Which medical school is the most well known?

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I just wanted to know in the eyes of medical students which student would land the most competitive/best residency assuming same stats, LORS, board scores and everything BUT from different schools. In an essence, I'm asking which school is the most prestigious between UVA, Medical College of Wisconsin, VCU, Drexel and Morehouse?

Right now I think it's UVA> MCW> Drexel > VCU > Morehouse. Please correct me if I'm wrong!
 
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I just wanted to know in the eyes of medical students which student would land the most competitive/best residency assuming same stats, LORS, board scores and everything BUT from different schools. In an essence, I'm asking which school is the most prestigious between UVA, Medical College of Wisconsin, VCU, Drexel and Morehouse?

Right now I think it's UVA> MCW> Drexel > VCU > Morehouse. Please correct me if I'm wrong!

MS1 here. That's a tough one.....I'll try to give a good answer without the typical SDN "let's tear apart this person's post" response. It's really hard to nail down med school prestige in the same way that you would discern undergrad prestige. Your step scores and shelf exams are standardized so a person coming out of VCU with a 250 is better off than someone coming from UVA with a 225, but your post talked about them having the same scores. hmmmmm......I would argue that the person coming from the historically black med school (Morehouse) would be in a bit worse shape than the others mainly because I don't think that the black med schools in general are known for having good clinical rotations. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong. This is just what I've been tol. Also, you can't say that they have the same LORS because different institutions are known for different areas of expertise and have different faculty working there that are well known in that particular area. For example, a letter of recommendation from Dr. Andrews for ortho would go much further than anyone else you could get anywhere in the country. So if you take out the LOR factor, then I would say that Drexel, UVA, VCU, and MCW are equal and Morehouse is behind if a student is coming from them with all other standardized exam scores being equal.
 
A more prestigious school may help you land a more prestigious residency.

But how much does the prestige of your residency actually matter if you get into the specialty you want to be in at a location you want to be at? This can be accomplished by working hard at any US medical school.

Let's say you want to be a neurologist in the state of Oregon. Does it really matter if you do your residency at OHSU or some smaller hospital in Oregon that doesn't have national recognition. In the end you still become a neurologist living in the state of Oregon.

Why does prestige matter then? Perhaps it exists for the purpose of ego stroking as there doesn't seem to be any tangible benefit. I guess prestige plays a bigger role if you want to do academic medicine. Academic medicine is all about the ego stroking.
 
MS1 here. That's a tough one.....I'll try to give a good answer without the typical SDN "let's tear apart this person's post" response. It's really hard to nail down med school prestige in the same way that you would discern undergrad prestige. Your step scores and shelf exams are standardized so a person coming out of VCU with a 250 is better off than someone coming from UVA with a 225, but your post talked about them having the same scores. hmmmmm......I would argue that the person coming from the historically black med school (Morehouse) would be in a bit worse shape than the others mainly because I don't think that the black med schools in general are known for having good clinical rotations. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong. This is just what I've been tol. Also, you can't say that they have the same LORS because different institutions are known for different areas of expertise and have different faculty working there that are well known in that particular area. For example, a letter of recommendation from Dr. Andrews for ortho would go much further than anyone else you could get anywhere in the country. So if you take out the LOR factor, then I would say that Drexel, UVA, VCU, and MCW are equal and Morehouse is behind if a student is coming from them with all other standardized exam scores being equal.

Thankyou that was a very detailed and wonderful response!
 
A more prestigious school may help you land a more prestigious residency.

But how much does the prestige of your residency actually matter if you get into the specialty you want to be in at a location you want to be at? This can be accomplished by working hard at any US medical school.

Let's say you want to be a neurologist in the state of Oregon. Does it really matter if you do your residency at OHSU or some smaller hospital in Oregon that doesn't have national recognition. In the end you still become a neurologist living in the state of Oregon.

Why does prestige matter then? Perhaps it exists for the purpose of ego stroking when there doesn't seem to be any tangible benefit. I guess prestige plays a bigger role if you want to do academic medicine. Academic medicine is all about the ego-stroking.

Well let me explain to you why I asked, I have tons of family members and friends that look at the Physicians medical school and residency before they visit the Physician. For example my mother wanted to see a Psychiatrist and she picked the Psychiatrist who did his residency from Duke over the one from UMD. I know that names and prestige is all bull **** but unfortunately a lot of patients do care. At a lot of the clinics where I volunteered especially the ones in nice suburban areas the people asked about the Physicians credentials and school. Where as in indigenous populations such as Richmond, VA people really did not care.
 
A more prestigious school may help you land a more prestigious residency.

But how much does the prestige of your residency actually matter if you get into the specialty you want to be in at a location you want to be at? This can be accomplished by working hard at any US medical school.

Let's say you want to be a neurologist in the state of Oregon. Does it really matter if you do your residency at OHSU or some smaller hospital in Oregon that doesn't have national recognition. In the end you still become a neurologist living in the state of Oregon.

Why does prestige matter then? Perhaps it exists for the purpose of ego stroking as there doesn't seem to be any tangible benefit. I guess prestige plays a bigger role if you want to do academic medicine. Academic medicine is all about the ego stroking.

Prestige of residency matters a ton if you want to do a fellowship afterwards. Especially a competitive fellowship. For example, if you want to eventually do gyn/onc, there's almost no way that you're going to land a fellowship position coming out of an average ob/gyn residency program. That's just the way it work.
 
MS1 here. That's a tough one.....I'll try to give a good answer without the typical SDN "let's tear apart this person's post" response. It's really hard to nail down med school prestige in the same way that you would discern undergrad prestige. Your step scores and shelf exams are standardized so a person coming out of VCU with a 250 is better off than someone coming from UVA with a 225, but your post talked about them having the same scores. hmmmmm......I would argue that the person coming from the historically black med school (Morehouse) would be in a bit worse shape than the others mainly because I don't think that the black med schools in general are known for having good clinical rotations. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong. This is just what I've been tol. Also, you can't say that they have the same LORS because different institutions are known for different areas of expertise and have different faculty working there that are well known in that particular area. For example, a letter of recommendation from Dr. Andrews for ortho would go much further than anyone else you could get anywhere in the country. So if you take out the LOR factor, then I would say that Drexel, UVA, VCU, and MCW are equal and Morehouse is behind if a student is coming from them with all other standardized exam scores being equal.

Morehouse has it's clinical rotations in Grady Hospital which is the same exact hospital where Emory students/residents do their clinical rotations/residencies hand in hand with Morehouse students/residents.

http://www.emory.edu/grady/emory-at-grady/facts.html

I don't know about you but Grady seems to be a pretty decent place for clinicals.
 
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Well let me explain to you why I asked, I have tons of family members and friends that look at the Physicians medical school and residency before they visit the Physician. For example my mother wanted to see a Psychiatrist and she picked the Psychiatrist who did his residency from Duke over the one from UMD. I know that names and prestige is all bull **** but unfortunately a lot of patients do care. At a lot of the clinics where I volunteered especially the ones in nice suburban areas the people asked about the Physicians credentials and school. Where as in indigenous populations such as Richmond, VA people really did not care.

Does anybody else find this a little ironic?
 
Does anybody else find this a little ironic?

Maybe they should have thrown bottles at her head instead of carlos boozer's mom.
The general caliber of a doctor is to some degree predictable by their pedigree.

UVA >> Wisc = MCV>> drexel>>>>>>>>>>> morehouse
 
Morehouse has it's clinical rotations in Grady Hospital which is the same exact hospital where Emory students/residents do their clinical rotations/residencies hand in hand with Morehouse students/residents.

http://www.emory.edu/grady/emory-at-grady/facts.html

I don't know about you but Grady seems to be a pretty decent place for clinicals.

My mistake. But the fact of the matter is that the historically black medical schools just flat out don't have as good a reputation as the other med schools in this country.
 
maybe they should have thrown bottles at her head instead of carlos boozer's mom.
The general caliber of a doctor is to some degree predictable by their pedigree.

Uva >> wisc = mcv>> drexel>>>>>>>>>>> morehouse

+1
 
My mistake. But the fact of the matter is that the historically black medical schools just flat out don't have as good a reputation as the other med schools in this country.

Is that really how folks in Alabama think? The Civil War has been over for a long time.
 
Is that really how folks in Alabama think? The Civil War has been over for a long time.

How mature of you. UAB has a solid program and I'm doing well grade-wise so thankfully that will determine what residency program I get into and not the fact that I'm in the state of Alabama. Come on now, doc, goodness gracious, be civil. But back to the topic at hand. Where are all of the historically black colleges in the undergrad US news and world report rankings? Where are there med schools in the research rankings (aka the rankings that most med students follow)? Morehouse for example is unranked in both for the wrong reasons. What I'm saying isn't wrong information and doesn't have anything to do with race. The historically black med schools and colleges, for one reason or another, are just not ranked well in the academic polls and reports.
 
How mature of you. UAB has a solid program and I'm doing well grade-wise so thankfully that will determine what residency program I get into and not the fact that I'm in the state of Alabama. Come on now, doc, goodness gracious, be civil. But back to the topic at hand. Where are all of the historically black colleges in the undergrad US news and world report rankings? Where are there med schools in the research rankings (aka the rankings that most med students follow)? Morehouse for example is unranked in both for the wrong reasons. What I'm saying isn't wrong information and doesn't have anything to do with race. The historically black med schools and colleges, for one reason or another, are just not ranked well in the academic polls and reports.

You take US News and World Report too seriously in my humble opinion.
 
You take US News and World Report too seriously in my humble opinion.

You have to go off of some sort of ranking. You don't just apply to programs randomly. There is a reason why those rankings exist and a method to their madness. Personally, I'm proud that I went to a top-15 undergrad and that I'm going to a good medical school. And now here I am, having done well in college and doing well in medical school with hopefully the chance to do my residency anywhere in the country from Mass Gen to UCSF and back as long as I maintain my spot around the top of the class. Rankings matter to some extent and it's foolish to think otherwise.
 
I just wanted to know in the eyes of medical students which student would land the most competitive/best residency assuming same stats, LORS, board scores and everything BUT from different schools. In an essence, I'm asking which school is the most prestigious between UVA, Medical College of Wisconsin, VCU, Drexel and Morehouse?

Right now I think it's UVA> MCW> Drexel > VCU > Morehouse. Please correct me if I'm wrong!

I would say:

US News top 10 or so >>> UVA = MCW = Drexel = VCU

Do you honestly believe you will land a better residency by going to any of these schools over another? Assuming same application, it makes little difference.

Who would get the residency spot? The applicant with the better personality and character qualities.

None of those schools offer a significant advantage in prestige. Prestige matters in the top 10, after that it gets murky.
 
You have to go off of some sort of ranking. You don't just apply to programs randomly. There is a reason why those rankings exist and a method to their madness. Personally, I'm proud that I went to a top-15 undergrad and that I'm going to a good medical school. And now here I am, having done well in college and doing well in medical school with hopefully the chance to do my residency anywhere in the country from Mass Gen to UCSF and back as long as I maintain my spot around the top of the class. Rankings matter to some extent and it's foolish to think otherwise.

I am glad that you are doing well. I just happen to believe that the graduates of the historically black medical schools are well trained and that their top students have an opportunity to match into very competitive specialties. Step One scores, performance on the clinical rotations during third year, research, letters of recommendation, and your ability to interview well are the main factors that influence the residency match. If you excel at any accredited US medical school, you will have plenty of opportunities in your medical career.
 
I am glad that you are doing well. I just happen to believe that the graduates of the historically black medical schools are well trained and that their top students have an opportunity to match into very competitive specialties. Step One scores, performance on the clinical rotations during third year, research, letters of recommendation, and your ability to interview well are the main factors that influence the residency match. If you excel at any accredited US medical school, you will have plenty of opportunities in your medical career.

Prestige only matters if you are going to use it as leverage to get into a top residency. If you are interested in primary care, what would be the point in paying much more in tuition for a top-ranked school when you can just go to your state school and have an equal shot at a residency position? For most people, they will be happy at most places and so prestige should not really be a factor.
 
How mature of you. UAB has a solid program and I'm doing well grade-wise so thankfully that will determine what residency program I get into and not the fact that I'm in the state of Alabama. Come on now, doc, goodness gracious, be civil. But back to the topic at hand. Where are all of the historically black colleges in the undergrad US news and world report rankings? Where are there med schools in the research rankings (aka the rankings that most med students follow)? Morehouse for example is unranked in both for the wrong reasons. What I'm saying isn't wrong information and doesn't have anything to do with race. The historically black med schools and colleges, for one reason or another, are just not ranked well in the academic polls and reports.

Morehouse is ranked #16 in Primary care in the US news.
 
Morehouse is ranked #16 in Primary care in the US news.

Haha I forgot about primary care completely! But I was talking about both Undergrad and Med school rankings. I'm not looking to do a primary care specialty so it slipped my mind!
😳
 
Interesting fact...the current US Surgeon General graduated from morehouse. It can't be that bad of a school.
 
Interesting fact...the current US Surgeon General graduated from morehouse. It can't be that bad of a school.

"Former US Surgeon General, Dr. David Satcher assumed the role of interim president in addition to being the director of the National Center for Primary Care which is located at the Morehouse School of Medicine. Later he was honored as a full president."
The school is actually pretty decent. Based on my interview they told me last year they had a 100 % step passing rate and step average in the low 220s. A lot of people hate on Morehouse because it's a "historically black school" and think that the quality of education/ clinicals is low etc.... yet they forget that Emory students have the same exact clinic rotations as Morehouse students in Grady Hospital. Now I'm obviously not comparing Emory students to Morehouse students but just saying doubting the quality of education/clinical experience of a US Surgeon General or Grady students is a very BOLD STATEMENT.
 
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Haha I forgot about primary care completely! But I was talking about both Undergrad and Med school rankings. I'm not looking to do a primary care specialty so it slipped my mind!
😳

Morehouse gets more Research funds from NIH than Loyola, George Washington, Michigan State, Albany, NYMC, Creighton, EVMS, University of South Alabama etc....People tend to talk about Research being the ranking mechanism yet they fail to look up that information 😉


http://www.brimr.org/NIH_Awards/2010/SchoolOfMedicine_2010.xls
 
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I would say:

US News top 10 or so >>> UVA = MCW = Drexel = VCU

Do you honestly believe you will land a better residency by going to any of these schools over another? Assuming same application, it makes little difference.

Who would get the residency spot? The applicant with the better personality and character qualities.

None of those schools offer a significant advantage in prestige. Prestige matters in the top 10, after that it gets murky.

It does matter. I graduated from a state school thats atleast top 30-40 and got 18 residency interview invites out of 20 applications because better regarded schools have more well known doctors with more relationships and professional and personal connections with each other and they trust each others opinion about a candidate. These are very important factors in securing competitive residency spots.
 
It does matter. I graduated from a state school thats atleast top 30-40 and got 18 residency interview invites out of 20 applications because better regarded schools have more well known doctors with more relationships and professional and personal connections with each other and they trust each others opinion about a candidate. These are very important factors in securing competitive residency spots.

He said similar LORs, board scores and grades. Similar LORs would take into account professional relationships of the letter writers, as that is obviously a huge component of each LOR. Furthermore, it's far from true to think that #20 school has faculty with better relationships than rank #40 in every specialty. Your n = 1 doesn't validate your point.
 
It does matter. I graduated from a state school thats atleast top 30-40 and got 18 residency interview invites out of 20 applications because better regarded schools have more well known doctors with more relationships and professional and personal connections with each other and they trust each others opinion about a candidate. These are very important factors in securing competitive residency spots.

Thank you. I was trying to explain this, but got tagged as something awful in the process. I'm not saying that you absolutely CAN'T get into an elite residency program coming out of a historically black med school/DO School/Caribbean med school/lower ranked school/etc, but that it will be a significantly more difficult process for you. Christ, this isn't a difficult concept to understand. So the former US Surgeon General went to Morehouse? I didn't know that and that's great but it's not the norm, guys. Come on. One of our family friends is a gyn/onc that makes $800,000 a year. Is that the norm? Is that the trend? Do ALL gyn/oncs see anything even close to that? No. Of course not. I understand that everyone wants to be politically correct but we are all reasonably smart doctors and med students here so let's be serious.
 
Interesting fact...the current US Surgeon General graduated from morehouse. It can't be that bad of a school.

Regina Benjamin was appointed as much for her political views and she writes and speaks out against obesity though she herself is overweight which questions her credibility.
 
For as many times as this debate is brought up, I'm surprised there isn't a standard response to the topic. The question is moot, as the premise is meaningless. "If the same applicant was applying from school X, Y, or Z, which would be more likely to get in?" In the real world, this doesn't happen. Applicants are all different, so this scenario would never occur. That fact can't simply be dismissed for the purposes of discussion, because program directors care significantly more about individual qualities than they care about the name of the school.

This question is often just a thinly veiled way of asking, "which of these schools is better, because I'm basing my decision on which school to go to based on which is 'better?'" Whatever "better" means. Picking a school should be done based upon where an applicant feels the most comfortable, and where they're most likely to succeed and thrive. Those factors have a huge impact on grades and professional relationships, and those are the things that really matter. (I know the OP is a current medical student, and this paragraph wasn't directed at him/her, just stating it for other people who might find the thread.)

Does the name of the school matter? A bit. I don't think anybody would say that a student coming from a Carribbean school vs. someone from Harvard would be considered on equal footing, all other things being equal. But that's an extreme example, and the importance of school reputation is nowhere near as great as things like clinical grades, Step 1 and 2 scores, elective grades, and so forth.

And I'll back that up with evidence:
http://www.siumed.edu/dme/academy/jc_articles/Distlehorst_0509.pdf

You'll note that reputation doesn't appear on the list until number 9. This study was much discussed when published, and is the result of a survey of 1,201 program directors. Some interesting points in the discussion relate the very high value placed across the board on indicators of "excellence in clinical performance." Which refers to things like LORs, clinical grades, and audition electives.

The name of a school matters a lot less than people tend to think, and is a horrible reason to choose one school over another. Individual views on "reputation" are dependent upon what factors one person considers to be desirable, and thus reputation is an entirely subjective topic. Heck, we could have a debate on the US News criteria and whether or not they're a valid metric.

Also, comparing entire schools to each other isn't a reasonable comparison. Individual programs/departments are likely to be stronger or weaker than other programs in the same school. One particular school might have a fantastic neurology department but be lacking in cardiology, whereas the inverse could be true somewhere else. So which of those school is "better" when it comes to residency? Ask different people and you'll surely get different answers. One can't consider differences between schools without considering strengths of different programs as they relate to a specific situation.

There are so many variables involved in this process, and so many of those variables are so much more important than the name of the school. And even though I just wrote way too much on why school name doesn't really matter, I would tend to agree with JackShephard MD when he said, "US News top 10 or so >>> UVA = MCW = Drexel = VCU." While going to a top tier school might give ever so slight an edge when it comes to the school reputation component of an applicant, I would tend to think that even that portion of the application is either "top ten or everything else." And little weight beyond that is given. I would be very surprised if program directors saw any difference between the listed schools.
 
For as many times as this debate is brought up, I'm surprised there isn't a standard response to the topic. The question is moot, as the premise is meaningless. "If the same applicant was applying from school X, Y, or Z, which would be more likely to get in?" In the real world, this doesn't happen. Applicants are all different, so this scenario would never occur. That fact can't simply be dismissed for the purposes of discussion, because program directors care significantly more about individual qualities than they care about the name of the school.

This question is often just a thinly veiled way of asking, "which of these schools is better, because I'm basing my decision on which school to go to based on which is 'better?'" Whatever "better" means. Picking a school should be done based upon where an applicant feels the most comfortable, and where they're most likely to succeed and thrive. Those factors have a huge impact on grades and professional relationships, and those are the things that really matter. (I know the OP is a current medical student, and this paragraph wasn't directed at him/her, just stating it for other people who might find the thread.)

Does the name of the school matter? A bit. I don't think anybody would say that a student coming from a Carribbean school vs. someone from Harvard would be considered on equal footing, all other things being equal. But that's an extreme example, and the importance of school reputation is nowhere near as great as things like clinical grades, Step 1 and 2 scores, elective grades, and so forth.

And I'll back that up with evidence:
http://www.siumed.edu/dme/academy/jc_articles/Distlehorst_0509.pdf

You'll note that reputation doesn't appear on the list until number 9. This study was much discussed when published, and is the result of a survey of 1,201 program directors. Some interesting points in the discussion relate the very high value placed across the board on indicators of "excellence in clinical performance." Which refers to things like LORs, clinical grades, and audition electives.

The name of a school matters a lot less than people tend to think, and is a horrible reason to choose one school over another. Individual views on "reputation" are dependent upon what factors one person considers to be desirable, and thus reputation is an entirely subjective topic. Heck, we could have a debate on the US News criteria and whether or not they're a valid metric.

Also, comparing entire schools to each other isn't a reasonable comparison. Individual programs/departments are likely to be stronger or weaker than other programs in the same school. One particular school might have a fantastic neurology department but be lacking in cardiology, whereas the inverse could be true somewhere else. So which of those school is "better" when it comes to residency? Ask different people and you'll surely get different answers. One can't consider differences between schools without considering strengths of different programs as they relate to a specific situation.

There are so many variables involved in this process, and so many of those variables are so much more important than the name of the school. And even though I just wrote way too much on why school name doesn't really matter, I would tend to agree with JackShephard MD when he said, "US News top 10 or so >>> UVA = MCW = Drexel = VCU." While going to a top tier school might give ever so slight an edge when it comes to the school reputation component of an applicant, I would tend to think that even that portion of the application is either "top ten or everything else." And little weight beyond that is given. I would be very surprised if program directors saw any difference between the listed schools.

Excellent post and agreed.

Perhaps of interest::::

There is a published spectrum on US News specifically outlining "Residency director's assessment" (maximum being 5 points) for each school.

Looking at the schools under the scope of Residency director's assessment, the schools go UVA(4.0)>MCW>VCU>Drexel>Morehouse(2.1)

The difference between the middle three could be argued as negligible (i.e. about ~0.2 difference between each). However, I would not say that the difference between a 2 and a 4 [on a 5-point scale] is negligible.

This validates what we were saying. I don't think discussing Moorehouse is productive.
 
I just wanted to know in the eyes of medical students which student would land the most competitive/best residency assuming same stats, LORS, board scores and everything BUT from different schools. In an essence, I'm asking which school is the most prestigious between UVA, Medical College of Wisconsin, VCU, Drexel and Morehouse?

Right now I think it's UVA> MCW> Drexel > VCU > Morehouse. Please correct me if I'm wrong!

Here is my guide to answer your question:

Step 1) The school you get admitted to is the best one.
Step 2) If multiple admissions, the one you would be happiest at (or some variant, such as educational quality) is the best school.
Step 3) If Step 2 is equivocal, the cheaper one is better.

If you are asking for any other reason, think seriously about what you are trying to ask.
 
UVA has the strongest reputation of those schools. Does it matter? Well that depends a lot on what you're going into and where you are intending to apply. For heavily academic programs in competitive specialties, it may matter esp if you're trying to leave your region; regional bias is pretty significant in certain specialties.
 
the truth is most patients don't care about published rankings
the patient has an internal ranking based on what they have heard or read about

for example, i go to a low tier med school. when you ask the people local to the med school, they will speak highly of the school because the med center is the best in the area and there are a lot of positive articles in the news.

however, if you asked someone from an ivy league school, they would laugh at my school.
 
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