Which is better?? #1 or #2?

[Jessica]

Kind of reminds me of having an eye exam... but I have another annoying "where should I go?" questions.

I have been extremely fortunate with regard to med school admissions, and now I have the hefty task of choosing between UCLA, UCSF, and Johns Hopkins.

I absolutely loved Hopkins, I feel like that school is the best fit for me.... the only thing that is holding me back is the difference in price.

In your opinion, is a Hokpins education worth the extra $$??

Any wisdom that you feel like sharing would be greatly appreciated

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[Jim Picotte]

If you love it then it may be worth it. To all us 4th years looking at our $150,000 in debt we have to pay off, I'd go to the cheapest school you can, particularily with the choices you have. If you want to practice, or do a residency on the East Coast then it would be easier to get if you do go to Hopkins. In the end, the decision is yours. Good luck.

 

[dr.evil]

Is Hopkins EDUCATION worth the price? Well, the actual education is probably not worth an extra $17k per year BUT if you felt more comfortable there and would regret your decision if you attended UCSF or UCLA then it's probably worth it. Education is kind of universal at medical schools across the country because we all have to take the same certification exams to get to the same end point.

Hopkins does however open many doors for you (not to say that UCSF/UCLA wouldn't). Residency placement would likely be a little easier do to the name. The problem is that you're comparing 3 very good "name" schools so the decision is ultimately where do you REALLY want to go.

So $68,000 more dollars over 4 years. Hmm. That's a lot of money. BTW, just in case you didn't already know, the weather is drastically different!! :wink:

 

[davidgreen]

Hopkins all the way. Don't hesitate, don't delay. UCLA is not even in the same league. UCSF is in the same league, but they're not sitting on top laughing jauntily the way Harvard and Hopkins are. Hopkins is a frontrunner in all seasons, in all eras, for all time. Hopkins is the blue-chip Hall of Famer. Don't screw this up. Go Hopkins all the way.

(Me? I'm at U-Alabama, a fine state school - it was either 'bama or Geo Wash U, and the extra dough definitely wasn't worth it. But if I'd had Hopkins as a choice, I'd've paid an extra 100 grand over 4 yrs to go there.)

Just my thoughts.

that's george washington univ, not wash u in st. louis. that school's bad a**, and i'd give my left n*t to go there.

 

[carddr]

Someone here knock my socks off and tell me why a school that receives 1Billion dollars from its alumni and has the top research money (thus the top school) has to then go and charge top tuition. Give me a break!!! I would go to Hopkins but see if you can't cry poor and get a break in the cost... did I just say that??? Can only the rich go to Hopkins? How elitist is that? Having said all that this can't be just a pocket book decision... you're going in debt no matter where you go, right? Isn't the ? than just how much in debt???

 

[Ligament]

Its not worth the price to go to hopkins. You will recieve roughly the same education no matter where you go.

Go whereever is cheapest. You willl count your blessings when, after four years, your friends at other schools owe $250,000 and you dont.

regards.

 

[oldman]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by fatimadr:
•Someone here knock my socks off and tell me why a school that receives 1Billion dollars from its alumni and has the top research money (thus the top school) has to then go and charge top tuition. Give me a break!!! I would go to Hopkins but see if you can't cry poor and get a break in the cost... did I just say that??? Can only the rich go to Hopkins? How elitist is that? Having said all that this can't be just a pocket book decision... you're going in debt no matter where you go, right? Isn't the ? than just how much in debt???•••••if you see all the beamers on the undergrad campus, that might answer the question about the rich at hopkins.

 

[JJ4]

Just outta curiosity --- I'm thinking about going to Mayo for my MD-PhD --- but I think I might wanna end up on the east coast for residencies (the other schools i got into were NYU and Mount Sinai). I declined NYU but am still sort of considering Sinai. If I went to Mayo as opposed to Sinai --- would I have more trouble getting back to the East Coast??

 

[JJ4]

Also -- i think it would be that it's easier to STAY at Hopkins for residency if you went to Hopkins. But as for the rest of the East Coast I highly doubt UCSF is going to make it more difficult to get back. Just a thought.

 

[spiderman719]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by Jessica:
•I absolutely loved Hopkins, I feel like that school is the best fit for me.... •••••If you really feel that way, you'll be kicking yourself later if you go anywhere else.

The other posters are right in that the curriculum is essentially identical between medical schools, but curriculum is only one part of your experience. The doctors who mentor you in medical school and the other students play a huge role in your learning.

 

[rajneel1]

Jessica,
johns hopkins indebtedness is similar to the UCs (check out usnews and world report)! so it will cost you roughly the same to go there and it looks like you liked it the best. there might be other costs associated with moving to the east coast (i am guessing that you are a western state person, probably cali) like flights home for christmas, moving costs, etc. but you will probably pay the same as if you went to a UC. hopkins is supposed to be good about grant money...remember that financial aid talk we had before the interviews?

 

[johnM]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by JJ4:
•Just outta curiosity --- I'm thinking about going to Mayo for my MD-PhD --- but I think I might wanna end up on the east coast for residencies (the other schools i got into were NYU and Mount Sinai). I declined NYU but am still sort of considering Sinai. If I went to Mayo as opposed to Sinai --- would I have more trouble getting back to the East Coast??•••••Are you kidding? Mayo is respected all over the place, and you definitely won't be at any disadvantages having that name behind you.

 

[MacGyver]

Well I'd say that for preclinical years, the education at all those places is roughly equivalent.

But as for clinical education, there is a differnece. All 3 are good, but I think Hopkins clinical education is outstanding and only Harvard perhaps might be able to rival it.

 

[Jessica]

Thank you all for sharing, I really appreciate it

rajneel1 - I remember the fin aid talk, but I wasn't sure if the avg. debt of students is due to lots of grant $ being passed out, or if it was because of the "beamer" phenomenon - people with parents who could lend a hand so that students didn't have to take the loans in the first place.

I also have the option of choosing Harvard, so I was just trying to get a general picture of whether, at the level of residency, the cost of a private school is really worth it (if indeed there is a significant difference in my out of pocket cost.... I am still waiting to hear from any school about a tentative financial aid offer.)

If the cost is comparable, then without question I would go to Harvard or Hopkins...

 

[Vader]

•••quote:••• If the cost is comparable, then without question I would go to Harvard or Hopkins... ••••I think this says it all.

 

[Sir William Osler]

tough decision. wow. there's no way to make a completely objective decision. If I were making the same decision, I would consider first how much location mattered. Although all of these schools offer relatively similar opportunities post-grad, I would say that you will most likely stay in the vicinity of your med school for residency. This isn't a hard rule, but something to think about nonetheless. Also, from my visits to both schools, there is a somewhat different atmosphere at both. UCSF seems to emphasize training physicians who have lots of interesting life experiences and value things like culture, language, etc and therefore would really develop in a city like San Francisco. Hopkins seems more interested in people who are gung-ho clinicians or academics people. Not to say that both schools dont have a nice mix of people. I am just attempting to stereotype. There will probably be more older non-traditionals at UCSF. Hopkins will have more straight-arrows. Most californians would choose ucsf over hopkins for financial and location reasons. People who choose hopkins are doing so because of the history and clinical prowess of hopkins. it's a unique place for certain reasons as is UCSF for some other unique reasons. I would say choose the school that has similar priorities to yourself. But, each will provide opportunities for you to pursue anything in medicine that you could imagine.

i think you will go to hopkins just from what you've told me about your interview experience. your residency choices will be limitless at either. hopkins has a special place in my heart just because i know alot of people who studied there and loved it. At both places, you will find that alot of the attendings attended the scohol. IT's a good indication of their happiness if they decided to continue to stay on for work. but, you must admit that for someone to choose to stay at hopkins in baltimore, they must really love the institution. UCSF has the added attraction of san francisco.

if money matters, then this is an easy choice. if not and it doesn't seem so, then this choice is difficult. gosh, good luck deciding. never forget that you will be happy at either school and you will have infinite opportunities at either. there is no right or wrong decision.

p.s. however, i hope i get to see you this september in longwood .

 

[Fix-it-Man]

Holy Crap!! Are you kidding? THE OBVIOUS CHOICE IS HHHOOPPPKKKINNSS!!! I agree with davidgreen and am glad somebody has some common sense in this thread!

YOU ARE the CHOSEN ONE for HAVING a CHOICE to GO to HOPKINS; DON'T EVEN THINK TWICE ABOUT MONEY , you will get in the best residencies (granted you study and get good board scores) and will pay off your debts in grand style!!!

CONGRATS!!

(P.S. I don't go to Hopkins, so it's not like I am tryig to advertise my own school)

 

[ApacheIndian]

None of the above. Go to St. Eustatius in the Caribbean (I AM trying to advertise my own school :wink: ! Seriously, congrats on your impending "tough" decision, I'm sure you're worked hard for and deserve it...

 

[lilycat]

I agree with Vader.

Honestly, I think cost should only be considered when your feelings about everything else at the schools is comparable. I have a lot of friends who based their decision on cost (going to a cheaper school over the school they felt most comfortable at), and they regret it. Of course, there's no guarantee they would have been happier at the other school, but the point is that they wonder "what if..." I don't think that the savings of $60K matters all that much to them at this point.

Debt sucks, but schools like Harvard and Hopkins are known for ginving fairly attractive aid packages. My advice would be to play the schools against each other to try and get the best aid packages from Hopkins and Harvard, knowing all along that you are going to one of those two schools. Even if you do have more loans to pay off in the end, I think the price is worth it for not having the possibility of regret.

 

[deleted4401]

No doctor defaults on loans (unless she's shady and moves to Guadalajara), so don't make the money the issue. You'll pay it off, not quickly of course, but you will. I chose a private school over a state school and it will cost me a high-end Lexus, but frankly, I know that amount of money is worth my current state of mind.

But to people that say there's a difference in what UCSF can do for you or what Hopkins can do for you ... unfathomable. If you do well at EITHER school (or do well at ANY school), you will have all kinds of doors open up for you.

Go where your heart is ... it will be worth any other additional costs.

But, IMHO, I don't know how you could pick Baltimore over San Francisco ... hehe, that's just how I feel, I guess.

Simul

 

[Jessica]

Thanks again everyone!

Vader - I hope that it doesn't come across like I didn't enjoy SF, didn't like the area, or didn't love the school... SF and LA were my "dream schools" when I started applying last year (Harvard and Hopkins were my "thank you for the check, your rejection letter will be in the mail shortly" schools, but I knew that I'd be kicking myself later on if I never gave it a shot.) If SF was my only acceptance I would still be overjoyed right now (not because I got in somewhere-anywhere, but becuase I think I could be happy and do well there.) SF is such a dynamic city, and the students/faculty I met were exciting, down to earth people.

If I was picking and choosing between schools where everyone was miserable, cut-throat, and which offered an all-around nasty experience, this decision would be so much easier.

I made a list of pros/cons for each school, and they all have a very long list of pros (duh)... but my "gut feeling" still goes with Hopkins. Cost and gut feeling aside, these schools are all on a level playing field as far as I am concerned.

And to those who have pointed out the shortcomings of Baltimore - the west coast gets my vote for location (living in southern CA for all of my life, I am just a teeny bit biased.) Baltimore wasn't exactly utopia (to put it lightly!! Don't walk thought Lexington Market after dark by yourself <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> ) but I still like the school

 

[mpp]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by SimulD:
•No doctor defaults on loans (•••••Except for <a href="http://domino.psc.dhhs.gov/default.nsf/disciplinepage?ReadForm&Start=1&Count=30&Expand=1" target="_blank"> these people...</a>

 

[deleted4401]

That's an awesome list!

Can't wait to be a part of it ... hehe ... just kidding. Watch Stafford deny my loans this year.

Simul

 

[McEntrye]

I think you cannot discount the importance of debt.
You should wait until you have financial aid packages from Harvard and Hopkins.

The reason is that debt can be prohibitve in the long run to the choices you make. If you really want to be a top sort of specialist (ie to make the big bucks) then go to harvard/hopkins and forget the debt.
If you are maybe thinking about specialties that are less highly compensated(i.e. MD PhD, or M?decins Sans Fronti?res) , then it might be a good idea to pick the school that will give you less debt.

 

[MacGyver]

Mcentyre,

I think MD/PhD is a special case and that academic reputation of the med school does play more of a role than it would for primary care.

The reason I say this is because the vast majority of MD/PhDs want to go into academic medicine type residencies which are very competitive, and therefore any extra bit of prestige you get from the med school you attend can make a difference.

 

[USeF]

as one that has seen your posts during this cycle, I've been in admiration and love to see the small-name undergrads make a whoopin in the app scene!

my logic: State schools have obviously done well for you, and you didn't even attend a UC if I'm not mistaken. the UC's are among THE top medical schools with a caliber of students that you will find at those other schools. Though you are wise to go with the 'gut feeling' could you verbalize what specific things you want out of H&H that you may miss out on if you chose SF&LA?

 

[USeF]

mpp- wow!

what's really scary is the highest debt on that page and the next (300K!!!) is from G-town. Man, I am soo hoping I get in at Chicago or Pitt before G-town. I fear for my parent's bank account if I don't.

 

[ubiquitous]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by mpp:
• •••quote:•••Originally posted by SimulD:
•No doctor defaults on loans (•••••Except for <a href="http://domino.psc.dhhs.gov/default.nsf/disciplinepage?ReadForm&Start=1&Count=30&Expand=1" target="_blank"> these people...</a>•••••Anyone have any idea what's going on with Meharry graduates? I took a look at the defaulters with the highest debts, and 9/10 times the graduate was from Meharry, followed by Georgetown, Morehouse, Loma Linda, etc. Any thoughts? I'm just wondering why some schools have a higher number of physicians defaulting on their loans than other schools.

 

[mpp]

I have heard lots of different reasons but I'm not sure what to believe.

The most obvious is that perhaps the schools more often on the list have larger percentage of their students with HEAL loans (the loans for which the previous links shows those in default) then other schools and therefore they have a larger percentage of defaulters.

Another reason I have heard is that the schools most prevalent on the list graduate a larger percentage of people practicing in low income areas and hence receive little pay and hence default on their loans.

Another reason I have heard is that there is a higher attrition in these schools and not everyone graduates and hence can't afford to pay back the loan.

These are all unsubstantiated rumors. As there are also defaulters (albeit fewer) from Harvard, Stanford, etc., who knows what the real reasons are.

Note that the amount in default given includes interest. Some of those loans are almost 20 years old. They would have accrued a ton of interest by now.

 

[Jessica]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by USeF:
•as one that has seen your posts during this cycle, I've been in admiration and love to see the small-name undergrads make a whoopin in the app scene!

my logic: State schools have obviously done well for you, and you didn't even attend a UC if I'm not mistaken. the UC's are among THE top medical schools with a caliber of students that you will find at those other schools. Though you are wise to go with the 'gut feeling' could you verbalize what specific things you want out of H&H that you may miss out on if you chose SF&LA?•••••Thanks USeF! You remembered correctly, I am at a CSU (Calif. State U., some would equate it to a 4 year JC )

Hmm... maybe I shouldn't go with my gut feeling since it seems that my "gut feelings" are tending to wax and wane.

The "big name" appeal aside, I am not so sure that either Harvard or Hopkins has so much more to offer than either UCLA or UCSF

(anyone sensing second thoughts here?? )

No one seems to be able to verbalize what specific advantage either private school offers... I am sorry, but "it opens doors" is a little vague. Every time I ask someone about H&H (current students) I hear that places like H&H "open doors"... which doors?

When I asked people at Harvard about the impact of debt on their lives, they said that they "try not to think about it" or that "an education at Harvard is worth the cost, its an investment in your future.... like buying a house, its all about location, location, location." Granted, I just discovered that I qualify for max fin. aid. at Harvard, so the cost per year would be 20K for me... and that makes Harvard more attractive. However, since I qualified for max aid at Harvard, shouldn't the situation be similar at a UC (wouldn't a state school still end up being more economical?) Is the "location" of H or H "better" than the UC neighborhood?? It so all seems relative/subjective to me...

------
bottom line, now I am leaning the other way.... I am loving the UCs this week <img border="0" alt="[Lovey]" title="" src="graemlins/lovey.gif" />
*cost
*excellent education
*close to home
*cali weather

If I want to come back to California for residency, does being at UCSF or UCLA give me any type of an edge? if I stayed out here, I would get a lot of experience working with the local populations, and I would also get to know poeple where I might want to do my residency later...

I am still debating the issue.... I have never lived anywhere but Cali... am I living in a bubble if I never have an "east coast" experience?

sorry this is so long... I'm heading back to contemplate the universe now!

 

[Jessica]

Well, now that all of the fin. aid offers are in, it seems that the cost of attending any one of these institutions would be about the same (+/- $3000 a year)... about 20K in loans, and the rest in grants/scholarships. So, now that the money matter is "settled" the decision is a *whole* lot easier

Thank you all for sharing, I really appreciate your comments and advice!

 

[BlackPuma]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by Jessica:
•Well, now that all of the fin. aid offers are in, it seems that the cost of attending any one of these institutions would be about the same (+/- $3000 a year)... about 20K in loans, and the rest in grants/scholarships. So, now that the money matter is "settled" the decision is a *whole* lot easier

Thank you all for sharing, I really appreciate your comments and advice!•••••pleeaaaaaaase pleeeeeeeeeese whatever u do dont big hopkins

pple there are miserable...I have 3 friends right there...and they say no matter how hard they study...they are getting Bs......of course it doenst matter

but whhy go through grades when u can do pass no pass...and by the way...ur with top studetns...so passing is also a difficult tast in those great schools........i'm tired....just dont go to hopkins....pple are miserable there...the environment is horrible...

ur too innocent and pure to be destroyed by hopkins's cynicsm................

if i were u, i would seriously decide between SF and harvard...think of the location if anything...

LA is basically dead and hopkins is blah...