Where to begin?

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Q: If you attend a medical school in Australia, as an international student, are you guaranteed residency there?

Q: What are my chances of being accepted?

Q: Are they still accepting application for the 2010 cycle?

Any websites, blogs, or forums that you can direct me that provides further information for someone like me?

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[JanikeyDoc]

Australian schools weigh your MCAT and your interview score the highest. They take you cumulative GPA and if it meets their cut off your fine, usually that cutoff is about 2.7 for most schools.

You are not guaranteed a residency as an international student. Right now some stay and some go home. Even for locals, its not guaranteed that they will get into residency programs. Fyi the number of students starting medical school this year doubled from four years ago.

 

[Transition]

don't listen to janikeydoc

he is a horrendous troll on these boards

read the threads below keeping janikeydoc's position on this forum in mind.

as a whole, though, he speaks the truth in that there has been a staggering growth in undergrad and gemp-entry meds in Aus. This does not mean it's impossible to get internship, but it will be difficult. There are lots of options.

So, to answer your questions:

1) no, you're not guaranteed anything. neither are the locals, though. just make sure you do your research and apply to areas that you know you'll have at least a chance against the locals (I've been reading and absorbing knowledge for 10 months straight now to understand the prospects i have in Aus).

2)your chances of 2010 entry are probably near 0 right now. The problem is that ACER (like OMSAS or AMCAS for ozzies) is closed. So that cuts off schools like Monash or USyd which only allow internationals to apply through ACER. Flinders is closed to direct apps and Wollongong may still accept an app but it's very late in the cycle now. UQ may take your app, but they need an MCAT of ~30 and won't look at you til you have that under your belt. Deakin is the same and so is ANU. All of these schools recommend you do your MCAT in May so you can apply in June and applying anywhere beyond that is too late. But, look into these schools anyways. I've just told you all the GEMP schools (graduate-entry medical program) that accept internationals so that should get you started.

3) see 2.


google "paging dr"

that's the aussie version of studentdoc

 

[shan564]

I'm usually as hard on Janikey as the next guy, but in this case, he actually contributed useful information (although with a negative spin).

The admissions vary from school to school. I'll summarize your chances at each one:

1. USyd - Admissions are based on MCAT and interview, as long as your GPA is above 2.7. If you get a 31-32 on the MCAT, you have a decent chance... although I do know one person who got in with a 29 and a great interview.

2. UQ - Admissions are based entirely on MCAT, as long as your GPA is above 2.7. Last year, a couple of people got in with a 28 (I think) because they applied early... but there might be more applicants next year.

3. Wollongong - Admissions are based on a combination of GPA, MCAT, interview, and "portfolio" (in essence, your CV). Also, they expect you to have a dedication to rural health. There are a lot of factors here, but you might be able to get in despite your low MCAT projection if you have a lot of rural experience.

4. Most other schools (Flinders, Monash, Melbourne, etc.) - Admissions are based on a combination of GPA, MCAT, and interview. You can make up for your MCAT with your interview if you're spectacular, but again, you'll be severely crippled. Also, most of these schools accept very few international students (Flinders accepts a decent amount), so their admissions cutoffs are likely to change heavily from year to year depending on the class size.

If you get anything less than a 28 on the MCAT, the Caribbean is probably your only option.

I do have some good news for you - most of the Australian schools will only look at the GPA from your last 3 years. That means that your 2.47 will be disregarded, and you might have a shot at the schools where the GPA is a factor in the admissions process.

Still, if you want to have a reasonable shot at getting into an Aussie school, you should work extra hard on your MCAT prep. A 24 simply won't cut it. Most schools require that you have at least 8 on every section (and "M" on the writing) before they'll even look at your application. I'd be uncomfortable with anything less than a 30, but a 28-29 might get you in somewhere if you apply early enough.

 

[brushbordermb]

Hi guys,

Thanks for the quick replies. I still have a month for the MCAT, so hopefully I can break a 30 (I'm studying pretty hard). I will probably have more questions in about a month.

 

[Meddie83]

Also, there is no rush for you to write the MCAT. You've miss the application cycle for 2010 and therefore will have to wait until this time next year. Take your time and do the MCAT right.

 

[SFs Own Tone]

I've spoken to OzTrekk about applying to UQ this year (sitting for the MCAT July 31st) and its still possible to get an acceptance for their 2010 enrollment. Good luck on the MCAT!

 

[brushbordermb]

So I did my MCAT. And I'm just waiting to see how it went. I think the PS and BS were good, God Willingly. But I'm not sure about VR. I had a lot of trouble reading, which I usually don't. So my question is, if you write the MCAT 3 times, is that consider bad for most Australian schools. Thanks.

 

[shan564]

Unlike American schools, most Australian admissions are 100% objective. Nothing is "considered good" or "considered bad"... it's either "good" or "bad" according to their admissions algorithm. I don't know of any schools that consider the number of times you take the MCAT - I'm pretty sure they'll just look at the scores. That's especially true for UQ; they've been relatively lenient with regard to their MCAT requirements in recent years (they require that you take the test in the last 2 years and get an 8 on every section, but I've seen them make exceptions).

Now, if you do take the MCAT again, I wouldn't expect that you'll get your scores in time for the 2010 cycle.

 

[brushbordermb]

I thought the 2010 cycle was over, except for UQ?

 

[Daemos]

K I now have evidence, UQ is definately a rolling admissions TRUE. As long as you meet the 8/8/8/M and GPA cut off you WILL get a spot. Although it seems they release their acceptances in random batches.

Over the past little while I was able to meet a few people. One of them got an offer BEFORE I did from UQ and I applied super early, with an 8/8/8/M, which is way less than what I have =p someone else I know got a 27, there was another person with a 26.

 

[Transition]

K I now have evidence, UQ is definately a rolling admissions TRUE. As long as you meet the 8/8/8/M and GPA cut off you WILL get a spot. Although it seems they release their acceptances in random batches.

Over the past little while I was able to meet a few people. One of them got an offer BEFORE I did from UQ and I applied super early, with an 8/8/8/M, which is way less than what I have =p someone else I know got a 27, there was another person with a 26.

This isn't really new information. I'm not sure how this constitutes as evidence for anything? We already knew that UQ has a rolling admissions standard and that 8/8/8/M is a minimum but also that this minimum seems to be enough to get a spot. I still stand by my stance that the standards seem relatively low for western medical schools and is nearer to carrib admission standards.

 

[shan564]

This isn't really new information. I'm not sure how this constitutes as evidence for anything? We already knew that UQ has a rolling admissions standard and that 8/8/8/M is a minimum but also that this minimum seems to be enough to get a spot. I still stand by my stance that the standards seem relatively low for western medical schools and is nearer to carrib admission standards.

With a 24 and a 2.7, you might not even be able to get into the big 4 Carib schools.

 

[Transition]

With a 24 and a 2.7, you might not even be able to get into the big 4 Carib schools.

You might, if you rock your interview and have a well written essay. I guess since UQ doesn't look at those though, it is easier to get into.

 

[brushbordermb]

Why do Canadians prefer Australian Med schools over American Med Schools?

Thanks.

 

[Transition]

Why do Canadians prefer Australian Med schools over American Med Schools?

Thanks.

I don't know about the majority, but I chose Aus because of cost (most US schools start at $45K USD plus living). Also, none of the schools I was competitive for in the US appealed to me.

 

[brushbordermb]

Hopefully last question: When is the earliest I can apply for the 2011 cycle?

 

[SFs Own Tone]

Hopefully last question: When is the earliest I can apply for the 2011 cycle?

Early May to late June.

 

[jaketheory]

4. Most other schools (Flinders, Monash, Melbourne, etc.) - Admissions are based on a combination of GPA, MCAT, and interview. You can make up for your MCAT with your interview if you're spectacular, but again, you'll be severely crippled. Also, most of these schools accept very few international students (Flinders accepts a decent amount), so their admissions cutoffs are likely to change heavily from year to year depending on the class size.

actually GPA is a hurdle (5.0/7) at monash. interview is weighted 60% with test score being 40%

Deakin ranks on GPA and also gives bonus points if you have clinical experience or a relevant degree. when i inquired they said most everyone got the bonus points, which i take to mean thos bonus points aren't that helpful. course it couldnt hurt.

 

[jaketheory]

So I did my MCAT. And I'm just waiting to see how it went. I think the PS and BS were good, God Willingly. But I'm not sure about VR. I had a lot of trouble reading, which I usually don't. So my question is, if you write the MCAT 3 times, is that consider bad for most Australian schools. Thanks.

i know for locals they dont care how many times you take the Gammy. in fact locals get to pick which score to send the schools. i'd guess it is similar for internationals. if there is no way to pick and they must receive them all, i'd guess they use your best one, but id would be best to confirm with each school in which you are interested.

 

[jaketheory]

I don't know about the majority, but I chose Aus because of cost (most US schools start at $45K USD plus living). Also, none of the schools I was competitive for in the US appealed to me.

no they dont. a friend of mine is at the most expensive US med school and it is 48k/year. while there are others close behind i would not say 'most'. i'd say average for private and out-of-state tuition is around 35-38k.

living expenses range from dirt cheap to NYC expensive. simply depends where you go.

 

[jaketheory]

Early May to late June.

i think if you are not applying through ACER you can start applying within a year before classes start. that is generally how international undergrad apps go. course that doesnt mean they will really look at it then considering some schools will form a cutoff for interviews based on all apps. but then again some have rolling admissions.

best to inquire directly to schools in which you are interested.

 

[shan564]

Hopefully last question: When is the earliest I can apply for the 2011 cycle?

ACER applications usually open in June. Some individual schools allow you to apply outside of ACER; for example, UQ will accept applications as early as January/February (but their cycle doesn't actually open until March/April).

I think UQ is the only school that has rolling admissions, so you don't have to worry about applying early to ACER.

 

[Transition]

ACER applications usually open in June. Some individual schools allow you to apply outside of ACER; for example, UQ will accept applications as early as January/February (but their cycle doesn't actually open until March/April).

I think UQ is the only school that has rolling admissions, so you don't have to worry about applying early to ACER.

UQ is the only one with rolling admissions, per se, but it's mostly due to their lack of interviews.

Most other gemp schools accepting internationals have multiple rounds of admission. Deakin, Wollongong and Flinders fall into this (2 rounds). USyd, Monash and ANU have a single round. UMelb, I don't know much about because I did not apply there.

 

[Transition]

no they dont. a friend of mine is at the most expensive US med school and it is 48k/year. while there are others close behind i would not say 'most'. i'd say average for private and out-of-state tuition is around 35-38k.

living expenses range from dirt cheap to NYC expensive. simply depends where you go.

Nope. This is completely false.

The cheapest school open to Canadians is $37K/year and that was SUNY Upstate in 2008 (with reasonable admission stats because I was not very competitive, the next cheapest range in $34K range and those are iveys). The tuition has risen to ~$40K/year since. I can post the stats if need be. This is based on going through each school in the MSAR, cross-referencing it with personal emails and compiling a list of schools that accept Canadians.

The most expensive are Wayne state and MSU which are upwards of $55K/year to $65K/year tuition, respectively.

Then, don't forget that a lot of schools ask for all your 4 years tuition upfront sitting in an escrow account. Imagine the interest on that! Not that anyone that can afford to do that would do it via loan, though.

EDIT: Sorry, I reread my post and saw where I went wrong. I meant to say that that is the tuition I would be looking at as a Canadian that is not competitive for Ivey.

 

[Transition]

i think if you are not applying through ACER you can start applying within a year before classes start. that is generally how international undergrad apps go. course that doesnt mean they will really look at it then considering some schools will form a cutoff for interviews based on all apps. but then again some have rolling admissions.

best to inquire directly to schools in which you are interested.

ACER opens in May and closes in June. This year it was late June for internationals and early June for locals.

Direct applications tend to be due in Feb-June, depending on the round you want to apply in (Wollongong/UQ/Deakin in March, Flinders in April and June, ANU in June)

 

[JanikeyDoc]

Unlike American schools, most Australian admissions are 100% objective. Nothing is "considered good" or "considered bad"... it's either "good" or "bad" according to their admissions algorithm. I don't know of any schools that consider the number of times you take the MCAT - I'm pretty sure they'll just look at the scores. That's especially true for UQ; they've been relatively lenient with regard to their MCAT requirements in recent years (they require that you take the test in the last 2 years and get an 8 on every section, but I've seen them make exceptions).

Now, if you do take the MCAT again, I wouldn't expect that you'll get your scores in time for the 2010 cycle.

I strongly agree with that point. Australian Grad Entry programs take your GPA, MCAT/GAMSAT score, and interview performance. Most schools now use MMI as that is probably the most objective type of medical school interview. North American schools tend to look heavily at non academic factors. For example, I read about a medical student at a very prestigious US school who used to be a ballet dancer in Paris, France. Australian schools would never look at those things.

 

[jaketheory]

I strongly agree with that point. Australian Grad Entry programs take your GPA, MCAT/GAMSAT score, and interview performance. Most schools now use MMI as that is probably the most objective type of medical school interview. North American schools tend to look heavily at non academic factors. For example, I read about a medical student at a very prestigious US school who used to be a ballet dancer in Paris, France. Australian schools would never look at those things.

i have to say that is a ridiculous statement. who are you to say this ballet dancer was not as qualified an applicant than the other applicants? and even were she not, you just believe everything you read on face value?

 

[CaptainBluebear]

i know for locals they dont care how many times you take the Gammy. in fact locals get to pick which score to send the schools. i'd guess it is similar for internationals. if there is no way to pick and they must receive them all, i'd guess they use your best one, but id would be best to confirm with each school in which you are interested.

You can only sit the GAMSAT once per year, and your score is only valid for two years, so it isn't that much of an advantage to only be able to choose from two scores - they will automatically take the higher out of the two.