Let me start by saying that I am in no means asking for the glorification or out down of any school . That being said, I am currently a pre-med D.O. student about to graduate. I hope to get into a S.M.P or post bacc and eventually attend med-school.Afterward I would like to specialize in something other than primary care (radiology or anesthesiology) .From a residency opportunity perspective which D.O. school would offer the better chance to match into a residency other than primary care? I know that NSUCOM(Nova) is pretty good at residency placement for specialist. Other than Nova which other programs should I be looking into ?
Which D.O. school for specialist residency?
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It doesn't really matter, since you are doing a SMP, I can assume that your stats aren't that great. So, I'd take whatever program you can get into. It is how you perform in medical school that matters, not what school you go to.
You may be able to argue that a top tier allopathic medical school may open more doors than a lower tier, but in the DO world, it really doesn't bloody matter. My school sucks and I know we have people going into radiology.
You may be able to argue that a top tier allopathic medical school may open more doors than a lower tier, but in the DO world, it really doesn't bloody matter. My school sucks and I know we have people going into radiology.
In that case which SMP or post baccs offer good linkage ? I am doing an SMP in order to beef up my GPA and credentials. I had a few slip ups here and there but was able to pull through.Also I heard that LECOM was not the best for residency placement , is this the general opinion? What school are you attending sylvanthus?
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The match stats greatly vary from year to year, so don't go purely off of match statistics. Also, it is confusing comparing the DO match, military match, and MD match and the match info can be manipulated to further some individuals opinion.
If you have a choice in schools, goto the cheapest one. Medical school is what you make of it, so it is best to get saddled with less debt. I goto PNWU, I wouldn't recommend it by the way. Also, if you are not from the pacific northwest your chances are minimal anyhow.
If you have a choice in schools, goto the cheapest one. Medical school is what you make of it, so it is best to get saddled with less debt. I goto PNWU, I wouldn't recommend it by the way. Also, if you are not from the pacific northwest your chances are minimal anyhow.
This.
Outside of a top tier Allo school, it doesn't matter. All DO schools will set you up to go into any field you want (except for Rad Onc maybe). Your performance in school and on boards will determine your future.
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To piggyback sylvanthus, it's impossible to select schools based on how you think it might impact your choice of specialty. For the vast majority of circumstances, schools really play very little determination in that regard. Specialties aren't linearly arranged and you don't pick the specialty you're going into based upon which one pays the most and which one you would be the most competitive applicant. That being said, if and when you apply for schools, since specializing is important to you I would ask about what their 3rd/4th year clinical rotations are like and how much exposure they have to specialized medicine or if students are given enough elective time to explore multiple career options.
Honestly though, if you're going into an SMP/post-bacc program I would spend most of your time just trying to distinguish yourself academically and be the best applicant possible. You can raise these issues when you're mulling over which school to matriculate at
Honestly though, if you're going into an SMP/post-bacc program I would spend most of your time just trying to distinguish yourself academically and be the best applicant possible. You can raise these issues when you're mulling over which school to matriculate at
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Yea..what they said
I would recommend going to one that is in the Midwest/East coast and has been around for a while. Proximity to DO specialty programs may make it easier to rotate around, and if you are applying MD there will probably be people in the classes ahead of you to take advice from. Mostly though - it's what you make of it!
Good luck
I would recommend going to one that is in the Midwest/East coast and has been around for a while. Proximity to DO specialty programs may make it easier to rotate around, and if you are applying MD there will probably be people in the classes ahead of you to take advice from. Mostly though - it's what you make of it!
Good luck
Not to be mean here, but you REALLY need to evaluate your abilities if you are about to pay for an SMP and then DO tuition, but would ONLY be happy in a high-paying competitive specialty.
If you don't have the chops to get into a DO school right out of college, you are unlikely to be competitive against the insanely smart, unrelenting students who will be at the top of any medical school class. Its certainly not impossible to have ended up in your place and still have the ability to get into one of those specialties, but all the "follow your dreams, settle for nothing" nonsense that people cling to can be very poisonous. Medical school results in serious debt and--if you end up in a specialty that you do not like--serious unhappiness. Again I am not trying to be nasty--I just want to make sure people hear one voice of caution amongst a chorus of "anything is possible, so shoot for the stars, kiddo!"
Edit: any SMP will feed mostly into their own school. Evaluate the med school first, then look at the SMP. That being said, other than tuition, there really is little difference between DO schools.
Good luck.
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this is one of the most ridiculous statements people make on SDN. if by "top tier allo school" you mean any US MD school that is ranked by US news then you might have an argument but using any other definition makes that statement completely at odds with reality. almost any US MD school will put you in a better position than any DO school. Multiple DO students, residents and attendings on here agree.
to OP: going to an SMP with the goal of ending up at a DO school is a waste of a year and $50k+ tuition. obviously it's difficult to give good advice without knowing your basic stats but if you are ok with going the DO route there are many avenues to make up for a poor gpa like retaking undergrad classes. SMPs are for students with high MCAT low GPA who are making a last ditch effort for a US MD school.
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I think you are just looking for an argument. The OP specified specifically which DO school would aid him with being placed in a specialty. The MD versus DO specialty choice has been beaten to death and is not the topic here. Pick a fight elsewhere.
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not trying to pick any sort of fight. just wanted to point out and correct misinformation. if you notice i didn't quote or disagree with the statement you made earlier in the thread:
...but unfortunately people with an agenda (and likely a little bit of insecurity) twist around statements like that and end up perpetuating completely ridiculous statements like the one i quoted in my last post.
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Understood.
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But the truth is that based on your post history especially in the recent past, you are the one with an agenda.... It seems that for a non-DO you are quite interested in posting about DOs and their future careers....
Having said that, since we don't want to turn this into another MD vs DO thread, we are (or at least I am) going to try to avoid arguing with you (aka ignore you)...
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you're right, i've also noticed that i have started posting about MD vs DO more than in the past, but not because i have an agenda (not sure what that'd be really since my brand doesn't really need promoting)...it's because:
1. there has been a rash of MD vs. DO threads recently
2. once i became a clinical student and as i get closer to the match it has become more obvious to me that there is in fact a difference between MD and DO that may not be obvious to pre-meds or pre-clinical students and which i feel doesn't get talked about in this forum.
don't get me wrong...i have nothing against DOs and i think it's a perfectly valid route for many, certainly a much better choice than caribbean ....but i would be remiss to ignore a completely nonfactual comment like the one made earlier in this thread.
Let me clarify , I never said I would "only" be happy with a high paying competitive residency , I do prefer anesthesiology due to my backround in Bio-Chem (which is one of my majors) and radiology because the field interests me . Pay has nothing to do with my decision to become a physician , it actually has the least to do with it.In terms of my abilities I curently have a 3.2 GPA , double majoring in Micro&Molecular biology with my second major in Bio-Chemistry and a minor in Physics.In terms of my abilities I feel fairly competent that I can proceed with this career. My only reason for wanting to do a SMP is to beef up my credentials.
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You are obviously entitled to your opinion (which is just that, an opinion) and I obviously disagree with it.
But just for pre-meds and pre-clinical students: I am a very average DO student and I'm willing to put my clinical training against any average US MD student any day (as I do every day on rotations) and I have nothing less than any of them (I have yet to meet someone who has said my clinical skills are not up to par to US MD students and I've done most of my 4th year at top 20 US MD schools)... I can't comment about my match outcome until March 16th...
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I second this. A 3.2 in a hard science won't keep you out of any but a few DO schools. Better to spend a few thousand on an intense MCAT class than tens of thousands and a wasted year on an SMP. If you wanted to get an MPH or go the grad school route, that's one thing, but an SMP is just taking classes to show you are able to handle rigor. There are cheaper options with less risk.
As was already mentioned, DO schools are relatively similar for specialist residencies. One thing I want to add is the region the school serves is important. Want Infectious Diseases in Florida? I'd pick NSU over PCOM. Want Gas in Philly? I'd pick PCOM over NSU. Don't know where you want to do residency? Then it doesn't matter so much where you go to school.
I agree with the other quotes with one additional point to make. If you want a slight edge, and I mean slight. Go to a program with an affiliated hospital that has gas or rad residencies already set up. Then, you can maybe get some face time which might make it easier to match there. Those are the bigger name programs, DMU, MSU, CCOM, NOVA, COMP, and LECOM off the top of my head.
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if you haven't taken the mcat yet then there is a huge piece of the puzzle missing. SMPs are very picky about MCAT scores and are looking to accept only people with a solid MCAT score.
glad you had a good experience but unfortunately the clinical experience is quite variable and way less regulated at DO schools. once people like you stop taking this personally we can have an honest serious discussion about this important issue that is very often overlooked by premeds.
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neither of those will help you very much in med school admissions. definitely don't do either if you don't have a distinct interest in them and plan on incorporating them into your future practice.
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How do you know? Based on few posts on SDN? You make it sound like all MD students go to Hopkins and get exactly "equal" and outstanding clinical experience... (btw, I'm not saying you need to go to Hopkins to get adequate clinical training)...
Taking it personally? You are talking about my degree/profession and career, how can I not take it personally? How would you feel if I came and made generalized/inaccurate statements about the clinical experience at your school based on rotating with 2 of your students?
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skinMD is just a boring little troll pushing the MD vs DO thing. Doesn't that "rivalry" get boring after a while? Judge people individually, not by letters on a piece of paper that are then stitched onto a coat.
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i've mentioned in other threads how i know this ...and since you are so familiar with my posting history you've probably read all about it. the sdn posts from DO students, residents and attendings just reinforce it.
do you see me taking it personally when people say that going to a top allo school is beneficial? no. because it's true and i am usually one of the few arguing for picking the prestigious more highly ranked MD school despite not being at one because i know it helps and its importance is usually downplayed on sdn ...however that fact doesn't make me feel any less successful because i couldn't get into one of those schools. everyone has their own circumstances and you do the best with the hand you're dealt ....but being in a certain situation doesn't change the reality around you.
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The man's got a point...I've been on rotations with MD/DO students from all over and some people are more on their game than others but I don't think I would characterize any of those students as having clinical educations that were grossly superior or inferior to anyone else. Certainly I haven't had any experiences like http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=10977401&postcount=22, but I don't generalize about that person's education as I should hope someone wouldn't generalize about mine. There are good schools and bad schools. I wouldn't say most MD programs are flawless representations of academia at its finest just as I wouldn't say most DO programs have a lackluster clinical education.
Seriously though, if you think that the MD vs DO debate on SDN is "recent" you haven't been around enough. It's clear that you have a certain perception about DOs and their competitiveness when applying for certain specialties. I think DOs participating in the NRMP match would be more qualified to speak about the significance of being a DO in the practical sense than an M3 from Stony Brook. Your input is always welcome but I think if you're espousing on matters where your primary sources are gleaned from pdfs and archived posts, you should defer to those actively involved in the process.
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oh look another SDNer quick to call someone that disagrees with him a troll....that's new
i'm not going around making new MD vs DO threads or bringing it up out of nowhere. i randomly clicked on this thread, read a ridiculous statement and felt like i needed to correct it since noone else did. what about that is troll-ish exactly?
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I don't think he twisted anything. I read it as "There's a difference between top-tier MD and bottom tier MD. There's less of a difference between DO schools." There was no comparison made between allopathic and osteopathic. No need to be on a hair-trigger.
Clinical education is a known entity in allopathic schools, since many of them have major affiliated tertiary or quaternary medical centers. Osteopathic schools are spread across more sites and more community hospitals, and as such, will have greater variability in the quality of the rotations. I'm confident I'll come out a competent medical graduate, but if you offered me the rotations I'm going to get as a DO student or going through my third and fourth years back at my home state's allopathic program, I'd take those in a heartbeat.
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oh look another SDNer quick to call someone that disagrees with him a troll....that's new
i'm not going around making new MD vs DO threads or bringing it up out of nowhere. i randomly clicked on this thread, read a ridiculous statement and felt like i needed to correct it since noone else did. what about that is troll-ish exactly?
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well i read it as "unless you go to a top tier US MD then it makes no difference where you go" ....i had a feeling it would spiral into this flame war but sometimes i can't resist
PS: we have plenty of DO and carib residents here and i have DO and OMS friends ....people don't live in a bubble where all their info is gleaned from SDN
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Well I guess now we all know the source of your vast knowledge about DOs....
This is what I love about low tier MD and DO students/graduates, they talk about how much going to those schools limits them and then in the same breath (or in this case, post) talk about how successful and great they are/will be.... You can't have it both ways pal...
Anyways, I wish you the best of luck in the match
and hope you will become as successful as you would've if you got "in one of those schools"....
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Well I guess now we all know the source of your vast knowledge about DOs....
...see the above post cheif
woah now....i wouldn't call my school "low tier"
my point was that i can admit facts without bruising my ego. the operative word in my post that you completely ignored was FEEL. whether i will or will not be as successful is irrelevant to this discussion.
I guess what I'm getting from this debate is the following:
DO is short for Dont get this degree, lower tier MD = McDonalds which is where you will work since no residency program will ever take you. SMP = smelly moldly poop degree.
DO is short for Dont get this degree, lower tier MD = McDonalds which is where you will work since no residency program will ever take you. SMP = smelly moldly poop degree.
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You do know more than 50% of us will end up in primary care specialties, the stats show that. If you need to do an SMP JUST to get into med school, I would say just focus on getting into med school, then IF you get in worry about what specialty you want to work for. You are in no position to be choosy here, just my two and half cents
Since you picked a fight.
I simply refuse to entertain nonsensical banter about how much better your school is than mine, or how being admitted to the number 19 on US news is the end of the world. These strange insecureties only seem to exist in the world of academia. My buddies at MBA school all argue about the prestige of their programs as if it somehow mattered. You are correct, the allmighty MD degree caries more prestige and more opportunity than mine. Yours is better in every sense of the word. Its a harder school to get into, and those that do are generally better test takers, and may even be smarter. And what is it with the worshiping of the specialist here? Once again, the silly insecurities come foaming to the top. Would you like a medal?
But here is the deal.
I do not care.
I stand by my statement. ALL medical schools in this country will give you the opportunity to do anything in medicine you want. Period.
Could it be easier from Harvard, or Duke? Of course it could be.
And if you got an acceptance to Duke, would you pick NOVA southeastern university over it? Of course not.
But both will give you the tools to do what you want.
OP, and anyone listening. Go to the best and cheapest medical school you can get into. Work hard and keep your head down.
I have said my peace and am finished with this worthless thread.
Danz
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No the stats show what people want them to show. Schools will gladly say that all those going into IM are doing primary care. How many go on to do a subspecialty? How many really stay as generalists? Who knows, that info is not generally tracked. There are lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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I understand these MD DO arguments going on in the premed sections... but in the osteopathic section as well?! Say it aint so!
Great post, Danz.
Great post, Danz.
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...see the above post cheif
woah now....i wouldn't call my school "low tier"
my point was that i can admit facts without bruising my ego. the operative word in my post that you completely ignored was FEEL. whether i will or will not be as successful is irrelevant to this discussion.
Do you really think anyone reading this post agrees with this statements?
It's not quite fair to describe your responses as acerbic; but I offer you this challenge. When you read this, and formulate a reply in your mind, are you dispassionate; or is your heart slightly racing-are you angry? And can you honestly tell me that it is not?
Cognitive dissonance.
What are you hiding?
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It always helps if your school has affiliated residency programs. They do give preference to their students - or at a minimum, they'll be able to put a face with the application if you don't get to audition there. For example, TUCOM-NV is affiliated with an orthopedic surgeon who performs there and they are affiliated with Valley Hospital's orthopedic, dermatology, and ophthalmology residencies.
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Thanks, I need it!
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You randomly seem to click on these type of threads only or stir the pot that why, like you did on this thread.oh look another SDNer quick to call someone that disagrees with him a troll....that's new
i'm not going around making new MD vs DO threads or bringing it up out of nowhere. i randomly clicked on this thread, read a ridiculous statement and felt like i needed to correct it since noone else did. what about that is troll-ish exactly?
Oh look, another SDNer using sarcasm... blah blah blah...
nice try.
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boom!
In my opinion, PCOM, MSU-COM, KCOM, OUCOM, and DMU-COM. I matched into a very competitive osteopathic residency but I know from doing rotations at MD institutions that these schools have familiarity across both MD and DO.
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4th year osteopathic student here. I only have personal experience at one institution, but I think matching into a competitive allopathic specialty has more to do with your individual performance (both class rank/boards and clinical LORs/away rotations) than which school you are coming from. For the most part, besides local recognition in your school's home city, as a DO applicant you are going to be viewed as an outsider by most allopathic programs anyway.
I guess what I mean to say is, that if a program is willing to consider you coming from one osteopathic school, they're likely to consider applicants from other schools, too. If a line is drawn, it's likely to be between MD and DO applicants, in general.
I guess what I mean to say is, that if a program is willing to consider you coming from one osteopathic school, they're likely to consider applicants from other schools, too. If a line is drawn, it's likely to be between MD and DO applicants, in general.
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I don't have time to get deep into this right now, but I'd like to second this. My 3rd year thus far has been tremendously uneven, and at this point my anxiety is building as to how exactly I will fare once I go on away rotations next year.
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R U KIDDING ME? There were 2 guys in my class that got into Neurosurgury and a guy from LECOM was the first DO neurosurgeon in New York State. My class also has derm, path, ortho, gen surg, ER, and everything else. Talk about not doing your homework. Just go on DOXIMITY and punch in any medical school class and look at the specialties listed.
But as other's said, it's not about the school you go to. It's about you as an individual and your personal board scores, your class rank, and audition rotations.
