Where to apply? -- some really dumb questions, sorry and thank you!!!

[Cantal]

I'm a bit concerned -- we are required to meet with our IM medical student director to submit our "final list" on where we are going to apply. He stressed that we need to have 3 lists of schools:
1) "reach" schools
2) "good fit" schools
3) backup schools.

My stats are decent, but not AOA

Med school: top 5
not AOA
Basic sciences: honors in 8 of 9 courses
Clinical yrs: honors in 5 of 8 courses (not internal medicine)
Step 1: 261
LoRs are okay, nothing spectacular
Research in IM with 2 abstracts, no publications
MD only, nothing else special

Here were my general ideas right off the bat:
Reach schools: Hopkins, MGH, Brigham, UCSF, Penn, Duke, Columbia
Fit schools: Yale, WashU, Stanford, UCLA, UChicago, Northwestern, Emory
Backup: no clue what I should put here

Does this list look okay? Do I have too many "big name" programs and not enough "good fit" programs? Any advice for the "back up" schools? (as if there was such a thing as back up.. just matching is a great thing!!)


and how many programs do I list? Is 15 applications okay with like 7-8 interviews? I don't have much money to spend for interviews, but I'm on the east coast anyway so traveling around here will be easy and I actually sleep on the train ride over so I don't pay for hotels either (I know, I'm cheap..)

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[Auscultate]

I believe you'll do fine in the match - your stats are great. If you had gotten Honors in Medicine it would have been awesome - I would definitely try and aim for the Honors in your Medicine Sub-I.

I think you have a pretty good list of programs. Here's what I think:

REACH PROGRAMS: Hopkins, MGH, Brigham, UCSF
FIT PROGRAMS: Penn, Duke, Columbia, Cornell, Yale, BIDMC, WashU, Stanford, UCLA, UChicago, Northwestern, Emory
"BACKUP" PROGRAMS (East Coast): Brown, Maryland, Georgetown, Jefferson, NYU, Mt Sinai, Albert Einstein-NY
(Some of these so-called backups are still competitive but considering your stats from a "top 5" med school I think you'll be fine having them as backups).
Anyway, your advisor will also give you some input.

 

[VCMM414]

REACH PROGRAMS: Hopkins, MGH, Brigham, UCSF
FIT PROGRAMS: Penn, Duke, Columbia, Cornell, Yale, BIDMC, WashU, Stanford, UCLA, UChicago, Northwestern, Emory
"BACKUP" PROGRAMS (East Coast): Brown, Maryland, Georgetown, Jefferson, NYU, Mt Sinai, Albert Einstein-NY
(Some of these so-called backups are still competitive but considering your stats from a "top 5" med school I think you'll be fine having them as backups).
Anyway, your advisor will also give you some input.

I think Auscultate's list is too large; the OP doesn't need to apply to this many programs to have a successful match. 15 programs at the most.

IMO, of the programs listed, only Duke, Penn, Stanford, and Columbia convincingly belong to the "FIT PROGRAMS" category. Emory, Northwestern, and BIDMC, while all very good IM programs, do not possess the same level of competition. Yale, WashU, and UCLA are somewhere in-between.

I also would not apply to that many "BACKUP PROGRAMS." Choose one or two that are within driving distance so that you can save on travel while interviewing. Schedule them early to warm up your interview skills.

 

[Auscultate]

I think Auscultate's list is too large; the OP doesn't need to apply to this many programs to have a successful match. 15 programs at the most.

IMO, of the programs listed, only Duke, Penn, Stanford, and Columbia convincingly belong to the "FIT PROGRAMS" category. Emory, Northwestern, and BIDMC, while all very good IM programs, do not possess the same level of competition. Yale, WashU, and UCLA are somewhere in-between.

I also would not apply to that many "BACKUP PROGRAMS." Choose one or two that are within driving distance so that you can save on travel while interviewing. Schedule them early to warm up your interview skills.

I agree with you - I wasn't suggesting that the OP apply to all of those programs. Just a list from which to choose. For a US grad, applying to 10 to 15 programs is about right - although I will still err on the side of caution and apply to at least 15 initially (it's not that expensive with ERAS), and then after the invites for interviews choose the 7-10 programs you want to interview at.

 

[king_lizard]

So I guess you go to Penn, Harvard or Hopkins? If so, with your stats your home program should not be a total "reach" school. Your best shot is matching there (70% chance or better, barring no red flags).

Remember that the main obstacle is getting an interview. That's why I still advise people to apply to at least 15 programs in the beginning, because you don't know where and what region of the country you'll land interviews.

Even if you're a great student coming from a top med school, getting an interview at UCSF, MGH, BWH, JHU, even Penn these days is 50/50. Many of the other programs on your list will invite you to interview. But keep in mind that this process is very random. Don't be shocked if some of those elite programs invite you while your classmates with better stats don't, and vice versa.

Most people in IM, once they get through interviews, match into one of their top 2 choices, especially coming from a top 5 med school. Honor that subi, get a great letter or two from it, and APPLY EARLY.

I'm a bit concerned -- we are required to meet with our IM medical student director to submit our "final list" on where we are going to apply. He stressed that we need to have 3 lists of schools:
1) "reach" schools
2) "good fit" schools
3) backup schools.

My stats are decent, but not AOA

Med school: top 5
not AOA
Basic sciences: honors in 8 of 9 courses
Clinical yrs: honors in 5 of 8 courses (not internal medicine)
Step 1: 261
LoRs are okay, nothing spectacular
Research in IM with 2 abstracts, no publications
MD only, nothing else special

Here were my general ideas right off the bat:
Reach schools: Hopkins, MGH, Brigham, UCSF, Penn, Duke, Columbia
Fit schools: Yale, WashU, Stanford, UCLA, UChicago, Northwestern, Emory
Backup: no clue what I should put here

Does this list look okay? Do I have too many "big name" programs and not enough "good fit" programs? Any advice for the "back up" schools? (as if there was such a thing as back up.. just matching is a great thing!!)


and how many programs do I list? Is 15 applications okay with like 7-8 interviews? I don't have much money to spend for interviews, but I'm on the east coast anyway so traveling around here will be easy and I actually sleep on the train ride over so I don't pay for hotels either (I know, I'm cheap..)

 

[Cantal]

Wow, this is all great advice! Thank you Auscultate for that list of schools -- I had no clue how I was going to come up with that "back up" list.

And VCMM and King Lizard -- I really appreciate the candid advice re: the top programs. It sounds like it's a lot like med school: when I applied for med school, I got in to 2 or 3 of the top 10, but didn't even get an interview at 5 of the other top 10 schools, so I definitely can appreciate the randomness and that there is no such thing as a "shoe in" at any top program

Thanks again!

 

[duncan11]

First, I am not sure how you did not get AOA unless a really large % of people get honors in a given course/rotation. Those seem like some really impressive stats.

Second, with the stats you've given us, I think that there is nowhere that is a reach school for you. This is based on my experiences interviewing this year. Unless you have some blemishes on your record unmentioned, I would think you will get interviews at more or less all those programs and match at a MGH/BWH kind of place if you so choose.

 

[EaglesPA]

First, I am not sure how you did not get AOA unless a really large % of people get honors in a given course/rotation. Those seem like some really impressive stats.

Second, with the stats you've given us, I think that there is nowhere that is a reach school for you. This is based on my experiences interviewing this year. Unless you have some blemishes on your record unmentioned, I would think you will get interviews at more or less all those programs and match at a MGH/BWH kind of place if you so choose.

I agree that with the 261 Step I, several Honors in the third year and being from a top 5 med school it's very likely he'll match at MGH/BWH/Hopkins/UCSF/ Penn/Duke/Columbia-type program if (s)he chooses. However, as someone has already mentioned, the hardest part is getting the interview - and it can seem a bit random at times. If (s)he had gotten Honors in IM I would say (s)he is probably a lock but since (s)he didn't, (s)he still needs to apply to all those programs and some backups and then (s)he can decide which ones to interview at. Definitely aim for the Honors in the Medicine Sub-I and get a great letter from that.

 

[Cantal]

hey! I'm actually not sure if I've gotten AOA yet or not.. I just assumed no because we have such an amazing class, but I don't know when it's announced exactly...

and thanks for all the positive feedback! I don't know how much the no AOA and the high pass in internal medicine will hurt me, but I definitely will take the advice to apply to some of the top schools. I think after 4 rough yrs of med school, an "easier" residency like upenn or brigham seems more appealing to me than hopkins, but like everyone is echoing here, the interview process will probably be very random

Thanks again for the advice!

 

[king_lizard]

btw, some programs like the Brigham seem to use a formula that if you're not in the top % of your class, regardless of what medical school you come from (except harvard of course), you won't get an interview. i think it's kind of ridiculous, but that's the game.

also some programs will automatically exclude you if you don't get honors in 3rd year medicine. Don't sweat it though.

My predictions (i could be totally off): You'll land interviews at Penn, Columbia, and probably MGH. You might not get invites from Brigham and UCSF. Especially UCSF, given the no honors in medicine, you're from an east coast school (unless you're from harvard or yale, which they seem to favor), and they're just plain old stingy with interviews.

Every other program should be wide open for you. Also think about putting UW on your radar.

hey! I'm actually not sure if I've gotten AOA yet or not.. I just assumed no because we have such an amazing class, but I don't know when it's announced exactly...

and thanks for all the positive feedback! I don't know how much the no AOA and the high pass in internal medicine will hurt me, but I definitely will take the advice to apply to some of the top schools. I think after 4 rough yrs of med school, an "easier" residency like upenn or brigham seems more appealing to me than hopkins, but like everyone is echoing here, the interview process will probably be very random

Thanks again for the advice!