etc. Good amount of autonomy. Lots of lacs, splints etc...

Enough time off to enjoy CO as well.
Good Luck,
V
 
  • Like
Reactions: Osteoth
About the Ads

aliraja

Troublemaker
Lifetime Donor
15+ Year Member
Oct 18, 2001
212
2
Boston
twitter.com
Status
Attending Physician
UNC - an amazing month! The attendings were great teachers, the city is a lot of fun during your off time (and there's more than enough of it), and the other students and residents totally took me in. And, even though I didn't get one, I heard another guy got a rec letter from Tintinalli... which probably came in handy :)
 

Flipchick

Member
7+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Mar 13, 2003
55
2
Status
I'd highly recommend Hennepin County Medical Center in Minneapolis, MN. It's one of the best EDs in the country. The attendings and residents were great, you'll see a ton of trauma, plus, a good LOR from the attendings there carry a lot of weight.
 

RnB

Junior Member
7+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Nov 5, 2003
14
1
California
Visit site
Status
Hennepin County Medical Center in Minneapolis

Top notch! This was the rotation that made me decide for sure I wanted to do EM. Awesome faculty, diverse and well respected in the field. High volume, great variety, lots of trauma, diverse patient population. Residents are also fun to work with. Not a lot of hand-holding. Get to do a lot of hands on if you're comfortable. Great conferences.
:thumbup:
 
  • Like
Reactions: DrDrummer

Nof55

Member
7+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Mar 23, 2003
27
1
Visit site
Status
Hennepin County

Was not even thinking about EM until I rotated there. The Thursday conferences are exceptional as is the acuity, probably one of the best stabilization rooms in the country. You get to do a ton as a student, even the "very sick " patients that at other programs I was told to let a resident handle. Great procedure experience. Interesting to be in a place that you look something up in R&H or Rosen's and you find out a staff from that institution is the author and you can go talk to them about it.

Nof55
 
  • Like
Reactions: DrDrummer

Jeff698

EM/EMS nerd
15+ Year Member
Aug 11, 2000
1,998
15
Salado, Texas
Status
Attending Physician
I'm trying to sign up for a 4th year rotation in Albuquerque. Does anyone have any thoughts/experiences with this program they'd like to share?

Thanks,
Jeff
 

Joejitsu

Member
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Jun 6, 2000
61
1
Visit site
Status
I absolutely loved my ED rotation at Kern Medical Center. All the residents and attendings were really fun to work with. Since it was a smaller county hospital I got to do a lot of stuff that I probably would not have had the opportunity to do elsewhere. Also, it was cool to try to bone up on my spanish. Too many people crap on the program because it's in Bakersfield (despite the fact that 99% of those people have never even been to bakersfield for more than 1 day). After my great rotation I ended up ranking it #2 on my list.

Joe
 
  • Like
Reactions: Osteoth

Andy Kahn

Senior Member
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
May 2, 2003
103
0
41
Dallas, TX
www.andykahnmd.com
Status
double shot said:
I did 4 EM away rotations this year and enjoyed all of them.
IlianaSedai said:
Whoa... isn't that sort of a lot?QUOTE]

Yeah, I guess double shot and I did a ton of away rotations. We definitely wanted to do at least 2 EM rotations and since there is not an EM residency at UTMB, we wanted to do them all away. I wanted to do as much EM as possible and we were required to do a senior EM core rotation, an acting internship in whatever field we wanted, and some electives. I scheduled the Dallas rotation as my core EM, Louisville EM as my "elective," and Sacramento EM as my acting internship. When I saw that there was an EM ultrasound elective, I thought that would be a good elective that was related to EM and I could get credit for it since it was different from the other EM "elective" I scheduled.

In Dallas, I was very happy with the number of procedures I got to do. We did 12 12hr shifts from 7 to 7 (evenly split btwn days&nights and split btwn "medicine" and "surgery" sides). I went to a tox grand rounds and couple of tox morning rounds which were really good. The student rotation directors were great about offering to write SLORs. I asked other faculty for letters also. We stayed at my friend's apt so I don't know much about assistance with housing.

While double shot rotated in the pedi EM rotation at Louisville, I did the regular adult EM rotation at the University Hospital ED. They definitely allowed students to do a lot with the frequent traumas that come in which was my favorite part. The 8hr shifts on weekdays are from 8a-4p, 4p-12a, and 12a-8a (although I think I may be a little off since they had some overlap btwn shifts). Sat and Sun had 12 hr shifts from 8 to 8. We did 12 8hr shifts and 4 12hr shifts which was a total of 144 hrs (the same total as Dallas). I enjoyed the journal club which was at a faculty member's home. The PD offered to write me a SLOR so I was glad to let him do it. The student rotation director had mentioned on the first day that he would be happy to write a SLOR but I didn't work many shifts with him. We stayed at double shot's aunt/uncle's house so I don't know about whether they help with housing there either.

UC-Davis had 4 sections to their ED and we rotated through all of them (acute, pedi, subacute, fast track). I signed up for the "Acting Internship in EM" and double shot did the core EM there. The only difference was that those doing the AI had a few more shifts scheduled and we didn't have to show up to certain lectures (although there were only four that I could remember... 3 were the first day following orientation so I stayed anyway and the other was later on which I also decided to go to). I can't remember how many shifts I did, but it wasn't too bad but perhaps more than the previous two? Anyway, I found the pedi shifts to be very important for me b/c Dallas and Louisville have separate children's hospitals which have their own ED's so I did not get to treat kids during those rotations (although I could have asked to do a shift or 2 there had I thought about it). Also, most of us probably prefer trauma bays to the fast track, I got to learn more about rashes and other minor things that will prove useful. We only did 2 fast track shifts (10 or 12 hrs shifts I think), maybe 4 pedi shifts (I think those were 8 hr shifts), and several acute and subacute shifts (12 hr shifts?). The rotation director was a really cool guy (and all the chicks were in love w/ him) and he offered to write everyone a SLOR using a composite of the evals from the various faculty you worked with. They had an extensive housing list that we used, and we ended up living 2 blocks away for $350 that month with a really nice nurse.

UC-Irvine ultrasound is a nice laid back rotation with a high yield of learning. There is some good path that you will get to see. When things are slow, you can always scan somebody for educational purposes and there are plenty of pts with abdominal pain or vaginal bleeding and after a few days, you feel confident knowing what normal looks like and how to handle the probe and the various features of the machine. Every Friday afternoon you hang out with Fox and the fellow to review the scans from that week. They are good about pointing out things so that you start hearing them in your head the next time you scan so that you look for certain things or don't make the same mistakes. You just schedule some shifts with Dr. Fox and he's cool about letting you have days off for interviews and stuff. We had ultrasound journal club at Dr. Fox's house and had a journal club for the EM dept at the PD's house. They had a shorter list of housing available and the 2 people I called asked for $900 that month so I was fortunate to have a cousin who lived 30 mins away. There were some long commutes but I found that it was okay since I wasn't really exhausted after shifts (as compared to the usual EM core rotations).

Yeah, we did a ton of away rotations, but it was a lot fun. I mentioned all the major points but I put all my thoughts at http://geocities.com/andy_kahn_em/MS4.html
We learned a lot, made friends around the country, and it was a good way of seeing new places while rotating out there (pics at http://www.geocities.com/andykahn/MS4.html)

Good luck on where ever you end up doing your externships!

-ak
 

manny99

7+ Year Member
Oct 7, 2009
29
0
Status
Resident [Any Field]
Very helpful thread...anyone else wanna share their rotation experiences?
Thanks
 
About the Ads

e30ftw

peace
7+ Year Member
Feb 23, 2012
530
439
Status
Attending Physician
Yep, it was awesome. You'll receive about 100 hours of lecture during your month there, including several labs (casting, suturing, procedures, etc.). Wrenn and Slovis are awesome. Both will give a daily lecture or two (the rest of the lectures are given by other faculty members).

You'll be handed "the phone book" and will be expected to read it. Basically it's about 600 pages of lecture notes printed on both sides of the page. An EXCELLENT thing for someone considering EM. In fact, I'm rereading the stuff prior to the start of residency because the stuff in there is that good.

You'll work only 12 8-hr shifts if my memory serves me correctly. The majority of my shifts were in the peds ED. I only had one night shift, but none of the other students in my group had any night shifts. You're given the option of riding with EMS or LifeFlight for one shift (so you'd only do 11 ED shifts). LifeFlight only accepts riders during a certain time of the year (I think October through April?).

The away rotation there was very good. I thoroughly enjoyed it. Unfortunately, Vandy does NOT provide housing. I spent nearly $2,000 to lease a furnished apartment for a month. Do keep that in mind when you sign up for the rotation. It's a jamup rotation, but expensive to find housing.
this is either delightfully brilliant sarcasm or a level of devotion to didactics and student loans beyond my understanding.

$2k housing.. 12 8h peds shifts (lol?)... 600 page phonebook? 100 hours of lecture?? sweet merciful crap, shoot me now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: medzealot
Oct 22, 2012
34
0
Status
this is either delightfully brilliant sarcasm or a level of devotion to didactics and student loans beyond my understanding.

$2k housing.. 12 8h peds shifts (lol?)... 600 page phonebook? 100 hours of lecture?? sweet merciful crap, shoot me now.
Although it sounds pretty crazy, it is actually the exact same month that the interns do for their orientation month. You learn an unbelievable amount, and I honestly doubt that there is a better rotation in all of medical school across any specialty than this one for a 4th year student. Of course this last comment is extreme, and subject to lots and lots of argument, but my point is that it is an unbelievable month.

ONLY negative about it is that you actually do 11-12 6 hour shifts, which means its slightly difficult to get a great SLOR.

By the end of the month for the final you are managing a standardized and/or simulation patient that crashes while you get the history. You are responsible (and fully prepared) to run a full resuscitation on them starting with figuring out whats wrong and then treating accordingly. Not something I think many 4th year students can do.

Lots of teaching, yes, but trust me when I say I doubt there is a better way to spend a month no matter the cost.
 
Last edited:

Hercules

Son of Zeus
15+ Year Member
20+ Year Member
Jul 25, 2000
1,329
345
41
Mobile, AL
Status
Attending Physician
It's been about 8 years since I did it, but the Vandy rotation was phenomenal from a didactics standpoint. Maybe not quite as much experience clinically, but again awesome lectures. I would recommend making it your first or second rotation of 4th year and then doing a second ED rotation the month after it with a little more clinical time. It will give you a chance to put all that knowledge into practice and you'll look like an absolute stud on that 2nd rotation.
 

bad virus

10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Oct 14, 2008
691
8
Status
Pre-Medical
It's been about 8 years since I did it, but the Vandy rotation was phenomenal from a didactics standpoint. Maybe not quite as much experience clinically, but again awesome lectures. I would recommend making it your first or second rotation of 4th year and then doing a second ED rotation the month after it with a little more clinical time. It will give you a chance to put all that knowledge into practice and you'll look like an absolute stud on that 2nd rotation.
I'm here to join the slew of Vandy MS4 Rotation fans. This was literally the best rotation of medical school bar none. You come out leaps and bounds ahead of your pears from other programs after this rotation. I dare say that you are operating at the level of an intern in terms of knowledge or even maybe better (cuz you know how the last year goes).

Vandy makes a work of art out of their student rotation.

It cost me 750 for the room. 150-200 for food. 500 for plane tickets and they give you a free bike. Like the other poster said, the 6 hour shifts don't led them selves too well for a second SLOR but who needs one when they give you a great one anyway.
 

link2swim06

10+ Year Member
Dec 14, 2007
3,278
796
Status
Attending Physician
I'm here to join the slew of Vandy MS4 Rotation fans. This was literally the best rotation of medical school bar none. You come out leaps and bounds ahead of your pears from other programs after this rotation. I dare say that you are operating at the level of an intern in terms of knowledge or even maybe better (cuz you know how the last year goes).

Vandy makes a work of art out of their student rotation.

It cost me 750 for the room. 150-200 for food. 500 for plane tickets and they give you a free bike. Like the other poster said, the 6 hour shifts don't led them selves too well for a second SLOR but who needs one when they give you a great one anyway.
For those of us with below average step 1 scores, is it difficult get a spot to do an away for MS4?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Osteoth

engineeredout

10+ Year Member
May 11, 2008
3,447
609
Pennsylvania
Status
Attending Physician
University of Pittsburghs EM rotation was great. You are treated as a Sub-I so you see your own patients, present directly to your attending, and you get the procedures if your patient needs them. 2X a week you go to their massive sim lab where you run through cases with the other 5-6 students. I think it was 14 8hr shifts throughout the month. You make your schedule as long as you don't overlap the other students. Didn't have too many lectures or outside reading to do.
 

ccfccp

Stays crunchy in milk!
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Aug 12, 2007
530
43
Tourist Mecca, USA
Status
Attending Physician
I did my rotation's about 4-5 years ago, but I had very good experiences at both UT Southwestern and Indiana.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Osteoth
Feb 9, 2012
16
0
Status
Medical Student
Fresno was a great rotation! Seriously, great ED, great attendings, lots of sick patients to go around, you are part of codes, opportunities at procedures. Check it out!
 

fiznat

Senior Member
15+ Year Member
Mar 19, 2004
941
70
Status
Resident [Any Field]
Just wanted to bump this back to the top to solicit experiences from this season. Anyone have any stories to share?
 
About the Ads

Leonora

5+ Year Member
Dec 7, 2009
56
4
Status
Resident [Any Field]
I did rotations at Christiana and Stanford. Christiana has a cool set-up where you have a certain number of "teaching" shifts along with your normal shifts. During teaching shifts, third year residents are paired with you, and their sole job is to guide you through any procedures and help fine-tune your clinical thinking. They're not supposed to see patients of their own during teaching shifts, so they chill at the computers and you can go grab them whenever you have a question or want some advice. Students don't work any overnights, and housing is provided at a nearby hotel for all weekdays and for any weekend days when you work a shift.

Stanford had a really well-structured student rotation with a monthly suturing/splinting lab for students, daily reading assignments out of a great EM textbook that some of the Stanford attendings wrote, videotaped student lectures that you can watch on your own time to supplement resident lectures, and a required "interesting case" presentation to the clerkship director (who also writes your SLOE at the end). Final exam is made up of half a day of simulations (run by the clerkship director again) and a short exam from the readings.

Two really great programs. Both provide departmental SLOEs at the end. Feel free to PM if you want more details.
 

CremasterFlash

Born yesterday.
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
May 27, 2006
185
12
The Mothership.
Status
Resident [Any Field]
Hennepin is amazing.
 

gman33

Moderator Emeritus
10+ Year Member
Aug 18, 2007
2,188
498
Status
Attending Physician
Another vote for Christiana.
Great rotation on a number of levels.
Strong teaching emphasis.

That was probably the only rotation in med school when I was sad that it was over.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Osteoth

trackrunner321

7+ Year Member
Mar 8, 2011
17
10
Status
Attending Physician
Cook County has a great student rotation.
I also rotated at the University of Illinois in Peoria as well. The ED is brand new. The attendings are great and want to teach. It was a great experience.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Osteoth

namethatsmell

7+ Year Member
Sep 16, 2010
854
944
Mayo was terrific, way better than the two "powerhouse" EM places I rotated at. You're given a tremendous amount of autonomy as they let you place orders without needing a cosign but there's also a ton of bedside teaching that goes down. I got to do a good amount of procedures (reductions, crash intubation, lacs, etc) and there are also med student sim sessions which were extremely well run. They see crazy rare stuff (obviously) but also a ton of bread and butter stuff since its the only level one for a huge area. The faculty and residents are smart, friendly, and extremely down to earth without any pretensions. Learned more in my month there than in any other in med school.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Osteoth

namethatsmell

7+ Year Member
Sep 16, 2010
854
944
Should have clarified: you can place orders for labs, EKGs, imaging, etc but NOT meds.

Obviously you're running your plan by your attending/senior resident, but most were fine if I ordered labs to get things rolling when it was really busy and they wouldn't be able to hear about the patient for a while.
 
Sep 25, 2013
9
0
Status
Medical Student
Should have clarified: you can place orders for labs, EKGs, imaging, etc but NOT meds.

Obviously you're running your plan by your attending/senior resident, but most were fine if I ordered labs to get things rolling when it was really busy and they wouldn't be able to hear about the patient for a while.
Cook County was like this...
 

Belleza156

10+ Year Member
Jan 21, 2009
383
7
Status
Resident [Any Field]
St Lukes Hospital/Roosevelt Hospital in Manhattan, NY was great. They treat their residents and their med students really well. You aren't bogged down with too much academic lectures, and the ones you attend are really worth it. There is one on one attending time on every shift. They definitely dont just shoo you off with a resident and then leave you in the predicament of having to have an attending who you never presented to write your evaluations. You can get bedside teaching similar to IM rotations or you can have a lot of autonomy and do most things yourself (after you run it by the attending of course). It's basically what you are comfortable with. If you feel confident then you can do a lot, and if you need hand holding, then there are definitely attendings there who will walk you through slowly. It's basically a great place to go whether it's your first EM rotation or your third.

I wrote all this in comparison to the program I am currently rotating in (I obviously won't name it here). Now that I am doing a second rotation in EM, I had no idea how good I had it at SLR. Definitely, do a few rotation (2-3) so you can see how the students and residents are treated. You will see vast differences among programs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Osteoth

MSmentor018

Hooah!
10+ Year Member
Jul 9, 2007
1,202
243
it's always hot!
Status
Attending Physician
I did rotations at Christiana and Stanford. Christiana has a cool set-up where you have a certain number of "teaching" shifts along with your normal shifts.

Stanford had a really well-structured student rotation with a monthly suturing/splinting lab for students, .
yeah teaching shifts are the way to go. we had a lot of good feedback so now at USF we're incorporating it into the curriculum. the seniors do an 8 hr shift 1:1 with MS4's. mainly running around the ER peeking in on cool cases and doing procedures. it's nice to teach and be free from patient responsibilities !

also the ultrasound fellow does 1:1 ultrasound MS3 or MS4 teaching shift
 

The White Coat Investor

Practicing Doc and Blogger
Partner Organization
15+ Year Member
Nov 18, 2002
5,185
2,335
www.whitecoatinvestor.com
Status
Attending Physician
As stated in subject, I see lists and lists of EM electives, but I know very little about each one. I'd like to take one at home and one away.

At this point, I really want to know what you found to be a good place with good teaching and student support -- not necessarily Top 5/famous/most respected. If you had a very positive EM student elective at a given institution, can you please share?
As a general rule, your away rotation isn't about finding a great educational experience. It's about getting an honors, impressing the people there so you can match there, and getting a great SLOR. The sad, but honest truth. So when you're looking for an away, that's what you need to concentrate on. It's an audition, not a class.

So the best place for you would be one of the places you expect to rank within the top 3 or so of your list. It helps if it is a great program you might not otherwise get an interview with, since it is often easier to rotate at a place than to interview there.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Osteoth

fiznat

Senior Member
15+ Year Member
Mar 19, 2004
941
70
Status
Resident [Any Field]
As a general rule, your away rotation isn't about finding a great educational experience. It's about getting an honors, impressing the people there so you can match there, and getting a great SLOR. The sad, but honest truth. So when you're looking for an away, that's what you need to concentrate on. It's an audition, not a class.
How should current current 3rd year students take this advice in the context of the reviews we've seen about Vandy? It seems rotations at that program are praised for being exactly what you suggest they shouldn't be: an educational experience.

There are several, but here is one example from this thread:

...the Vandy rotation was phenomenal from a didactics standpoint. Maybe not quite as much experience clinically, but again awesome lectures. I would recommend making it your first or second rotation of 4th year and then doing a second ED rotation the month after it with a little more clinical time. It will give you a chance to put all that knowledge into practice and you'll look like an absolute stud on that 2nd rotation.
I'm genuinely curious. I was thinking about trying to get an early rotation here so I could benefit from their training.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Osteoth

TimesNewRoman

EM/CCM
7+ Year Member
May 14, 2013
2,878
2,989
Status
Attending Physician
I'm genuinely curious. I was thinking about trying to get an early rotation here so I could benefit from their training.
Per the residents at Vandy on interview, most people who rotate at Vandy end up lowering their stock w/r/t rank list. Might be educational, but you probably don't want a average/poor SLOR.

You'll learn what you need to learn in residency. Go somewhere you would want to go for residency.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Osteoth

The White Coat Investor

Practicing Doc and Blogger
Partner Organization
15+ Year Member
Nov 18, 2002
5,185
2,335
www.whitecoatinvestor.com
Status
Attending Physician
How should current current 3rd year students take this advice in the context of the reviews we've seen about Vandy? It seems rotations at that program are praised for being exactly what you suggest they shouldn't be: an educational experience.

There are several, but here is one example from this thread:



I'm genuinely curious. I was thinking about trying to get an early rotation here so I could benefit from their training.
Well, first of all Vandy is only going to take a certain amount of people rotating with them from July to October. Maybe what, 5 or 10 a month. So you can't all go there anyway.

Second, I have no problem with you learning a lot on an EM rotation. My suggestion is you take the mindset that you're going there to show what you already know, not to learn. Of course you're going to learn something too, but it's an audition. Everyone you interact with is looking at you and saying to themselves "Do I really want to work with this chump for the next 3 years?" Show up early, stay late, be social, be a strong student (what's that House of God rule?) etc. More than anything else, you need an honors out of that rotation. Because even if you don't go to Vandy, everyone else gets to see what Vandy thought about you....it's in the grade.

I'll tell you what I did. I did 3 EM rotations, one in the Spring of my third year at a community hospital/trauma center in the same town as my medical school. I learned a ton and cemented my desire to do EM. By April of 3rd year I knew what I wanted to do, which helps a lot compared to not knowing in September. I worked hard and must have impressed someone because I got an honors. The competition for honors, however, was lower than anywhere else because they just don't get that many students interested in EM. My second rotation, August of my fourth year was my home institution which at the time didn't have an EM program. This was primarily to get an honors and SLORs. My last rotation in September was at an away program. It was purely an audition rotation. It was a bit weird because it was a program I didn't want to go to, but because I had to go through the military match, I had to convince some military folks that I would be a great person to match into EM, even if I wanted to do a civilian program. The competition among students at this rotation was far higher than anywhere else. We knew we were going head to head and we hadn't known each other for 3 years already. In the end, I got honors in all 3 rotations and when combined with what must have been okay letters and stellar board scores, I could pretty much write my own ticket for interviews (I was invited to interview at 28/30 places I applied- screw you UNC and Madigan!) I had a friend, same school, similar background, similar board scores who got a "high pass" out of his rotation at the home institution. He was turned down for an interview by many places I got an interview at (basically every 3 year program out West) and ended up matching at a solid, but not particularly competitive, program in the Midwest. I think I ranked the program he went to 12th or something.

If I were a more typical med student, I'd do the same order, but replace that last rotation with someplace I really wanted to go, but thought I might not get an interview at. Then I'd bust my tail all month. A "high pass" isn't a death sentence, but don't pretend it doesn't matter.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Osteoth
Apr 11, 2013
27
0
Midwest
Status
Resident [Any Field]
I rotated at Penn State and had a good experience. Residents and faculty were great. Pathology was great. Best part was med students always check out directly to attendings and call consults.
 

joeDO2

7+ Year Member
May 18, 2010
556
67
Status
Resident [Any Field]
If I were a more typical med student, I'd do the same order, but replace that last rotation with someplace I really wanted to go, but thought I might not get an interview at. Then I'd bust my tail all month. A "high pass" isn't a death sentence, but don't pretend it doesn't matter.
Busting your tail on rotations is a bit of a mystery to me. I've heard advice to do this in the past but I'm really not exactly sure what it means. I'm certainly willing (and want to) work hard, however as a med student there is little that you can do to help the residents. Haven't been on EM yet so thats probably a little different but I feel like most everything medical students do actually creates more work or is at least neutral. I also feel like trying to do more than what is asked just ends up being annoying. My current strategy is just to do what I'm told to do and do it well. About maybe 2-3 times a shift I might ask if there is anything I can help with but beyond that I feel like there is not much more work to be done. I definitely do not feel like I'm being worked hard on any rotation so far.

Also, my school grades on a traditional letter system. Not sure how that will factor in with matching.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Osteoth
About the Ads